When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
+168 is slightly better than +150 speed? Four sets over +150 is slightly better than one set of 150?
Your definition of slightly is very different than my definition of slightly.
It would be impossible for you to close the speed gap I have over you in a short period of time. I would be surprised if you ever close it. By the time you improve, I will have likely increased that margin.
The mod shop was complete garbage until they reworked it in 2018. Even then, I only use it for highly targeted mods. Virtually all of your mods should come from farming.
You should have been doing three refreshes a day every day, going back to the days of cantina energy. Being low on credits isn't much of an excuse.
The simple fact is you claimed we have been farming mods for the same period of time. And that is clearly false.
I would guess that I have more mods sitting in my inventory that you would slice while I choose not to. I probably have 30-40 +5 green that I will only slice if I need to find a specific secondary to go with speed. And probably 20 +10 blue that I hold onto for the same reason.
You're being less selective on the mods you slice, or else you would have more similar results.
But hey, I get it. It's the internet. And some people would rather slam their **** in a car door than admit they are wrong.
As I said you are only focusing on a few mods you have better than me but not the entire span of them which is what matters for GAC. i.e. try to meet the bh team of a kraken with mods I exemplified above. All of a sudden all counters you've been using all along will start to crumble. Each team you have to fight on offense becomes a wall due to non-arena mod difference they have over you.
Here's a dare though. Since you are claiming the time I played over you should make a significant difference (which I couldn't take advantage of by your claim) find me some other early f2p that has anything close to 350 +10s. I'll be happy to meet them and learn from them. Until then, my claim that we are both very close to f2p mod doability stands.
Just to be clear, you think that you have more depth or comparable depth because you think you have more +10 mods than I have?
Like I said, I don’t equip mods I don’t need. Here are my unequipped mods over 10. There’s a handful over 15. I count 97. Which makes my total 308.
Your assumption that I just got lucky on high end mods is wrong. I farm a larger volume of mods and I’m more selective on slicing.
Mod mods are better because I’m better at farming mods. But by all means, keep doing what you’re doing 😂
You only confirmed me by also showcasing the edge of f2p doability is low 300 10+s. In the meantime I went through many f2p mods. Here's one which I can supply the ally code only with pm. I wonder why he has much more top end mods than you (and naturally me), maybe you should call him for a lesson how to get them, because this is not how statistics work and one gets very low percentage events simply by -doing it the right way-.
Nothing you’ve said has been confirmed as fact. I’ve playing for less than two years. I’m likely near the upper limit for f2p players at my account age, but as we’ve already established, your account is not the same age.
You have been farming mods for a minimum of eight months longer. And realistically for a a year longer, given the time it took new players to level up and build the teams needed to farm mods.
Given the extra time you’ve had, your mods should be better than mine. They are not. To anyone comparing our mods, they would likely assume I was the one who had been farming mods for an extra year.
The results speak for themselves. Your words are just words.
Everything I've said so far is supported by fact, you are just misreading what I write purposefully and took it to a hugely off topic direction. If you calm down and re-read from a few pages back our discussion, you'll see that. I bet 3rd party readers are also aware of that.
I never claimed I have better mods than you, nor do I care since we played a match we are on even terms on mods, your uber mod farming won't change the outcome. My track record on GA and GAC shows that. I only lost to player that had a huge mod disparity with me so far, 4 of them.
Do you want me to repeat my dare? Please do find my that hypothetical f2p with 400+ 10s which the playing time difference allows them to be. I keep showing you real world cases that I know are extremely good f2p and have been hugely successfull all along. Each people I personally know. You are the one running on assumptions.
You’ve made two claims.
1) We’ve had the same amount of time to farm mods. You do understand that eight months to a year longer is in no way the same amount of time, right?
2) That overall, our mods are comparable. My mods are far better than yours. Think of it in terms of how long it would take to equal my mods. A year? Forever? By the time you get a set to +168 and four sets over 150, where do you think my mods will be?
You seem to think you’re doing everything right and have no room to improve. Your results suggest the opposite.
1- I consider mods 2.0 where the real climb for mods begin. I based my claim on that. Some players already had vast span of mods before 2.0 since they were spenders. Neither of us are like that, we both entered that era with mods that dwarves compared to what we got since then. I'm willing to bet your mods were better than me at that time since I wasn't paying attention to mods before 2.0 as I already said. I don't accept your excuse to call it unfair that MM matches you with players who played longer. You are free to ask for that kind of MM which checks playing time as the primary filter and matches you that way. You have no idea how far whales with the same starting time as you are now. You are only talking about a single squad arena shard. I presented you with a whale from mine.
2- Your mods are slightly better, nothing to write home about as you keep thumping your chest, neither that I denied that fact, nor is the difference enough to make it certain on a match before it's played. However some matches are decided that way, when you bot yourself with your opponent, simply looking at the mod chart reveals the outcome: W/L. You and me are not one of those, if I got an opponent with otherwise comparable roster and your mod set, I go for the win. We have a comparable mod set span in it's entirety, I stand by my claim.
I don't care about the few god mods you have over me, I've shown you an f2p that has much more difference on that part over you than you have with me. Anything to say about that, he must have gotten those before you started playing?
Mods were the most important part of the game since they were introduced. The fact that you ignored them for so long explains a lot. I did three cantina refreshes a day every day since I could farm mods, so I probably passed you before mods 2.0.
Players who concentrated on mods before the rework got a huge boost with slicing. Players who didn’t fell further behind.
If you can find one other person who thinks my mods are only slightly better, I’d love to meet them.
As far as matchmaking goes, it isn’t fair to match much older accounts against newer accounts because it creates a significant zeta advantage. Every one of my opponents has 10-15 more zetas than I have. And because they have had longer to farm mods, it negates some of the advantage I built by concentrating on them from the start.
But the biggest flaw in matchmaking is that it doesn’t include a large portion of viable teams. My current opponent has 47 more g11 toons that are excluded from matchmaking. If they don’t count in matchmaking, they shouldn’t be allowed to use them.
They need to expand the parameters to capture those teams in matchmaking.
I already agreed with you that if this -imo redundant- GP filter in the algo is to kept it should be enhanced.
To sum up by adding you said you have 100 more 10+s, here is what the comparison looks like, feel free to revise:
311 - 278 10s %10.6 difference for you
74 - 76 15+s %2.6 difference for me
16 - 11 20+s %45 difference for you, worth a toon of mods)
3 - 0 25+s
I'll just put the f2p you ignored last time for flair, no idea how many unequipped he has:
I can show you where my mod distribution falls within the competetive f2p (2 of them actually) guild I'm in by pm. The highest one is where I claim it's at. The 310 10+ line. By all means find the secret f2p who have done better though.
The point you're missing (repeatedly) is I don't farm for +15-20 mods. If a mod doesn't hit +15 by the time it's blue, I move on. That greatly increases my odds of getting +20 and +25 mods. In the time we've been arguing, I've rolled another +22. Must be luck.
Very cool, you have a total of 7 mods to show for it over me. Oh now 8.
You convinced me. 55% more +20 mods suddenly seems insignificant. I’ll just switch to farming mods haphazardly and chalk my results up to luck.
Ok good luck beating your opponents with 8 god mods, it only takes 1 good team after all.
To be fair, I have more speed secondaries than you across the board. And at least 20 fewer toons to equip for GA. But who’s counting?
Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. He had 600k and 11 zetas on me. I needed the luck.
Nice win! I still can't agree on the 600k on you tho lol
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
+168 is slightly better than +150 speed? Four sets over +150 is slightly better than one set of 150?
Your definition of slightly is very different than my definition of slightly.
It would be impossible for you to close the speed gap I have over you in a short period of time. I would be surprised if you ever close it. By the time you improve, I will have likely increased that margin.
The mod shop was complete garbage until they reworked it in 2018. Even then, I only use it for highly targeted mods. Virtually all of your mods should come from farming.
You should have been doing three refreshes a day every day, going back to the days of cantina energy. Being low on credits isn't much of an excuse.
The simple fact is you claimed we have been farming mods for the same period of time. And that is clearly false.
I would guess that I have more mods sitting in my inventory that you would slice while I choose not to. I probably have 30-40 +5 green that I will only slice if I need to find a specific secondary to go with speed. And probably 20 +10 blue that I hold onto for the same reason.
You're being less selective on the mods you slice, or else you would have more similar results.
But hey, I get it. It's the internet. And some people would rather slam their **** in a car door than admit they are wrong.
As I said you are only focusing on a few mods you have better than me but not the entire span of them which is what matters for GAC. i.e. try to meet the bh team of a kraken with mods I exemplified above. All of a sudden all counters you've been using all along will start to crumble. Each team you have to fight on offense becomes a wall due to non-arena mod difference they have over you.
Here's a dare though. Since you are claiming the time I played over you should make a significant difference (which I couldn't take advantage of by your claim) find me some other early f2p that has anything close to 350 +10s. I'll be happy to meet them and learn from them. Until then, my claim that we are both very close to f2p mod doability stands.
Just to be clear, you think that you have more depth or comparable depth because you think you have more +10 mods than I have?
Like I said, I don’t equip mods I don’t need. Here are my unequipped mods over 10. There’s a handful over 15. I count 97. Which makes my total 308.
Your assumption that I just got lucky on high end mods is wrong. I farm a larger volume of mods and I’m more selective on slicing.
Mod mods are better because I’m better at farming mods. But by all means, keep doing what you’re doing 😂
You only confirmed me by also showcasing the edge of f2p doability is low 300 10+s. In the meantime I went through many f2p mods. Here's one which I can supply the ally code only with pm. I wonder why he has much more top end mods than you (and naturally me), maybe you should call him for a lesson how to get them, because this is not how statistics work and one gets very low percentage events simply by -doing it the right way-.
Nothing you’ve said has been confirmed as fact. I’ve playing for less than two years. I’m likely near the upper limit for f2p players at my account age, but as we’ve already established, your account is not the same age.
You have been farming mods for a minimum of eight months longer. And realistically for a a year longer, given the time it took new players to level up and build the teams needed to farm mods.
Given the extra time you’ve had, your mods should be better than mine. They are not. To anyone comparing our mods, they would likely assume I was the one who had been farming mods for an extra year.
The results speak for themselves. Your words are just words.
Everything I've said so far is supported by fact, you are just misreading what I write purposefully and took it to a hugely off topic direction. If you calm down and re-read from a few pages back our discussion, you'll see that. I bet 3rd party readers are also aware of that.
I never claimed I have better mods than you, nor do I care since we played a match we are on even terms on mods, your uber mod farming won't change the outcome. My track record on GA and GAC shows that. I only lost to player that had a huge mod disparity with me so far, 4 of them.
Do you want me to repeat my dare? Please do find my that hypothetical f2p with 400+ 10s which the playing time difference allows them to be. I keep showing you real world cases that I know are extremely good f2p and have been hugely successfull all along. Each people I personally know. You are the one running on assumptions.
You’ve made two claims.
1) We’ve had the same amount of time to farm mods. You do understand that eight months to a year longer is in no way the same amount of time, right?
2) That overall, our mods are comparable. My mods are far better than yours. Think of it in terms of how long it would take to equal my mods. A year? Forever? By the time you get a set to +168 and four sets over 150, where do you think my mods will be?
You seem to think you’re doing everything right and have no room to improve. Your results suggest the opposite.
1- I consider mods 2.0 where the real climb for mods begin. I based my claim on that. Some players already had vast span of mods before 2.0 since they were spenders. Neither of us are like that, we both entered that era with mods that dwarves compared to what we got since then. I'm willing to bet your mods were better than me at that time since I wasn't paying attention to mods before 2.0 as I already said. I don't accept your excuse to call it unfair that MM matches you with players who played longer. You are free to ask for that kind of MM which checks playing time as the primary filter and matches you that way. You have no idea how far whales with the same starting time as you are now. You are only talking about a single squad arena shard. I presented you with a whale from mine.
2- Your mods are slightly better, nothing to write home about as you keep thumping your chest, neither that I denied that fact, nor is the difference enough to make it certain on a match before it's played. However some matches are decided that way, when you bot yourself with your opponent, simply looking at the mod chart reveals the outcome: W/L. You and me are not one of those, if I got an opponent with otherwise comparable roster and your mod set, I go for the win. We have a comparable mod set span in it's entirety, I stand by my claim.
I don't care about the few god mods you have over me, I've shown you an f2p that has much more difference on that part over you than you have with me. Anything to say about that, he must have gotten those before you started playing?
Mods were the most important part of the game since they were introduced. The fact that you ignored them for so long explains a lot. I did three cantina refreshes a day every day since I could farm mods, so I probably passed you before mods 2.0.
Players who concentrated on mods before the rework got a huge boost with slicing. Players who didn’t fell further behind.
If you can find one other person who thinks my mods are only slightly better, I’d love to meet them.
As far as matchmaking goes, it isn’t fair to match much older accounts against newer accounts because it creates a significant zeta advantage. Every one of my opponents has 10-15 more zetas than I have. And because they have had longer to farm mods, it negates some of the advantage I built by concentrating on them from the start.
But the biggest flaw in matchmaking is that it doesn’t include a large portion of viable teams. My current opponent has 47 more g11 toons that are excluded from matchmaking. If they don’t count in matchmaking, they shouldn’t be allowed to use them.
They need to expand the parameters to capture those teams in matchmaking.
I already agreed with you that if this -imo redundant- GP filter in the algo is to kept it should be enhanced.
To sum up by adding you said you have 100 more 10+s, here is what the comparison looks like, feel free to revise:
311 - 278 10s %10.6 difference for you
74 - 76 15+s %2.6 difference for me
16 - 11 20+s %45 difference for you, worth a toon of mods)
3 - 0 25+s
I'll just put the f2p you ignored last time for flair, no idea how many unequipped he has:
I can show you where my mod distribution falls within the competetive f2p (2 of them actually) guild I'm in by pm. The highest one is where I claim it's at. The 310 10+ line. By all means find the secret f2p who have done better though.
The point you're missing (repeatedly) is I don't farm for +15-20 mods. If a mod doesn't hit +15 by the time it's blue, I move on. That greatly increases my odds of getting +20 and +25 mods. In the time we've been arguing, I've rolled another +22. Must be luck.
Very cool, you have a total of 7 mods to show for it over me. Oh now 8.
You convinced me. 55% more +20 mods suddenly seems insignificant. I’ll just switch to farming mods haphazardly and chalk my results up to luck.
Ok good luck beating your opponents with 8 god mods, it only takes 1 good team after all.
To be fair, I have more speed secondaries than you across the board. And at least 20 fewer toons to equip for GA. But who’s counting?
Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. He had 600k and 11 zetas on me. I needed the luck.
You didn't show us any of the other parameters, neither your or your opponents account. Seems the mm is working fine as you are still getting the wins somehow, it should be ok as long as you are the one winning, right?
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
So to sum up your argument, we've been farming mods for the same period of time. Despite the fact that mods were in the game for 13 months before I started playing.
And your mods are just as good as mine. Despite the fact that your fastest set is 18 slower than my fastest set. And I have four sets that are faster than your fastest.
But why am I stating facts? Your opinion clearly isn't based on or supported by facts. You simply say something that's demonstrably false then stick to it because that's preferable to learning something. Even when that something would benefit you.
No your mods are slightly better than mine, but in it's entirety our full span of mods are very comparable to eachother, and both of us are very close to what's f2p doable with mods. The difference between your mods are mine make for a very fair match where mods are not the deciding factor on the outcome.
You are representing it as if this is one flat timeline where all the underlying conditions in the game have been the same.The time I played longer than you (downtime started 2 months after haat release, so should be within that period you guessed) there was a credit crunch and we weren't getting mods in spades. Everyone was trying to have one arena teams worth of them primarily. The process of getting that sped up so much later on and our previously worthless mods became worthy again after mods 2.0 where both of us have been active. I have more mods in stock to slice through than you probably, whereas you'll deplete them and will have to use your refills to farm more of them before me. Naturally I'll stop slicing them at some point which is not profitable anymore for the mats used on them and get to farming again.
If you check my swgoh.gg and current arena team with mods on them, you'll see how easily it's for me to close that gap that only allows you a few more better modded toons, which I also use to beat full g13 dr/malak teams on GAC left and right while able to leave mine on defense.
When my opponent has beyond 400 10+s and rest corresponding to that number, that's something else entirely which was what I was trying to tell you all along.
I'm already doing it like you told me to. I don't understand why you are assuming I'm slicing +4,+5 speed sec purples to gold which is not the case. Currently I'm on +11 purples for example.
+168 is slightly better than +150 speed? Four sets over +150 is slightly better than one set of 150?
Your definition of slightly is very different than my definition of slightly.
It would be impossible for you to close the speed gap I have over you in a short period of time. I would be surprised if you ever close it. By the time you improve, I will have likely increased that margin.
The mod shop was complete garbage until they reworked it in 2018. Even then, I only use it for highly targeted mods. Virtually all of your mods should come from farming.
You should have been doing three refreshes a day every day, going back to the days of cantina energy. Being low on credits isn't much of an excuse.
The simple fact is you claimed we have been farming mods for the same period of time. And that is clearly false.
I would guess that I have more mods sitting in my inventory that you would slice while I choose not to. I probably have 30-40 +5 green that I will only slice if I need to find a specific secondary to go with speed. And probably 20 +10 blue that I hold onto for the same reason.
You're being less selective on the mods you slice, or else you would have more similar results.
But hey, I get it. It's the internet. And some people would rather slam their **** in a car door than admit they are wrong.
As I said you are only focusing on a few mods you have better than me but not the entire span of them which is what matters for GAC. i.e. try to meet the bh team of a kraken with mods I exemplified above. All of a sudden all counters you've been using all along will start to crumble. Each team you have to fight on offense becomes a wall due to non-arena mod difference they have over you.
Here's a dare though. Since you are claiming the time I played over you should make a significant difference (which I couldn't take advantage of by your claim) find me some other early f2p that has anything close to 350 +10s. I'll be happy to meet them and learn from them. Until then, my claim that we are both very close to f2p mod doability stands.
Just to be clear, you think that you have more depth or comparable depth because you think you have more +10 mods than I have?
Like I said, I don’t equip mods I don’t need. Here are my unequipped mods over 10. There’s a handful over 15. I count 97. Which makes my total 308.
Your assumption that I just got lucky on high end mods is wrong. I farm a larger volume of mods and I’m more selective on slicing.
Mod mods are better because I’m better at farming mods. But by all means, keep doing what you’re doing 😂
You only confirmed me by also showcasing the edge of f2p doability is low 300 10+s. In the meantime I went through many f2p mods. Here's one which I can supply the ally code only with pm. I wonder why he has much more top end mods than you (and naturally me), maybe you should call him for a lesson how to get them, because this is not how statistics work and one gets very low percentage events simply by -doing it the right way-.
Nothing you’ve said has been confirmed as fact. I’ve playing for less than two years. I’m likely near the upper limit for f2p players at my account age, but as we’ve already established, your account is not the same age.
You have been farming mods for a minimum of eight months longer. And realistically for a a year longer, given the time it took new players to level up and build the teams needed to farm mods.
Given the extra time you’ve had, your mods should be better than mine. They are not. To anyone comparing our mods, they would likely assume I was the one who had been farming mods for an extra year.
The results speak for themselves. Your words are just words.
Everything I've said so far is supported by fact, you are just misreading what I write purposefully and took it to a hugely off topic direction. If you calm down and re-read from a few pages back our discussion, you'll see that. I bet 3rd party readers are also aware of that.
I never claimed I have better mods than you, nor do I care since we played a match we are on even terms on mods, your uber mod farming won't change the outcome. My track record on GA and GAC shows that. I only lost to player that had a huge mod disparity with me so far, 4 of them.
Do you want me to repeat my dare? Please do find my that hypothetical f2p with 400+ 10s which the playing time difference allows them to be. I keep showing you real world cases that I know are extremely good f2p and have been hugely successfull all along. Each people I personally know. You are the one running on assumptions.
You’ve made two claims.
1) We’ve had the same amount of time to farm mods. You do understand that eight months to a year longer is in no way the same amount of time, right?
2) That overall, our mods are comparable. My mods are far better than yours. Think of it in terms of how long it would take to equal my mods. A year? Forever? By the time you get a set to +168 and four sets over 150, where do you think my mods will be?
You seem to think you’re doing everything right and have no room to improve. Your results suggest the opposite.
1- I consider mods 2.0 where the real climb for mods begin. I based my claim on that. Some players already had vast span of mods before 2.0 since they were spenders. Neither of us are like that, we both entered that era with mods that dwarves compared to what we got since then. I'm willing to bet your mods were better than me at that time since I wasn't paying attention to mods before 2.0 as I already said. I don't accept your excuse to call it unfair that MM matches you with players who played longer. You are free to ask for that kind of MM which checks playing time as the primary filter and matches you that way. You have no idea how far whales with the same starting time as you are now. You are only talking about a single squad arena shard. I presented you with a whale from mine.
2- Your mods are slightly better, nothing to write home about as you keep thumping your chest, neither that I denied that fact, nor is the difference enough to make it certain on a match before it's played. However some matches are decided that way, when you bot yourself with your opponent, simply looking at the mod chart reveals the outcome: W/L. You and me are not one of those, if I got an opponent with otherwise comparable roster and your mod set, I go for the win. We have a comparable mod set span in it's entirety, I stand by my claim.
I don't care about the few god mods you have over me, I've shown you an f2p that has much more difference on that part over you than you have with me. Anything to say about that, he must have gotten those before you started playing?
Mods were the most important part of the game since they were introduced. The fact that you ignored them for so long explains a lot. I did three cantina refreshes a day every day since I could farm mods, so I probably passed you before mods 2.0.
Players who concentrated on mods before the rework got a huge boost with slicing. Players who didn’t fell further behind.
If you can find one other person who thinks my mods are only slightly better, I’d love to meet them.
As far as matchmaking goes, it isn’t fair to match much older accounts against newer accounts because it creates a significant zeta advantage. Every one of my opponents has 10-15 more zetas than I have. And because they have had longer to farm mods, it negates some of the advantage I built by concentrating on them from the start.
But the biggest flaw in matchmaking is that it doesn’t include a large portion of viable teams. My current opponent has 47 more g11 toons that are excluded from matchmaking. If they don’t count in matchmaking, they shouldn’t be allowed to use them.
They need to expand the parameters to capture those teams in matchmaking.
I already agreed with you that if this -imo redundant- GP filter in the algo is to kept it should be enhanced.
To sum up by adding you said you have 100 more 10+s, here is what the comparison looks like, feel free to revise:
311 - 278 10s %10.6 difference for you
74 - 76 15+s %2.6 difference for me
16 - 11 20+s %45 difference for you, worth a toon of mods)
3 - 0 25+s
I'll just put the f2p you ignored last time for flair, no idea how many unequipped he has:
I can show you where my mod distribution falls within the competetive f2p (2 of them actually) guild I'm in by pm. The highest one is where I claim it's at. The 310 10+ line. By all means find the secret f2p who have done better though.
The point you're missing (repeatedly) is I don't farm for +15-20 mods. If a mod doesn't hit +15 by the time it's blue, I move on. That greatly increases my odds of getting +20 and +25 mods. In the time we've been arguing, I've rolled another +22. Must be luck.
Very cool, you have a total of 7 mods to show for it over me. Oh now 8.
You convinced me. 55% more +20 mods suddenly seems insignificant. I’ll just switch to farming mods haphazardly and chalk my results up to luck.
Ok good luck beating your opponents with 8 god mods, it only takes 1 good team after all.
To be fair, I have more speed secondaries than you across the board. And at least 20 fewer toons to equip for GA. But who’s counting?
Anyway, thanks for the well wishes. He had 600k and 11 zetas on me. I needed the luck.
You didn't show us any of the other parameters, neither your or your opponents account. Seems the mm is working fine as you are still getting the wins somehow, it should be ok as long as you are the one winning, right?
I can beat anyone in your arena shard. Should they move me to a shard two years older so my shard mates don’t have to face me?
I beat him because the advantage I built fairly was enough to overcome the advantage CG handed to him. Namely mods.
I sometimes get matched with opponents with a 600k GP advantage, nearly equal mods, almost as strong top end teams, a dozen more zetas and 40+ more g11 toons. When that happens, all they have to do is set strong defenses and win on attrition. Considering they had up to a year longer to build their roster, that’s not remotely fair.
I think you are confusing Grand Arena with Squad Arena, they sound similar but are completely different modes in everything they consist of.
Here's one what's in my arena, let's match me with it, even the pertinent gp is close:
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
The only problem with that is that in this game, time and money are interchangeable to some extent. The slower farming players or ftp may face dolphins trying to catch up, but they haven't had as much time to farm mods or get zetas.
So to me, fair is an equal match, although I would prefer those who have the same win record to make it a real championship.
Take your match. Basically, you had 62 viable toons matched against his 67 viable toons with an extra ten zetas, but you use your much higher gear levels vs his zetas to pull off a win. You do focus on team development, like I said was key, although differently from me. The numbers on paper don't account for everything tho, so I get frustrated when ppl say it's literally impossible matchups, when it's a well matched total and the only difference is how (gear levels v zetas, etc).
Now I don't agree with straight gp matching, as we all saw how that turned out and very few enjoyed it, and only then cuz they were winning by landslides. But I don't think that matching based on top 80 is the last step either, they could expand based on the average#beyond what's required in the future, like top 90gp. But the primary focus for players still remains on team development.
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or if it’s accidental.
The point about older accounts is that they have a lot more zetas. One of the most powerful parts of the game. That and they have a huge GP advantage that more often than not sits in g11 toons that are not counted in matchmaking.
I’ve spelled that out for you probably a dozen times. But I fully expect you to ignore it yet again.
Wait, but you just beat a guy with ten more zetas?
And let's say they did matchmaking based on zetas, have you looked at the gp of your shard (all with the same start time)? Zetas will still vary based on tw, ga, challenges, luck until recently.. But make more of their gp totals. Money= times ti some extent, so you're arguing for a completely Pay to win system 😆💰
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or if it’s accidental.
The point about older accounts is that they have a lot more zetas. One of the most powerful parts of the game. That and they have a huge GP advantage that more often than not sits in g11 toons that are not counted in matchmaking.
I’ve spelled that out for you probably a dozen times. But I fully expect you to ignore it yet again.
Are we back to making herderofnerf only spehcul MM? There's no -a year older- account than me. Whatever you are proposing it has to apply to all players across the board. You avoided a perfectly clear question once again. So I'll ask once again, are you saying MM should match players that started in close times? Should there be any other qualifier?
I don't watch sports. Not interested in the least. Is the tournament logic the same across all sports? How do they determine which team is better so they match them with weak ones? Does it have anything to do with monies involved what goes into the teams?
You are just so much lolz, anyone who doesn't agree with you has a weak roster (for their gp=your abstract standart) now. And all 3 of us have a very good track record on this thing weirdly. And we, amongst many others also agree that top X should be extended. I've yet to see a player making an argument for "keep top X gp matching as is, don't extend it".
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or if it’s accidental.
The point about older accounts is that they have a lot more zetas. One of the most powerful parts of the game. That and they have a huge GP advantage that more often than not sits in g11 toons that are not counted in matchmaking.
I’ve spelled that out for you probably a dozen times. But I fully expect you to ignore it yet again.
Are we back to making herderofnerf only spehcul MM? There's no -a year older- account than me. Whatever you are proposing it has to apply to all players across the board. You avoided a perfectly clear question once again. So I'll ask once again, are you saying MM should match players that started in close times? Should there be any other qualifier?
I don't watch sports. Not interested in the least. Is the tournament logic the same across all sports? How do they determine which team is better so they match them with weak ones? Does it have anything to do with monies involved what goes into the teams?
I’m going with intentionally obtuse. I’ve got to give you the benefit of the doubt.
But for at least the tenth time, expand the relevant GP to capture truly relevant GP. That’s it.
If they do that, you won’t see accounts of drastically different ages matched against each other.
Pretty simple. Let’s see if you can come back one more time with something I didn’t say 😂
Yeah, I can. What determined -truly relevant gp-? How does account age have anything to do with GP? If account age reflected GP why does my squad arena players have GPs all over the place? Remember I listed you one such account that's 800k gp more than me. I'm a very high gp f2p and I can list you more from my arena which has way lower GPs than mine and uncomparably lower than that account. Did I succeed in changing your words to what they don't mean, where exactly did I do that?
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or if it’s accidental.
The point about older accounts is that they have a lot more zetas. One of the most powerful parts of the game. That and they have a huge GP advantage that more often than not sits in g11 toons that are not counted in matchmaking.
I’ve spelled that out for you probably a dozen times. But I fully expect you to ignore it yet again.
Wait, but you just beat a guy with ten more zetas?
And let's say they did matchmaking based on zetas, have you looked at the gp of your shard (all with the same start time)? Zetas will still vary based on tw, ga, challenges, luck until recently.. But make more of their gp totals. Money= times ti some extent, so you're arguing for a completely Pay to win system 😆💰
I get it. The matchmaking favors you because you have a weak roster for your GP. As a result, you’ll defend it to your dying breath.
But just for fun, how about you address what I said rather than responding to things I didn’t say?
I said they should include all GP that you could realistically use in matchmaking. Only counting the GP for defenses and first attacks doesn’t do that. It lets players with vastly higher GP set more strong teams on defense and still have equally strong teams for offense.
Expanding the relevant GP by 50% would eliminate that
Actually, it doesn't favor me any more than you, it is equal for everyone. Yay! It's balanced for all! Obviously you won your matchup, it favors you too.. Looks pretty equal to me.
And as to addressing your previous post, I did. Check the previous page, you must've missed it. Also, There's way more factors than you're considering, as per my last post
When you guys are finished comparing your ****... eh ... I mean mods, can you pull your pants back up and get back on topic: Grand Arena Championship
It was on topic at one point. He had a hard time beating players at his own GP. He said if if see only holes in his roster let him know and he’d farm those toons. I told him his weakness is mods. And he proceeded to argue that his mods are as good as they can be. I tired to tell him how to improve. And it turned into he’d rather die than admit he has anything to learn. So like I said, dumb argument.
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
I’ve been pretty clear with what I think is fair. Fair does not mean you have an equal chance to beat any given opponent. Fair means you had an equal opportunity to build a roster capable of beating your opponent.
Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria.
I think it would have been fair to base matchmaking on GP and let the different leagues sort the better players from the lesser players.
Within a few rounds, players with stronger rosters would move up to face other strong players. And weaker players would be left with weak players to face.
At that point, everyone has a chance to earn rewards at the level they have earned.
I don’t think CG will go to that. I never said they would. One way to fix the problem they created is to broaden the relevant GP to include the teams you would use for one more round of attacks. In my case, it would go from 60 to 90 and would capture the dozens of g11 toons my opponents have at their disposal. And you wouldn’t see drastically older accounts with a lot more zetas matched with younger accounts.
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
Because you can’t counter my argument, you invent one and argue against that?
That’s one way to argument in your own mind, and guess 😂
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
I’m not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or if it’s accidental.
The point about older accounts is that they have a lot more zetas. One of the most powerful parts of the game. That and they have a huge GP advantage that more often than not sits in g11 toons that are not counted in matchmaking.
I’ve spelled that out for you probably a dozen times. But I fully expect you to ignore it yet again.
Are we back to making herderofnerf only spehcul MM? There's no -a year older- account than me. Whatever you are proposing it has to apply to all players across the board. You avoided a perfectly clear question once again. So I'll ask once again, are you saying MM should match players that started in close times? Should there be any other qualifier?
I don't watch sports. Not interested in the least. Is the tournament logic the same across all sports? How do they determine which team is better so they match them with weak ones? Does it have anything to do with monies involved what goes into the teams?
I’m going with intentionally obtuse. I’ve got to give you the benefit of the doubt.
But for at least the tenth time, expand the relevant GP to capture truly relevant GP. That’s it.
If they do that, you won’t see accounts of drastically different ages matched against each other.
Pretty simple. Let’s see if you can come back one more time with something I didn’t say 😂
Yeah, I can. What determined -truly relevant gp-? How does account age have anything to do with GP? If account age reflected GP why does my squad arena players have GPs all over the place? Remember I listed you one such account that's 800k gp more than me. I'm a very high gp f2p and I can list you more from my arena which has way lower GPs than mine and uncomparably lower than that account. Did I succeed in changing your words to what they don't mean, where exactly did I do that?
Relevant GP should be any GP you can use. Only counting defenses and first attacks is arbitrary. It gives some players an unfair advantage when they have dozens of viable toons that are not counted against their relevant GP.
Expanding that by 50% would capture any GP you would realistically use.
Alternately, keep the matchmaking as it is and only let players deploy the maximum number of toons included in matchmaking. If only 60 toons count towards relevant GP, only allow 60 toons to be used.
%50 beyond current pertinent gp is also as arbitrary as current pertinent gp, it's not -truely relevant gp- whatsoever, i.e. most of the matches at my gp finishes in total wipes on both sides where we battle for banners and efficiency.
But once again I agree, extending it %25-50 beyond defense slots*2 would solve a lot problems. So we've been agreeing all along.
Do you even watch sports? If you do, you should understand how tournaments work.
The NCAA doesn’t make Kansas, Kentucky, Duke and UNC play each other in the opening rounds. They play lesser teams and face each other later. That’s how the leagues should work.
You also don’t give one team more players than another if they’re not as good. Maybe Duke can beat some crappy team 5 against 10. But that doesn’t mean they should have to.
This isn't the sweet (input a # w/o violation of copy right laws ) ..and to treat it as such is silly. There are so many other factors that determine this bracket. Yes low seeds have to go against higher seeds...but it is 100% skill based not RNG dependent. And mods (aka steroids) are not allowed in that championship. And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship . And after the first round the brackets start showing self correction which GAC fails to do. And when this self correction happens teams are much more closely matched. GAC ignores this. And randomly inputs basically the same teams that beat you the first time around because they lost a game keeping them from spot #1. It doesn't take in account and match those who lost all or only won 1 with others of the same record. And then rinse and repeat every week because it resets. A community college (less Zetas and meta toons) are not matched against big name college ( more Zetas) just because the students GPA ( SWGOH GP) match or are close to the same.
And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship .
Take off the tinfoil hat.
There is no evidence of deliberate mismatches, and every supposed mismatch we've seen has been the algorithm working precisely as advertised, pertinent GP matching pertinent GP. You can argue for refinements on what pertinent GP even is, and there are cases at high GP where the current pertinent GP structure is not a good matchmaking structure, but that's refinements going forward. Not a CG conspiracy to deliberately match F2Ps against stronger targets and spenders against weaker ones.
Tin foil hat has been removed..but I'm putting on some boots because (poop) is getting thick. Maybe you could use that gray matter that sits between your ears and use your eyes, figure out and see where it is all going and what pattern is being shown. And I don't recall claims of conspiracy in that statement. If anything it is CG not knowing how to make a balanced game mode and MM algorithms to keep the game enjoyable for all of it's community players.
And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship .
Take off the tinfoil hat.
There is no evidence of deliberate mismatches, and every supposed mismatch we've seen has been the algorithm working precisely as advertised, pertinent GP matching pertinent GP. You can argue for refinements on what pertinent GP even is, and there are cases at high GP where the current pertinent GP structure is not a good matchmaking structure, but that's refinements going forward. Not a CG conspiracy to deliberately match F2Ps against stronger targets and spenders against weaker ones.
Another one that doesn’t get it. So here’s GAC matching summary for dummies: Matching based on GP is stupid. End of story.
If I get matched against god-players because of a flawed algorithm I do the following now: set all my defenses with the weakest teams I have (level 1, 0 gear) and don’t attack my opponent at all. Why waste my valuable time. I encourage everyone to do the same. Let’s see how much fun the “oh so smart players with the really smart and totally greatly developed” rosters have playing against paper toons.
And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship .
Take off the tinfoil hat.
There is no evidence of deliberate mismatches, and every supposed mismatch we've seen has been the algorithm working precisely as advertised, pertinent GP matching pertinent GP. You can argue for refinements on what pertinent GP even is, and there are cases at high GP where the current pertinent GP structure is not a good matchmaking structure, but that's refinements going forward. Not a CG conspiracy to deliberately match F2Ps against stronger targets and spenders against weaker ones.
Another one that doesn’t get it. So here’s GAC matching summary for dummies: Matching based on GP is stupid. End of story.
If I get matched against god-players because of a flawed algorithm I do the following now: set all my defenses with the weakest teams I have (level 1, 0 gear) and don’t attack my opponent at all. Why waste my valuable time. I encourage everyone to do the same. Let’s see how much fun the “oh so smart players with the really smart and totally greatly developed” rosters have playing against paper toons.
You are granting them extreme banner advantage for the tourney, cool gift xD
And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship .
Take off the tinfoil hat.
There is no evidence of deliberate mismatches, and every supposed mismatch we've seen has been the algorithm working precisely as advertised, pertinent GP matching pertinent GP. You can argue for refinements on what pertinent GP even is, and there are cases at high GP where the current pertinent GP structure is not a good matchmaking structure, but that's refinements going forward. Not a CG conspiracy to deliberately match F2Ps against stronger targets and spenders against weaker ones.
Another one that doesn’t get it. So here’s GAC matching summary for dummies: Matching based on GP is stupid. End of story.
If I get matched against god-players because of a flawed algorithm I do the following now: set all my defenses with the weakest teams I have (level 1, 0 gear) and don’t attack my opponent at all. Why waste my valuable time. I encourage everyone to do the same. Let’s see how much fun the “oh so smart players with the really smart and totally greatly developed” rosters have playing against paper toons.
You are granting them extreme banner advantage for the tourney, cool gift xD
It doesn’t impact or change anything for me. And the way the rewards are currently structured it doesn’t have much impact either.
Replies
I don't have a hard time beating opponents at my gp as I said multiple times and as you insist misreading what I wrote and as my track record on both GA and GAC goes to show.
But let's bring this whole round about home, shall we?
You started how not fine this one is, but for example any match with your squad arena players would be fine (hence started at the same time)? Or are you saying you should only be matched with f2p from your squad arena so you both had the same time and same resources? Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your argument so I can go forth.
I'm just trying to find the perfect condition your proposed algo to be met. After all we need to make a global MM that holds for everyone.
Nice win! I still can't agree on the 600k on you tho lol
You didn't show us any of the other parameters, neither your or your opponents account. Seems the mm is working fine as you are still getting the wins somehow, it should be ok as long as you are the one winning, right?
Ah ok then. Since my account has opened in the 6th day of the game you are basically saying I can get matched in a league of first 7 top players that exists on swgoh.gg BUT you shouldn't be matched with someone where the parameters (the only ones you show us) align very decently. Your opponent has advantages on some fronts, you have advantages on others.
I wonder what you'd be thinking if they matched you only with good spender accounts that started at the time around you started, there would not be a single match you even remotely have a chance to win and that would be perfectly ok instead of seeking an MM which tries to align some parameters players have.
Argument concludes at this point.
I think you are confusing Grand Arena with Squad Arena, they sound similar but are completely different modes in everything they consist of.
Here's one what's in my arena, let's match me with it, even the pertinent gp is close:
Yeah I concluded this: matching players that started around the same time is fine from your statement "Matching players with accounts that are up to a year older does not meet that criteria." I specifically asked you for clarity on the previous post and that was all you came up with, something you don't want to happen which leaves behind the other thing you want to happen.
Naturally I'm also able to beat anyone in my squad arena including that account which is meaningless when GAC is concerned.
The only problem with that is that in this game, time and money are interchangeable to some extent. The slower farming players or ftp may face dolphins trying to catch up, but they haven't had as much time to farm mods or get zetas.
So to me, fair is an equal match, although I would prefer those who have the same win record to make it a real championship.
Take your match. Basically, you had 62 viable toons matched against his 67 viable toons with an extra ten zetas, but you use your much higher gear levels vs his zetas to pull off a win. You do focus on team development, like I said was key, although differently from me. The numbers on paper don't account for everything tho, so I get frustrated when ppl say it's literally impossible matchups, when it's a well matched total and the only difference is how (gear levels v zetas, etc).
Now I don't agree with straight gp matching, as we all saw how that turned out and very few enjoyed it, and only then cuz they were winning by landslides. But I don't think that matching based on top 80 is the last step either, they could expand based on the average#beyond what's required in the future, like top 90gp. But the primary focus for players still remains on team development.
Wait, but you just beat a guy with ten more zetas?
And let's say they did matchmaking based on zetas, have you looked at the gp of your shard (all with the same start time)? Zetas will still vary based on tw, ga, challenges, luck until recently.. But make more of their gp totals. Money= times ti some extent, so you're arguing for a completely Pay to win system 😆💰
Are we back to making herderofnerf only spehcul MM? There's no -a year older- account than me. Whatever you are proposing it has to apply to all players across the board. You avoided a perfectly clear question once again. So I'll ask once again, are you saying MM should match players that started in close times? Should there be any other qualifier?
I don't watch sports. Not interested in the least. Is the tournament logic the same across all sports? How do they determine which team is better so they match them with weak ones? Does it have anything to do with monies involved what goes into the teams?
Yeah, I can. What determined -truly relevant gp-? How does account age have anything to do with GP? If account age reflected GP why does my squad arena players have GPs all over the place? Remember I listed you one such account that's 800k gp more than me. I'm a very high gp f2p and I can list you more from my arena which has way lower GPs than mine and uncomparably lower than that account. Did I succeed in changing your words to what they don't mean, where exactly did I do that?
Actually, it doesn't favor me any more than you, it is equal for everyone. Yay! It's balanced for all! Obviously you won your matchup, it favors you too.. Looks pretty equal to me.
And as to addressing your previous post, I did. Check the previous page, you must've missed it. Also, There's way more factors than you're considering, as per my last post
%50 beyond current pertinent gp is also as arbitrary as current pertinent gp, it's not -truely relevant gp- whatsoever, i.e. most of the matches at my gp finishes in total wipes on both sides where we battle for banners and efficiency.
But once again I agree, extending it %25-50 beyond defense slots*2 would solve a lot problems. So we've been agreeing all along.
This isn't the sweet (input a # w/o violation of copy right laws ) ..and to treat it as such is silly. There are so many other factors that determine this bracket. Yes low seeds have to go against higher seeds...but it is 100% skill based not RNG dependent. And mods (aka steroids) are not allowed in that championship. And then the championship isn't mismatched purposely to clear the way for stronger schools to advance every championship . And after the first round the brackets start showing self correction which GAC fails to do. And when this self correction happens teams are much more closely matched. GAC ignores this. And randomly inputs basically the same teams that beat you the first time around because they lost a game keeping them from spot #1. It doesn't take in account and match those who lost all or only won 1 with others of the same record. And then rinse and repeat every week because it resets. A community college (less Zetas and meta toons) are not matched against big name college ( more Zetas) just because the students GPA ( SWGOH GP) match or are close to the same.
There is no evidence of deliberate mismatches, and every supposed mismatch we've seen has been the algorithm working precisely as advertised, pertinent GP matching pertinent GP. You can argue for refinements on what pertinent GP even is, and there are cases at high GP where the current pertinent GP structure is not a good matchmaking structure, but that's refinements going forward. Not a CG conspiracy to deliberately match F2Ps against stronger targets and spenders against weaker ones.
Another one that doesn’t get it. So here’s GAC matching summary for dummies: Matching based on GP is stupid. End of story.
If I get matched against god-players because of a flawed algorithm I do the following now: set all my defenses with the weakest teams I have (level 1, 0 gear) and don’t attack my opponent at all. Why waste my valuable time. I encourage everyone to do the same. Let’s see how much fun the “oh so smart players with the really smart and totally greatly developed” rosters have playing against paper toons.
You are granting them extreme banner advantage for the tourney, cool gift xD
It doesn’t impact or change anything for me. And the way the rewards are currently structured it doesn’t have much impact either.