Nightsister Zombie Rework: Begone Paper, Hello Fat [MEGA]

Replies

  • Ohhplzz wrote: »
    So you going to nerf Trayas endless cycle of goes in the sith raid too or is it only game breaking if we do it..

    Hahahaha. That's not a nerf, it's a feature!
    Guild Leader of CHAL | Member of the WWL Alliance
  • As someone who had a gl 12 zombie pre sith raid I will be putting that zeta back on daka. I will also be getting higher scores in p4.
  • Yay, I killed daka... no you didnt. Ok, lets kill the zombie, nope. Try killing it again, nope. Ok, what if I kill this one. Nope.

    You may only kill nightsisters on a sunday, if they are within the city walls, after dark, and with a long bow.
  • I cannot say I am toooo optimistic about this update
  • DyloBin
    45 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    A "nerf" implies a character (or in this case, as some are saying, faction) is all-around worse in all areas. I don't see that here.

    If your G7/G8 Zombie isn't capable of taking a hit or two and getting a turn afterwards, that sounds like a poor modding issue to me. So, this kit change doesn't remove Paper Zombie as a viable option. It just requires you to invest in mods to at least increase her speed. Which you probably should have been doing to begin with.

    This change, however, does increase the value of a stronger Zombie (particularly in Arena) while leaving a well-modded Paper Zombie relatively unchanged. In other words, it simply makes a higher gear Zombie better in most cases than a low gear Zombie. Which is the entire point of the rework.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Citizen_J wrote: »
    CG, what happens in the sith raid when zombie is at -100% speed, thrawn swaps TM and zombie pops unbreakable will?

    Units with no speed cannot take a turn even when they have 100% turn meter. Players already experience this when they use Thrawn to swap turn meter with a Fractured ally.

    Yes, but doesn't that mean that because Zombie popped unbreakable will and cannot take a turn, that she is forever taunting, impossible to kill, and therefore able to solo P1 of the raid?

    How would Zombie use Unbreakable Will with -100% speed and thus not being able to take a turn?

    Ahhh you're right, for some reason I thought about her dying once to get a stack, activating UW, then getting killed again to have it on her forever, but that is made impossible by her inability to die a second time during this time. So we just have to make very slow zombies with great health, let her die once, throw on UW, and then spam attacks.
  • Breaking news: Rick Grimes is also really **** about no more paper zombies
  • electricnick260
    193 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Grimstoned wrote: »
    I want my **** asajj ventures leadership zeta back. WTH!

    Ventress lead should be even better for Zombie now, because it leads to forced turn meter gain for zombie which will help her a lot when she's at -100% speed. I don't see why you're so upset. Daka Zeta, okay I see how that one could be frustrating, but not ventress.

    Edit: Okay my bad I didn't think about how units with 0 speed can't take a turn even with full turn meter. Glad I realized it before someone else got mad at least lol

    Edit 2: However she still will benefit from the turn meter when her speed is cut in half and she really needs the boost
  • As someone who's been using paper zombie, I'm perfectly happy that I can gear her up and play around with the new mechanics. +100% speed permanently as long as she gets hit and lives more often than dying? If this is calculated after mods that's going to be over 450 speed with a good speed set.

    I haven't played around with the P3 HSTR squad much but if I understand it right then zombie will be taking a bunch of turns with the extra speed, getting a bunch of dead NS assists which should at least somewhat make up for zombie dying less. For P4 HSTR she is getting a team heal which should mean longer attack chains which should also offset some of the reduced damage from zombie deaths.

    Also, getting 2 "free" resurrections for NS allies is huge. Right now if a teammate dies and their isn't a rez you just lose that character for the rest of the fight (maybe Daka dies and there are no adds to use Talzin's special, maybe Talzin dies and Daka's heal/res is on cooldown, etc.). After this rework they would come back to life not once but twice, essentially for free.

    As far as I can tell the only "nerfs" are that zombie needs to be gear 10 to get infinite revives (which can still be pretty squishy) and she doesn't take turns if she dies twice in a row, but will still revive if she keeps dying. Besides that she gets a heal and team revives, which are both buffs - except for the P3 HSTR team being harder to kill off but if you unlock the ability and leave it level 1 they only come back with 15% of zombie's health so they can die again easily.

    Yes NS will do less damage in the raids, but they have been doing far above average in every raid as a faction and now they will just be closer to average. I wouldn't be surprised to still see them in the top 5 teams for HSTR once some of the players smarter than I figures out how to maximize the new kit. Outside of raids I think they will be a much more interesting faction to play with instead of just playing "how many times can I make paper zombie die before I run out of turns?"
  • DyloBin
    45 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    A "nerf" implies a character (or in this case, as some are saying, faction) is all-around worse in all areas. I don't see that here.

    If your G7/G8 Zombie isn't capable of taking a hit or two and getting a turn afterwards, that sounds like a poor modding issue to me. So, this kit change doesn't remove Paper Zombie as a viable option. It just requires you to invest in mods to at least increase her speed. Which you probably should have been doing to begin with.

    This change, however, does increase the value of a stronger Zombie (particularly in Arena) while leaving a well-modded Paper Zombie relatively unchanged. In other words, it simply makes a higher gear Zombie better in most cases than a low gear Zombie. Which is the entire point of the rework.

    It doesn’t make the higher gear any better it only makes the lower levels worse. This team won’t be arena viable with this change and won’t make them any more effective in any other areas of the game this will just make zombie and ns less effective in the raid. And a nerf isn’t necessarily to one toon it can be to an entire faction or rewards or anything that takes the punch away from the players side by a developer. That is why this is a #NERF

    I'm gonna need you to elaborate, Chewy.

    In what universe does this make a low gear Zombie worse if you mod her correctly? I can see how it makes a Zombie with literally no investment at all worse, but if that's the Zombie you were using you don't deserve to be succeeding with it. Period.

    And this definitely increases the value of a stronger Zombie. Sacrificial plays to revive other Nightsisters when your taunt has been removed is a net gain.
  • Ok how about some scenarios....
    1. zombie defeated once and now at -50% speed. She gets to her next turn, and if she took damage she is back to normal speed. If she didn't (if no stacks of bonds or something) she is still at -50%, so she pops unbreakable will. Now she cannot die so she will never reach -100% speed until after her next turn. Iirc we are talking p3 and traya has no aoe, so no one else can die to trigger undying sacrifice, avoiding questions on how that would be resolved. Ok, so nothing broken here, and if you pull it off perfectly you have extra long with unbreakable will.
    2. zombie defeated twice and at -100% speed, unable to take a turn even with 100% filled tm bar. She is stuck like this until undying sacrifice triggers by an ally dying, when her speed is bumped back up to normal and other such effects. BTW, the way this is worded it sounds like 2 revives are occurring, @CG_TopHat can you confirm this gives 2 stacks to ventress and daka? I.e. is it that the ally dies and is revived, and zombie also dies at the same time and is revived? Or is it that zombie dies in lieu of the ally? If the former, then this helps offset the decreased frequency of zombie deaths feeding stacks.
  • That core rule - investing more deeply in a character should always be better in terms of gameplay outcomes - is called a TENET, not tenant.

    Thanks for the commentary because your formal statement of Undying Sacrifice was as clear as mud.
  • DyloBin wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    A "nerf" implies a character (or in this case, as some are saying, faction) is all-around worse in all areas. I don't see that here.

    If your G7/G8 Zombie isn't capable of taking a hit or two and getting a turn afterwards, that sounds like a poor modding issue to me. So, this kit change doesn't remove Paper Zombie as a viable option. It just requires you to invest in mods to at least increase her speed. Which you probably should have been doing to begin with.

    This change, however, does increase the value of a stronger Zombie (particularly in Arena) while leaving a well-modded Paper Zombie relatively unchanged. In other words, it simply makes a higher gear Zombie better in most cases than a low gear Zombie. Which is the entire point of the rework.

    It doesn’t make the higher gear any better it only makes the lower levels worse. This team won’t be arena viable with this change and won’t make them any more effective in any other areas of the game this will just make zombie and ns less effective in the raid. And a nerf isn’t necessarily to one toon it can be to an entire faction or rewards or anything that takes the punch away from the players side by a developer. That is why this is a #NERF

    I'm gonna need you to elaborate, Chewy.

    In what universe does this make a low gear Zombie worse if you mod her correctly? I can see how it makes a Zombie with literally no investment at all worse, but if that's the Zombie you were using you don't deserve to be succeeding with it. Period.

    And this definitely increases the value of a stronger Zombie. Sacrificial plays to revive other Nightsisters when your taunt has been removed is a net gain.

    What is lower gear exactly? Gear 10 is where zombie starts to become effective post rework and I’m using effective loosely. G10 is not low gear. Like I said this doesn’t allow for multiple strategies this purely hurts lower gear zombies and doesn’t actually make higher gear any better.
  • Grimstoned wrote: »
    Just refund the faction completely and let us decide if we want to invest in this new nightsister faction. People that like them can re- up. Simple. It’s like a recall.

    This.

  • Lol +100 speed more turns for zombie more useless hits on raid boss feeding them turn meter...

    All zetas should be refunded let us decide what to do
  • Franimus wrote: »
    Ok how about some scenarios....
    1. zombie defeated once and now at -50% speed. She gets to her next turn, and if she took damage she is back to normal speed. If she didn't (if no stacks of bonds or something) she is still at -50%, so she pops unbreakable will. Now she cannot die so she will never reach -100% speed until after her next turn. Iirc we are talking p3 and traya has no aoe, so no one else can die to trigger undying sacrifice, avoiding questions on how that would be resolved. Ok, so nothing broken here, and if you pull it off perfectly you have extra long with unbreakable will.
    2. zombie defeated twice and at -100% speed, unable to take a turn even with 100% filled tm bar. She is stuck like this until undying sacrifice triggers by an ally dying, when her speed is bumped back up to normal and other such effects. BTW, the way this is worded it sounds like 2 revives are occurring, @CG_TopHat can you confirm this gives 2 stacks to ventress and daka? I.e. is it that the ally dies and is revived, and zombie also dies at the same time and is revived? Or is it that zombie dies in lieu of the ally? If the former, then this helps offset the decreased frequency of zombie deaths feeding stacks.

    No unbreakable will in p3....
  • If zombie dies now it says she cannot be revived, after such and such. Those were self revivals, so does that include Daka or Talz lead zeta? Can they still revive her?
  • 7_GSTF wrote: »
    Ohhplzz wrote: »
    So you going to nerf Trayas endless cycle of goes in the sith raid too or is it only game breaking if we do it..

    Only if we do it, of course.

    I think I counted 14 times in a row once in T-6 against my zylo... And he didn't counter once.
  • As long as they take back all the rewards you earned using those materials and zetas and such , then i am all for giving you a refund . You know since they are worthless , you wont mind losing the worthless rewards you got using them.
  • Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    Chewy88 wrote: »
    DyloBin wrote: »
    A "nerf" implies a character (or in this case, as some are saying, faction) is all-around worse in all areas. I don't see that here.

    If your G7/G8 Zombie isn't capable of taking a hit or two and getting a turn afterwards, that sounds like a poor modding issue to me. So, this kit change doesn't remove Paper Zombie as a viable option. It just requires you to invest in mods to at least increase her speed. Which you probably should have been doing to begin with.

    This change, however, does increase the value of a stronger Zombie (particularly in Arena) while leaving a well-modded Paper Zombie relatively unchanged. In other words, it simply makes a higher gear Zombie better in most cases than a low gear Zombie. Which is the entire point of the rework.

    It doesn’t make the higher gear any better it only makes the lower levels worse. This team won’t be arena viable with this change and won’t make them any more effective in any other areas of the game this will just make zombie and ns less effective in the raid. And a nerf isn’t necessarily to one toon it can be to an entire faction or rewards or anything that takes the punch away from the players side by a developer. That is why this is a #NERF

    I'm gonna need you to elaborate, Chewy.

    In what universe does this make a low gear Zombie worse if you mod her correctly? I can see how it makes a Zombie with literally no investment at all worse, but if that's the Zombie you were using you don't deserve to be succeeding with it. Period.

    And this definitely increases the value of a stronger Zombie. Sacrificial plays to revive other Nightsisters when your taunt has been removed is a net gain.

    What is lower gear exactly? Gear 10 is where zombie starts to become effective post rework and I’m using effective loosely. G10 is not low gear. Like I said this doesn’t allow for multiple strategies this purely hurts lower gear zombies and doesn’t actually make higher gear any better.

    By "low gear" I mean to say the standard Paper Zombie used, which seems to be around G7/G8 for most players. Which if modded correctly is still completely viable. The hit to the Paper Zombie strategy only occurs if your Zombie isn't fast enough to get a turn after taking some hits. Hence my confusion as to why people are enraged about the changes. If you can't pull that off, it's a modding issue, not a kit issue.

    And with the changes, a higher gear Zombie (G10+) will see additional benefits for the team, particularly in other areas of the game. Nightsisters aren't going to dominate the meta, but they already weren't doing that. But the changes make them better suited than they were before and viable in lower power shards. Especially when one considers how accessible many of the characters are for new players.
  • If Talz on lead zeta, zombie dies first, especially while lots of paper is still out there, when a basic is used and an enemy toon is defeated does zombie revive per talz zeta? If so is she reset?
  • Gorem
    1152 posts Member
    NS TW walls are going to be impossible to break through now? lol

    For PVP this change is insane, for PVE it makes NS worse. Its basically like this is now the Timeout Team

    Going against NS means you need to increase the battle timer
  • When the Sith raid "Critolyte" team was nerfed, Daka's Zeta was refunded. Now that Assaj's Rampage Zeta is nerfed with this Zombie rework will there be a refund on her Zeta? I think it's only fair.
  • Who do I contact about getting my Asajj zetas refunded? The only reason I worked on these teams is for the raid, now I can’t do any damage at my low level as that was my only good team. Should I put in a ticket?
  • On behalf of the NS discord, I must ask, if a zombie with the -100% debuffs has speed up, will she still be able to take a turn?
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