so. this came from one of my discords and its 100% accurate.
"If SEE wasn’t a GL (like if he was a JKL level character) then the Gl restriction (referencing link) would make sense (especially in the theoretical verse where SEE is a JKL type event, since JKL’s lead doesn’t affect GLS then it’d make sense for SEE’s damage reduction to not work also)
But SEE IS a GL, so link should work on GLs, that’d basically be like if JML didn’t taunt against GLS, Rey’s lifeblood didn’t reduce GL’s damage or if SLKR didn’t gain ult charge when hitting GLS"
Link needs to be seriously looked at if SEE is to ever be viable in this game.
Arena wins and losses, in the end, dont mean much. There's ways around rey, jml, and slkr teams that are F2P friendly. SEE is the worst GL, doesn't deserve that tag, and is no better then gas or JKL.
So what's the official word? This has been raised since SEE's launch and is obviously a popular topic with lots to talk about but I'm seeing nothing from a dev perspective. @CG_Doja_Fett can we get an official word on whether anything's in the pipeline or not?
So what's the official word? This has been raised since SEE's launch and is obviously a popular topic with lots to talk about but I'm seeing nothing from a dev perspective. @CG_Doja_Fett can we get an official word on whether anything's in the pipeline or not?
Given their track record, silence on a decision this far down the track is indicative of “he’s not getting touched”.
Once again. Thats rey with jedi.
If rey adds in the scoundrel bros (han and chewie) wat will be dead before tank tech.
Alternatively Rey with full resistance would crap all over SEE. JTR would stop all protection regain with the undispelable healblock.
If anything this just proves the point that SEE link is a flawed ability.
These numbers do not apply to arena viability, where as far as I know Rey is generally bad against SLKR and probably JML without using Jedi?
Looking at the last GAC seasons stats (specifically 99% of the teams, ignoring the outliers because that takes you from one and a half pages of teams to 83 pages of teams) and there were 77631 Reys on defense, of which none used Han and 13367 (17.2%) used JTR. If you can beat 82% of the standard defensive Rey teams with just SEE/Wat thats still a highly effective team to use. This may change as information on SEE/Wat being able to do this spreads of course.
Its also not just Rey/Jedi that this works on. I have beaten Rey/RH Bros/Han/Chewy with it, though of course its 50/50 on whether Wat or SEE gets shot at the start.
Looks like it beats the 'standard' (21546 out of the 77631 defensive teams used this lineup) Resistance defense team pretty easily. No reason it shouldnt beat everything else that doesnt bring JTR or Han and honestly thats great if there is something that can be done to stop this **** duo with Wat nonsense both using and against SEE.
Once again. Thats rey with jedi.
If rey adds in the scoundrel bros (han and chewie) wat will be dead before tank tech.
Alternatively Rey with full resistance would crap all over SEE. JTR would stop all protection regain with the undispelable healblock.
If anything this just proves the point that SEE link is a flawed ability.
These numbers do not apply to arena viability, where as far as I know Rey is generally bad against SLKR and probably JML without using Jedi?
Looking at the last GAC seasons stats (specifically 99% of the teams, ignoring the outliers because that takes you from one and a half pages of teams to 83 pages of teams) and there were 77631 Reys on defense, of which none used Han and 13367 (17.2%) used JTR. If you can beat 82% of the standard defensive Rey teams with just SEE/Wat thats still a highly effective team to use. This may change as information on SEE/Wat being able to do this spreads of course.
Its also not just Rey/Jedi that this works on. I have beaten Rey/RH Bros/Han/Chewy with it, though of course its 50/50 on whether Wat or SEE gets shot at the start.
Looks like it beats the 'standard' (21546 out of the 77631 defensive teams used this lineup) Resistance defense team pretty easily. No reason it shouldnt beat everything else that doesnt bring JTR or Han and honestly thats great if there is something that can be done to stop this **** duo with Wat nonsense both using and against SEE.
In TW at a higher level Rey normally isn't set without JTR. Its to help stomp the vader counter.
In every single GAC I've been in that the opponent has set Rey... its ALWAYS with JTR as an assist.
This SEE duo is basicly arena only. Helpful, but for where it matters most (TW/GAC) only marginally useful.
RG, Sid, Maul, Savage, sassy, Krennic, DT(slightly), all need updates. Especially RG. They were specially made to fight jedi. They were the best of the best. Yet ingame... they're the worst of the worst.
There is a competing game (DSA) which regularly refreshes old toons. DSA globally launched few months ago!
Here's an idea... how about instead of ignoring taunt, applying link removes buffs. This could be a half step that could improve the flexibility of your strategy and reliability of some counters.
The counter point is obviously no one will do this because SEE+ Wat is better on defense than Vader + Watt. However, I don’t imagine players most players would want to leave only SEE + Watt on defense ether. The point people are making with Vader + Watt is there are several teams you can climb through and while SEE + Watt is more flexible/reliable the investment is substantially higher.
Wat helps almost every team in the game. In some cases (such as Vader and SEE) he can be the difference maker. But again SEE is a GL. Which other GL would you say, “With Wat he/she can easily win”. It seems like that is something you would say with lessor toons. Not someone with a large investment and listed as on par with the top 4 toons in the game.
I just don’t see how the scenario where he’s a essentially a slightly more flexible/reliable version of the Vader + Watt combo makes him on par. Considering the investment.
While true for several post in here Alex has been on topic and made several contributions to this thread. I’m sure there are examples but in no way shape or form have his post been as you suggest.
While true for several post in here Alex has been on topic and made several contributions to this thread. I’m sure there are examples but in no way shape or form have his post been as you suggest.
I suppose SEE's arena viability is (to be fair) starting to show, albeit that does nothing to address his shortcomings in other game modes.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
I suppose SEE's arena viability is (to be fair) starting to show, albeit that does nothing to address his shortcomings in other game modes.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
The videos I’ve been posting are exclusively SEE + Darth wat and no one else in the team - it reliably beats pretty much every team in the game (including see + any variation of sith). *edit - not slk and I haven’t tried it against a rey + rjt team yet
I’m of the opinion that he doesn’t need a buff, but some touch ups or changes that would cause him to have more synergy with his faction so that he performs as well as he does with just wat.
Again, it’s not like I have a full 5 man sith team and just throw wat it; it’s literally only wat. Pretty much regardless of the sith units you use with a see 5 man team, they all just get nuked anyway because he has 0 synergy with them (that’s substantial).
Here’s just another see / darth wat team vs a pretty good see sith team; different toons. I’m gonna try to get him rey vs rjt today cuz someone in an earlier post said he will lose to that as well as slk (known) and rey + han (if han stuns wat).
I suppose SEE's arena viability is (to be fair) starting to show, albeit that does nothing to address his shortcomings in other game modes.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
The videos I’ve been posting are exclusively SEE + Darth wat and no one else in the team - it reliably beats pretty much every team in the game (including see + any variation of sith). *edit - not slk and I haven’t tried it against a rey + rjt team yet
I’m of the opinion that he doesn’t need a buff, but some touch ups or changes that would cause him to have more synergy with his faction so that he performs as well as he does with just wat.
Again, it’s not like I have a full 5 man sith team and just throw wat it; it’s literally only wat. Pretty much regardless of the sith units you use with a see 5 man team, they all just get nuked anyway because he has 0 synergy with them (that’s substantial).
I suppose SEE's arena viability is (to be fair) starting to show, albeit that does nothing to address his shortcomings in other game modes.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
The videos I’ve been posting are exclusively SEE + Darth wat and no one else in the team - it reliably beats pretty much every team in the game (including see + any variation of sith). *edit - not slk and I haven’t tried it against a rey + rjt team yet
I’m of the opinion that he doesn’t need a buff, but some touch ups or changes that would cause him to have more synergy with his faction so that he performs as well as he does with just wat.
Again, it’s not like I have a full 5 man sith team and just throw wat it; it’s literally only wat. Pretty much regardless of the sith units you use with a see 5 man team, they all just get nuked anyway because he has 0 synergy with them (that’s substantial).
It beats Rey
Yea I just wrecked rey + resist + malak as well as a rey + meta jedi, but I haven’t played against rey + rjt yet, which is what a prior poster said would beat see + wat
I suppose SEE's arena viability is (to be fair) starting to show, albeit that does nothing to address his shortcomings in other game modes.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
You can get #1 every day with DR, Vader, or JKL. No GL needed. The question is how hard it falls due to its weaknesses.
This is primarily a matter of one's shard.
ancient shard: maybe so many jedi (JML and rey+jedi titans) that if you climb to the top you don't get knocked down as much since a lot of people have multiple GLs and anyone can beat everything (sith vs SLKR probably being the roughest here if they don't have top jedi or GAS cheese), and JML will be too lazy to counter SEE or swap to kylo or troopers.
medium shard: fewer jedi, and also fewer reys and way more kylos since people weren't as ready for rey and had time to see kylo's performance. SEE probably drops hard here.
new shard: so few GLs that it doesn't really matter, and SEE can get to the top probably without even a refresh
This isn't about SEE's power, even if he does okay in arena--it relies on the meta situation in one's shard, and having a lot of jedi to insulate SEE, rather than SEE's own strengths warding off older meta toons. It's similar to DR meta when GG nuke squad would hold decently in shards packed with DR squads, but if there were too few DR squads then GG nuke squad would drop like a rock due to all the JKR and padme squads (newer accounts without DR at the time often chose these as their first high relic teams).
Meanwhile https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/
SE with some sitthy characters can easily climb through all JKRevans
and basically he is NS 2.0
And just by analizing my own arena, many new players starts unlocking him for a fresh climbing
Meanwhile https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/
SE with some sitthy characters can easily climb through all JKRevans
and basically he is NS 2.0
And just by analizing my own arena, many new players starts unlocking him for a fresh climbing
12% SEE after 3 months during a jedi meta is supposed to be encouraging? Just imagine how well he will do when the next set of GLs (who I presume wont be jedi) are released in another 3 months
Meanwhile https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/
SE with some sitthy characters can easily climb through all JKRevans
and basically he is NS 2.0
And just by analizing my own arena, many new players starts unlocking him for a fresh climbing
12% SEE after 3 months during a jedi meta is supposed to be encouraging? Just imagine how well he will do when the next set of GLs (who I presume wont be jedi) are released in another 3 months
Yes, Just 3 month and already better then Rey and Kylo when they were released with 3+ month notice.
Then, the cheapest GL there is which can deal with any Revan-teams, just by mixing any trash sith there is.
Some noname who've never seen top50 climb top1 today with mix of r3,r1 and t12 sith dealing with r8 like paper.
Totally like NS meta when Talzin came out.
Replies
"If SEE wasn’t a GL (like if he was a JKL level character) then the Gl restriction (referencing link) would make sense (especially in the theoretical verse where SEE is a JKL type event, since JKL’s lead doesn’t affect GLS then it’d make sense for SEE’s damage reduction to not work also)
But SEE IS a GL, so link should work on GLs, that’d basically be like if JML didn’t taunt against GLS, Rey’s lifeblood didn’t reduce GL’s damage or if SLKR didn’t gain ult charge when hitting GLS"
Link needs to be seriously looked at if SEE is to ever be viable in this game.
Arena wins and losses, in the end, dont mean much. There's ways around rey, jml, and slkr teams that are F2P friendly. SEE is the worst GL, doesn't deserve that tag, and is no better then gas or JKL.
Given their track record, silence on a decision this far down the track is indicative of “he’s not getting touched”.
These numbers do not apply to arena viability, where as far as I know Rey is generally bad against SLKR and probably JML without using Jedi?
Looking at the last GAC seasons stats (specifically 99% of the teams, ignoring the outliers because that takes you from one and a half pages of teams to 83 pages of teams) and there were 77631 Reys on defense, of which none used Han and 13367 (17.2%) used JTR. If you can beat 82% of the standard defensive Rey teams with just SEE/Wat thats still a highly effective team to use. This may change as information on SEE/Wat being able to do this spreads of course.
Its also not just Rey/Jedi that this works on. I have beaten Rey/RH Bros/Han/Chewy with it, though of course its 50/50 on whether Wat or SEE gets shot at the start.
Looks like it beats the 'standard' (21546 out of the 77631 defensive teams used this lineup) Resistance defense team pretty easily. No reason it shouldnt beat everything else that doesnt bring JTR or Han and honestly thats great if there is something that can be done to stop this **** duo with Wat nonsense both using and against SEE.
In TW at a higher level Rey normally isn't set without JTR. Its to help stomp the vader counter.
In every single GAC I've been in that the opponent has set Rey... its ALWAYS with JTR as an assist.
This SEE duo is basicly arena only. Helpful, but for where it matters most (TW/GAC) only marginally useful.
There is a competing game (DSA) which regularly refreshes old toons. DSA globally launched few months ago!
I gotta say the 30k basics post ult are also quite devastating
Vader + Wat team beats SEE team
😂😂
Yea I agree with that sentiment; the vader wat team posted is an entire team so it makes sense as there should be f2p counter for everything.
As opposed to the vids I’ve been posting, which is just SEE + Darth wat cheese duo performs exponentially better than see + a full team of sith
Not least when you look at what JKL and GAS can do as non-GLs.
I don't hate SEE, there's bits of his kit that are quite interesting but there's something missing. And Link needs a re-think. Boom - that rhymed!
Wat helps almost every team in the game. In some cases (such as Vader and SEE) he can be the difference maker. But again SEE is a GL. Which other GL would you say, “With Wat he/she can easily win”. It seems like that is something you would say with lessor toons. Not someone with a large investment and listed as on par with the top 4 toons in the game.
I just don’t see how the scenario where he’s a essentially a slightly more flexible/reliable version of the Vader + Watt combo makes him on par. Considering the investment.
Hi.
Just wanted to try tagging you too.
Quality contribution - as ever.
While true for several post in here Alex has been on topic and made several contributions to this thread. I’m sure there are examples but in no way shape or form have his post been as you suggest.
It was aimed at the specific example quoted.
Anyway; I have crept into my top 20 with him (no ultimate 5/10, there) with Nihilus (R4), Traya (R5), Sion (R4) and Malak (R5). I think with ultimate it could get top 10, maybe top 5. Not trying to detract from the above criticism but that may give some pointers in terms of squad composition (not saying mine is the best, I'm still working on it).
The videos I’ve been posting are exclusively SEE + Darth wat and no one else in the team - it reliably beats pretty much every team in the game (including see + any variation of sith). *edit - not slk and I haven’t tried it against a rey + rjt team yet
I’m of the opinion that he doesn’t need a buff, but some touch ups or changes that would cause him to have more synergy with his faction so that he performs as well as he does with just wat.
Again, it’s not like I have a full 5 man sith team and just throw wat it; it’s literally only wat. Pretty much regardless of the sith units you use with a see 5 man team, they all just get nuked anyway because he has 0 synergy with them (that’s substantial).
It beats Rey
Yea I just wrecked rey + resist + malak as well as a rey + meta jedi, but I haven’t played against rey + rjt yet, which is what a prior poster said would beat see + wat
This is primarily a matter of one's shard.
ancient shard: maybe so many jedi (JML and rey+jedi titans) that if you climb to the top you don't get knocked down as much since a lot of people have multiple GLs and anyone can beat everything (sith vs SLKR probably being the roughest here if they don't have top jedi or GAS cheese), and JML will be too lazy to counter SEE or swap to kylo or troopers.
medium shard: fewer jedi, and also fewer reys and way more kylos since people weren't as ready for rey and had time to see kylo's performance. SEE probably drops hard here.
new shard: so few GLs that it doesn't really matter, and SEE can get to the top probably without even a refresh
This isn't about SEE's power, even if he does okay in arena--it relies on the meta situation in one's shard, and having a lot of jedi to insulate SEE, rather than SEE's own strengths warding off older meta toons. It's similar to DR meta when GG nuke squad would hold decently in shards packed with DR squads, but if there were too few DR squads then GG nuke squad would drop like a rock due to all the JKR and padme squads (newer accounts without DR at the time often chose these as their first high relic teams).
https://swgoh.gg/stats/meta-report/1/
SE with some sitthy characters can easily climb through all JKRevans
and basically he is NS 2.0
And just by analizing my own arena, many new players starts unlocking him for a fresh climbing
12% SEE after 3 months during a jedi meta is supposed to be encouraging? Just imagine how well he will do when the next set of GLs (who I presume wont be jedi) are released in another 3 months
Then, the cheapest GL there is which can deal with any Revan-teams, just by mixing any trash sith there is.
Some noname who've never seen top50 climb top1 today with mix of r3,r1 and t12 sith dealing with r8 like paper.
Totally like NS meta when Talzin came out.
but maybe another 133 pages will change cg's mind