Here’s what sets this mess apart from previous CG mistakes: it hurts everyone, yes, but also directly targets the top 1% of their player base. The people most hurt by this are those who were finishing 1-3 in HST. Do these people deserve your sympathy? Certainly not. But you’d better believe that if CG ticks them off this much, it’s going to hurt the game.
Rank 50 should NEVER get better rewards than rank 1 (unless their scores are somehow similar, like full clears in rancor). That’s pretty basic stuff, but I’ve seen screenshots of 36 salvage at rank 1 and 36 salvage PLUS 2 full pieces at rank 50. That’s someone who did 15 million damage, vs someone who posted a zero. It tells us that the most basic common sense tenets of rewards structuring were not considered.
What complicates this mess is that in rancor, many people can post full clears. The same will be true of tank soon enough. So there actually SHOULD be some flattening there since those people put in the same effort. Of course I’m talking about properly implemented flattening, not the “destroy everyone’s rewards” kind of flattening we just saw.
I am top 3 sith Heroic, and I can insure you I spent a lot of ressources to get there.
I was getting excellent prizes which actually rewarded my efforts.
Until CG figure this out, obviously the money flow is suspended, and according to their answer I will consider my participation in this game.
I'm not obliged to repeatedly being lied to and deceived by their highly suspicious actions.
We’ve lost another member. A charter member of our guild, who had over 3.1 gp that we now have to replace, let alone, a fantastic guy, which that, is irreplaceable.
I’ve been quiet for much of the discussion, because I have have nothing nice to say. And, beating a dead horse is pointless because you all will do what you want anyway, based on a misplaced perception of “what you think is best for the long term health of the game”.
Well I have news for you: when you lose Long time players who have spent on this game (that you continually choose to destroy in bits and pieces), THAT is not good for the long term health of the game.
We have other high end members as well who have absolutely lost the desire to put for any effort. Figure out a squad comp that works? Nerf it. Raid rewards worth playing for? Nerf it. Figure out ANOTHER comp that works? nerf that too.
All this right before we are attempting a heroic run for the first time. This is hands down the worst representation of game development I have ever witnessed.
By going back to the old rewards structure your hurting the people doing the work in the raids.... We grind out the P1' and P4's with our best teams so slackers can just wait till P2 and P3 to put up the big scores...We do the work they reap the rewards... Just give everyone the same thing or keep it flattened where everyone gets close to the same and maybe a little more for the top 3...
Assumptions: That in the new system all full pieces in the loot table have an equal chance of dropping, at both the 100% promised drop rate and the current and further down the line future.
Clarifications: G12 GET piece cost = 5,600 GET. When rancor piece is talked about, I am using an mk3 carb as the baseline piece.
Under the promised 100% drop rate in the new system:
[] All ranks 15 or greater take a loss when pieces are converted to their GET and Guild Currency equivalent (cost to purchase from the store).
[] Ranks 16-30 are basically a wash on guild currency while taking about 1/3 of a g12 piece's value loss
[] Rank 31-40 are gaining 1/2 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/3 of a g12 piece
[] Rank 41-50 are gaining about 3/4 of a rancor piece from the guild store and losing about 1/8 of a g12 piece
[] Total
loss for the guild: GET = 106,939; Guild Currency = 726
[] Average loss per member: GET = 2,138; Guild Currency = 14
Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
Imgur
100% drop rates in new system
Imgur
40% drop rates in new system
Under the current and future planned 40% full piece drop rate:
[] All ranks taking a loss in GET and Guild Currency
[] Rank 1-3 are losing over a full piece of g12 gear (about 1.25 piece loss) and a little over 4 rancor pieces
[] Rank 3-10 are losing about 3/4 of a g12 piece and a little over 1.5 rancor pieces
[] Rank 11-20 are losing about half of a g12 piece and almost a full rancor piece
[] Rank 31-40 are losing about half of a g12 piece and about 1/3 of a rancor piece
[] Rank 41-50 are losing about 1/4 of a g12 piece and taking a small loss on guild currency equivalents
[] Total
loss for the guild: GET = 148939; Guild Currency = 129,526
[] Average loss per member: GET = 2,978; Guild Currency = 2,590
This certainly does not reflect how I interpret when @CG_Carrie said in an April 2 post that "Given the difficult of the raid, we will be increasing the rewards a bit" nor does it match "To our Heroic raiders: please take some time over the next couple of weeks and take a look at the aggregate GP lift among your guildmates... and the rate of growth in ALL players' ability to complete the raid, over the coming weeks". This represents a total loss for the guild in both scenarios, and the only gain can be seen in the 100% drop rate scenario for members that get rank 31+ (and even then only in guild currency since they are still losing GET equivalence).
Now, we are getting g12.5 gear added and that loot will be added to the loot tables. The only way that gear being added makes up for the current losses in GET under the 40% full drop rate scenario (since they have been said to come at the same time in May) is if we a) get between 35 and 40 pieces of salvage AND b) it has the same GET cost as the current g12 gear. In my opinion, both of those are very unlikely.
@CG_Carrie@CG_SaIera@CG_TopHat and any other CG employee that this is pertinent to, if you have any data that shows my tables above are incorrect please provide. Also, if you don't want to provide hard data, you can provide drop rates under the new loot system and old loot system and I will happily calculate the expected value of gains or losses for guilds and members.
Getting into my personal opinion of the changes, I can understand if CG thinks the original boxes dropped too much loot. I can swallow that from a business perspective. What I can't quite comprehend are statements that this is better for our guilds in the long term, when it obviously isn't.
I welcome any dev comments that challenges the validity of this analysis.
This is a very nice bit of analysis by Maegor. Also, the invitation to the CG's to provide further data (or drop rates) could not have been better delivered. @CG_Carrie , if you have an interest in showing "side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after", you clearly have a willing collaborator to take some load off. I can appreciate the weighing of priorities, though, and if your team is unable to compile the requested information (though not having drop rates would be somewhat surprising since you had to, you know, know what you were changing) I suggest the community continue to post all the before and afters we have and do what we can to continue to generate the data.
If the worry is that end game payers, oops players, are going to leap a head to fast with the way the old payout structure was let’s think about that for a sec.
So 2 raids a week is/ was 1-2 fullG12.
So that’s a minimum of 8 g12 a month.
Plus let’s add the potential G12 from LS/DSTB=2
So now we are at 10 min a month.
For end game players like myself I have 41 G12 toons at this moment.
With you stating that you are going to open up the other side for G12 gear soon I would feel safe to say your old payout model was correct and not about to break your game.
What is breaking it’s is this nerf nerf nerf that is kittening off your paying base. Oops I mean playing base.
(Would have posted on the prior megathread, but it was closed)
From Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18
"However, many of the posted screenshots represent an incomplete picture of what the rewards will look like over the long run. Because there is a degree of chance involved, it is possible to see extreme swings in the before and after, despite that not being indicative of the average result."
If the observed reduction in rewards was a problem of extreme, unlikely (but possible) results, one would expect to find community members who are pushing back against the "nerf" data (either with data or with scorching posts...I know, one would never see those here). Given the sparsity of those, it's hard to swallow the "bad luck" argument (especially without offering support data). Let's not hedge. Just be honest with us. We were told rewards would be increased, they were decreased.
Can’t u guys just give free gear now as conpensation ?? For the horrible rewards and the promises that never came to pass ... thks for ***** everyone off
Well we are now up to 14 people in our guild who are amazing at TW TB Haat etc.... that refuse to plat STR..... not good, you guys tracking data must be seeing this trend
Rewards across the entire top 20-25-30 need to be restored to something worth playing for. Especially with the ongoing and unaddressed P4 damage bugs causing players to get dumped from top 3 into top 15.
Also, while we wait with anticipation for the mid-week rollback that could have been done in under 24 hours if it was something that impacted EA's income, we realize that it's likely not a full rollback. The only reason it should take that long is if you're going to "modify" the terms of the rollback. Full rollback is simply rolling back to a version of the (likely git) repository for all of the rewards code changes.
While I appreciate the late Friday stop-gap measure, I also have quite a bit of skepticism.
In the immortal words of the unnamed Zen Master.. "We'll see".
Okay my guild finally finished their IV ... by that I mean about 4 or 5 of us finished it. 36 total actually looked at it. And the rewards for the week and a half of 5 of my best well thought out teams and effort is garbage. We started another because of course we have tickets but getting anyone to attack phase 1 or 3 is... Not happening.
I know it is meant to be challenging but it’s not fun or even rewarding. Why should the 4or 5 put in more time for others to still get the insulting rewards?
Oh yeah it won’t ever get finished. For those of you wonder where the other tiers are for rewards... most give up. The few that do/can persist... but this was Order66.... and the players who can/do are dropping like the Jedi...
Okay my guild finally finished their IV ... by that I mean about 4 or 5 of us finished it. 36 total actually looked at it. And the rewards for the week and a half of 5 of my best well thought out teams and effort is garbage. We started another because of course we have tickets but getting anyone to attack phase 1 or 3 is... Not happening.
I know it is meant to be challenging but it’s not fun or even rewarding. Why should the 4or 5 put in more time for others to still get the insulting rewards?
Oh yeah it won’t ever get finished. For those of you wonder where the other tiers are for rewards... most give up. The few that do/can persist... but this was Order66.... and the players who can/do are dropping like the Jedi...
Good luck out there.
To be fair, the rewards for T4 have never been very exciting. We have recently finished T5 and the general consensus in our guild is that the rewards for that tier are at a similar level as before, maybe slightly more useful now without the challenge gear. And at least T4 now drops GET, there is never enough of those.
Despite several attempts by players to explain to you what we want you still aren't listening or keep deciding you know what is better for the game than the players do.
so now we have, after 5 days full work, completed a Tier V Sith Raid and until now all the screens from our member analysed...
in every box of our guild was exactly 5 salvage of a g12 gear! i guess i must not mention extra that under the lucky ones who dropped a full gear that all of these were non g12 gear...
i repeat it again: 5 salvage of a g12 gear, that´s all... do you know what that means? mr. and mrs. live and senior producer? we would need 14 sithraids!! and 70 days to build one fully g12 gear...
okay okay, everyone in the forum and also mr. and mrs. live and senior producer will now say: blablabla you forgot the new and more ge-token blablabla
even if we count that super duper upgrade of ge-token in, and even all of our members would get 1st place and cash the 630 ge-token, and we all would spend the 630 ge-token on gear (instead of hyoda and wampa) we would need 6 sithraids and 30 days (1 month by the way) to build one fully g12 gear
please explain mr. and mrs. live and senior producer how on earth should we be able to get only to Tier VI in about half a year, with that miserable reward from your sithraid? and where are your announced "Special attention has been paid to increasing the rewards to better fit the difficulty of the Sith Raid Tiers 5 & 6 for the population of guilds currently running those Tiers, and to rewarding guilds for "moving up" to, and performing well in, those challenging Tiers." we aren´t able to see your special attention, please enlighten us
so now we have, after 5 days full work, completed a Tier V Sith Raid and until now all the screens from our member analysed...
in every box of our guild was exactly 5 salvage of a g12 gear! i guess i must not mention extra that under the lucky ones who dropped a full gear that all of these were non g12 gear...
i repeat it again: 5 salvage of a g12 gear, that´s all... do you know what that means? mr. and mrs. live and senior producer? we would need 14 sithraids!! and 70 days to build one fully g12 gear...
okay okay, everyone in the forum and also mr. and mrs. live and senior producer will now say: blablabla you forgot the new and more ge-token blablabla
even if we count that super duper upgrade of ge-token in, and even all of our members would get 1st place and cash the 630 ge-token, and we all would spend the 630 ge-token on gear (instead of hyoda and wampa) we would need 6 sithraids and 30 days (1 month by the way) to build one fully g12 gear
please explain mr. and mrs. live and senior producer how on earth should we be able to get only to Tier VI in about half a year, with that miserable reward from your sithraid? and where are your announced "Special attention has been paid to increasing the rewards to better fit the difficulty of the Sith Raid Tiers 5 & 6 for the population of guilds currently running those Tiers, and to rewarding guilds for "moving up" to, and performing well in, those challenging Tiers.
Okay, I think I can do this. Someone (anyone really) feel free to check my math - I'm horrible at the math.
So, to do well in Heroic, your "average" guildy will need, let's say, 4 teams with g12. Of course, the requisite JTRey team for phase 1. Troopers + Thrawn for 2. A CLS/Raid Han + attackers for T3 and at least one other strong team (NS, Empire, etc. to hit Phase 4. And then of course, some decent synergy zerg teams. So 4 teams of 5. That's 20. But typically, one g12 piece isn't really enough - most need at least 2 - one for survivability (armor plate, life steal multi tool or super medpac, etc.) and the other to do enough damage (bayonet, wristband, etc). Some need 3 - but we'll call it 2 to be conservative.
So let's see.....4 teams... 5 members each @ 2 pieces... = 40 g12. So you'll be all set for heroic Sith raids in 3 and a half years! Congrats!
See you on the Sith heroic holotable....in 2021. If you can push a few months ahead of schedule, probably August of 2021!
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Our guild finished heroic sith yesterday for the first time. Guild leadership had a whale of a time getting people to participate in p2 and p3. Members were spending 2.5hrs trying to post minimum scores. We finished the raid with 2 minutes left. Everyone was worn out.
My Rewards (all salvage)
8 mk V stun guns
8 mk VIII Nubian design tech (g12 purple)
10 mk X blastech weapon mod (blue)
10 mk IV bacta gels
I was 2nd and contributed a full g12 RJT team, NS team, 2 p2 teams, and Chex mix team.
RNG should not be allowed to make rewards this bad for that level of contribution. I’m glad they are fixing things, but I will be honest. I’m skeptical that it will make amends. Only 320 Traya shards to go. In order to be as objective as I can be, several guild mates did receive a fully crafted g12 piece. I’m happy for them, they worked hard for it.
For top 3 pre-nerf I got 324 pieces of salvage, post nerf 36. That a 88% reduction not even including the fact that almost all the gear is worthless and can be farmed in less than a day. Oh but the currency, wow look at a whole 10 salvage pieces of gear 12 that's amazing. I spent money to get ready for heroic because the rewards seemed to be worth it.
Now they are practically worthless, can't believe your even attempting to try and compare the pre and post nerf rewards and calling them a improvement. I'm guessing you didn't share a comparison since it was a outright lie! Even with you putting the drop rate back for a whole week mind you the rewards still won't be what I paid for. I've seen more people quit this week than the whole time I've been playing, which is well over 2 years. Put it back like it was or I'm guessing the trend will continue.
After putting much thought into it, I believe the problem roots from the objective the Sith raid was initially: CG wanted to congratulate themselves for having built content which couldn't be beaten. The community beat it, now the whole community has to suffer for this. As many have said: the punishment translates into illogical mechanics (tenacity and speed), nerfed teams everywhere, nerfed rewards, and more nerfs incoming. It almost feels like Christmas, where CG is the Grinch.
We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget.
@CG_Carrie none of that matters if a bug in the last 5 minutes of the raid make the ranks random. I've dropped from a comfortable lead to #13 last raid in the last 5 minutes because people that were doing 0 dmg got 7 mil dmg posted after the fight. That needs to get fixed before ANYTHING else.
@CG_Carrie as an English player and apparently we are the guardians of Politically Correctness, I feel i should advise you of this..... instead of....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from foreign language users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
you should have said....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from Non English speaking users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
so...Ive FTFY, not trying to be arsey here but what you said doesn't sound good
Ha ha ha!! This post cannot be genuine, surely?
Are you honestly complaining about the use of the term "foreign language"??
You are aware that this is not, in any way, an incorrect term for the scenario it relates to?
"Foreign" simply means a country or language other than one's own native country or language.
Nothing politically incorrect to see here & no need for snow, either.
i am being serious and succinct, foreign can be deemed racist and not politically correct, therefore thats why i advised the change, if you have problem with that...i suggest you have a good look into your terminology, we are all brothers/sisters and that dividing line between both here,
and why should we be labelled into the foreign category? Non English speaking is the best terminology, deal with it! we are not all Trump.
@CG_Carrie as an English player and apparently we are the guardians of Politically Correctness, I feel i should advise you of this..... instead of....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from foreign language users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
you should have said....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from Non English speaking users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
so...Ive FTFY, not trying to be arsey here but what you said doesn't sound good
Ha ha ha!! This post cannot be genuine, surely?
Are you honestly complaining about the use of the term "foreign language"??
You are aware that this is not, in any way, an incorrect term for the scenario it relates to?
"Foreign" simply means a country or language other than one's own native country or language.
Nothing politically incorrect to see here & no need for snow, either.
I was being serious and succinct, 'foreign' can be deemed racist and not politically correct, therefore thats why i advised the change, and also advised Non English speaking to replace it as it sounds so much better, I hope you can take this onboard and deal with it
What’s with the Challenge gear rewards in the Heroic tank ? We have thousands . We received better rewards with the lower tier 2 sith raids. Our guild spent a long time to work our way to beat the heroic tank and you skimp on rewards. Our first heroic tank and our tank battles had better gear .
Our guild finished heroic sith yesterday for the first time. Guild leadership had a whale of a time getting people to participate in p2 and p3. Members were spending 2.5hrs trying to post minimum scores. We finished the raid with 2 minutes left. Everyone was worn out.
My Rewards (all salvage)
8 mk V stun guns
8 mk VIII Nubian design tech (g12 purple)
10 mk X blastech weapon mod (blue)
10 mk IV bacta gels
I was 2nd and contributed a full g12 RJT team, NS team, 2 p2 teams, and Chex mix team.
RNG should not be allowed to make rewards this bad for that level of contribution. I’m glad they are fixing things, but I will be honest. I’m skeptical that it will make amends. Only 320 Traya shards to go. In order to be as objective as I can be, several guild mates did receive a fully crafted g12 piece. I’m happy for them, they worked hard for it.
We’ve lost another member. A charter member of our guild, who had over 3.1 gp that we now have to replace, let alone, a fantastic guy, which that, is irreplaceable.
I’ve been quiet for much of the discussion, because I have have nothing nice to say. And, beating a dead horse is pointless because you all will do what you want anyway, based on a misplaced perception of “what you think is best for the long term health of the game”.
Well I have news for you: when you lose Long time players who have spent on this game (that you continually choose to destroy in bits and pieces), THAT is not good for the long term health of the game.
We have other high end members as well who have absolutely lost the desire to put for any effort. Figure out a squad comp that works? Nerf it. Raid rewards worth playing for? Nerf it. Figure out ANOTHER comp that works? nerf that too.
All this right before we are attempting a heroic run for the first time. This is hands down the worst representation of game development I have ever witnessed.
It occurs to me that maybe you folks at CG think, we think, in general this raid is fun. Please put out a survey or something so you can correct that perception. Once corrected please adjust this stupid raid. Why would you want something this hard that carries this much controvoursy in a GAME??? Can you please address this point in your next post?
so now we have, after 5 days full work, completed a Tier V Sith Raid and until now all the screens from our member analysed...
in every box of our guild was exactly 5 salvage of a g12 gear! i guess i must not mention extra that under the lucky ones who dropped a full gear that all of these were non g12 gear...
i repeat it again: 5 salvage of a g12 gear, that´s all... do you know what that means? mr. and mrs. live and senior producer? we would need 14 sithraids!! and 70 days to build one fully g12 gear...
okay okay, everyone in the forum and also mr. and mrs. live and senior producer will now say: blablabla you forgot the new and more ge-token blablabla
even if we count that super duper upgrade of ge-token in, and even all of our members would get 1st place and cash the 630 ge-token, and we all would spend the 630 ge-token on gear (instead of hyoda and wampa) we would need 6 sithraids and 30 days (1 month by the way) to build one fully g12 gear
please explain mr. and mrs. live and senior producer how on earth should we be able to get only to Tier VI in about half a year, with that miserable reward from your sithraid? and where are your announced "Special attention has been paid to increasing the rewards to better fit the difficulty of the Sith Raid Tiers 5 & 6 for the population of guilds currently running those Tiers, and to rewarding guilds for "moving up" to, and performing well in, those challenging Tiers." we aren´t able to see your special attention, please enlighten us
so and on top of that all... we have started after that mentionend T5 sithraid for our first time ever a T4 sithraid... we completed it in under 24 hours (only 40 member were able to participiate, two of them with a 0 because they had no time and raid was nearly over) as mentionend for T5 we needed all 50 members (with no 0) and 5 days...
let´s compare T4 and T5 rewards:
place 1: 420 ge-token (box with 19 salvage of gear) vs. 630 ge-token (box with 24 salvage of gear)
place50: 260 ge-token (box with 19 salvage of gear) vs. 390 ge-token (box with 24 salvage of gear)
in 5 days we complete 1 T5 (with batteling every day) = 630 ge-token and 24 salvage of gear for place1 or 390 ge-token and 24 salvage of gear for place50
in 5 days we complete 2 T4 (with 24hr 0dmg registration, so 3 days relaxing) = 840 ge-token and 38 salvage of gear for place1 or 520 ge-token and 38 salvage of gear for place50
the next question to mr. and mrs. live and senior producer: why on earth should we hit T5 when we get more rewards when we hit 2times T4 in the same time and even can relax 3 days?
we only started T5 because before your sithraid-reward-nerf there were no ge-token in T4, but now? why should we ran T5 any more? @CG_Carrie@CG_TopHat
Despite several attempts by players to explain to you what we want you still aren't listening or keep deciding you know what is better for the game than the players do.
This may be true. They may know better then us what is best for the long term health of the game. However... this doesn’t mean we like what they figure is best for the game... and I think that’s the problem. Well aside from them stupidly trying to sell a nerf as a buff... that usually is a good way to make the community grouchy.
I hate these new timesinks called Tb/tw. Annoying features.
Despite several attempts by players to explain to you what we want you still aren't listening or keep deciding you know what is better for the game than the players do.
This may be true. They may know better then us what is best for the long term health of the game. However... this doesn’t mean we like what they figure is best for the game... and I think that’s the problem. Well aside from them **** trying to sell a nerf as a buff... that usually is a good way to make the community grouchy.
I think they are missing that "for the long term health of the game" is speaking from a strictly numerical perspective. Looking at a spreadsheet, calculating long-term growth rates of player rosters over a year. Trying to make that number what they want.
They're not regarding a much bigger slice of the health of the game, which is how the individual player feels about his/her experience with the content. This is why they think that 10 salvage, 10 salvage, 8 salvage, 8 salvage is acceptable -- because they are gradating that uptake over a year and saying "But they get X pieces of gear from doing the raid!"
The player looks at that says "I did 5 days of work to earn a piece of a piece of a piece of something that will give me a marginal increase in power. Worse, I get more complete rewards from the older raids. I am busting my butt to pull my weight in a difficult and dull raid for my guild, and this is the compensation I get from that effort!"
I know a handful of players in my workplace, all of them hate playing this raid. They don't like the heavy handed mechanics designed to force specific outcomes, they don't like that it feels like you're not doing anything useful even when you can post good numbers, they don't like that it feels like there's no 'correct strategy' to counteract what the bosses do, and they especially don't like that after soldiering through that they get a few small piles of salvage that doesn't help them build their roster. This raid should *never* end with 10/10/8/8 being the payoff.
What needs to happen on CG's end -- the result of all this -- needs to be to get the designers' noses out of the spreadsheets and into the experience of the gameplay. To get them in to the experience of getting those rewards as a single event - to make that event gratifying.
I get that's not easy, because some guilds can wipe T6 STR in a day, and some need a week to do it. And it's hard to balance that time investment against the rewards.
And the answers we've been getting can be distilled:
"We know you don't like this, but we're going to do it anyway."
"We weren't clear enough about how this works, and you'd be fine with it if you just understood!"
"Wait and see."
"We will be back off a little, but we reserve the right to do the thing you don't like later anyway - and we still plan to do it"
So these are the "improved rewards across all tiers"?? Glad I spent 6 zetas, massive amounts of gear to get the right characters geared up as well as a lot of credits to get and level up the right mods to "help my guild" complete the heroic tier. @CG_Carrie[/img]
Replies
I am top 3 sith Heroic, and I can insure you I spent a lot of ressources to get there.
I was getting excellent prizes which actually rewarded my efforts.
Until CG figure this out, obviously the money flow is suspended, and according to their answer I will consider my participation in this game.
I'm not obliged to repeatedly being lied to and deceived by their highly suspicious actions.
We’ve lost another member. A charter member of our guild, who had over 3.1 gp that we now have to replace, let alone, a fantastic guy, which that, is irreplaceable.
I’ve been quiet for much of the discussion, because I have have nothing nice to say. And, beating a dead horse is pointless because you all will do what you want anyway, based on a misplaced perception of “what you think is best for the long term health of the game”.
Well I have news for you: when you lose Long time players who have spent on this game (that you continually choose to destroy in bits and pieces), THAT is not good for the long term health of the game.
We have other high end members as well who have absolutely lost the desire to put for any effort. Figure out a squad comp that works? Nerf it. Raid rewards worth playing for? Nerf it. Figure out ANOTHER comp that works? nerf that too.
All this right before we are attempting a heroic run for the first time. This is hands down the worst representation of game development I have ever witnessed.
Shame on all of you.
P1 and P4 is where the big scores are at.
So 2 raids a week is/ was 1-2 fullG12.
So that’s a minimum of 8 g12 a month.
Plus let’s add the potential G12 from LS/DSTB=2
So now we are at 10 min a month.
For end game players like myself I have 41 G12 toons at this moment.
With you stating that you are going to open up the other side for G12 gear soon I would feel safe to say your old payout model was correct and not about to break your game.
What is breaking it’s is this nerf nerf nerf that is kittening off your paying base. Oops I mean playing base.
From Follow up Update on Sith Raid Rewards - 4/12/18
"However, many of the posted screenshots represent an incomplete picture of what the rewards will look like over the long run. Because there is a degree of chance involved, it is possible to see extreme swings in the before and after, despite that not being indicative of the average result."
If the observed reduction in rewards was a problem of extreme, unlikely (but possible) results, one would expect to find community members who are pushing back against the "nerf" data (either with data or with scorching posts...I know, one would never see those here). Given the sparsity of those, it's hard to swallow the "bad luck" argument (especially without offering support data). Let's not hedge. Just be honest with us. We were told rewards would be increased, they were decreased.
Also, while we wait with anticipation for the mid-week rollback that could have been done in under 24 hours if it was something that impacted EA's income, we realize that it's likely not a full rollback. The only reason it should take that long is if you're going to "modify" the terms of the rollback. Full rollback is simply rolling back to a version of the (likely git) repository for all of the rewards code changes.
While I appreciate the late Friday stop-gap measure, I also have quite a bit of skepticism.
In the immortal words of the unnamed Zen Master.. "We'll see".
Dingo
I know it is meant to be challenging but it’s not fun or even rewarding. Why should the 4or 5 put in more time for others to still get the insulting rewards?
Oh yeah it won’t ever get finished. For those of you wonder where the other tiers are for rewards... most give up. The few that do/can persist... but this was Order66.... and the players who can/do are dropping like the Jedi...
Good luck out there.
To be fair, the rewards for T4 have never been very exciting. We have recently finished T5 and the general consensus in our guild is that the rewards for that tier are at a similar level as before, maybe slightly more useful now without the challenge gear. And at least T4 now drops GET, there is never enough of those.
Despite several attempts by players to explain to you what we want you still aren't listening or keep deciding you know what is better for the game than the players do.
in every box of our guild was exactly 5 salvage of a g12 gear! i guess i must not mention extra that under the lucky ones who dropped a full gear that all of these were non g12 gear...
i repeat it again: 5 salvage of a g12 gear, that´s all... do you know what that means? mr. and mrs. live and senior producer? we would need 14 sithraids!! and 70 days to build one fully g12 gear...
okay okay, everyone in the forum and also mr. and mrs. live and senior producer will now say: blablabla you forgot the new and more ge-token blablabla
even if we count that super duper upgrade of ge-token in, and even all of our members would get 1st place and cash the 630 ge-token, and we all would spend the 630 ge-token on gear (instead of hyoda and wampa) we would need 6 sithraids and 30 days (1 month by the way) to build one fully g12 gear
please explain mr. and mrs. live and senior producer how on earth should we be able to get only to Tier VI in about half a year, with that miserable reward from your sithraid? and where are your announced "Special attention has been paid to increasing the rewards to better fit the difficulty of the Sith Raid Tiers 5 & 6 for the population of guilds currently running those Tiers, and to rewarding guilds for "moving up" to, and performing well in, those challenging Tiers." we aren´t able to see your special attention, please enlighten us
So, to do well in Heroic, your "average" guildy will need, let's say, 4 teams with g12. Of course, the requisite JTRey team for phase 1. Troopers + Thrawn for 2. A CLS/Raid Han + attackers for T3 and at least one other strong team (NS, Empire, etc. to hit Phase 4. And then of course, some decent synergy zerg teams. So 4 teams of 5. That's 20. But typically, one g12 piece isn't really enough - most need at least 2 - one for survivability (armor plate, life steal multi tool or super medpac, etc.) and the other to do enough damage (bayonet, wristband, etc). Some need 3 - but we'll call it 2 to be conservative.
So let's see.....4 teams... 5 members each @ 2 pieces... = 40 g12. So you'll be all set for heroic Sith raids in 3 and a half years! Congrats!
See you on the Sith heroic holotable....in 2021. If you can push a few months ahead of schedule, probably August of 2021!
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
My Rewards (all salvage)
8 mk V stun guns
8 mk VIII Nubian design tech (g12 purple)
10 mk X blastech weapon mod (blue)
10 mk IV bacta gels
I was 2nd and contributed a full g12 RJT team, NS team, 2 p2 teams, and Chex mix team.
RNG should not be allowed to make rewards this bad for that level of contribution. I’m glad they are fixing things, but I will be honest. I’m skeptical that it will make amends. Only 320 Traya shards to go. In order to be as objective as I can be, several guild mates did receive a fully crafted g12 piece. I’m happy for them, they worked hard for it.
Now they are practically worthless, can't believe your even attempting to try and compare the pre and post nerf rewards and calling them a improvement. I'm guessing you didn't share a comparison since it was a outright lie! Even with you putting the drop rate back for a whole week mind you the rewards still won't be what I paid for. I've seen more people quit this week than the whole time I've been playing, which is well over 2 years. Put it back like it was or I'm guessing the trend will continue.
https://imgur.com/a/lkuPT
We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget.
i am being serious and succinct, foreign can be deemed racist and not politically correct, therefore thats why i advised the change, if you have problem with that...i suggest you have a good look into your terminology, we are all brothers/sisters and that dividing line between both here,
and why should we be labelled into the foreign category? Non English speaking is the best terminology, deal with it! we are not all Trump.
I was being serious and succinct, 'foreign' can be deemed racist and not politically correct, therefore thats why i advised the change, and also advised Non English speaking to replace it as it sounds so much better, I hope you can take this onboard and deal with it
Are you from GotW Unleashed?
@CG_Carrie please listen to this.
It occurs to me that maybe you folks at CG think, we think, in general this raid is fun. Please put out a survey or something so you can correct that perception. Once corrected please adjust this stupid raid. Why would you want something this hard that carries this much controvoursy in a GAME??? Can you please address this point in your next post?
so and on top of that all... we have started after that mentionend T5 sithraid for our first time ever a T4 sithraid... we completed it in under 24 hours (only 40 member were able to participiate, two of them with a 0 because they had no time and raid was nearly over) as mentionend for T5 we needed all 50 members (with no 0) and 5 days...
let´s compare T4 and T5 rewards:
place 1: 420 ge-token (box with 19 salvage of gear) vs. 630 ge-token (box with 24 salvage of gear)
place50: 260 ge-token (box with 19 salvage of gear) vs. 390 ge-token (box with 24 salvage of gear)
in 5 days we complete 1 T5 (with batteling every day) = 630 ge-token and 24 salvage of gear for place1 or 390 ge-token and 24 salvage of gear for place50
in 5 days we complete 2 T4 (with 24hr 0dmg registration, so 3 days relaxing) = 840 ge-token and 38 salvage of gear for place1 or 520 ge-token and 38 salvage of gear for place50
the next question to mr. and mrs. live and senior producer: why on earth should we hit T5 when we get more rewards when we hit 2times T4 in the same time and even can relax 3 days?
we only started T5 because before your sithraid-reward-nerf there were no ge-token in T4, but now? why should we ran T5 any more? @CG_Carrie @CG_TopHat
This may be true. They may know better then us what is best for the long term health of the game. However... this doesn’t mean we like what they figure is best for the game... and I think that’s the problem. Well aside from them stupidly trying to sell a nerf as a buff... that usually is a good way to make the community grouchy.
I think they are missing that "for the long term health of the game" is speaking from a strictly numerical perspective. Looking at a spreadsheet, calculating long-term growth rates of player rosters over a year. Trying to make that number what they want.
They're not regarding a much bigger slice of the health of the game, which is how the individual player feels about his/her experience with the content. This is why they think that 10 salvage, 10 salvage, 8 salvage, 8 salvage is acceptable -- because they are gradating that uptake over a year and saying "But they get X pieces of gear from doing the raid!"
The player looks at that says "I did 5 days of work to earn a piece of a piece of a piece of something that will give me a marginal increase in power. Worse, I get more complete rewards from the older raids. I am busting my butt to pull my weight in a difficult and dull raid for my guild, and this is the compensation I get from that effort!"
I know a handful of players in my workplace, all of them hate playing this raid. They don't like the heavy handed mechanics designed to force specific outcomes, they don't like that it feels like you're not doing anything useful even when you can post good numbers, they don't like that it feels like there's no 'correct strategy' to counteract what the bosses do, and they especially don't like that after soldiering through that they get a few small piles of salvage that doesn't help them build their roster. This raid should *never* end with 10/10/8/8 being the payoff.
What needs to happen on CG's end -- the result of all this -- needs to be to get the designers' noses out of the spreadsheets and into the experience of the gameplay. To get them in to the experience of getting those rewards as a single event - to make that event gratifying.
I get that's not easy, because some guilds can wipe T6 STR in a day, and some need a week to do it. And it's hard to balance that time investment against the rewards.
And the answers we've been getting can be distilled:
"We know you don't like this, but we're going to do it anyway."
"We weren't clear enough about how this works, and you'd be fine with it if you just understood!"
"Wait and see."
"We will be back off a little, but we reserve the right to do the thing you don't like later anyway - and we still plan to do it"