Further proof SRT is the single biggest mistake made in the game. Which hero is next to be reworked or adjusted instead of placing the blame on poor planning and implementation. Don't raise the bridge, lower the river.
I'll go out on a limb here and say the decision to rework Zombie was fairly independent of the raid. We'd been thinking about how we would tackle Paper Zombie for awhile prior. Critolyte expedited that thinking some, but we had already been thinking about it for a bit.
You seem sincere, but you do realize you are reaffirming your supposition of taking too long. What happens next will tell the tale. If whales balk and stop spending this will be reversed at light speed. Basically Night Sisters will draw dust again. The long reaching damage this will cause is not worth it in my opinion. A nerf like was made to JTR and expose related heroes would have been a smarter idea, many have built their arena teams and use NS' s as a goto team, only to now go back to square one.
So can they be revived more than twice just not by that mechanic?
Correct, other revives will still work. Only Zombie is prevented from reviving if she dies at -100% Speed from Endless Horde without having unlocked Undying Sacrifice.
Far too complicated for me to begin to understand how zombie works based on that description. Will need to see her in action before getting some idea of it. Can't tell how this will affect nightsisters in the heroic sith raid yet so I will hold off judgement.
I’ll tell you how it works... your score is gonna go down... there you go explanation complete welcome to the nerf sisters
Was it necessary to make it so complicated? Wouldn't it be better to have a clause like "If Nightsister Zombie has been revived more than (let's say) 2 times with this ability it doesn't trigger any abilities when she dies".
Or something along these lines?
This way you create the need to gear one more character(I had her at g8 and found her perfectly serviceable since she could take some damage) in the midst of panic farming/gearing all these marquees, plus saving for Chewbacca (and for some people about to unlock Traya that too). On top of that you made the Sith Raid even more complicated since most guild that beat it have come to a point where it just goes away, but now and especially with the reward structure being what it is(something you should have put as a priority over Zombie) you put more strain on officers to coordinate the NS teams since the P3 teams remain pretty much the same but P4 teams take a hit, so now you have to make sure not everyone plays NS in P3 to get the better score and then you're left with nothing for P4. And on top of that you add more strain in TW (Troopers may not be able to beat them now) so you have to explain an overcomplicated kit to all guildmates that are not constantly checking the forums/youtube etc to prevent stupid loses in TW or people failing miserably in P4.
Do you think all that added effort was really necessary?
Very shady deal CG. All you had to do was fix paper zombie. The kit changes do exactly that. Adding this "Nightsister Zombie can revive after being defeated at -100% Speed from Endless Horde. The first 2 times another Nightsister ally is defeated by an enemy attack, they are revived, recover 15% of Nightsister Zombie's Max Health and Nightsister Zombie is defeated" was not needed to accomplish that goal. This is clearly done to slow down p3 NS teams. We have ways to revive sisters as is by killing enemies with basic attack, or daka can do it. The Zombie fixes are actually really good and a super creative solution. Nerfing the p3 teams in the process was dirty!
Why not just reset everyone’s zombie and refund the gear and omega investsments and call it a day! This way, the game still functions as we have been used to for sooooooooo long and those that invested in zombie will have all that gear back. Win win. We can have one toon that doesn’t need to be geared up in this game without breaking it, I promise.
I'm a fan. And thank you the Old Daka refund along with this rework. I'm excited to continue using Zombie at a higher gear level with my Nightsisters and appreciate that you kept the theme of the faction intact with this change.
For those that are complaining, time for you to hit the drawing board and create new strategies for conquering the STR/HSTR. Changes happen, and you're allowed to not like them. But this just forces you to shoot for higher levels of play than you currently had. Which is sort of the point of a game like this.
So it doesn’t affect you so screw everyone else? That’s selfish as hell. Nerfs are not good for the community.
@CG_TopHat this taking 2 deaths for this team business with Zombie’s new ability does more harm than good.
Under an MT lead in HAAT or Sith P3, the tactic is to keep 2 sisters, ideally MT and either Spirit or Initiate, permanently dead.
They attack alternately from the grave and this helps power up Asajj too.
With Zombie taking the first 2 deaths on their behalf, it’ll be extremely difficult in the Sith raid to cue up this team. Not impossible, but frustratingly hard with all the Traya mechanics to work with.
So much for making life simpler! And due to all the extra turns taken to line it up, P3 damage will be a lot lower, so it’s a big nerf.
What’s sad here is that this tactic didn’t rely on a paper Zombie - in fact - a G10 Zombie was a good call because she could take some hits from the sabers and not die, enabling her to take the isolate attack off Traya.
Really bad call this one.
Under Asajj in P4, it’s kind of useless. It’s a good thing when Talia and MT die, this helps power up Asajj and Daka (we don’t just rely on zombie deaths for this!) so it really doesn’t change anything at all. Just the first and second time they’re supposed to die, they won’t, but then subsequently they just will. Pointless.
The special ability heal is okay, but only 20% means we’ll have to keep stacks of bonds very low, making it harder to build up damage via stacks of pain/suffering. Maybe if the cool down were reduced to 2 turns we’d feel the benefit, with the speed boosts.
The fact that the 2 freebie deaths won’t take an annihilate really kills off any hope of it being a P4 life saver.
I would give up the ability for zombie to take the first 2 ally deaths in a heart beat if you could find some other method to keep DN focused on her in P4. All too often he does weird things which no matter how well lined up, causes him to annihilate someone other than zombie, no matter how well teed up you thought it was. This is a huge source of frustration and sadly not addressed by this change.
Please rethink this part of the zombie rework. It’s really harmful to the team. It’s GOOD when Nightsisters die, unless by annihilate. I’m sure you can come up with something better x
I think everyone is jumping the gun here. Am I the only one thinking about how this can improve the score?
Yeah, it’s a bit over my head, but that extra speed should give a big boost to p3 MT lead team I think. Not really sure till we can play with it in game tho.
"The first 2 times another Nightsister ally is defeated by an enemy attack, they are revived, recover 15% of Nightsister Zombie's Max Health and Nightsister Zombie is defeated." Is this 2 times per individual Nightsister or 2 times total (for all other allies combined)?
"The first 2 times another Nightsister ally is defeated by an enemy attack, they are revived, recover 15% of Nightsister Zombie's Max Health and Nightsister Zombie is defeated." Is this 2 times per individual Nightsister or 2 times for any other ally (total)?
Please refund my Talzin lead zeta. P3 of HSTR is the only reason I used this zeta. I want it back.
This isn’t a rework, it’s a straight up nerf aimed at HSTR. Please be honest with your player base. As the owner of a g11, non-paper zombie, I’d rather you leave the mechanics as they were than punish all zombie owners.
Man. This is really, really frustrating. I’ve been working on my NS for months to run in P3 of Sith Raid. I just put the three needed zetas on my characters yesterday and now I probably will not be able to run the P3 team. I’ve never complained on forums, but I am pretty upset.
That does suck but this rework has been coming for a long time now. And it's not like NS faction will suck they just won't be able to solo DN in P4 anymore.
The changes are huge and affect a lot all the NS faction. I think, and i know i'm not the only one, that devs should refund EVERY investment made in NS and not only the Daka zeta.
I'm a fan. And thank you the Old Daka refund along with this rework. I'm excited to continue using Zombie at a higher gear level with my Nightsisters and appreciate that you kept the theme of the faction intact with this change.
For those that are complaining, time for you to hit the drawing board and create new strategies for conquering the STR/HSTR. Changes happen, and you're allowed to not like them. But this just forces you to shoot for higher levels of play than you currently had. Which is sort of the point of a game like this.
So it doesn’t affect you so screw everyone else? That’s selfish as hell. Nerfs are not good for the community.
You haven't even tried it yet, stop calling it a nerf before you try. Also, I know several people that geared her up a lot so they are in better shape now. Anything CG was going to do was going to upset someone. Sorry you are the one upset, but it's time we figure something else out. A better geared character should perform better than an under geared character plain and simple.
Man. This is really, really frustrating. I’ve been working on my NS for months to run in P3 of Sith Raid. I just put the three needed zetas on my characters yesterday and now I probably will not be able to run the P3 team. I’ve never complained on forums, but I am pretty upset.
That does suck but this rework has been coming for a long time now. And it's not like NS faction will suck they just won't be able to solo DN in P4 anymore.
Which is why it is happening. The main and only reason.
@CG_TopHat this taking 2 deaths for this team business with Zombie’s new ability does more harm than good.
Under an MT lead in HAAT or Sith P3, the tactic is to keep 2 sisters, ideally MT and either Spirit or Initiate, permanently dead.
They attack alternately from the grave and this helps power up Asajj too.
With Zombie taking the first 2 deaths on their behalf, it’ll be extremely difficult in the Sith raid to cue up this team. Not impossible, but frustratingly hard with all the Traya mechanics to work with.
So much for making life simpler! And due to all the extra turns taken to line it up, P3 damage will be a lot lower, so it’s a big nerf.
What’s sad here is that this tactic didn’t rely on a paper Zombie - in fact - a G10 Zombie was a good call because she could take some hits from the sabers and not die, enabling her to take the isolate attack off Traya.
Really bad call this one.
I dont think it changes much, you get 2 revives total for all NS so most likely those will be used on Spirit or Initiate and if you dont lvl up Undying Sacrifice revived Spirit or Initiate will only get 15% of NS Zombie health back which makes them easy to kill again.
I did not read through 4 pages to see if this was touched upon or not, so I apologize if it was.
Looking over the 2x Revival aspect... so if I loose Talia in normal combat, she will revive immediately? That kinda takes away from a strategy I use, in allowing a player to stay dead for a bit (2-3 turns) during the match for the chance of a little extra offense would it not?
I hate to say it but I think you can keep the two revivals aspect.
So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.
Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?
So if I'm reading this correctly, Undying Sacrifice allows zombie to be revived at -100% speed, but she can never get that speed back, so she will never take another turn or be able to regain taunt.
Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?
Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."
Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.
@CG_TopHat this change doesn't stop MT's zeta from working right? It just makes it harder to get it going, and severally reduces asajj's effectiveness? (No one is buying the forced healing is a positive either.)
I'll hold judgment until I play it, but on paper this looks like another nerf based around a horrible raid that's universally disliked.
Replies
You seem sincere, but you do realize you are reaffirming your supposition of taking too long. What happens next will tell the tale. If whales balk and stop spending this will be reversed at light speed. Basically Night Sisters will draw dust again. The long reaching damage this will cause is not worth it in my opinion. A nerf like was made to JTR and expose related heroes would have been a smarter idea, many have built their arena teams and use NS' s as a goto team, only to now go back to square one.
Correct, other revives will still work. Only Zombie is prevented from reviving if she dies at -100% Speed from Endless Horde without having unlocked Undying Sacrifice.
I’ll tell you how it works... your score is gonna go down... there you go explanation complete welcome to the nerf sisters
Was it necessary to make it so complicated? Wouldn't it be better to have a clause like "If Nightsister Zombie has been revived more than (let's say) 2 times with this ability it doesn't trigger any abilities when she dies".
Or something along these lines?
This way you create the need to gear one more character(I had her at g8 and found her perfectly serviceable since she could take some damage) in the midst of panic farming/gearing all these marquees, plus saving for Chewbacca (and for some people about to unlock Traya that too). On top of that you made the Sith Raid even more complicated since most guild that beat it have come to a point where it just goes away, but now and especially with the reward structure being what it is(something you should have put as a priority over Zombie) you put more strain on officers to coordinate the NS teams since the P3 teams remain pretty much the same but P4 teams take a hit, so now you have to make sure not everyone plays NS in P3 to get the better score and then you're left with nothing for P4. And on top of that you add more strain in TW (Troopers may not be able to beat them now) so you have to explain an overcomplicated kit to all guildmates that are not constantly checking the forums/youtube etc to prevent stupid loses in TW or people failing miserably in P4.
Do you think all that added effort was really necessary?
Under an MT lead in HAAT or Sith P3, the tactic is to keep 2 sisters, ideally MT and either Spirit or Initiate, permanently dead.
They attack alternately from the grave and this helps power up Asajj too.
With Zombie taking the first 2 deaths on their behalf, it’ll be extremely difficult in the Sith raid to cue up this team. Not impossible, but frustratingly hard with all the Traya mechanics to work with.
So much for making life simpler! And due to all the extra turns taken to line it up, P3 damage will be a lot lower, so it’s a big nerf.
What’s sad here is that this tactic didn’t rely on a paper Zombie - in fact - a G10 Zombie was a good call because she could take some hits from the sabers and not die, enabling her to take the isolate attack off Traya.
Really bad call this one.
Under Asajj in P4, it’s kind of useless. It’s a good thing when Talia and MT die, this helps power up Asajj and Daka (we don’t just rely on zombie deaths for this!) so it really doesn’t change anything at all. Just the first and second time they’re supposed to die, they won’t, but then subsequently they just will. Pointless.
The special ability heal is okay, but only 20% means we’ll have to keep stacks of bonds very low, making it harder to build up damage via stacks of pain/suffering. Maybe if the cool down were reduced to 2 turns we’d feel the benefit, with the speed boosts.
The fact that the 2 freebie deaths won’t take an annihilate really kills off any hope of it being a P4 life saver.
I would give up the ability for zombie to take the first 2 ally deaths in a heart beat if you could find some other method to keep DN focused on her in P4. All too often he does weird things which no matter how well lined up, causes him to annihilate someone other than zombie, no matter how well teed up you thought it was. This is a huge source of frustration and sadly not addressed by this change.
Please rethink this part of the zombie rework. It’s really harmful to the team. It’s GOOD when Nightsisters die, unless by annihilate. I’m sure you can come up with something better x
Yeah, it’s a bit over my head, but that extra speed should give a big boost to p3 MT lead team I think. Not really sure till we can play with it in game tho.
"The first 2 times another Nightsister ally is defeated by an enemy attack, they are revived, recover 15% of Nightsister Zombie's Max Health and Nightsister Zombie is defeated." Is this 2 times per individual Nightsister or 2 times total (for all other allies combined)?
Thanks!
Two times total.
Can you make it the latter for a zeta? Seriously, please?
This isn’t a rework, it’s a straight up nerf aimed at HSTR. Please be honest with your player base. As the owner of a g11, non-paper zombie, I’d rather you leave the mechanics as they were than punish all zombie owners.
So basically you totally destroyed the faction. Giving two extra revives does not equal all the extra offense asaj received by having a paper zombie.
That does suck but this rework has been coming for a long time now. And it's not like NS faction will suck they just won't be able to solo DN in P4 anymore.
You haven't even tried it yet, stop calling it a nerf before you try. Also, I know several people that geared her up a lot so they are in better shape now. Anything CG was going to do was going to upset someone. Sorry you are the one upset, but it's time we figure something else out. A better geared character should perform better than an under geared character plain and simple.
Which is why it is happening. The main and only reason.
Looking over the 2x Revival aspect... so if I loose Talia in normal combat, she will revive immediately? That kinda takes away from a strategy I use, in allowing a player to stay dead for a bit (2-3 turns) during the match for the chance of a little extra offense would it not?
I hate to say it but I think you can keep the two revivals aspect.
Which means the extra revive is only useful for feeding AV, Daka, etc. Am I wrong?
Copied here for ease: "When Nightsister Zombie is defeated by this effect, she loses all Protection, dispels all negative Speed effects from Endless Horde and revives with 50% Turn Meter."
Undying Sacrifice's revives will reset the negative speed from Endless Horde, re-enabling Zombie's ability to take turns and taunt.
I'll hold judgment until I play it, but on paper this looks like another nerf based around a horrible raid that's universally disliked.