Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Well, for starters they could make toons NOT take 400+ kyro's (i'm directly thinking of MM at the moment who had what? 4 50/50's in the lead up to G12 and 100 more to get G13). That's something directly (and flat out intentionally) creating a gear crunch. older characters requiring 200-250 lvl 3 carbanti's while we have 1500 lvl 4's in the bank. Possibly putting usable gear in the tank raid, etc. There are a number of easy things to be done to lighten the load. They choose not to. And you know, it makes sense the choose not to because they intentionally created the problem in the first place. I also fail to see where R9 makes any sense in the foreseable future when i'd wager 95%+ of the player based doesn't have a single R8.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Again it’s not a want, it’s a need because being competitive ties directly into crystal and other resource income.
And, if you can't be competitive, there's no fun because anything outside of standard events will get you hammered.
To be successful, a game has to be fun for everyone playing. You keep backloading it becomes less fun for more and more people.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
There is always a section of players that want something for nothing in every mobile game.
That's not this discussion.
Frankly, to equate that with the honest discussion of dealing with this Gear Crunch self-imposed by CG is just trying to distract the discussion at best and disingenuous at worst and not helping this discussion to progress.
Let's get back to addressing the real concerns of the choke points that affect every player, from new to day-one players...
I don't think anyone with a reasonable mind set would say they wanted to be able to G13 and Relic everything. The gates make sense - up to a point -but IMO they are in the wrong places at the moment.
Move the gear crunch away from gear 8 / 9 to G11 and I'd be fine with that. It kicks in far too early at the moment.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
I've found this whole experience to be very enlightening.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
While also still requiring the new toons to need the old bottleneck gear on top of that.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
While also still requiring the new toons to need the old bottleneck gear on top of that.
Exactly.
I've found this whole experience to be very enlightening.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
So.......unless your argument is no amount of change will be wholly acceptable to the entire community and therefore there should be no changes implemented bc we're lazy and greedy for wanting something other similar games have already implemented or would have implemented years ago.....I don't really get where you're going with that.
In this thread we've seen ppl very eloquently describe easing the gear bottleneck from g8/g9 to g12, to g11, and the response is to imply the community just wants GL handouts and no fix could ever be satisfactory enough. Starting a sentence with a perfectly reasonable statement, then adding on the but, completely wipes out the first part of that sentence. No one here is saying you should get r7 immediately on a fresh account. But that statement implies these +6 mil accounts are demanding something extreme after years of loyalty and in many cases decent/large sums of $$$.
Personally, I think CG's decision has been made to do nothing about the gear crunch. My evidence is quite strong. It is ALL those packs in the store featuring the gear that they keep a chokehold on and making me look at obnoxious pop up ads of everyday. With GLs becoming the new meta, they've moved the business model from crystals for character tokens to gear packs and crystal packs to be spent on gear. It's probably more profitable. But it also means they can't ease the gear crunch because if they do that, they'll start to lose money. They've created their own problem.
You mentioned that we don't NEED to stay competitive. Interesting take in a game with so much pvp content. The game even seeks to turn you against your own guild in a bid for top spots in raids. A word of advice. If you keep making that statement, eventually someone (like me, maybe) is going to turn around and point out that we don't even NEED to play the game. CG needs us to continue playing. To continue paying. Every single player, f2p or kraken, could all drop the game tomorrow and CG would be the ones suffering because of it. We'd all be fine. The way CG has been treating us recently, maybe they need a reminder of that.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
So.......unless your argument is no amount of change will be wholly acceptable to the entire community and therefore there should be no changes implemented bc we're lazy and greedy for wanting something other similar games have already implemented or would have implemented years ago.....I don't really get where you're going with that.
In this thread we've seen ppl very eloquently describe easing the gear bottleneck from g8/g9 to g12, to g11, and the response is to imply the community just wants GL handouts and no fix could ever be satisfactory enough. Starting a sentence with a perfectly reasonable statement, then adding on the but, completely wipes out the first part of that sentence. No one here is saying you should get r7 immediately on a fresh account. But that statement implies these +6 mil accounts are demanding something extreme after years of loyalty and in many cases decent/large sums of $$$.
Personally, I think CG's decision has been made to do nothing about the gear crunch. My evidence is quite strong. It is ALL those packs in the store featuring the gear that they keep a chokehold on and making me look at obnoxious pop up ads of everyday. With GLs becoming the new meta, they've moved the business model from crystals for character tokens to gear packs and crystal packs to be spent on gear. It's probably more profitable. But it also means they can't ease the gear crunch because if they do that, they'll start to lose money. They've created their own problem.
You mentioned that we don't NEED to stay competitive. Interesting take in a game with so much pvp content. The game even seeks to turn you against your own guild in a bid for top spots in raids. A word of advice. If you keep making that statement, eventually someone (like me, maybe) is going to turn around and point out that we don't even NEED to play the game. CG needs us to continue playing. To continue paying. Every single player, f2p or kraken, could all drop the game tomorrow and CG would be the ones suffering because of it. We'd all be fine. The way CG has been treating us recently, maybe they need a reminder of that.
Fantastically put. Couldn’t have said it better myself
As long as there are F2P with 6 GL and Executor, CG won't do much
As long as people pay, CG won't do much. They couldn't care less about F2P and what they do or don't have. If anything, they would take F2P with 6 GLs and Executor as a sign that they need to make the crunch harder.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Again it’s not a want, it’s a need because being competitive ties directly into crystal and other resource income.
It still a want, you WANT a higher income of crystals and you gauge from there the timeline you find acceptable for getting it, but you can still play the game with a lower income, many players do.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Well, for starters they could make toons NOT take 400+ kyro's (i'm directly thinking of MM at the moment who had what? 4 50/50's in the lead up to G12 and 100 more to get G13). That's something directly (and flat out intentionally) creating a gear crunch. older characters requiring 200-250 lvl 3 carbanti's while we have 1500 lvl 4's in the bank. Possibly putting usable gear in the tank raid, etc. There are a number of easy things to be done to lighten the load. They choose not to. And you know, it makes sense the choose not to because they intentionally created the problem in the first place. I also fail to see where R9 makes any sense in the foreseable future when i'd wager 95%+ of the player based doesn't have a single R8.
Correct, but I dont think anyone has argued against this.
They have stated, and I think it's a fine stance that they want to keep a pace in the early game, which this would kind of go against, but we can see what happens as they chip away at it.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
There is always a section of players that want something for nothing in every mobile game.
That's not this discussion.
Frankly, to equate that with the honest discussion of dealing with this Gear Crunch self-imposed by CG is just trying to distract the discussion at best and disingenuous at worst and not helping this discussion to progress.
Let's get back to addressing the real concerns of the choke points that affect every player, from new to day-one players...
Ok, but at no point am I talking about anything for free. There has been and always will be a pace, this will not change, and that is part of this issue, for new and day one players. Realizing that and working within it as many players are doing is the best way to deal with it. If you have a solid plan and find your happy place, then anything they add or change will only serve to make you happier.
I am being honest, and disregarding this point, is just going to make players less happy, as no change will ever be "enough", if "you" dont realize this.
I don't think anyone with a reasonable mind set would say they wanted to be able to G13 and Relic everything. The gates make sense - up to a point -but IMO they are in the wrong places at the moment.
Move the gear crunch away from gear 8 / 9 to G11 and I'd be fine with that. It kicks in far too early at the moment.
This.
Pinch points should move, but thay doesnt mean they will go away or really have any faster pace to things like r7,8,9. Even that doesn't mean that beyond r3 (as an example, not a real selection point) will be or keep being easy for long time players
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
New shiny and powerful characters costing more is not surprising.
Also, I would guess that as part of the plan to phase out older materials, there is going to be a shift to newer ones. But that's just a guess.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
So.......unless your argument is no amount of change will be wholly acceptable to the entire community and therefore there should be no changes implemented bc we're lazy and greedy for wanting something other similar games have already implemented or would have implemented years ago.....I don't really get where you're going with that.
In this thread we've seen ppl very eloquently describe easing the gear bottleneck from g8/g9 to g12, to g11, and the response is to imply the community just wants GL handouts and no fix could ever be satisfactory enough. Starting a sentence with a perfectly reasonable statement, then adding on the but, completely wipes out the first part of that sentence. No one here is saying you should get r7 immediately on a fresh account. But that statement implies these +6 mil accounts are demanding something extreme after years of loyalty and in many cases decent/large sums of $$$.
Personally, I think CG's decision has been made to do nothing about the gear crunch. My evidence is quite strong. It is ALL those packs in the store featuring the gear that they keep a chokehold on and making me look at obnoxious pop up ads of everyday. With GLs becoming the new meta, they've moved the business model from crystals for character tokens to gear packs and crystal packs to be spent on gear. It's probably more profitable. But it also means they can't ease the gear crunch because if they do that, they'll start to lose money. They've created their own problem.
You mentioned that we don't NEED to stay competitive. Interesting take in a game with so much pvp content. The game even seeks to turn you against your own guild in a bid for top spots in raids. A word of advice. If you keep making that statement, eventually someone (like me, maybe) is going to turn around and point out that we don't even NEED to play the game. CG needs us to continue playing. To continue paying. Every single player, f2p or kraken, could all drop the game tomorrow and CG would be the ones suffering because of it. We'd all be fine. The way CG has been treating us recently, maybe they need a reminder of that.
I'm glad you could twist a good old dev bash in there. That is always helpful to the conversation.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
There is always a section of players that want something for nothing in every mobile game.
That's not this discussion.
Frankly, to equate that with the honest discussion of dealing with this Gear Crunch self-imposed by CG is just trying to distract the discussion at best and disingenuous at worst and not helping this discussion to progress.
Let's get back to addressing the real concerns of the choke points that affect every player, from new to day-one players...
Ok, but at no point am I talking about anything for free. There has been and always will be a pace, this will not change, and that is part of this issue, for new and day one players. Realizing that and working within it as many players are doing is the best way to deal with it. If you have a solid plan and find your happy place, then anything they add or change will only serve to make you happier.
I am being honest, and disregarding this point, is just going to make players less happy, as no change will ever be "enough", if "you" dont realize this.
This is what I was saying, and I didnt read the rest of your post. I will try to circle back around to the rest, but I'm guessing it's as constructive as the first part....
I cannot use my imaginary wishlist of things that I'd like to have right now (like more impulse detectors) to upgrade my charaters, sorry. But maybe that's a new gearing model? Tell CG on what you want to upgrade and promise them "hey, eventually I'll have that stuff together so let me upgrade that char right now and you can add that cost to my current deficit".
The fact is: We get a certain amount of resource income (that has increased over time) while at the same time the resource requirements are increasing at a higher rate. New chars require more gear (old stuff like carbs, guns, cuffs, etc. and the new kyros on top), that's easy to see when comparing gear requirements of older chars (like from 2016 or 2017) with newer ones (like 2020-2021). The newer GLs are requiring far more relics than the older ones (relic 5.18 avg on Rey vs 5.57 avg on JMK and we're alrdy on 6.18 avg for LV - unless the last reqs are going to be "only" R3 to push the avg down he's going to be on top of all GLs --> and all that is not even taking into account that the new GLs have a higher relic 7+8 count, relic 8's being a first time thing). Oh sure, we have a good income of Aeromagnifiers with CPit (and CG shills keep on arguing that CPit is that super awesome thing to solve our R8 problems - so "getting your chars on R5 from GL requirements is a good thing because of CPit"), too bad that the real bottleneck are Zinbiddles and Impulse Detectors both of which are not dropping there. The solution: Farm IDs via 9F bayonets (which takes an eternity and can only be done if you're not farming 4 LS hard nodes for BB at the same time) or buy them from weekly shipments.
"If you think we have the exact same income despite more events being added, that give us stuff, no amount of linking will help."
The more content, the more units, the better for the game, because it brings diversity (red line), even if you can't catch them all (green line). What you could explain is what you're meaning when you talk about what you "need". Do you mean to follow meta to stay competitive in arena ? To get max stars at LSTB ? To have fun ? Because I think we can agree that you don't need to relic every new unit that comes to the holotables.
I cannot use my imaginary wishlist of things that I'd like to have right now (like more impulse detectors) to upgrade my charaters, sorry. But maybe that's a new gearing model? Tell CG on what you want to upgrade and promise them "hey, eventually I'll have that stuff together so let me upgrade that char right now and you can add that cost to my current deficit".
The fact is: We get a certain amount of resource income (that has increased over time) while at the same time the resource requirements are increasing at a higher rate. New chars require more gear (old stuff like carbs, guns, cuffs, etc. and the new kyros on top), that's easy to see when comparing gear requirements of older chars (like from 2016 or 2017) with newer ones (like 2020-2021). The newer GLs are requiring far more relics than the older ones (relic 5.18 avg on Rey vs 5.57 avg on JMK and we're alrdy on 6.18 avg for LV - unless the last reqs are going to be "only" R3 to push the avg down he's going to be on top of all GLs --> and all that is not even taking into account that the new GLs have a higher relic 7+8 count, relic 8's being a first time thing). Oh sure, we have a good income of Aeromagnifiers with CPit (and CG shills keep on arguing that CPit is that super awesome thing to solve our R8 problems - so "getting your chars on R5 from GL requirements is a good thing because of CPit"), too bad that the real bottleneck are Zinbiddles and Impulse Detectors both of which are not dropping there. The solution: Farm IDs via 9F bayonets (which takes an eternity and can only be done if you're not farming 4 LS hard nodes for BB at the same time) or buy them from weekly shipments.
"If you think we have the exact same income despite more events being added, that give us stuff, no amount of linking will help."
Sounds like "we get more stuff" to me.
Well wanting things "right now" is probably the issues here, and what I am trying to say. You will never have everything "right now" and how you gauge that is what determines what you want, and how long it "should take".
Despite what anyone wants, the amount of toons you can get to X relic level in Y amount of time will never be fast enough, and that is literally part of the game. That is what drives decisions, balance, and yes, profits.
Players confusing want and need, because they want to win doesnt mean they actually need those things at the pace they want. They want them at that pace, but as we have always seen that requires focus and planning and the understanding that to "get them all" requires a lot of patience and/or $$.
Despite whatever changes happen, we will always be fighting against the pace to get what we want, and recognizing that and working within it will always be required.
Since we are all on the same scale, we dont "need" things to be competitive, as you are just as competitive as the person next to you. Even if that pace moves or pinch points change, we are all still against the same pace. If someone has an advantage over you, then maybe they made different choices or were able to use $$ to get there. Does that mean they will always win, no, but that is all part of the game.
I'm not saying the gear crunch shouldn't be addressed in some direct way, just trying to keep perspective on the pace that we are always going at, and how that will not go away, even if it does change.
Yes, new and shiny may require more stuff, and yes it may require the new high end stuff. That is part of chasing end game stuff. Addressing the gear crunch is not likely to be directly related to that, it is more likely to address the gear levels leaving relics as the "new system" for end game stuff.
Yes, new and shiny may require more stuff, and yes it may require the new high end stuff. That is part of chasing end game stuff. Addressing the gear crunch is not likely to be directly related to that, it is more likely to address the gear levels leaving relics as the "new system" for end game stuff.
As I experience it and most players around me does, this is already the case for 7.5m+ players. We have next to none relics income while relic oriented needs increase, so they are becoming the primary clutch while older sinks evaporate faster than one can gather relics.
For example, currently for executor+lv needs I need 36.5k crystals worth of data and 40k more of zinbiddle+impulse
AND
23.1k worth of all gear including kyros.
Yes, new and shiny may require more stuff, and yes it may require the new high end stuff. That is part of chasing end game stuff. Addressing the gear crunch is not likely to be directly related to that, it is more likely to address the gear levels leaving relics as the "new system" for end game stuff.
As I experience it and most players around me does, this is already the case for 7.5m+ players. We have next to none relics income while relic oriented needs increase, so they are becoming the primary clutch while older sinks evaporate faster than one can gather relics.
I kind of agree, but still seeing stun guns as an issue at this point just doesnt feel right. If this was a progressive system, or felt more RPG like, as we have had it called, players at that point would not be really worried about gear level pieces and we would be rewarded with pieces used for lower relic levels or gear in quantities to be used there.
That is how I feel, and obviously there are many ways to do this and keep the things they want in place and a pace that works for them. As they said they will keep chipping away at this and work it into the system they envision it to be in the future.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
New shiny and powerful characters costing more is not surprising.
Also, I would guess that as part of the plan to phase out older materials, there is going to be a shift to newer ones. But that's just a guess.
Yes, because it is the same as everything CG does in this game; to make money.
And about the newer gear materials, how did they help the crunch? Adding extensive amounts of Kyros to new toons doesn’t exactly fix it.
I've found this whole experience to be very enlightening.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
New shiny and powerful characters costing more is not surprising.
Also, I would guess that as part of the plan to phase out older materials, there is going to be a shift to newer ones. But that's just a guess.
Yes, because it is the same as everything CG does in this game; to make money.
And about the newer gear materials, how did they help the crunch? Adding extensive amounts of Kyros to new toons doesn’t exactly fix it.
Funny part is, I have absolutely been having an easier time getting stun guns since then, and without farming them. I generally have enough but am also running low on the kyros, but they feel like they have a more natural income, but I also farm them.
I dont find the number added to be excessive, but as many players seem to think, their WANTing of the new LV has them focused on the required toons that need a number of them.
For example, currently for executor+lv needs I need 36.5k crystals worth of data and 40k more of zinbiddle+impulse
AND
23.1k worth of all gear including kyros.
Whatever happened to earning them and farming them? Crystals are a shortcut used to keep you competitive, but what does competitiveness actually mean? It means you get more crystals per day. So you’re spending crystals to get crystals.
Just be patient and diligent. You’ll get it when you get it.
Did I miss something? You keep saying “options”. No kyno, their recent nerfs to non GL counters and explicit statement that they don’t want non GL counters bearing GL’s makes it a demand. A demand that if we are to stay competitive in arena, GAC, TW and possibly even conquest, we need as many GL’s as we can get.
You don’t need as many GLs as you can get to stay competitive in arena, gac, tw, or conquest. In arena you need to follow meta, so far getting 1 every 2 GLs was enough to be very confortable (so far). In gac there is a matchmaking system; if you have an efficient roster with zero or one GL, you don’t need an extra one to stay competitive; you can stop farming altogether and you’ll stay as competitive as you are now for a long time. As Conquest could be finished, you didn’t need as many as you can get. You need enough to finish it. So far, 2 seemed quite enough, maybe even 1 was (so far. It doesn’t seem far fetch what we’ll need more later on, via a mythic difficulty or something).
So to stay competitive in arena you NEED one of the new GL’s when each pair is released.
With the nerfs coming you NEED more GL’s to beat an opponent who has more since non GL counters are being systematically nerfed. So no, once the nerfs go into effect, with no changes to matchmaking, you need to get as many GL’s as you can. Beating GL’s in conquest will now require GL’s as well with the changes
You dont need to stay competitive, you WANT to stay competitive. There is a difference.
GAC you will WANT as many GLs as you can get to try to get an advantage and ensure victory.
Conquest, much like arena, as long as you have a good roster and the current meta, you are probably fine.
But you NEED to stay competitive to stay successful in the PvP modes. And for the current meta, that brings us back to the gear crunch issue. And if you NEED the current meta to stay competitive (which seems like it will be requiring R9 in the future), with all the prerequisites, the gear crunch seriously needs to be addressed.
I am pretty sure that you WANT to stay competitive, and there is a wide range to what that means, which effects the timeline in which a player will personally define as "ok" to stay at the desired level.
The gear crunch does need to be addressed, but there is probably a section of this that needs to be addressed by what a player thinks they should get in what timeline, because even if it is addressed, that part may still not be "fast enough" and will still be blamed on the gear economy.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
New shiny and powerful characters costing more is not surprising.
Also, I would guess that as part of the plan to phase out older materials, there is going to be a shift to newer ones. But that's just a guess.
Yes, because it is the same as everything CG does in this game; to make money.
And about the newer gear materials, how did they help the crunch? Adding extensive amounts of Kyros to new toons doesn’t exactly fix it.
Funny part is, I have absolutely been having an easier time getting stun guns since then, and without farming them. I generally have enough but am also running low on the kyros, but they feel like they have a more natural income, but I also farm them.
I dont find the number added to be excessive, but as many players seem to think, their WANTing of the new LV has them focused on the required toons that need a number of them.
Kyno I’m shocked you still aren’t getting it. It’s not a simple “want”.
To stay relevant in this game you need to not only keep up with the current meta but also upgrade supporting teams as well to the higher progression levels.
If CG is actively making non GL toons a completely second tier and unable to beat a GL then players NEED to get a GL so their current revenue stream does not get worse than it currently is.
As it stands right now CG is increasing the gear grind by adding in new progression tiers as well as also moving the goal posts for requirements for these new toons over time while not increasing the resource income at the same rate, thus widening the gap. We’ve gone from star level, to power level, to g12, then relic levels, and having those relic levels scale higher with each new release. Now we are in the R5-R8 being the norm, except for the blip that is Beskar Armor Trashdo.
So if people are to stay relevant and not fall further behind there NEEDS to be a change in the gear economy so that getting to G12 is not a chore for those that have played the game for as long as we have. There’s no way that they haven’t found a proper balance if they’re truly trying after well more than a year. If people are falling too far behind and their current investment devalued too much then they won’t WANT to play this game anymore. That’s the thing that’s already been said quite eloquently by Inyak. CG needs us to play this game. We don’t need to play it. So if CG’s inability to properly maintain a resource economy squash’s our WANT to play the game, then they’re gonna NEED to do something to fix thing. CG NEEDS its player base to want to play this game.
For example, currently for executor+lv needs I need 36.5k crystals worth of data and 40k more of zinbiddle+impulse
AND
23.1k worth of all gear including kyros.
Whatever happened to earning them and farming them? Crystals are a shortcut used to keep you competitive, but what does competitiveness actually mean? It means you get more crystals per day. So you’re spending crystals to get crystals.
Just be patient and diligent. You’ll get it when you get it.
Crystals are what I use comparing the needs, not what I use to get them...well, except zinbiddle+impulse.
You missed the point entirely. Once someone has a highly developed roster, the needs shift from old gear bottlenecks to relic oriented things.
Replies
Well, for starters they could make toons NOT take 400+ kyro's (i'm directly thinking of MM at the moment who had what? 4 50/50's in the lead up to G12 and 100 more to get G13). That's something directly (and flat out intentionally) creating a gear crunch. older characters requiring 200-250 lvl 3 carbanti's while we have 1500 lvl 4's in the bank. Possibly putting usable gear in the tank raid, etc. There are a number of easy things to be done to lighten the load. They choose not to. And you know, it makes sense the choose not to because they intentionally created the problem in the first place. I also fail to see where R9 makes any sense in the foreseable future when i'd wager 95%+ of the player based doesn't have a single R8.
And, if you can't be competitive, there's no fun because anything outside of standard events will get you hammered.
To be successful, a game has to be fun for everyone playing. You keep backloading it becomes less fun for more and more people.
There is always a section of players that want something for nothing in every mobile game.
That's not this discussion.
Frankly, to equate that with the honest discussion of dealing with this Gear Crunch self-imposed by CG is just trying to distract the discussion at best and disingenuous at worst and not helping this discussion to progress.
Let's get back to addressing the real concerns of the choke points that affect every player, from new to day-one players...
Move the gear crunch away from gear 8 / 9 to G11 and I'd be fine with that. It kicks in far too early at the moment.
Pretty sure most would say it’s a NEED, based off the crystals and resources they get from it.
And yes, the gear crunch should be addressed, but not by making all new characters need an extensive amount of a new gear peace.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
While also still requiring the new toons to need the old bottleneck gear on top of that.
Exactly.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
So.......unless your argument is no amount of change will be wholly acceptable to the entire community and therefore there should be no changes implemented bc we're lazy and greedy for wanting something other similar games have already implemented or would have implemented years ago.....I don't really get where you're going with that.
In this thread we've seen ppl very eloquently describe easing the gear bottleneck from g8/g9 to g12, to g11, and the response is to imply the community just wants GL handouts and no fix could ever be satisfactory enough. Starting a sentence with a perfectly reasonable statement, then adding on the but, completely wipes out the first part of that sentence. No one here is saying you should get r7 immediately on a fresh account. But that statement implies these +6 mil accounts are demanding something extreme after years of loyalty and in many cases decent/large sums of $$$.
Personally, I think CG's decision has been made to do nothing about the gear crunch. My evidence is quite strong. It is ALL those packs in the store featuring the gear that they keep a chokehold on and making me look at obnoxious pop up ads of everyday. With GLs becoming the new meta, they've moved the business model from crystals for character tokens to gear packs and crystal packs to be spent on gear. It's probably more profitable. But it also means they can't ease the gear crunch because if they do that, they'll start to lose money. They've created their own problem.
You mentioned that we don't NEED to stay competitive. Interesting take in a game with so much pvp content. The game even seeks to turn you against your own guild in a bid for top spots in raids. A word of advice. If you keep making that statement, eventually someone (like me, maybe) is going to turn around and point out that we don't even NEED to play the game. CG needs us to continue playing. To continue paying. Every single player, f2p or kraken, could all drop the game tomorrow and CG would be the ones suffering because of it. We'd all be fine. The way CG has been treating us recently, maybe they need a reminder of that.
Fantastically put. Couldn’t have said it better myself
As long as people pay, CG won't do much. They couldn't care less about F2P and what they do or don't have. If anything, they would take F2P with 6 GLs and Executor as a sign that they need to make the crunch harder.
It still a want, you WANT a higher income of crystals and you gauge from there the timeline you find acceptable for getting it, but you can still play the game with a lower income, many players do.
Correct, but I dont think anyone has argued against this.
They have stated, and I think it's a fine stance that they want to keep a pace in the early game, which this would kind of go against, but we can see what happens as they chip away at it.
Ok, but at no point am I talking about anything for free. There has been and always will be a pace, this will not change, and that is part of this issue, for new and day one players. Realizing that and working within it as many players are doing is the best way to deal with it. If you have a solid plan and find your happy place, then anything they add or change will only serve to make you happier.
I am being honest, and disregarding this point, is just going to make players less happy, as no change will ever be "enough", if "you" dont realize this.
This.
Pinch points should move, but thay doesnt mean they will go away or really have any faster pace to things like r7,8,9. Even that doesn't mean that beyond r3 (as an example, not a real selection point) will be or keep being easy for long time players
Kyno: "BuT wE gEt MoRe StUfF!!!1!1!11"
Stuff you WANT.
And no that's not what I'm saying, but that's ok.
New shiny and powerful characters costing more is not surprising.
Also, I would guess that as part of the plan to phase out older materials, there is going to be a shift to newer ones. But that's just a guess.
I'm glad you could twist a good old dev bash in there. That is always helpful to the conversation.
This is what I was saying, and I didnt read the rest of your post. I will try to circle back around to the rest, but I'm guessing it's as constructive as the first part....
I cannot use my imaginary wishlist of things that I'd like to have right now (like more impulse detectors) to upgrade my charaters, sorry. But maybe that's a new gearing model? Tell CG on what you want to upgrade and promise them "hey, eventually I'll have that stuff together so let me upgrade that char right now and you can add that cost to my current deficit".
The fact is: We get a certain amount of resource income (that has increased over time) while at the same time the resource requirements are increasing at a higher rate. New chars require more gear (old stuff like carbs, guns, cuffs, etc. and the new kyros on top), that's easy to see when comparing gear requirements of older chars (like from 2016 or 2017) with newer ones (like 2020-2021). The newer GLs are requiring far more relics than the older ones (relic 5.18 avg on Rey vs 5.57 avg on JMK and we're alrdy on 6.18 avg for LV - unless the last reqs are going to be "only" R3 to push the avg down he's going to be on top of all GLs --> and all that is not even taking into account that the new GLs have a higher relic 7+8 count, relic 8's being a first time thing). Oh sure, we have a good income of Aeromagnifiers with CPit (and CG shills keep on arguing that CPit is that super awesome thing to solve our R8 problems - so "getting your chars on R5 from GL requirements is a good thing because of CPit"), too bad that the real bottleneck are Zinbiddles and Impulse Detectors both of which are not dropping there. The solution: Farm IDs via 9F bayonets (which takes an eternity and can only be done if you're not farming 4 LS hard nodes for BB at the same time) or buy them from weekly shipments.
"If you think we have the exact same income despite more events being added, that give us stuff, no amount of linking will help."
Sounds like "we get more stuff" to me.
The more content, the more units, the better for the game, because it brings diversity (red line), even if you can't catch them all (green line). What you could explain is what you're meaning when you talk about what you "need". Do you mean to follow meta to stay competitive in arena ? To get max stars at LSTB ? To have fun ? Because I think we can agree that you don't need to relic every new unit that comes to the holotables.
Well wanting things "right now" is probably the issues here, and what I am trying to say. You will never have everything "right now" and how you gauge that is what determines what you want, and how long it "should take".
Despite what anyone wants, the amount of toons you can get to X relic level in Y amount of time will never be fast enough, and that is literally part of the game. That is what drives decisions, balance, and yes, profits.
Players confusing want and need, because they want to win doesnt mean they actually need those things at the pace they want. They want them at that pace, but as we have always seen that requires focus and planning and the understanding that to "get them all" requires a lot of patience and/or $$.
Despite whatever changes happen, we will always be fighting against the pace to get what we want, and recognizing that and working within it will always be required.
Since we are all on the same scale, we dont "need" things to be competitive, as you are just as competitive as the person next to you. Even if that pace moves or pinch points change, we are all still against the same pace. If someone has an advantage over you, then maybe they made different choices or were able to use $$ to get there. Does that mean they will always win, no, but that is all part of the game.
I'm not saying the gear crunch shouldn't be addressed in some direct way, just trying to keep perspective on the pace that we are always going at, and how that will not go away, even if it does change.
Yes, new and shiny may require more stuff, and yes it may require the new high end stuff. That is part of chasing end game stuff. Addressing the gear crunch is not likely to be directly related to that, it is more likely to address the gear levels leaving relics as the "new system" for end game stuff.
As I experience it and most players around me does, this is already the case for 7.5m+ players. We have next to none relics income while relic oriented needs increase, so they are becoming the primary clutch while older sinks evaporate faster than one can gather relics.
AND
23.1k worth of all gear including kyros.
I kind of agree, but still seeing stun guns as an issue at this point just doesnt feel right. If this was a progressive system, or felt more RPG like, as we have had it called, players at that point would not be really worried about gear level pieces and we would be rewarded with pieces used for lower relic levels or gear in quantities to be used there.
That is how I feel, and obviously there are many ways to do this and keep the things they want in place and a pace that works for them. As they said they will keep chipping away at this and work it into the system they envision it to be in the future.
Yes, because it is the same as everything CG does in this game; to make money.
And about the newer gear materials, how did they help the crunch? Adding extensive amounts of Kyros to new toons doesn’t exactly fix it.
Thank you for evaluating. Your feedback is appreciated.
Funny part is, I have absolutely been having an easier time getting stun guns since then, and without farming them. I generally have enough but am also running low on the kyros, but they feel like they have a more natural income, but I also farm them.
I dont find the number added to be excessive, but as many players seem to think, their WANTing of the new LV has them focused on the required toons that need a number of them.
Whatever happened to earning them and farming them? Crystals are a shortcut used to keep you competitive, but what does competitiveness actually mean? It means you get more crystals per day. So you’re spending crystals to get crystals.
Just be patient and diligent. You’ll get it when you get it.
Kyno I’m shocked you still aren’t getting it. It’s not a simple “want”.
To stay relevant in this game you need to not only keep up with the current meta but also upgrade supporting teams as well to the higher progression levels.
If CG is actively making non GL toons a completely second tier and unable to beat a GL then players NEED to get a GL so their current revenue stream does not get worse than it currently is.
As it stands right now CG is increasing the gear grind by adding in new progression tiers as well as also moving the goal posts for requirements for these new toons over time while not increasing the resource income at the same rate, thus widening the gap. We’ve gone from star level, to power level, to g12, then relic levels, and having those relic levels scale higher with each new release. Now we are in the R5-R8 being the norm, except for the blip that is Beskar Armor Trashdo.
So if people are to stay relevant and not fall further behind there NEEDS to be a change in the gear economy so that getting to G12 is not a chore for those that have played the game for as long as we have. There’s no way that they haven’t found a proper balance if they’re truly trying after well more than a year. If people are falling too far behind and their current investment devalued too much then they won’t WANT to play this game anymore. That’s the thing that’s already been said quite eloquently by Inyak. CG needs us to play this game. We don’t need to play it. So if CG’s inability to properly maintain a resource economy squash’s our WANT to play the game, then they’re gonna NEED to do something to fix thing. CG NEEDS its player base to want to play this game.
Crystals are what I use comparing the needs, not what I use to get them...well, except zinbiddle+impulse.
You missed the point entirely. Once someone has a highly developed roster, the needs shift from old gear bottlenecks to relic oriented things.