QGJ doesn't fix the Poe Problem. W2G~

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    pay2win wrote: »
    Naecabon wrote: »
    pay2win wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    pay2win wrote: »
    This is a great decision. Adding a Chromium only character every so often to F2P will keep them around. It's not like they aren't going to release a new OP character soon for the big spenders.

    It's a great business decision overall. Still do not affect Poe at all, and those who think it does, don't understand the problem.

    Change Poe's skill to "at 143 speed, enemy lose 25% turn meter so your whole team act first, and stun 1 random enemy, with no chance to resist. If QGJ is present, then it's not random, stun him." Do you think it's balanced?

    The Devs haven't given a reason for choosing QGJ over other chromiums. The person who created this thread just created a straw man so he could rant and push an agenda.

    As taken from the wiki page on the definition of "straw man argument"
    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

    There was no initial argument to begin with, so I'm not sure how voicing my opinion on what CG is doing with the QGJ thing can be taken as a straw man.

    I presented a timeline of events based on my observations and concluded on a theory of what's happening as a result of it. A lot of other people responding in this thread are pretty masterful at straw man arguments, though...

    Either way, what is with this word agenda lately? What agenda? Do you guys even have an agenda in mind? Can you tell me what my secret agenda was? What could I possibly be asking for besides what I clearly said was bothering me. Is my agenda to ask CG for more transparency? Is that even an agenda? How many times can I say agenda in this paragraph?

    You misrepresenting CG's release of QGJ to Cantina Shipments as a shoddy way of countering Poe, is exactly what a straw man is. You created a fictional argument by assuming CGs actions were based on Poe.

    This isn't about transparency. Its pretty obvious you lost value on QGJ shards. If CG ever implement a tiered shard exchange based on rarity, QGJ becoming farmable is a bad thing for you.

    Its a bad thing for everyone. There is no fictional argument, its his POV which he is entitled to express.
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    pay2win wrote: »
    Naecabon wrote: »
    pay2win wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    pay2win wrote: »
    This is a great decision. Adding a Chromium only character every so often to F2P will keep them around. It's not like they aren't going to release a new OP character soon for the big spenders.

    It's a great business decision overall. Still do not affect Poe at all, and those who think it does, don't understand the problem.

    Change Poe's skill to "at 143 speed, enemy lose 25% turn meter so your whole team act first, and stun 1 random enemy, with no chance to resist. If QGJ is present, then it's not random, stun him." Do you think it's balanced?

    The Devs haven't given a reason for choosing QGJ over other chromiums. The person who created this thread just created a straw man so he could rant and push an agenda.

    As taken from the wiki page on the definition of "straw man argument"
    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

    There was no initial argument to begin with, so I'm not sure how voicing my opinion on what CG is doing with the QGJ thing can be taken as a straw man.

    I presented a timeline of events based on my observations and concluded on a theory of what's happening as a result of it. A lot of other people responding in this thread are pretty masterful at straw man arguments, though...

    Either way, what is with this word agenda lately? What agenda? Do you guys even have an agenda in mind? Can you tell me what my secret agenda was? What could I possibly be asking for besides what I clearly said was bothering me. Is my agenda to ask CG for more transparency? Is that even an agenda? How many times can I say agenda in this paragraph?

    You misrepresenting CG's release of QGJ to Cantina Shipments as a shoddy way of countering Poe, is exactly what a straw man is. You created a fictional argument by assuming CGs actions were based on Poe.

    This isn't about transparency. Its pretty obvious you lost value on QGJ shards. If CG ever implement a tiered shard exchange based on rarity, QGJ becoming farmable is a bad thing for you.

    Its a bad thing for everyone. There is no fictional argument, its his POV which he is entitled to express.

    What's bad for everyone?
  • Options
    Devaluing shards
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    Just double checked my post, and as I'd thought, not a single mention of me being unhappy with QGJ as a Cantina Shipment. No mention of being mad about shard value, no mention at all of me thinking he was never going to become a f2p character. Not a peep.

    There's this one sentence:
    - This angers A LOT of P2P players that considered QGJ their only real "edge" in paying for this game

    which I admit could be mistakenly taken as if I am indeed one of these people as well (I'm not). The context of this statement was to show that the action DID upset people out there (a lot of my team were not happy about it) and CG certainly knew it would upset people doing it ninja quick like they did, so why do it if that's going to be the result? Why not make an announcement and space it out? Beeeecause it was a fix, not a feature.

    Even still none of this has anything to do with me caring at all about QGJ or his "value", so for the 1041195710 time please stop bringing this up in my thread.
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    Devaluing shards

    Maybe they didn't have any more value to begin with? This could have very well been their plan from day 1.

    Extra shards had zero value until they officially announced a shard exchange. That was 4 days ago.
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    1041195710 That's a huge number. Check this out,1041195711. **** son i crushed your number
    https://youtube.com/user/MurdaDeadpool/videos Subscribe and follow me here teaminstinct.net/ Home to Team Instinct
  • Rheen
    269 posts Member
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    1041195710 That's a huge number. Check this out,1041195711. **** son i crushed your number

    OH SNAP!!!
    Guide to Beating Galactic War from Team Instinct
    TeamInstinct.net -- Community Site and Home to Team Instinct
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    Naecabon wrote: »
    Just double checked my post, and as I'd thought, not a single mention of me being unhappy with QGJ as a Cantina Shipment. No mention of being mad about shard value, no mention at all of me thinking he was never going to become a f2p character. Not a peep.

    There's this one sentence:
    - This angers A LOT of P2P players that considered QGJ their only real "edge" in paying for this game

    which I admit could be mistakenly taken as if I am indeed one of these people as well (I'm not). The context of this statement was to show that the action DID upset people out there (a lot of my team were not happy about it) and CG certainly knew it would upset people doing it ninja quick like they did, so why do it if that's going to be the result? Why not make an announcement and space it out? Beeeecause it was a fix, not a feature.

    Even still none of this has anything to do with me caring at all about QGJ or his "value", so for the 1041195710 time please stop bringing this up in my thread.

    Some only get your meaning through pictures, as words are difficult. Perhaps more pictures are in order to show what you mean!
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
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    CronozNL wrote: »
    So now we are debating about what we think the release date should be? This is EXACTLY why they don't do it and I can't blame them.
    Some want a month, some a week, some a year. There is no compromise and I understand why they would refrain from doing so.

    That's fine. Do you understand why some people would refrain to spend more money?
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    1041195710 That's a huge number. Check this out,1041195711. **** son i crushed your number

    yiPnal3.png
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Options
    pay2win wrote: »
    Triqui wrote: »
    pay2win wrote: »
    This is a great decision. Adding a Chromium only character every so often to F2P will keep them around. It's not like they aren't going to release a new OP character soon for the big spenders.

    It's a great business decision overall. Still do not affect Poe at all, and those who think it does, don't understand the problem.

    Change Poe's skill to "at 143 speed, enemy lose 25% turn meter so your whole team act first, and stun 1 random enemy, with no chance to resist. If QGJ is present, then it's not random, stun him." Do you think it's balanced?

    The Devs haven't given a reason for choosing QGJ over other chromiums. The person who created this thread just created a straw man so he could rant and push an agenda.

    Fine then. Let's hope Poe's ridiculous Time Walking skill thst sllows the whole team to act before the oponent still gets the nerf he deserves
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    Never a good sign when the forums are more entertaining than the game.
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    Never a good sign when the forums are more entertaining than the game.

    So true, I'm neglecting my energy spending. haha
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    Before people jump in to say that whales are upset because QGJ is now free to everyone, I litterally suggested making exclusive chars to everyone just a few days ago. What I did not expect is it s so easy to get. Come on be more creative and put it in a challenging mode instead of letting anyone who can press the sim button can get him. Give him some love. So thinking that whales in general against this is an unfound assumpsion.

    What irks me most is they did this out of no where, which bring back my memory of how they milked us Now it s your turn (unless you are completely F2P).

    Yes, they dont have to announce update a week or 2!before releasing it as someone said (so to get more $ you say). Guess what there are a lot of things that they dont have to do which would make you just as upset as the Op. Prepare for that! As competent whales in many games, we expect certain things such as anannouncement before an important update is one of them, I thought it s true for F2P as well. Btw, they will eventually make you upset which ever group you are in, so OP s sentiment is understandable
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    davida8546 wrote: »
    Before people jump in to say that whales are upset because QGJ is now free to everyone, I litterally suggested making exclusive chars to everyone just a few days ago. What I did not expect is it s so easy to get. Come on be more creative and put it in a challenging mode instead of letting anyone who can press the sim button can get him. Give him some love. So thinking that whales in general against this is an unfound assumpsion.

    What irks me most is they did this out of no where, which bring back my memory of how they milked us Now it s your turn (unless you are completely F2P).

    Yes, they dont have to announce update a week or 2!before releasing it as someone said (so to get more $ you say). Guess what there are a lot of things that they dont have to do which would make you just as upset as the Op. Prepare for that! As competent whales in many games, we expect certain things such as anannouncement before an important update is one of them, I thought it s true for F2P as well. Btw, they will eventually make you upset which ever group you are in, so OP s sentiment is understandable

    They've been pretty informant about the next important update. We already know there will be an exclusive character added along with a shard exchange. There is more they haven't announced yet but the Part 1 preview implies they have more to come.
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    Dont you see that they reveal the part that makes more money (it implies more value/$spent for spenders) and hide this part until the last day (because they are desperate for quick $ and have to milk the last person). Just an assumption but it seems to be apparent to many whales or medium spenders especially those trying to 7* him last night. It wouldnt change much other wise but as I said this adds up and we are happy to join F2P groups. Save money, yay!
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    edited January 2016
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    Naecabon wrote: »
    Just double checked my post, and as I'd thought, not a single mention of me being unhappy with QGJ as a Cantina Shipment. No mention of being mad about shard value, no mention at all of me thinking he was never going to become a f2p character. Not a peep.

    There's this one sentence:
    - This angers A LOT of P2P players that considered QGJ their only real "edge" in paying for this game

    which I admit could be mistakenly taken as if I am indeed one of these people as well (I'm not). The context of this statement was to show that the action DID upset people out there (a lot of my team were not happy about it) and CG certainly knew it would upset people doing it ninja quick like they did, so why do it if that's going to be the result? Why not make an announcement and space it out? Beeeecause it was a fix, not a feature.

    Even still none of this has anything to do with me caring at all about QGJ or his "value", so for the 1041195710 time please stop bringing this up in my thread.

    And this is exactly what I mean when you are contradicting yourself again and again:

    "QGJ being released as a Cantina Shipment!
    F2P Rejoice! Whales vomit in their mouths! Everyone wins!"
    "I'm not even going to touch on the absurdity of releasing QGJ"


    How can I not read this as a ridiculous insult towards the release of QGJ. Am I reading your posts better than yourself? At least I'm glad you tried to reflect, guess my post had some meaning.


    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited January 2016
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    @xJazzx

    Fighting against the AI - dumb or not - what's that matter?

    Also, didn't have just good RNG - tested multiple times - saw good and bad along with average RNG.

    Quick preview, but since I was in a decent state to test this build, I've fought 3 different iterations of teams that had Poe / FOTP / Jinn / GS ... each team altering the 5th toon with something different. Total number of battles: 16 Total number of wins: 11. That's nearly a 70% win rate vs. those 4 guys using none of them.

    One squad I'm 3/3 against - that seems pretty solid, but likely 100% is too high. Another squad I'm 4/5 against - again that may be a tad high...and the 3rd that is the toughest that I've tested today, I'm 4/8 against that build - I think long-run as I test more it will be a 55-60% win rate. Again, I'm using NO FOTP / Jinn / GS or Poe ... and each of these teams have high level 7* rank #1 caliber built FOTP / Jinn / GS / Poe on them. I don't have videos, but I do have screen shots showing the battles at key points. Once people see the screen shots it will make sense.

    @Qeltar - you'll be happy to see this. Health is closing the gap in this level cap. I'd expect it to continue to do so at higher levels as many of the skills on attacks are getting tapped out - most toons have max skill level of 8 and we're already at 6/7 now - there's not much more to go for damage increases on skills. You know I've posted before that I thought that game was too offensive heavy balanced and speed balanced. I didn't disagree with you on that, but more disagreed about FOTP specifically and pointing to one specific toon. Now I'm not so sure. Honestly. I really think we just need to build stuff and see where it goes. I think we as a group in general had just focused too much on moderate to low health toons - or toons that were extremes (Barriss) for good health but not a lot of damage.

    @CronozNL - I'll be giving you a shout out - I don't have Vent built - but your videos sparked the thought process and when combined with what I was working on to counter this Poe build before, was a perfect marriage. So thanks for your video posts.

    Hope to have detailed post on this by end of the night. Still wrapping up busy work day.

    @Naecabon - I did enjoy those edited pics...:) Thanks for the laughs.
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    edited January 2016
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    @Triqui
    Yes I understand but I'm sure the sarcasm wasn't productive nor speaking for the "majority".
    I think Naecabon is an addition to the forum most of time. I simply don't agree with the way he presents it lately.
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
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    I have been looking for Nae's agendas...
    Has anyone seen them?
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    QGJ can theoretically remove the taunt and give you an offense up, which could help...if QGJ can survive the first round, which he generally doesn't. He can also be resisted while poes two most powerful aspects (speed and turn meter manipulation ) can not be. He is a character that could possibly turn the tide in your favor if somehow the RNG was already working in your favor.

    The reality is all this change did was ensure more QGJ standing behind poe, not countering him.

    If you think they just randomly decided to add QGJ to cantina shipments you are ridiculous. The timing was suspicious, they have another patch coming out on Thursday and they have the big patch coming out in February. They could have easily waited. This is just another example of them doing random things they thought up at lunch.
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    Naecabon wrote: »
    If you can't reflect on your own ranting but just counter everything with another question, be my guest and keep doing this.

    Why do I need to reflect on my own post? I enjoy commenting on the absurd replies my posts get more than the post itself half of the time. A lot of them completely miss the point and make straw man responses, some make accusatory statements that don't even fit the nature of the post (P2W CRYING! ...what? how does me being p2w or f2p have anything to do with my stance on the issue I wrote about..) and a bunch try to fan the flames of the p2w / f2p arguments.

    Look, you guys don't get it. I don't give a crap. QGJ being f2p isn't bothering me at all. It's the nature of the move and the backwards logic of sneaking this out as a Poe fix without even communicating that either that's bothering me.

    jtnyPDv.jpg

    See, look. I have three 7* QGJs just hanging out in my pocket right now. I was buying packs with him out of the way a loooong time ago. Stop making this about p2w/f2p.

    I don't say this often but holy moly you weren't kidding when you said you're whaliest of the whale that ever did swim. Can I have some?.
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    Devaluing shards
    pay2win wrote: »
    Devaluing shards

    Maybe they didn't have any more value to begin with? This could have very well been their plan from day 1.

    Extra shards had zero value until they officially announced a shard exchange. That was 4 days ago.

    True, but one can assume readily available shards will have less value than exclusive shards. So I deduce, my 250 extra QGJ shards will be worth less now when the exchange goes live.
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    Fixing glaring issues isn't the style for the dev team behind this game so nobody should be surprised they didn't work on the Poe thing and just did this.

    As for any p2w people being all upset a character they had access to is now available to everyone...get over it. If you don't like the idea the majority (yes whales, the majority are those who don't pay or pay a minimal amount) can actually have another character now that will help them then too bad. I have zero sympathy for people who try and buy their way to the top/best rewards in areas of life and in games, and often try and brag about it like they've done something special by opening their wallets. I am sure some simple minded folk will just assume I am envious of those that have the means to do it but I have the means to do it and I simply don't since I find it pointless and unrewarding. Then again, I wasn't born in the late 80s or 90s so I actually don't need to have nor was I raised to have instant gratification with little work put in. Maybe I'm just assuming but I gather most p2w whales are in their 20s or earlier.
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    d3gauss wrote: »
    This is just another example of them doing random things they thought up at lunch.

    random things that make most of the their customers population happy my..
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    shimsham wrote: »
    Fixing glaring issues isn't the style for the dev team behind this game so nobody should be surprised they didn't work on the Poe thing and just did this.

    As for any p2w people being all upset a character they had access to is now available to everyone...get over it. If you don't like the idea the majority (yes whales, the majority are those who don't pay or pay a minimal amount) can actually have another character now that will help them then too bad. I have zero sympathy for people who try and buy their way to the top/best rewards in areas of life and in games, and often try and brag about it like they've done something special by opening their wallets. I am sure some simple minded folk will just assume I am envious of those that have the means to do it but I have the means to do it and I simply don't since I find it pointless and unrewarding. Then again, I wasn't born in the late 80s or 90s so I actually don't need to have nor was I raised to have instant gratification with little work put in. Maybe I'm just assuming but I gather most p2w whales are in their 20s or earlier.

    Your assumption is huge and mostly wrong. Read the posts.

    About age, many people I know are in the 30-40, who actually have disposable income.

    Most whales don't brag about opening their wallets (there are few exceptions but isn't the same can be said about F2P?)
  • CronozNL
    2869 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Options
    shimsham wrote: »
    Fixing glaring issues isn't the style for the dev team behind this game so nobody should be surprised they didn't work on the Poe thing and just did this.

    As for any p2w people being all upset a character they had access to is now available to everyone...get over it. If you don't like the idea the majority (yes whales, the majority are those who don't pay or pay a minimal amount) can actually have another character now that will help them then too bad. I have zero sympathy for people who try and buy their way to the top/best rewards in areas of life and in games, and often try and brag about it like they've done something special by opening their wallets. I am sure some simple minded folk will just assume I am envious of those that have the means to do it but I have the means to do it and I simply don't since I find it pointless and unrewarding. Then again, I wasn't born in the late 80s or 90s so I actually don't need to have nor was I raised to have instant gratification with little work put in. Maybe I'm just assuming but I gather most p2w whales are in their 20s or earlier.


    Great philosophy but why bring up the 80's generation :(
    I'm an 80's kid but I don't want instant gratification.. Playing Clash of C over 2 years with a lot of time and work spend on it. I also work my bottem off 40h a week. Never got this generation thing.

    My (j/k) assumption: You are older and have benefitted from the aftermath of WWII. Times where there were plenty of jobs and steady contracts. Houseprices were ridiculously low and pensions were skyhigh. Now with all the money in the older generation their pockets, our generation having lesser means to buy the houses you bought years ago for half or even a quarter of the price. In todays society the majority of 20/30 yr olds can't afford to buy those houses and people can't sell it. Crisis in a nutshell.
    Completely off topic but I actually am intriged by that message. Funnily I agree but being an 80's kid myself forces me to ask :)
    439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
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    xJazzx wrote: »
    d3gauss wrote: »
    This is just another example of them doing random things they thought up at lunch.

    random things that make most of the their customers population happy my..

    Are you reading the same forums as I am?
    Star Wars: Galaxy of Supporting Cast Members
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    I think all characters should be available via shipments AND farming.

    The Chromium packs are simply a 'go faster' option for me. It's for those willing to spend to get the characters ASAP instead of in 1-3months.

    I firmly believe that QGJ should not have been the only Chromium moved to a shipment table (and, that he should have been put in GW where he belonged, not Cantina). They should have moved Darth Maul and others as well.

    The Arena (and to an extent GW) is going to always be 'broken' as long as their are Chromium only toons out there. It means there will _never_ be a level playing field (Poe arguments aside). It will always be rock vs rock for the top wallet warriors regardless and it will always be an uphill battle of random luck and placement for the f2p people. This is why I argue that regardless of your feelings on Poe, it really does not matter (whether you buy their being a counter or not). The only way to lessen the effect of specific synergies is to lessen the damage being done (which has the unpleasant side effect of making fights drag on longer than most would prefer and making the 5min draw a much more common occurrence in Arena... I have a fix for that that I will be starting a new thread on shortly, btw).

    The highest value item in this game is TIME. That's what all the Chromiums, Crystals, etc., need to be focused on. Not locking a few elite toons behind paywalls that breaks the game across the board.
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    What if the devs just decide that speed leadership works in Arena or God forbid they make it that poe doesn't taunt on his first turn. Either one of those would make picking poe on your team a hard choice imo.
    I'm with @JohnnySteelAlpha on there r ways to get around this. I'm a complete ftp player and I have about a 20% win ratio on the current poe meta. I really wish Johnny would not release these videos and let ppl figure it out on there own. I don't use poe, ftp, Rey or anyone else from hard nodes either. That win ratio is also with 2 6* toons so it is completely possible.
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