@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
The T7 raid is also a major issue. End game content should not be finishable by any guild in under 1 hour forcing them to then have nothing to do for the following 47. Please address this ASAP, letting us know what you plan to do.
I agree with most of it but this.
Very strongly disagree here. Please keep it easy and quick.
This is a mobile game, not WoW MMO.
Nothing to do for the following 47? I have plenty to do, as I'm sure most of us do - I want to finish the raids as quickly as possible. We have to work, sleep, eat, tend to families and loved ones and friends, watch Game of Thrones, go to the movies, play with our cats, believe me... every minute I can spend doing RL stuff because I don't have to be tied forcefully to a game due to overlong content is a-ok with me
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
have to disagree here. since when did players expect a mobile title to have the time requirements of a console? (I'm assuming you want a more meaningful experience)
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I think there is some middle ground somewhere between 30 minute zergs of the top end game content in the game and making it impossible.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I still play the game a lot! If anything I spend the week getting ready for the next raid.
When the raids are long, it's boring, frankly. It's a ton of resetting via retreating for "the best attempts" over and over. It goes on and on. Tier VI is "funner" because your attacks actually do stuff and debuffs actually work etc, but there's a lot of fun in the 15-20 minute Heroic zerg at the moment for me.
I tinker with teams and plan out my best efforts on each of the phases during the week, because with guilds being all about that leaderboard right now, we have tons of pretty chill and friendly competition. By being fast, you don't have time to retreat. You don't have time to sit there re-doing the match fifty times for that one flawless attempt. You basically have to boot up and have at it, and retreating is scary - the phase might be dead!
This all-or-nothing approach on the attempts makes every raid feel fresh and alive. There's more excitement for me in that 15 minutes knowing everything is on the line than there is of 3 hours of retreating / re-attempting. It just feels like a real representation of our efforts when we all get, say, one solid P1 attempt. Very few of us ever squeeze in two, and there's even strategy in designing teams that can try to take advantage of that, too!
I currently have zero problems with the Heroic content. It's funny, but it seems people that AREN'T doing it have more problems with it than those that are, which comes across as very odd to me. I have absolutely no problems with clearing it fast and the rewards are great! Why spend hours when you can finish it quicker? Just makes no sense to me.
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
this is exactly what I communicated to our guild. a ally daily time investment, but spread over a few days to make it 'worthwhile.' heroic raids are just...not quite there. I like the time investment for t6 personally, but the rewards for heroic
The raid is the only actual real game content in this game, and should not become another grind. If this otherwise excellent content becomes a joke due to terrible balancing, I am going to have a hard time continuing to justify the time (and money) spent grinding everywhere else.
I have a hard time calling these raids enjoyable content. Assemble squad, go in and beat your head against a wall until the timer is up. Assemble new squad and go again. Same wall. I don't see what's so great about it.
That said, at least it's something new for a while.
ABSOLUTELY! I agree 110% the reward curve is absolutely ridiculous top 3 every guild member should get something decent for doing a T6 raid not 3 okay drops and everyone else other 47 people gets junk until you get to bottom and it's absolutely junk. Even out the rewards WAY WAY more. Also difference between T5 and T6 is ridiculous. Out guild merged with another guild we were doing T5 super quick and I was top 5 usually and my rewards were better than they are doing T6 with a whale guild finishing 15th. That is really dumb that upgrading guild members and getting stronger as a group hurts you individually.
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
I'm not necessarily convinced that T7 is 'easy' per se. If you have a huge roster then yes, it may well seem super easy and it's all about racing against your teammates for how to deal the most damage. For my guild, however, I believe T7 is currently out of reach - it takes us just over 5 days to complete T6. Depending on when we do get round to attempting T7, it probably will be a major challenge, because it will require coordination - something that hasn't been necessary for us in T6 whatsoever.
I think the unique problem to why T7 is 'easy' is because it was launched now and not, say, 3 months ago. Now, even ftp who have been playing for months have pretty extensive rosters with lots of geared and starred up toons ripe and ready for completing a T7 raid. If raids were launched 3 months ago, we may only have started hearing about successful p2p guilds and everyone would have been excited waiting to hear about the first successful ftp guild. But that didn't happen, so everyone has labelled T7 'easy'.
For the sake of comparison, just imagine what T7 looks like to ftp players starting now. It'll be six months before they can have a crack at it. I doubt they'd say it looks easy...
Great post Qeltar!
I totally agree with you. This is a coordinate competitive guild system instead of a cooperative one. There is a lot of tension in the guild. I have tried to ask the more damaging players to keep their attack for the enraged fase and let the lower players to attack in the normal state to increase their damage output. But was impossible, people only want to gent nº 1.
A pity
Should be changed,
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
I'm not necessarily convinced that T7 is 'easy' per se. If you have a huge roster then yes, it may well seem super easy and it's all about racing against your teammates for how to deal the most damage. For my guild, however, I believe T7 is currently out of reach - it takes us just over 5 days to complete T6. Depending on when we do get round to attempting T7, it probably will be a major challenge, because it will require coordination - something that hasn't been necessary for us in T6 whatsoever.
I think the unique problem to why T7 is 'easy' is because it was launched now and not, say, 3 months ago. Now, even ftp who have been playing for months have pretty extensive rosters with lots of geared and starred up toons ripe and ready for completing a T7 raid. If raids were launched 3 months ago, we may only have started hearing about successful p2p guilds and everyone would have been excited waiting to hear about the first successful ftp guild. But that didn't happen, so everyone has labelled T7 'easy'.
For the sake of comparison, just imagine what T7 looks like to ftp players starting now. It'll be six months before they can have a crack at it. I doubt they'd say it looks easy...
T7 is easy with an appropriate amount of whales in your guild.
The guild patch opened up a new door for whales, and people have been talking about it in the forums and on Reddit but a lot of people still don't really appreciate or realize the full scope of the new Shipments. When they introduced purple gear for crystals in Shipments, they widened the gap between FTP and P2P by a canyon. The gap is HUGE now. FTP didn't seem to care / believe it because for some reason, they compare Squad Arena strength a lot of the time and the arguments were "They still just field a group of five, who cares."
Well, people are starting to see the effects of that Shipments change now. The overall strength of a tried and true whale vs a FTP in raiding is insane. It would have already been a wide gap before, but Shipments just put it over the edge. I've probably progressed more on my roster since the guild patch than I did all total since the game launch.
When you have a couple whales T7 is doable. When you have none, it's probably a very legit challenge. When you have a LOT of whales, it's easy.
And when I say whale I mean the literal definition of the term in the gaming industry - a whale is someone that just buys everything with no bearing on the cost. If there's a new aurodium or chromium, you buy it. If there's gear in shipments, you buy it. You refresh shipments until 900+ every day. You buy energy until you're more or less maxed on refreshes, every day. That's a whale. With enough of those people, yeah T7 isn't that hard. Why would it be?
I liked the idea of getting the top reward for contributing 2%+ Damage to the Raid, and having the opportunity to get in your attacks even after Rancor has been taken down (to avoid missing out like players in TI).
This all-or-nothing approach on the attempts makes every raid feel fresh and alive. There's more excitement for me in that 15 minutes knowing everything is on the line than there is of 3 hours of retreating / re-attempting. It just feels like a real representation of our efforts when we all get, say, one solid P1 attempt. Very few of us ever squeeze in two, and there's even strategy in designing teams that can try to take advantage of that, too!
As I said, we just have different views on this. The above sounds to me like a complete nightmare.
The sad thing is that as soon as we can do this everyone in the guild will want to only do T7 and then I will be stuck with this silly zerg system that leaves me with nothing to do most ot the time -- exactly where I was before the raid.
I don't want the game to be my life. I also don't want to sit down with a couple of hours to kill in the evening and have nothing to do. Everything you have said reinforces in my mind that T7 is a complete failure. It may be what you are looking for (good rewards for little effort and lots of intra-guild competition). It is not what I and many others are looking for: a real challenge where the guild works together to get a difficult task done.
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
I'm not necessarily convinced that T7 is 'easy' per se. If you have a huge roster then yes, it may well seem super easy and it's all about racing against your teammates for how to deal the most damage. For my guild, however, I believe T7 is currently out of reach - it takes us just over 5 days to complete T6. Depending on when we do get round to attempting T7, it probably will be a major challenge, because it will require coordination - something that hasn't been necessary for us in T6 whatsoever.
I think the unique problem to why T7 is 'easy' is because it was launched now and not, say, 3 months ago. Now, even ftp who have been playing for months have pretty extensive rosters with lots of geared and starred up toons ripe and ready for completing a T7 raid. If raids were launched 3 months ago, we may only have started hearing about successful p2p guilds and everyone would have been excited waiting to hear about the first successful ftp guild. But that didn't happen, so everyone has labelled T7 'easy'.
For the sake of comparison, just imagine what T7 looks like to ftp players starting now. It'll be six months before they can have a crack at it. I doubt they'd say it looks easy...
Good point, Perspective is everything.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
@Naecabon I agree, the gap between ftp and ptp has widened massively when, as you said, 'they introduced purple gear for crystals in shipments'. But that wasn't the point of my post
I was just commenting on whether ftp should consider T7 easy or not, and why some ftp have said it is. I should have said none of this applies to big-time p2p spenders. Also, I thought a purely ftp guild said they'd completed T7 the other day?
Interesting about the definition of a whale though. I've tried to stop using it because it seems to me too many people use it with strong negative connotations.
@Naecabon , sorry but I find "keep it a joke so I don't have to spend time here" not a persuasive argument. This is the exact same argument that is used to ask for everything to be made easier and I don't approve of it there so I can approve of it here.
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
I'm not necessarily convinced that T7 is 'easy' per se. If you have a huge roster then yes, it may well seem super easy and it's all about racing against your teammates for how to deal the most damage. For my guild, however, I believe T7 is currently out of reach - it takes us just over 5 days to complete T6. Depending on when we do get round to attempting T7, it probably will be a major challenge, because it will require coordination - something that hasn't been necessary for us in T6 whatsoever.
I think the unique problem to why T7 is 'easy' is because it was launched now and not, say, 3 months ago. Now, even ftp who have been playing for months have pretty extensive rosters with lots of geared and starred up toons ripe and ready for completing a T7 raid. If raids were launched 3 months ago, we may only have started hearing about successful p2p guilds and everyone would have been excited waiting to hear about the first successful ftp guild. But that didn't happen, so everyone has labelled T7 'easy'.
For the sake of comparison, just imagine what T7 looks like to ftp players starting now. It'll be six months before they can have a crack at it. I doubt they'd say it looks easy...
T7 is easy with an appropriate amount of whales in your guild.
The guild patch opened up a new door for whales, and people have been talking about it in the forums and on Reddit but a lot of people still don't really appreciate or realize the full scope of the new Shipments. When they introduced purple gear for crystals in Shipments, they widened the gap between FTP and P2P by a canyon. The gap is HUGE now. FTP didn't seem to care / believe it because for some reason, they compare Squad Arena strength a lot of the time and the arguments were "They still just field a group of five, who cares."
Well, people are starting to see the effects of that Shipments change now. The overall strength of a tried and true whale vs a FTP in raiding is insane. It would have already been a wide gap before, but Shipments just put it over the edge. I've probably progressed more on my roster since the guild patch than I did all total since the game launch.
When you have a couple whales T7 is doable. When you have none, it's probably a very legit challenge. When you have a LOT of whales, it's easy.
And when I say whale I mean the literal definition of the term in the gaming industry - a whale is someone that just buys everything with no bearing on the cost. If there's a new aurodium or chromium, you buy it. If there's gear in shipments, you buy it. You refresh shipments until 900+ every day. You buy energy until you're more or less maxed on refreshes, every day. That's a whale. With enough of those people, yeah T7 isn't that hard. Why would it be?
Agreed 110%! The disparity that gear in shipments brought is absolutely huge! I have no idea what the heck they are doing contributing to further disparity with the unequal raid rewards. They need to lower the cost of the Mk5 and increase the droprate on the purples and make the raid rewards EQUAL! Stop being worried that we 'advance too fast'. At the pace we are going we won't even come close in a year to 20% of what a whale has now! And stop contributing to further disparity with uneven rewards!
Same issue goes with how guild daily rewards are distributed.
They say "Your guild is as strong as your weakest member", but I don't see how giving close to nothing to the last ppl in a daily would improve their performance, while those at top keep fighting trying to beat each other.
You unlock T5 dailies? Everyone gets X.
You unlock T7 dailies? Everyone gets Y.
That would actually help the guild to grow.
I just want to chime in on a couple of issues I consider to be the biggest with raids.
#1. First and foremost, the biggest problem with raids is the 3 a.m. reset. Raids should reset 24 hours after they're started, or at a reasonable time in the guild leaders time zone if the former is not possible for some reason. I consider this a huge issue relative to all other issues.
#2. Raid gear rewards. I completely understand the desire to slow down the farm for characters. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. My problem is the randomness. I want hololenses right now. I don't want purple discs, or whatever else the unobtainable stuff is. I'm glad you can buy specific gear in the guild shop. I think you should be able to raid for specific gear. When I farm stun cuffs, I'm not farming a chance for a stun cuff or a stun cuff equivalent item. It should be the same with raids. In its current form, I will get 3 different pieces of unobtainable gear at roughly the same time. It will take three times as long. It's more fun to target what you want and progress toward it.
Tldr: raid reset time changed asap. Raid drop types of gear less random.
Same issue goes with how guild daily rewards are distributed.
They say "Your guild is as strong as your weakest member", but I don't see how giving close to nothing to the last ppl in a daily would improve their performance, while those at top keep fighting trying to beat each other.
You unlock T5 dailies? Everyone gets X.
You unlock T7 dailies? Everyone gets Y.
That would actually help the guild to grow.
@Vinz - Stop it man.....you're making too much sense
Every time I get the urge to drop some $ on this game, I just come yo the forums and remind myself why I won't give CG a dime.
Call it the norm for mobile games, BUT a platform that targets .01% of their player base to produce 99% of the income seems like a total waste of potential.
I want to participate more to my raid, but there's no way on earth I would ever drop 20$ for one piece of gear for one hero. It makes no sense to me.
It was bad enough when it was just gambling on hero packs, now you charge huge amounts of $ to acquire something that a large portion got for free? And those people who precrafted or have no sense of $ have gear that will take the rest of us months to get because the devs reward only those who can do the most damage.
CG, I may not be a whale, but I WANT to give you my money. But every decision you make pushes my wallet farther and farther away.
Go ahead and flame me, I'm sure lots of you out there think I'm an ****.
@Mp44 I can guarantee you that whoever pre-crafted furnaces didn't do it for free. Don't think there was a single f2p that just happened to have 50 syringes just lying there. Not to mention more than 50...
@Mp44 I can guarantee you that whoever pre-crafted furnaces didn't do it for free. Don't think there was a single f2p that just happened to have 50 syringes just lying there. Not to mention more than 50...
Except that furnaces were dirt cheap and were used in several key heroes.
@Mp44 I can guarantee you that whoever pre-crafted furnaces didn't do it for free. Don't think there was a single f2p that just happened to have 50 syringes just lying there. Not to mention more than 50...
Except that furnaces were dirt cheap and were used in several key heroes.
Syringes weren't in challenges back then...So no, they weren't dirt cheap at all.
@Mp44 I can guarantee you that whoever pre-crafted furnaces didn't do it for free. Don't think there was a single f2p that just happened to have 50 syringes just lying there. Not to mention more than 50...
Except that furnaces were dirt cheap and were used in several key heroes.
Syringes weren't in challenges back then...So no, they weren't dirt cheap at all.
They slowed us down so they can develop and stop people from getting bored and having everything.
The problem with that is since the devs promoted precrafting for quick crystals sales, those struggling to get to gear 9 will suffer in the arena that much longer. While we're slowly working towards those droid callers, the precrafters are slowly working towards gear 10 and 11 if they aren't there already.
The current system has created a gap where certain players will have an advantage for who knows how long. For at least several months until everyone reaches the gear cap for level 80 or perhaps forever.
Replies
Until the raid there was NOTHING in this game that was actually a game - fun, challenging. Now we have a raid that is, at t6, but t7 sounds like a total joke. I wanted something more challenging to look forward to as we got better. Not a Seven Star check that otherwise is easier.
Real life balancing is important but forcing it because there's nothing to do is a sign of failure on the part of the Developers. If I'm only going to play 30 minutes out of every 48 hours then I don't even see what the point is of trying to get better at this. That means reduced fun for me and reduced income for the Developers.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Agreed
have to disagree here. since when did players expect a mobile title to have the time requirements of a console? (I'm assuming you want a more meaningful experience)
I think there is some middle ground somewhere between 30 minute zergs of the top end game content in the game and making it impossible.
I still play the game a lot! If anything I spend the week getting ready for the next raid.
When the raids are long, it's boring, frankly. It's a ton of resetting via retreating for "the best attempts" over and over. It goes on and on. Tier VI is "funner" because your attacks actually do stuff and debuffs actually work etc, but there's a lot of fun in the 15-20 minute Heroic zerg at the moment for me.
I tinker with teams and plan out my best efforts on each of the phases during the week, because with guilds being all about that leaderboard right now, we have tons of pretty chill and friendly competition. By being fast, you don't have time to retreat. You don't have time to sit there re-doing the match fifty times for that one flawless attempt. You basically have to boot up and have at it, and retreating is scary - the phase might be dead!
This all-or-nothing approach on the attempts makes every raid feel fresh and alive. There's more excitement for me in that 15 minutes knowing everything is on the line than there is of 3 hours of retreating / re-attempting. It just feels like a real representation of our efforts when we all get, say, one solid P1 attempt. Very few of us ever squeeze in two, and there's even strategy in designing teams that can try to take advantage of that, too!
I currently have zero problems with the Heroic content. It's funny, but it seems people that AREN'T doing it have more problems with it than those that are, which comes across as very odd to me. I have absolutely no problems with clearing it fast and the rewards are great! Why spend hours when you can finish it quicker? Just makes no sense to me.
My 2 cents... I don't think you two are necessarily disagreeing with each other. If T7 was harder and longer (twss), but spread over multiple days, then it'd fulfil Qeltar's criteria of being a more meaningful challenge at the same time as not being overly time-consuming on a day to day basic (Naec's point).
Although if that was the case, then I suppose T7 would just be like T6...
this is exactly what I communicated to our guild. a ally daily time investment, but spread over a few days to make it 'worthwhile.' heroic raids are just...not quite there. I like the time investment for t6 personally, but the rewards for heroic
That said, at least it's something new for a while.
@Naecabon mentioned the rewards being great in heroic. But Heroic seems "easy" based on the guilds that are doing it so fast. So why are the rewards that much better in T7 than they are in T6? Again it comes down to rewards not being sufficient across the tiers. The rules differentiate the two tiers (2 day limit, no character refresh, 7 stars needed, etc.). It almost makes them seem like two different challenges altogether. If T7 is easier than t6 in some ways so why don't they have the same rewards? A solution would be that they fix the rewards to be the same in t6 as they are in t7, han shards and gear included...
I'm not necessarily convinced that T7 is 'easy' per se. If you have a huge roster then yes, it may well seem super easy and it's all about racing against your teammates for how to deal the most damage. For my guild, however, I believe T7 is currently out of reach - it takes us just over 5 days to complete T6. Depending on when we do get round to attempting T7, it probably will be a major challenge, because it will require coordination - something that hasn't been necessary for us in T6 whatsoever.
I think the unique problem to why T7 is 'easy' is because it was launched now and not, say, 3 months ago. Now, even ftp who have been playing for months have pretty extensive rosters with lots of geared and starred up toons ripe and ready for completing a T7 raid. If raids were launched 3 months ago, we may only have started hearing about successful p2p guilds and everyone would have been excited waiting to hear about the first successful ftp guild. But that didn't happen, so everyone has labelled T7 'easy'.
For the sake of comparison, just imagine what T7 looks like to ftp players starting now. It'll be six months before they can have a crack at it. I doubt they'd say it looks easy...
I totally agree with you. This is a coordinate competitive guild system instead of a cooperative one. There is a lot of tension in the guild. I have tried to ask the more damaging players to keep their attack for the enraged fase and let the lower players to attack in the normal state to increase their damage output. But was impossible, people only want to gent nº 1.
A pity
Should be changed,
The reward system is broken. It's starting to cause tensions in my guild, too.
T7 is easy with an appropriate amount of whales in your guild.
The guild patch opened up a new door for whales, and people have been talking about it in the forums and on Reddit but a lot of people still don't really appreciate or realize the full scope of the new Shipments. When they introduced purple gear for crystals in Shipments, they widened the gap between FTP and P2P by a canyon. The gap is HUGE now. FTP didn't seem to care / believe it because for some reason, they compare Squad Arena strength a lot of the time and the arguments were "They still just field a group of five, who cares."
Well, people are starting to see the effects of that Shipments change now. The overall strength of a tried and true whale vs a FTP in raiding is insane. It would have already been a wide gap before, but Shipments just put it over the edge. I've probably progressed more on my roster since the guild patch than I did all total since the game launch.
When you have a couple whales T7 is doable. When you have none, it's probably a very legit challenge. When you have a LOT of whales, it's easy.
And when I say whale I mean the literal definition of the term in the gaming industry - a whale is someone that just buys everything with no bearing on the cost. If there's a new aurodium or chromium, you buy it. If there's gear in shipments, you buy it. You refresh shipments until 900+ every day. You buy energy until you're more or less maxed on refreshes, every day. That's a whale. With enough of those people, yeah T7 isn't that hard. Why would it be?
As I said, we just have different views on this. The above sounds to me like a complete nightmare.
The sad thing is that as soon as we can do this everyone in the guild will want to only do T7 and then I will be stuck with this silly zerg system that leaves me with nothing to do most ot the time -- exactly where I was before the raid.
I don't want the game to be my life. I also don't want to sit down with a couple of hours to kill in the evening and have nothing to do. Everything you have said reinforces in my mind that T7 is a complete failure. It may be what you are looking for (good rewards for little effort and lots of intra-guild competition). It is not what I and many others are looking for: a real challenge where the guild works together to get a difficult task done.
Good point, Perspective is everything.
I was just commenting on whether ftp should consider T7 easy or not, and why some ftp have said it is. I should have said none of this applies to big-time p2p spenders. Also, I thought a purely ftp guild said they'd completed T7 the other day?
Interesting about the definition of a whale though. I've tried to stop using it because it seems to me too many people use it with strong negative connotations.
Agreed 110%! The disparity that gear in shipments brought is absolutely huge! I have no idea what the heck they are doing contributing to further disparity with the unequal raid rewards. They need to lower the cost of the Mk5 and increase the droprate on the purples and make the raid rewards EQUAL! Stop being worried that we 'advance too fast'. At the pace we are going we won't even come close in a year to 20% of what a whale has now! And stop contributing to further disparity with uneven rewards!
They say "Your guild is as strong as your weakest member", but I don't see how giving close to nothing to the last ppl in a daily would improve their performance, while those at top keep fighting trying to beat each other.
You unlock T5 dailies? Everyone gets X.
You unlock T7 dailies? Everyone gets Y.
That would actually help the guild to grow.
#1. First and foremost, the biggest problem with raids is the 3 a.m. reset. Raids should reset 24 hours after they're started, or at a reasonable time in the guild leaders time zone if the former is not possible for some reason. I consider this a huge issue relative to all other issues.
#2. Raid gear rewards. I completely understand the desire to slow down the farm for characters. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. My problem is the randomness. I want hololenses right now. I don't want purple discs, or whatever else the unobtainable stuff is. I'm glad you can buy specific gear in the guild shop. I think you should be able to raid for specific gear. When I farm stun cuffs, I'm not farming a chance for a stun cuff or a stun cuff equivalent item. It should be the same with raids. In its current form, I will get 3 different pieces of unobtainable gear at roughly the same time. It will take three times as long. It's more fun to target what you want and progress toward it.
Tldr: raid reset time changed asap. Raid drop types of gear less random.
@Vinz - Stop it man.....you're making too much sense
Call it the norm for mobile games, BUT a platform that targets .01% of their player base to produce 99% of the income seems like a total waste of potential.
I want to participate more to my raid, but there's no way on earth I would ever drop 20$ for one piece of gear for one hero. It makes no sense to me.
It was bad enough when it was just gambling on hero packs, now you charge huge amounts of $ to acquire something that a large portion got for free? And those people who precrafted or have no sense of $ have gear that will take the rest of us months to get because the devs reward only those who can do the most damage.
CG, I may not be a whale, but I WANT to give you my money. But every decision you make pushes my wallet farther and farther away.
Go ahead and flame me, I'm sure lots of you out there think I'm an ****.
Except that furnaces were dirt cheap and were used in several key heroes.
Syringes weren't in challenges back then...So no, they weren't dirt cheap at all.
FWIW I have been discussing this issue with a dev. Bottom line: don't expect any changes any time soon here.
Ah well. Info in either direction is better than nothing. Thanks
I apologize, I meant droid callers.
The problem with that is since the devs promoted precrafting for quick crystals sales, those struggling to get to gear 9 will suffer in the arena that much longer. While we're slowly working towards those droid callers, the precrafters are slowly working towards gear 10 and 11 if they aren't there already.
The current system has created a gap where certain players will have an advantage for who knows how long. For at least several months until everyone reaches the gear cap for level 80 or perhaps forever.