You can't use the "R" word. It's against forum guidelines.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Just remember... they stated when the last bug fix came along that they wanted us to figure out new and interesting strategies. This is what we get for doing as they asked.
As you are well aware, effective squad compositions drive player decisions including the purchase and use of crystals. Having waited months to announce the changes to the NS squad of the raid, you have allowed the player base to spend time, energy, and money on a squad that will no longer perform the way the player anticipated. This is incredibly exploitive and does great harm to the community. Please do something to offset these changes and help our squads develop. My suggestion: 2600 crystals to roll on one of the marquis character packs twice or one roll of a chromium pack and ten Traya shards. This will allow people to refocus their farming and character development as well as being compensated for the lack of clarity about what constitutes a valid strategy for this raid. If not these suggestions, please do something.
Yeah I want a show of hands of people who invested real life money into a team that was allowed to play out for months and months, then nerfed. It’s not like this new team where there’s an infinite loop, and it was addressed right away. CG literally let people play this team since the beginning and once a lot of people finally built the team they nerfed it. Not right.
@Nikoms565 would love to hear your take on this whole fiasco.
Well, to begin with, I'm okay with stopping an infinite loop versus a raid boss. I fully support the idea that raids are a team effort (even if the rewards for Heroic tier are anything but....but that's a different 1,500 post, unanswered thread for another....year, apparently).
That said, that's not all CG did. They nerfed NS functionality in the raid. Period. Anyone who runs straight NS in phase 4 knows (and so does CG) that 20 is too low.
Secondly, the portion regarding "paper zombie" is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone fully understood the synergistic possibilities as soon as they read Daka and Vent's Zeta abilities. And CG has known them since before they were even released.
So, on the one hand they "carefully monitor" things but on the other, paper zombie has been in use for months and now they're thinking about doing something? On the one hand they wanted to fix Critolyte before people made a significant investment, but waited months, until people poured crystals into shards access cantina refreshes for 7* zombie to do anything about her?
Wish they would have been that quick with the Ships 2.0 mass nerfs....oh wait, another unanswered mega thread for another time.
Noticing a trend? Yep, me too. And it dates back about a year.
There's a reason the old whales and dolphins are mainly f2p now. It's because we grow tired of the "spend money for advantage > have advantage nerfed" story - that gets old and repetitive. Quickly.
Fix the infinite loop. Fine. Nerf NS in the raid and threaten to nerf zombie too? Uncool. Again. And for the last year.
You want Heroic Sith Raid (and other tiers) to be a team effort? Make the reward structure and quantities of rewards reflect that.
The guilds that have this ridiculous 7 star Traya are now pulling up the ladder they used to get up and now we're all getting deliberately set back again just like when they nerfed JTR. Nerfing NS because of .0001% of players is simply outrageous and I already hated this raid, but now it's making me hate the entire game and the developers with it. This raid is causing guilds to hemorrhage members, arena players to plummet, and demolishing the communities built over the course of years.
We’ve been following the conversation on the Forums and Reddit and a lot of players have posited that we should change Darth Traya’s Health Steal buff. It’s a good idea, but doesn’t solve the root problem we have. Due to the interaction with Asajj, Bonds, and NS Acolyte, whenever we introduce a character with Health Steal Up again, we could potentially re-enable the loop. We’re making this change in the hopes that we have removed the potential for this specific interaction to occur again.
So the thing is, the part in bold in that quote? That's completely wrong. It only re-enables the loop if, like the Health Steal Up from Traya's Isolate, it re-applies itself every turn. Or if it's permanent. That's it. A character that grants a huge amount of permanent health steal to allies, or a character that allows allies to re-apply Health Steal Up to themselves every turn. Those are the only ways to re-enable the loop. A character who applies Health Steal Up to all allies for 3 turns does nothing to enable this combo. A character who gives out Health Steal Up for 20 turns would still barely make a difference here. It is not a difficult thing to avoid re-enabling this loop.
Nerfing Traya would not have affected any guild's ability to complete the Sith Raid. Literally not one single guild would've been prevented from completing the raid by a nerf (or change) to her Isolate-on-Raid-bosses mechanic - and honestly given that this is the first I've seen anybody really discuss using her for *any* raid, it seems like maybe her Isolate-on-Raid-bosses mechanic could've used some changes anyways to get people actually excited to use her against raid content.
But no, instead let's nerf Nightsisters, who are one of the very few actual meaningful answers to the question "What teams can I farm to help my guild with the Sith Raid?" And who a lot of people, as a result of that fact, have invested quite heavily in. Brilliant, just brilliant.
Also, just out of curiosity, since you're seriously nerfing the way Asajj, Daka, and Talia perform in the Sith Raid, and you're going to be nerfing paper Zombie, and you're making ominous noises about Acolyte's kit being on thin ice....how many nerfs to Nightsisters are we gonna get before you guys just admit you screwed up and go back to the drawing board with the entire Nightsister rework? There's only 8 Nightsisters and hardly anybody uses Spirit or Initiate, so at this point basically only Talzin is fine? Maybe you guys should just own it and go back and re-do the entire faction (again) instead of making it sit through one dumb nerf at a time.
I’m glad I don’t have nightsisters zetaed (except Talzin lead which I love to use), but I feel bad for all the players who heavily invested in nightsisters for P4. The nightsisters were working fine and as intended, there was no reason for a nerf to them. This looping mechanic should have been fixed differently.
I am worried about the acolyte/zombie combo, I hope they don’t totally nerf it, since I still have a lot of fun using them in events and galactic war.
And lastly, I’m actually excited that they’ll change the zombie. Mine is a paper one at g2, but it’d be fun to gear her up and still be able kill her easily and stack up asajj’s damage. Hopefully they do this and not completely nerf zombie or something.
There is a risk reward factor to the paper zombie strategy. With zombie so easily killed, there is a risk she dies and loses her taunt then DN annihialtes. This happens all the time and you have to be prepared for that consequence, but the reward is a charged up asajj. I dont see why this is an issue. Those that have geared her dont have the Rng to deal with, and still post solid damage.
Its amazing to me they cant see this and feel like they have to nerf another toon.
I have 2 characters with both of the G12+ pieces, and I'm actually losing more than before I added it.
Has anyone else who added G12+ seen a change one way or the other?
One thing CG doesn't seem to realize, or want to admit, small stat changes like this aren't game changers. G12+ is the hardest to get yet, and the changes are so small they're insignificant. All the stats for these should be doubled.
All I can say is if you think 12 extra speed is insignificant, you're a terrible player and it's a wonder you entered a HSTR guild. 12 speed for someone already over +120 on mods is the cutting edge that determines arena battles. For those of us without g12+ and Traya, believe me, it is more than noticeable. Some characters get almost +30% max health from it, and +12 speed? You must be as blind as Chirrut to call that insignificant.
Well no kidding, but if you're any good then you're competing against almost completely perfect mods, and a difference of 12 speed is like the difference between a decent and a stellar mod. Which does matter. Not even counting health or damage boosts.
I want everyone who is in a non HSTR guild to get some bloody g12+ and a 5 star Traya if they're going to keep making the raid more unreachable every freaking month. They halved expose damage, now they're messing up P4 Nihilus which is already **** built to require NS exclusively, or a less effective JTR team (actually more like 15 of them) even though you need JTR for P1 and Vet farm is brutal, so having enough requires a full roster of hardcore players.
How are we supposed to know when something like this is going to happen. WHY WAS NO TESTING EVEN DONE??? . I don’t want to work for weeks to get them to just flush them down the drain
Agree with you here. Simply saying this is lack of basic respect for players. The game is based on rules that creators set up and we follow. Changing those after months of farming is disrespectful. Perhaps it will be better to focus on testing the game instead of releasing dozens of new toons each month just to make the game more " attractive"?
Today I ran the critolyte team in p3. I had tons of paperwork to do, but I wanted to test how it would do. I spent a few hours on .gg trying to find enough cc to get to 65%. Sadly I had to run all cc mods, cc triangle. Got the offense arrow, but had to settle for defense cross lol, but it was my only way to get the required 65%.
I set the team up properly, hit auto basic, forgot to put on airplane mode and did 1.2m in p3 before everyone but hoda got wiped out. So if you think this team can't fail and is easy as hitting auto basic, that's not how it plays in the wild.
TL;DR
This team isn't 100% like cls in the rancor. It failed both times I tried it, granted it was in p3 and I don't have God mods.
Agreed Darklord. There’s got to be an easy fix that won’t ruin Daka’s zeta. And to blame the soloing of DN in p4 for this nerf is also ludicrous... that run took lots of actual button pressing and a lot more great rng/great mods than I think Devs are giving credit for. A Rancor can be solo’d by one team. So can Tank. To nerf NS simply bc somebody somewhere was successful in solo’ing DN is the worst reasoning for a nerf that I have ever heard and I’ve been playing/spending money for 3.5 years. If you ruin my Zetas and don’t give me good reasons, I want some significant refunds AND I will stop playing this game once I receive them.
There’s got to be an easy fix that won’t ruin Daka’s zeta. And to blame the soloing of DN in p4 for this nerf is also ludicrous... that run took lots of actual button pressing and a lot more great rng/great mods than I think Devs are giving credit for. A Rancor can be solo’d by one team. So can Tank. To nerf NS simply bc somebody somewhere was successful in solo’ing DN is the worst reasoning for a nerf that I have ever heard and I’ve been playing/spending money for 3.5 years. If you ruin my Zetas and don’t give me good reasons, I want some significant refunds AND I will stop playing this game once I receive them.
Every other day I want all the money back I ever spent. Would make for a new small car. But that won’t happen. So let’s not talk about money but about what we think.
I own a G12 zombie and used to be a top 5 scorer in hSTR before people found out how to utilize paper zombie in P4. A couple of guild members unlocked Traya by now and I still need 14 shards.
Generally I think that a nerf should have been implemented earlier to balance scoreboards. It’s too late now and CGs reasoning is not convincing. To use the Critolyte squad as an excuse seems more like a chance for CG to not having to own up to mistakes they made while designing the raid.
I want to see what they come up with for the zombie. Don’t think a G12 will be on par with the paper version. The raid is a mess and I don’t see how this could ever change.
First of all - I can kinda understand all the uproaring here in the forum after those changes and especially where I can understand guilds who are on the edge to beat the hstr- because this kind of throws them back, we all have to admit that those changes are also needed and good.
In guilds where the top 10 ranks just get decided between who has the sisters geared and who not- it's just lame. Especially because of the paper zombie tactic. All the guys who put also effort, time, money + gear on a zombie to get it maxed are screwed.
So a nerf to the sisters had to happen.
Probably should have been long time ago!
I put 5 zetas into this team and max geared G12. The zombie mechanics have been the same for 6 months. This is EA at it's finest. Can't figure out how to test things like Traya on HSR so now they overnerf to compensate.
i just Zetad both MT and DAka Hours before this stupis nerf..Why does the BOW need to b capped at 20..Wouldn't 30 or 35+ b more Fair?? i so **** right now..Couldn't even get to use the Squad in p4 and i come across this nerf..
The bosses will no longer get stacking tenacity to allow more teams to contribute now that ns are nerfed right cg?
If the whole point is to balance it out, let more teams do damage by removing the horrible mechanics that prevent debuffs from sticking. In the alternative, admit this is a cash grab. A little honesty would go a long way.
Sounds like **** to me. Another player who spent real world money on NS just to have one team that doesn't totally stink in that steaming pile of horse manure they call the sith raid. Took to Google to leave a review of a game for the first time ever. To bad I can't rate the game zero stars.
To the devs:
As you are well aware, effective squad compositions drive player decisions including the purchase and use of crystals. Having waited months to announce the changes to the NS squad of the raid, you have allowed the player base to spend time, energy, and money on a squad that will no longer perform the way the player anticipated. This is incredibly exploitive and does great harm to the community. Please do something to offset these changes and help our squads develop. My suggestion: 2600 crystals to roll on one of the marquis character packs twice or one roll of a chromium pack and ten Traya shards. This will allow people to refocus their farming and character development as well as being compensated for the lack of clarity about what constitutes a valid strategy for this raid. If not these suggestions, please do something.
@CG_Carrie Here is a thought, what if you made acolyte immune to turn meter gain for the raid only? Then it wouldn't mess with her for pvp and other pve content. You also wouldn't have to worry about another toon that grants healthsteal up to make another critolyte team work. That would also help stop the outrage over the 20 stacks of Bow not letting NS heal to full health. Thanks for your time.
Replies
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Thank you.
So the thing is, the part in bold in that quote? That's completely wrong. It only re-enables the loop if, like the Health Steal Up from Traya's Isolate, it re-applies itself every turn. Or if it's permanent. That's it. A character that grants a huge amount of permanent health steal to allies, or a character that allows allies to re-apply Health Steal Up to themselves every turn. Those are the only ways to re-enable the loop. A character who applies Health Steal Up to all allies for 3 turns does nothing to enable this combo. A character who gives out Health Steal Up for 20 turns would still barely make a difference here. It is not a difficult thing to avoid re-enabling this loop.
Nerfing Traya would not have affected any guild's ability to complete the Sith Raid. Literally not one single guild would've been prevented from completing the raid by a nerf (or change) to her Isolate-on-Raid-bosses mechanic - and honestly given that this is the first I've seen anybody really discuss using her for *any* raid, it seems like maybe her Isolate-on-Raid-bosses mechanic could've used some changes anyways to get people actually excited to use her against raid content.
But no, instead let's nerf Nightsisters, who are one of the very few actual meaningful answers to the question "What teams can I farm to help my guild with the Sith Raid?" And who a lot of people, as a result of that fact, have invested quite heavily in. Brilliant, just brilliant.
Also, just out of curiosity, since you're seriously nerfing the way Asajj, Daka, and Talia perform in the Sith Raid, and you're going to be nerfing paper Zombie, and you're making ominous noises about Acolyte's kit being on thin ice....how many nerfs to Nightsisters are we gonna get before you guys just admit you screwed up and go back to the drawing board with the entire Nightsister rework? There's only 8 Nightsisters and hardly anybody uses Spirit or Initiate, so at this point basically only Talzin is fine? Maybe you guys should just own it and go back and re-do the entire faction (again) instead of making it sit through one dumb nerf at a time.
There is a risk reward factor to the paper zombie strategy. With zombie so easily killed, there is a risk she dies and loses her taunt then DN annihialtes. This happens all the time and you have to be prepared for that consequence, but the reward is a charged up asajj. I dont see why this is an issue. Those that have geared her dont have the Rng to deal with, and still post solid damage.
Its amazing to me they cant see this and feel like they have to nerf another toon.
All I can say is if you think 12 extra speed is insignificant, you're a terrible player and it's a wonder you entered a HSTR guild. 12 speed for someone already over +120 on mods is the cutting edge that determines arena battles. For those of us without g12+ and Traya, believe me, it is more than noticeable. Some characters get almost +30% max health from it, and +12 speed? You must be as blind as Chirrut to call that insignificant.
Well no kidding, but if you're any good then you're competing against almost completely perfect mods, and a difference of 12 speed is like the difference between a decent and a stellar mod. Which does matter. Not even counting health or damage boosts.
Agree with you here. Simply saying this is lack of basic respect for players. The game is based on rules that creators set up and we follow. Changing those after months of farming is disrespectful. Perhaps it will be better to focus on testing the game instead of releasing dozens of new toons each month just to make the game more " attractive"?
I set the team up properly, hit auto basic, forgot to put on airplane mode and did 1.2m in p3 before everyone but hoda got wiped out. So if you think this team can't fail and is easy as hitting auto basic, that's not how it plays in the wild.
TL;DR
This team isn't 100% like cls in the rancor. It failed both times I tried it, granted it was in p3 and I don't have God mods.
I own a G12 zombie and used to be a top 5 scorer in hSTR before people found out how to utilize paper zombie in P4. A couple of guild members unlocked Traya by now and I still need 14 shards.
Generally I think that a nerf should have been implemented earlier to balance scoreboards. It’s too late now and CGs reasoning is not convincing. To use the Critolyte squad as an excuse seems more like a chance for CG to not having to own up to mistakes they made while designing the raid.
I want to see what they come up with for the zombie. Don’t think a G12 will be on par with the paper version. The raid is a mess and I don’t see how this could ever change.
First of all - I can kinda understand all the uproaring here in the forum after those changes and especially where I can understand guilds who are on the edge to beat the hstr- because this kind of throws them back, we all have to admit that those changes are also needed and good.
In guilds where the top 10 ranks just get decided between who has the sisters geared and who not- it's just lame. Especially because of the paper zombie tactic. All the guys who put also effort, time, money + gear on a zombie to get it maxed are screwed.
So a nerf to the sisters had to happen.
Probably should have been long time ago!
If the whole point is to balance it out, let more teams do damage by removing the horrible mechanics that prevent debuffs from sticking. In the alternative, admit this is a cash grab. A little honesty would go a long way.
To the devs:
As you are well aware, effective squad compositions drive player decisions including the purchase and use of crystals. Having waited months to announce the changes to the NS squad of the raid, you have allowed the player base to spend time, energy, and money on a squad that will no longer perform the way the player anticipated. This is incredibly exploitive and does great harm to the community. Please do something to offset these changes and help our squads develop. My suggestion: 2600 crystals to roll on one of the marquis character packs twice or one roll of a chromium pack and ten Traya shards. This will allow people to refocus their farming and character development as well as being compensated for the lack of clarity about what constitutes a valid strategy for this raid. If not these suggestions, please do something.
Thank you.