Galactic Power Adjustment

Replies

  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    I believe the multiplier is 1.5.

    It doesn't produce accurate results with that multiplier, it's still way off.
    Doesn't help that gp for level and star count was off either..

    When I've tried to figure it out in the past it came out to be accurate for me. You'll have to give me a specific example of where it's off to work from.

    See my vandor comparison above, the match doesn't check out for em. Not based on that old chart anyway. And I can provide screenshots of an unleveled 3* & 4* and a lvl82 upgrade, all of the gp upgrades not matching that calculation either

    Sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying in that post. I only look at a specific upgrade. E.g. a character is 1*, I promote that character to 2*, that character's GP goes up by 150. That is the type of example I mean.

    I'm showcasing 4 different vandor chewies from my guild, at their current levels, stars, etc to show the impact of stars v gear.
    I can't reverse engineer the gp tho, from the old calculation chart

    Way too many factors you haven't listed. Ability level for each ability (besides the zetas), character level, star level of mods, plus I believe that since that chart was originally published they added a factor for mod color as well.

    All abilities maxed, except the zeta on 2. All 5 dot mods, all lvl85, and I don't think the mod color matters but I can go check

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/9bec38/psa_mod_slicing_affects_gp_and_ship_stats/
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    I believe the multiplier is 1.5.

    It doesn't produce accurate results with that multiplier, it's still way off.
    Doesn't help that gp for level and star count was off either..

    When I've tried to figure it out in the past it came out to be accurate for me. You'll have to give me a specific example of where it's off to work from.

    See my vandor comparison above, the match doesn't check out for em. Not based on that old chart anyway. And I can provide screenshots of an unleveled 3* & 4* and a lvl82 upgrade, all of the gp upgrades not matching that calculation either

    Sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying in that post. I only look at a specific upgrade. E.g. a character is 1*, I promote that character to 2*, that character's GP goes up by 150. That is the type of example I mean.

    I'm showcasing 4 different vandor chewies from my guild, at their current levels, stars, etc to show the impact of stars v gear.
    I can't reverse engineer the gp tho, from the old calculation chart

    Way too many factors you haven't listed. Ability level for each ability (besides the zetas), character level, star level of mods, plus I believe that since that chart was originally published they added a factor for mod color as well.

    All abilities maxed, except the zeta on 2. All 5 dot mods, all lvl85, and I don't think the mod color matters but I can go check

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/9bec38/psa_mod_slicing_affects_gp_and_ship_stats/

    All abilities maxed, except the zeta on 2. All 5 dot mods, all lvl85, and I don't think the mod color matters but I can go check
    Edit: replaced a purple mod with a blue and my gp dropped 44 points. Turns out you're right
  • This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    And the existing calculation that comes before new stuff ;)
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    And the existing calculation that comes before new stuff ;)

    Did you look at my post with four different vandors? It was interesting how garbage he is without stars, even at high gear. And how much the stars add to all his stats
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    And the existing calculation that comes before new stuff ;)

    Did you look at my post with four different vandors? It was interesting how garbage he is without stars, even at high gear. And how much the stars add to all his stats

    I will study it when I have time. Currently wrapping up a job on overtime.

    How did you go from 6* g8 to 7* g6 though? xD
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Y
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    And the existing calculation that comes before new stuff ;)

    Did you look at my post with four different vandors? It was interesting how garbage he is without stars, even at high gear. And how much the stars add to all his stats

    I will study it when I have time. Currently wrapping up a job on overtime.

    How did you go from 6* g8 to 7* g6 though? xD

    I looked at mine compared to 3 other guys in my guild. I used vandor cuz he's not a priority for most, so was sure to be different for each of us. Mine is the g11 4* sadly.. He gets one shot by everything, despite being g11 lol
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Y
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    And the existing calculation that comes before new stuff ;)

    Did you look at my post with four different vandors? It was interesting how garbage he is without stars, even at high gear. And how much the stars add to all his stats

    I will study it when I have time. Currently wrapping up a job on overtime.

    How did you go from 6* g8 to 7* g6 though? xD

    I looked at mine compared to 3 other guys in my guild. I used vandor cuz he's not a priority for most, so was sure to be different for each of us. Mine is the g11 4* sadly.. He gets one shot by everything, despite being g11 lol

    Cool, thanks for the work.
  • Ok so this blew up even more. I see a ton of discussion of numbers and stats. That’s only half the discussion and the other side is getting lost.

    Numbers cannot reflect the new abilities and synergies. Traya, Sion, and Nihilis all boost each other. Han and Chewie have that back to back shot thing going on. There are more examples out there.

    These type of improvements can’t be captured in numbers. Just take a few min and look at the ability descriptions of the original toons and the new toons. The original Jedi are a joke compared to the Sith Triumvirate.

    How do you quantify TM reductions/gains, granting protection, granting advantage, ability cooldowns, etc.? I’m talking the little things that happen during a battle, not just how much health and defense they have.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    rascaedus wrote: »
    Ok so this blew up even more. I see a ton of discussion of numbers and stats. That’s only half the discussion and the other side is getting lost.

    Numbers cannot reflect the new abilities and synergies. Traya, Sion, and Nihilis all boost each other. Han and Chewie have that back to back shot thing going on. There are more examples out there.

    These type of improvements can’t be captured in numbers. Just take a few min and look at the ability descriptions of the original toons and the new toons. The original Jedi are a joke compared to the Sith Triumvirate.

    How do you quantify TM reductions/gains, granting protection, granting advantage, ability cooldowns, etc.? I’m talking the little things that happen during a battle, not just how much health and defense they have.

    I get what you're saying, and I agree to some extend. Especially the older toons needing some love..
    That said tho, it's not like there's any toon that doesn't have multiple counters.
    So even tho a few have really cool and seemingly very overpowered abilities, it's mostly just hype until everyone is used to taking them down. Just like gk used to be, or palp, bastilla, nest, nightsisters, even Phoenix briefly..
  • Kyno
    22243 posts Moderator
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    The system never seemed weighted correctly for any "effective rating" vs usefulness from a player perspective (i.e.- combat usefulness). It always seemed to be more of a total investment rated from in game usefulness (i.e. - where they can be used).

    But would redistribution of the weighted score really help?

    7* leading to g12 leading to 6 dot mods, makes 7* really important in the grand scheme, so they may have been thinking about that and not just usefulness in raids and all phases of TB.

  • On a broader note , this always bugged me
    ydh8vhkrk7bz.jpg

    7* gear 1 lvl is more gp than a 4 * lvl 48 toon at gear 6, which is odd since you could take 100 7* gear 1 lvl 1 into battle against my lvl 48 gear 6 4 * super commando and he would beat them all , but his gp is not as high. Which means gp doesnt reflect power or investment , as lvl 48 gear 6 , takes little to no investment compared to a 7* non store toon.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    The system never seemed weighted correctly for any "effective rating" vs usefulness from a player perspective (i.e.- combat usefulness). It always seemed to be more of a total investment rated from in game usefulness (i.e. - where they can be used).

    But would redistribution of the weighted score really help?

    7* leading to g12 leading to 6 dot mods, makes 7* really important in the grand scheme, so they may have been thinking about that and not just usefulness in raids and all phases of TB.

    I'm honestly not sure what you are saying here..
    So you're agreeing that it's a measurement of investment, but not accurate for usefulness right?
    Even So, is there an accurate formula or breakdown of how it's calculated? Since it's applied to every toon, and the basis of the matchmaking system, couldn't that be useful information for players to have?
  • Kyno
    22243 posts Moderator
    Gannon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    The system never seemed weighted correctly for any "effective rating" vs usefulness from a player perspective (i.e.- combat usefulness). It always seemed to be more of a total investment rated from in game usefulness (i.e. - where they can be used).

    But would redistribution of the weighted score really help?

    7* leading to g12 leading to 6 dot mods, makes 7* really important in the grand scheme, so they may have been thinking about that and not just usefulness in raids and all phases of TB.

    I'm honestly not sure what you are saying here..
    So you're agreeing that it's a measurement of investment, but not accurate for usefulness right?
    Even So, is there an accurate formula or breakdown of how it's calculated? Since it's applied to every toon, and the basis of the matchmaking system, couldn't that be useful information for players to have?

    I agree it is A measure of investment, but as far as anything else it shows, there is nothing useful to gain from comparing that number at a more granular level. (Which is why I think it can be good for broad matchmaking, because its arbitrary)

    The number does nothing for comparing a team or a toon.

    The number is purely, how many stars, how many levels, what abilities have been upgraded(and how many does that toon have), what gear and does that toon have mods(which level mods)

    Each of those values is static, whether it is CLS or CUP (which makes it good for broad matchmaking), i.e. - lvl 84 on each toon adds the same GP...ext.

    But my question is does changing what is weighted and how really change the end effectiveness of the system when it comes to match making? The system needs to remain unbiased to allow for players choices to show through. If a player can make a team of older toons work to win a match, why should they be scored differently than 5 newer toons? Should the dev team really be in charge of weighting our choices as players?

    Weighting stars more importantly than high end gear, does that make sense? Does changing it make things different?
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    rascaedus wrote: »
    Ok so this blew up even more. I see a ton of discussion of numbers and stats. That’s only half the discussion and the other side is getting lost.

    Numbers cannot reflect the new abilities and synergies. Traya, Sion, and Nihilis all boost each other. Han and Chewie have that back to back shot thing going on. There are more examples out there.

    These type of improvements can’t be captured in numbers. Just take a few min and look at the ability descriptions of the original toons and the new toons. The original Jedi are a joke compared to the Sith Triumvirate.

    How do you quantify TM reductions/gains, granting protection, granting advantage, ability cooldowns, etc.? I’m talking the little things that happen during a battle, not just how much health and defense they have.

    I don't think anyone is oblivious to toon kits. However it's not easy to quantify and would take much more effort than this topic's focus.

    Also I'm pretty sure we can never get CG to admit not all toons are created equal, there's serious power creep in the game, thus toons should have weighted GP values. That's against biz sense. Besides Kyno will merrily come to their help to educate you on how almost every toon has their usage, it's player choice and other bla ad infinitum.
  • Whatelse73 wrote: »
    The problem with the current GA system is that CG wants us to be "collectors" because they make more money that way, but GA calculating GP to create opponents punishes collectors for having more characters unlocked, 7 star, geared up, etc., vs the person who has like 30 gear 12 characters. I know because I faced someone like that in my last GA. He had twice as many gear 12 characters as me, more zetas, but half his "roster" was level 1 characters that weren't even touched.

    I don't think CG wants you to collect all characters and gear them only to g7. They want you to go big and have a g12 7 star full roster. If you had that you'd be able to win ga.

    If you collect and hear everything to g7 and can't use it, that's on you.

    There is plenty of incentive to get several teams to g12 that this is not a surprise. For hstr, you need g12 teams to do well and most of those teams are also good in ga. The chewie event and 3PO events required higher gear both on teams that were good in ga. Tb combat has required higher geared teams to complete on the last tier for over a year now. Tw has req good teams (maxed out is better) for nearly a year.

    So the writing has been on the wall that to do well endgame, you need a pretty deep roster of g12 teams. If you ignored all that and collected and just geared everything to g7 that's on you.

    Not sure where I said anything about "gear 7". I only stated 7 star characters. And of course CG wants us to collect and max out every character. That still makes someone a collector. Lastly, just because you have a fully maxed roster doesn't mean you have any better of a chance to win GA. Why? Because you're facing other players with a fully maxed roster too. I still did 2-1 in each GA so I was able to win. I just had one opponent that I messed up my attacks with and the other I just couldn't get past a couple of his teams because they were too strong for me (in the 3v3 version). 4-2 is decent enough I'd say.

    Again, GA has nothing to do with "end game" because it is setup to accommodate all levels of player. Having Gear 12 characters or not is only an issue when you are a collector vs someone who is focused on only certain teams. TB is another incentive to increase your roster, especially toons you don't use because they will end up being needed in platoons. But, that's got nothing to do with the discussion here. (I've specifically 7*'d characters so that we can fill platoons in TB and that's all they are there for.)

    Being a super focused player on only certain teams gives you a better chance in GA because it is solely based on "GP". There should be other parameters that come into account for matchmaking, like zeta count, gear 12 count, and so on.

    I just don't get why, as you did in your response, there is such a quick response to always say, "That's your fault dude!" to a player who has a challenge, or can't accomplish something in this game. Yes, I play the way I play, I collect how I want to collect. I do my best to stay on target. But just because I bring up an issue and provide an alternate point of view doesn't mean there's a need to throw in the "well you aren't playing right, that's your fault!" stuff. Especially when you misread what I stated. :wink:

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    Fear_77 wrote: »
    This may seem it bit out there..but what if they only took into account the top 1/3 or 1/4 (or some other fraction) of our rosters? This would only include toons that have serious recent investment in it for gear, omegas, zetas. This may help with being grouped with people that have 25 more g12s or 20 less g12s than oneself.

    Then ppl would complain about why the rest of the roster wasn't included. Or tat their opponent is vastly different gp.. Or ships.. Or mods.. Or any number of other things.
    In the end, total gp is the broadest and most general way to match two players' total investments into the game. Which is good..

    The whole point of this thread is to try and figure out how it is calculated, or if it needs to be updated since all the changes like 12.5+ And 6 dot mods and stuff.

    The system never seemed weighted correctly for any "effective rating" vs usefulness from a player perspective (i.e.- combat usefulness). It always seemed to be more of a total investment rated from in game usefulness (i.e. - where they can be used).

    But would redistribution of the weighted score really help?

    7* leading to g12 leading to 6 dot mods, makes 7* really important in the grand scheme, so they may have been thinking about that and not just usefulness in raids and all phases of TB.

    I'm honestly not sure what you are saying here..
    So you're agreeing that it's a measurement of investment, but not accurate for usefulness right?
    Even So, is there an accurate formula or breakdown of how it's calculated? Since it's applied to every toon, and the basis of the matchmaking system, couldn't that be useful information for players to have?

    I agree it is A measure of investment, but as far as anything else it shows, there is nothing useful to gain from comparing that number at a more granular level. (Which is why I think it can be good for broad matchmaking, because its arbitrary)

    The number does nothing for comparing a team or a toon.

    The number is purely, how many stars, how many levels, what abilities have been upgraded(and how many does that toon have), what gear and does that toon have mods(which level mods)

    Each of those values is static, whether it is CLS or CUP (which makes it good for broad matchmaking), i.e. - lvl 84 on each toon adds the same GP...ext.

    But my question is does changing what is weighted and how really change the end effectiveness of the system when it comes to match making? The system needs to remain unbiased to allow for players choices to show through. If a player can make a team of older toons work to win a match, why should they be scored differently than 5 newer toons? Should the dev team really be in charge of weighting our choices as players?

    Weighting stars more importantly than high end gear, does that make sense? Does changing it make things different?

    Well, no. If the goal is to provide a general level of investment into a toon like that, then it's doing pretty well so far. I think so, at least. Stars do seem to weigh much more heavily than other factors tho, but I've seen now how many of the toons stats increase with each star, so it seems ok to me.

    My issue with it is that we can't figure out how to reverse engineer the gp results. I'm very curious to see how the system actually adds in things like gear and stars, and how those values compare.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »

    Weighting stars more importantly than high end gear, does that make sense? Does changing it make things different?

    If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854
    Protection- 32212
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 3098
    Armor- 34.52

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680
    Protection- 8053
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1643
    Armor- 21.54

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686
    Protection- 0
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1513
    Armor- 21.25

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432
    Protection- 24159
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 2045
    Armor- 21.34

    So I added the important stats here, it's pretty easy to tell which are improved mostly by gear (speed, protection, armor). Also the impact stars add to stats like health. Would love to know why, but still.

    So the only benefit I get from taking mine to 7* is more health, physical damage, and armor really.. Or I could stay 600k below. 👀
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Whatelse73 wrote: »

    Being a super focused player on only certain teams gives you a better chance in GA because it is solely based on "GP". There should be other parameters that come into account for matchmaking, like zeta count, gear 12 count, and so on.

    I just don't get why, as you did in your response, there is such a quick response to always say, "That's your fault dude!" to a player who has a challenge, or can't accomplish something in this game. Yes, I play the way I play, I collect how I want to collect. I do my best to stay on target. But just because I bring up an issue and provide an alternate point of view doesn't mean there's a need to throw in the "well you aren't playing right, that's your fault!" stuff. Especially when you misread what I stated. :wink:

    I don't agree with this for basic reasons. "other parameters" would be patching things up and would be only temporary because it would fail to take any future changes into consideration. And all those other parameters are already involved in GP. My claim over this topic and many others is due to the inner values of GP calculation GP is currently unable to account for the real gameplay value of these parameters. And if it did you would get what you paid for in terms of GP...like a semi built toon being worth much less GP than a maxed one in rough words.

    This can be accomplished by either one of these approaches: stats impact of the GP values or going by the cost/investment how GP should be calculated. Both are difficult to calculate with a fair/universal ruleset.

  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854
    Protection- 32212
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 3098
    Armor- 34.52

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680
    Protection- 8053
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1643
    Armor- 21.54

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686
    Protection- 0
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1513
    Armor- 21.25

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432
    Protection- 24159
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 2045
    Armor- 21.34

    So I added the important stats here, it's pretty easy to tell which are improved mostly by gear (speed, protection, armor). Also the impact stars add to stats like health. Would love to know why, but still.

    So the only benefit I get from taking mine to 7* is more health, physical damage, and armor really.. Or I could stay 600k below. 👀

    Need moar :D . Btw I dunno how to go with these since in your examples both gear and star varies. I wanna take an averaged % change approach but there are 2 moving parts. Maybe this can help to isolate stars since only 7* will move the gear cap, rest is usable

    vj83icmux86h.png

    zpydrv9k1a1s.png

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854
    Protection- 32212
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 3098
    Armor- 34.52

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680
    Protection- 8053
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1643
    Armor- 21.54

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686
    Protection- 0
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1513
    Armor- 21.25

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432
    Protection- 24159
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 2045
    Armor- 21.34

    So I added the important stats here, it's pretty easy to tell which are improved mostly by gear (speed, protection, armor). Also the impact stars add to stats like health. Would love to know why, but still.

    So the only benefit I get from taking mine to 7* is more health, physical damage, and armor really.. Or I could stay 600k below. 👀

    Need moar :D . Btw I dunno how to go with these since in your examples both gear and star varies. I wanna take an averaged % change approach but there are 2 moving parts. Maybe this can help to isolate stars since only 7* will move the gear cap, rest is usable

    vj83icmux86h.png

    zpydrv9k1a1s.png

    the pic you pulled in, the "Power" label is the same across all star counts, which isn't accurate. But I'm not sure how accurate the other scaled values are yet. If they're right, it's help a lot.

    Yea I'm having trouble finding more different versions of vandor.. I'll keep looking tomorrow tho. Prob is, most of the'good' toons are maxed for everyone, so it's hard to find ones with different levels and gear. Lol

    But with the examples I have tho, you can see a hint of how major the stars play into both gp and toons general stats like health, etc.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854
    Protection- 32212
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 3098
    Armor- 34.52

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680
    Protection- 8053
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1643
    Armor- 21.54

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686
    Protection- 0
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1513
    Armor- 21.25

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432
    Protection- 24159
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 2045
    Armor- 21.34

    So I added the important stats here, it's pretty easy to tell which are improved mostly by gear (speed, protection, armor). Also the impact stars add to stats like health. Would love to know why, but still.

    So the only benefit I get from taking mine to 7* is more health, physical damage, and armor really.. Or I could stay 600k below. 👀

    Need moar :D . Btw I dunno how to go with these since in your examples both gear and star varies. I wanna take an averaged % change approach but there are 2 moving parts. Maybe this can help to isolate stars since only 7* will move the gear cap, rest is usable

    vj83icmux86h.png

    zpydrv9k1a1s.png

    the pic you pulled in, the "Power" label is the same across all star counts, which isn't accurate. But I'm not sure how accurate the other scaled values are yet. If they're right, it's help a lot.

    Yea I'm having trouble finding more different versions of vandor.. I'll keep looking tomorrow tho. Prob is, most of the'good' toons are maxed for everyone, so it's hard to find ones with different levels and gear. Lol

    But with the examples I have tho, you can see a hint of how major the stars play into both gp and toons general stats like health, etc.

    Hmm I was asking for all the character values for the ones you currently listed. Stars modify some values you didn't list as seen in the first screencap.

    Mine, zetad, g9 5 slots


    7r92ficyl4gx.png
    pghpbv6jbm0g.png
    rvaexl6r3qub.png
    u3t7djywql1r.png
    bh3j2d8eq7uv.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    np0dj4dhmr7z.png
    In comparing 4 vandor chewies:

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432

    Take from that what you will.. Lol

    Ok now trying to go through this list. It became useless once I noticed Strength, Agility, Intelligence are modifiers to base stats and they are not the base stats. Can you provide a full list as it's shown in the game? Also we need to deduct zetas from the GPs as they are delineating from a gear/level comparison.

    7*
    G12
    + Zeta
    = 20268 gp
    STR= 1183
    AGI= 729
    TAC= 636
    Health= 26854
    Protection- 32212
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 3098
    Armor- 34.52

    6*
    G8
    = 11179 gp
    STR= 835
    AGI= 551
    TAC= 479
    Health= 17680
    Protection- 8053
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1643
    Armor- 21.54

    7*
    G6
    = 10422 gp
    STR= 827
    AGI= 526
    TAC= 444
    Health= 16686
    Protection- 0
    Speed- 125
    Physical damage- 1513
    Armor- 21.25

    4*
    G11
    + Zeta
    = 14794 gp
    STR= 749
    AGI= 470
    TAC= 471
    Health= 16432
    Protection- 24159
    Speed- 131
    Physical damage- 2045
    Armor- 21.34

    So I added the important stats here, it's pretty easy to tell which are improved mostly by gear (speed, protection, armor). Also the impact stars add to stats like health. Would love to know why, but still.

    So the only benefit I get from taking mine to 7* is more health, physical damage, and armor really.. Or I could stay 600k below. 👀

    Need moar :D . Btw I dunno how to go with these since in your examples both gear and star varies. I wanna take an averaged % change approach but there are 2 moving parts. Maybe this can help to isolate stars since only 7* will move the gear cap, rest is usable

    vj83icmux86h.png

    zpydrv9k1a1s.png

    the pic you pulled in, the "Power" label is the same across all star counts, which isn't accurate. But I'm not sure how accurate the other scaled values are yet. If they're right, it's help a lot.

    Yea I'm having trouble finding more different versions of vandor.. I'll keep looking tomorrow tho. Prob is, most of the'good' toons are maxed for everyone, so it's hard to find ones with different levels and gear. Lol

    But with the examples I have tho, you can see a hint of how major the stars play into both gp and toons general stats like health, etc.

    Hmm I was asking for all the character values for the ones you currently listed. Stars modify some values you didn't list as seen in the first screencap.

    Mine, zetad, g9 5 slots


    7r92ficyl4gx.png
    pghpbv6jbm0g.png
    rvaexl6r3qub.png
    u3t7djywql1r.png
    bh3j2d8eq7uv.png

    Oh ok, here's the maxed out 7* g12, and below it the 7* g6. Figured the other two have different star counts, so I'll do them separate.
    zgn2n3w7v98s.png
    c9pz73ptx598.png
    1fpx3g04d931.png
    p1e2l8m3y60p.png
    7nekqnneh4uw.png
    ba5efzqb4jxr.png


    Ok here's mine
    scb50l0q0d01.png
    lbcxzi2ch874.png
    xx16a0tnnhip.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Since I gave you a 7* g6, here is a 3* g6 to compare. Power is 7804
    1i4mtbb3dcfy.png
    hvuvlqk849qv.png
    un96jwuxeq5z.png
  • Kyno. Stop deleting my posts. FF
  • Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    The problem with the current GA system is that CG wants us to be "collectors" because they make more money that way, but GA calculating GP to create opponents punishes collectors for having more characters unlocked, 7 star, geared up, etc., vs the person who has like 30 gear 12 characters. I know because I faced someone like that in my last GA. He had twice as many gear 12 characters as me, more zetas, but half his "roster" was level 1 characters that weren't even touched.

    I don't think CG wants you to collect all characters and gear them only to g7. They want you to go big and have a g12 7 star full roster. If you had that you'd be able to win ga.

    If you collect and hear everything to g7 and can't use it, that's on you.

    There is plenty of incentive to get several teams to g12 that this is not a surprise. For hstr, you need g12 teams to do well and most of those teams are also good in ga. The chewie event and 3PO events required higher gear both on teams that were good in ga. Tb combat has required higher geared teams to complete on the last tier for over a year now. Tw has req good teams (maxed out is better) for nearly a year.

    So the writing has been on the wall that to do well endgame, you need a pretty deep roster of g12 teams. If you ignored all that and collected and just geared everything to g7 that's on you.

    Not sure where I said anything about "gear 7". I only stated 7 star characters. And of course CG wants us to collect and max out every character. That still makes someone a collector. Lastly, just because you have a fully maxed roster doesn't mean you have any better of a chance to win GA. Why? Because you're facing other players with a fully maxed roster too. I still did 2-1 in each GA so I was able to win. I just had one opponent that I messed up my attacks with and the other I just couldn't get past a couple of his teams because they were too strong for me (in the 3v3 version). 4-2 is decent enough I'd say.

    Again, GA has nothing to do with "end game" because it is setup to accommodate all levels of player. Having Gear 12 characters or not is only an issue when you are a collector vs someone who is focused on only certain teams. TB is another incentive to increase your roster, especially toons you don't use because they will end up being needed in platoons. But, that's got nothing to do with the discussion here. (I've specifically 7*'d characters so that we can fill platoons in TB and that's all they are there for.)

    Being a super focused player on only certain teams gives you a better chance in GA because it is solely based on "GP". There should be other parameters that come into account for matchmaking, like zeta count, gear 12 count, and so on.

    I just don't get why, as you did in your response, there is such a quick response to always say, "That's your fault dude!" to a player who has a challenge, or can't accomplish something in this game. Yes, I play the way I play, I collect how I want to collect. I do my best to stay on target. But just because I bring up an issue and provide an alternate point of view doesn't mean there's a need to throw in the "well you aren't playing right, that's your fault!" stuff. Especially when you misread what I stated. :wink:

    I was simply stating that ga does not discourage you to gear characters. It may discourage gearing to a certain level characters that aren't used a lot but you still need to gear characters. So I don't believe it goes against the devs wanting you to gear characters.

    And unless you are an ultra kracken, you can't get g12 on every character. As much as the devs would love everyone to spend that much, it doesn't happen. I used that as an example of the goal post the devs want not an ideal ga roster. Since we are not at maxed out rosters, we all make choices about what to gear up.

    Some choose to be competitive and some choose to be collectors. I haven't said that either choice is wrong. One does lead to more ga wins though. But if ga wins isn't important to you then do your thing of course. But don't complain on the forums about the consequences of your choices.

    Because ultimately, the choices you make in building your roster determine your likelihood of winning ga far more than the matchmaking does.
  • No_Try
    4051 posts Member
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    Whatelse73 wrote: »
    The problem with the current GA system is that CG wants us to be "collectors" because they make more money that way, but GA calculating GP to create opponents punishes collectors for having more characters unlocked, 7 star, geared up, etc., vs the person who has like 30 gear 12 characters. I know because I faced someone like that in my last GA. He had twice as many gear 12 characters as me, more zetas, but half his "roster" was level 1 characters that weren't even touched.

    I don't think CG wants you to collect all characters and gear them only to g7. They want you to go big and have a g12 7 star full roster. If you had that you'd be able to win ga.

    If you collect and hear everything to g7 and can't use it, that's on you.

    There is plenty of incentive to get several teams to g12 that this is not a surprise. For hstr, you need g12 teams to do well and most of those teams are also good in ga. The chewie event and 3PO events required higher gear both on teams that were good in ga. Tb combat has required higher geared teams to complete on the last tier for over a year now. Tw has req good teams (maxed out is better) for nearly a year.

    So the writing has been on the wall that to do well endgame, you need a pretty deep roster of g12 teams. If you ignored all that and collected and just geared everything to g7 that's on you.

    Not sure where I said anything about "gear 7". I only stated 7 star characters. And of course CG wants us to collect and max out every character. That still makes someone a collector. Lastly, just because you have a fully maxed roster doesn't mean you have any better of a chance to win GA. Why? Because you're facing other players with a fully maxed roster too. I still did 2-1 in each GA so I was able to win. I just had one opponent that I messed up my attacks with and the other I just couldn't get past a couple of his teams because they were too strong for me (in the 3v3 version). 4-2 is decent enough I'd say.

    Again, GA has nothing to do with "end game" because it is setup to accommodate all levels of player. Having Gear 12 characters or not is only an issue when you are a collector vs someone who is focused on only certain teams. TB is another incentive to increase your roster, especially toons you don't use because they will end up being needed in platoons. But, that's got nothing to do with the discussion here. (I've specifically 7*'d characters so that we can fill platoons in TB and that's all they are there for.)

    Being a super focused player on only certain teams gives you a better chance in GA because it is solely based on "GP". There should be other parameters that come into account for matchmaking, like zeta count, gear 12 count, and so on.

    I just don't get why, as you did in your response, there is such a quick response to always say, "That's your fault dude!" to a player who has a challenge, or can't accomplish something in this game. Yes, I play the way I play, I collect how I want to collect. I do my best to stay on target. But just because I bring up an issue and provide an alternate point of view doesn't mean there's a need to throw in the "well you aren't playing right, that's your fault!" stuff. Especially when you misread what I stated. :wink:

    I was simply stating that ga does not discourage you to gear characters. It may discourage gearing to a certain level characters that aren't used a lot but you still need to gear characters. So I don't believe it goes against the devs wanting you to gear characters.

    And unless you are an ultra kracken, you can't get g12 on every character. As much as the devs would love everyone to spend that much, it doesn't happen. I used that as an example of the goal post the devs want not an ideal ga roster. Since we are not at maxed out rosters, we all make choices about what to gear up.

    Some choose to be competitive and some choose to be collectors. I haven't said that either choice is wrong. One does lead to more ga wins though. But if ga wins isn't important to you then do your thing of course. But don't complain on the forums about the consequences of your choices.

    Because ultimately, the choices you make in building your roster determine your likelihood of winning ga far more than the matchmaking does.

    Where are those collectors? I've yet to see anyone who says "hey dude, I just like collecting, I don't care about being competetive". You seem to be inflating a fringe case to a norm and make an argument based on that. When you check my roster and see that I have most toons collected, do you think it's because I'm a collector?
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