Star Wars: The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

Replies

  • Leparine
    38 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    @GloriousFool

    It´s actually funny how people are trying over and over again to convince other people that TLJ should be hated . I LOVED it! xD If it´s about Disney and money-grabbing, do you think they would approve a script, that has so much potential to drive fans insane crazy? no no. It actually is the rare case of an independant!-blockbuster-movie because in fact Rian Johnson wrote the script comletely alone freakin´ 3 years ago (yes, before theories). No significant changes were made during approval, because they thought is was amazing, because RJ didn´t come up with mainstream-transformers-garbage and did something creative, compelling and new. You want to rebel against Disney and cash-grabbing movies? By massively complaining about TLJ you are actually begging for exactly that, mainstream garbage. Are you serious? You want other people to boycott Star Wars? Think what you want, but leave the fans be. Laughing and spitting YOU are, it´s a shame, spare your missionary work. I will not buy a Ticket for SOLO because that will be that kind of movie you´ll like, but I´ll buy the Last Jedi Blue-Ray and the Ticket for Ep. 9!!! \o/

    Ps: Plot holes yeah, Holdo didn´t tell Poe anything. She´s a military commander, of course she´d never tell secret intel to a subordinate! see? Everything ist fine, it just depends on a "certain point of view" (old ben) As a huge Star Wars fan I´ve got a new Star Wars movie i love, you don´t. I have the high ground xD
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Can someone list the plot holes in TLJ?

    Its less that there are plot holes, but more that there are many implausibilities and unnecessary plot beats. (Needless subversions, impractical “chase”, thematic inconsistencies with TFA, etc)
  • Isnt that Star Wars though?
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Isnt that Star Wars though?

    Often yes (which is why TLJ is still pretty high on my list), but that doesn’t excuse it from having flaws when many of those flaws could have been avoided.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Isnt that Star Wars though?

    Often yes (which is why TLJ is still pretty high on my list), but that doesn’t excuse it from having flaws when many of those flaws could have been avoided.

    I've noticed a lot of people suggesting we should give the movie a pass just because some of the older movies had similar elements. As for me, I feel like we should be able to improve on the less than stellar elements of the old movies, not just repeat the same mistakes.

    For example, people have argued that Snoke's character wasn't developed to their liking, and other people counter argue that the Emperor's character was no more developed in the original trilogy than Snoke's had been. That may or may not be the case, but couldn't we realize stuff like this and do better, rather than just repeating something that should have been done better the first time?
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Isnt that Star Wars though?

    Often yes (which is why TLJ is still pretty high on my list), but that doesn’t excuse it from having flaws when many of those flaws could have been avoided.

    I've noticed a lot of people suggesting we should give the movie a pass just because some of the older movies had similar elements. As for me, I feel like we should be able to improve on the less than stellar elements of the old movies, not just repeat the same mistakes.

    For example, people have argued that Snoke's character wasn't developed to their liking, and other people counter argue that the Emperor's character was no more developed in the original trilogy than Snoke's had been. That may or may not be the case, but couldn't we realize stuff like this and do better, rather than just repeating something that should have been done better the first time?

    I didnt say I gave it a pass. I said that despite its flaws, I still think its a better star wars movie than most of what we’ve gotten.

    Also people who compare the treatments of Snoke and the Emperor in their respective films aren’t excusing a flaw and they aren’t calling the emperor’s treatment a flaw. They’re comparing the narrative priorities of the OT and the precedence it established to TLJ. Two different ideas. The films aren’t *about* snoke and the emperor, so we don’t need their life stories. Those characters are catalysts and plot devices who exist in the film’s universe to facilitate the main characters’ stories and relationships, nothing more.
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Isnt that Star Wars though?

    Often yes (which is why TLJ is still pretty high on my list), but that doesn’t excuse it from having flaws when many of those flaws could have been avoided.

    I've noticed a lot of people suggesting we should give the movie a pass just because some of the older movies had similar elements. As for me, I feel like we should be able to improve on the less than stellar elements of the old movies, not just repeat the same mistakes.

    For example, people have argued that Snoke's character wasn't developed to their liking, and other people counter argue that the Emperor's character was no more developed in the original trilogy than Snoke's had been. That may or may not be the case, but couldn't we realize stuff like this and do better, rather than just repeating something that should have been done better the first time?

    I didnt say I gave it a pass. I said that despite its flaws, I still think its a better star wars movie than most of what we’ve gotten.

    Also people who compare the treatments of Snoke and the Emperor in their respective films aren’t excusing a flaw and they aren’t calling the emperor’s treatment a flaw. They’re comparing the narrative priorities of the OT and the precedence it established to TLJ. Two different ideas. The films aren’t *about* snoke and the emperor, so we don’t need their life stories. Those characters are catalysts and plot devices who exist in the film’s universe to facilitate the main characters’ stories and relationships, nothing more.

    Certainly not accusing you of anything. I'm just stating that a lot of people quickly dismiss complaints of Snoke with the similarities of the Emperor. I don't disagree with you when it comes to not needing their life stories. That's certainly not something that interests me.

    When it comes to the original trilogy, I was content with knowing that The Emperor was just the Big Bad who was in charge of this already established Empire because that's the world we were thrust into. I don't ask for a boatload of exposition in Blade Runner about why the world is as it is and how everyone came to be where they are, but when the follow up movie came out, it did at least mention why the new guy in charge is now in charge as opposed to the old regime. Some fragment of information about why Snoke and the First Order were there would have been welcomed, since it's not a new world we're seeing, but an established cinematic universe that we've been following. I suppose in a narrative sense it's well enough to just toss us into a new story with an entirely new setting that we know nothing about, but when the story is so familiar it's a bit disorienting to still be kinda in the dark about what's going on.

    I also feel like these gaps in exposition will be filled in with novels, video games, comic books,and other things that are starting to feel like the movie's version of DLC at this point....
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Isnt that Star Wars though?

    Often yes (which is why TLJ is still pretty high on my list), but that doesn’t excuse it from having flaws when many of those flaws could have been avoided.

    I've noticed a lot of people suggesting we should give the movie a pass just because some of the older movies had similar elements. As for me, I feel like we should be able to improve on the less than stellar elements of the old movies, not just repeat the same mistakes.

    For example, people have argued that Snoke's character wasn't developed to their liking, and other people counter argue that the Emperor's character was no more developed in the original trilogy than Snoke's had been. That may or may not be the case, but couldn't we realize stuff like this and do better, rather than just repeating something that should have been done better the first time?

    I guess I don’t care too much about underdeveloped characters because I know it will be revisited in the books and comics and I enjoy those far more than any of the movies. Tarkin was an underdeveloped character in the OT. Have you read his book? I found it to be fascinating. For me the movies are just a starting point for the Star Wars universe.
  • Exactly, these past two movies are about developing a few characters and it seems people want every character that is on screen 100% developed with a backstory of where they came from and who they are.

    Main characters in this story are Kylo Ren, Rey, Poe and Finn. Others are pretty much there to push their story and development.
  • Leparine wrote: »
    @GloriousFool

    It´s actually funny how people are trying over and over again to convince other people that TLJ should be hated . I LOVED it! xD If it´s about Disney and money-grabbing, do you think they would approve a script, that has so much potential to drive fans insane crazy? no no. It actually is the rare case of an independant!-blockbuster-movie because in fact Rian Johnson wrote the script comletely alone freakin´ 3 years ago (yes, before theories). No significant changes were made during approval, because they thought is was amazing, because RJ didn´t come up with mainstream-transformers-garbage and did something creative, compelling and new. You want to rebel against Disney and cash-grabbing movies? By massively complaining about TLJ you are actually begging for exactly that, mainstream garbage. Are you serious? You want other people to boycott Star Wars? Think what you want, but leave the fans be. Laughing and spitting YOU are, it´s a shame, spare your missionary work. I will not buy a Ticket for SOLO because that will be that kind of movie you´ll like, but I´ll buy the Last Jedi Blue-Ray and the Ticket for Ep. 9!!! \o/

    Ps: Plot holes yeah, Holdo didn´t tell Poe anything. She´s a military commander, of course she´d never tell secret intel to a subordinate! see? Everything ist fine, it just depends on a "certain point of view" (old ben) As a huge Star Wars fan I´ve got a new Star Wars movie i love, you don´t. I have the high ground xD

    Hmmm, characters get built up, plots build up to threat or resolution (force awakens), (now for the last jedi) characters are cut out or changed in way that make them useless or unrelatable, plus plots are forgotten about while new plots make no sense and the movie begins with or leads to an explosive chase, new characters are introduced that serve no purpose really. Tell me, just how is "the last jedi" different from "transformers"? And RJ's script was unaltered, not just during production but long before production?! Mystery solved! I know why the movie sucks, nobody bothered to check his work.

    P.S. Holdo?! You thought she did good?! I went to see the movie with 2 of my cousins, they are both former career military, both told me that any commanding officer would never have done what she did, when poe spoke to her the second time he outright and loudly and clearly questioned her authority and her wisdom, you're right, poe is a subordinate and should follow orders (it was an act of insubordination and first sign of mutiny). She should have had him thrown in a cell right then and there, when a subordinate questions you, you put them in their place or the situation between the 2 will escalate in a bad way, which is what happened. That speaks volumes about holdo's incompetance, and she is the person that leia entrusted the resistance to? An incapable dumb person, that had been introduced as an excellent military commander? Stellar wrighting and plot/character development.
  • Actually about the whole poe holdo thing, i might be remembering it slightly incorrectly, about which time it was poe talked to her and she told him to back off and so. But still she handled that situation poorly and should have at least had people keeping an eye on him, and still when poe committed mutiny she should have made him understand there was a viable plan under way / in the works, but no she did not and we get a dumb plot / character development.
  • Leparine
    38 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    It´s not that I see no flaws in this movie, Finn&Rose for example and I don´t think Holdo did right, I agree that she should´ve told him or atleast put him in a cell, to get the situation under control, like you mentioned. But it´s a story that evolves. She doesn´t tell him at the beginning, because it realisticly wasn´t necessary to risk secret info at that point. But at the end she doesn´t tell him either and that is a mistake she makes, she underestimates him and the situation gets out of control and before you know it it´s too late to tell anyway. She pays the price for it, like many characters in this movie and atleast for me that is fine within the story. I don´t think she is presented as a paradigm. To me failures of main characters is not necessarily bad storytelling, but rather the opposite. To the plots that were cancelled or forgotten: Snoke for example never was the main villain and never stated as that. He was like Saruman or Denethor from Lord of the Rings! Somebody, the main characters have to come by, to move forward in the greater story, which is in this case Kylo´s development. That´s very clever writing and not "transfomersy" at all. Luke was necessary like he was, to make his TFA-disappearance realistic and believable. Many plots HAD to go the way they did because TFA already settled them. I understand, mystery boxes are very dangerous and if you expect a certain solution and don´t get it you hate it. Rey is another example, people are upset because she is not a Kenobi or something else, but if you watch TFA closely, the fact that they are nobodys makes so much perfect sense for her character. The name "Kenobi" would´ve meant absolutely nothing to her. See? People made this questions so important. It was never written with that in mind. RJ wrote it while TFA was shooting. The trilogy is not over yet, RJ even adressed some of JJ´s mystery boxes (Ted Talk Video) and some not, because solving all of them would have swallowed the whole movie. If you are open for different (and for a blockbuster impressively risky ) creative directions and watch it with high standard, but open minded, it all makes perfect sense and becomes one of the best SW-movies ever.
    Post edited by Leparine on
  • Mightily flawed, the Benicio Del Toro character should have been Ezra (or someone like that) to make the scene work, but otherwise, I like it. Leia using the force to survive in outer space fits perfectly because she is DARTH VADER'S DAUGHTER! Luke is perfect, just like he should be. Rey is a nobody, and who cares? Snoke dies because he was a weak character and Kylo Ren is the main bad guy, now solidified as the leader of the first order, so if he is destroyed, the FO will likely fall (maybe some other leaders will arise, but Kylo might kill them first as a precaution). Overall, very good movie with a few flaws
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Please explain how you liked TFA and not TLJ.

    Plot made since. Character arcs weren’t ridiculous and were interesting. Set up a new big villain that had you wondering more about him. Wasn’t overly noticeable packed with more female characters because sjw **** wanted it. I could go on and on. It’s a perfect film for the casual Star Wars fan that isn’t into the lore and history very much.

    How did TLJ plot not make sense? The last of the Resistance was on the run and the FO was about to finish them off.

    The FO could have jumped ahead to trap the fleeing Resistance and end them quickly - they didn't.

    Rey went to Luke for help. He was tired of the Jedi and their superiority complex. Rey got what she needed from him by stealing the Jedi books and learning the truth about Kylo Ren.

    Luke was in Jedi robes at the end of TFA, because he was cut off from the force he couldn't sense Rey coming - why was he in Jedi robes after turning his back on the Jedi? He then immediately runs to his hut and changes into rain coat man. And why did he not join the fight after hearing about Han's death?

    With his knowledge of balance within the force (dark & Light) why not save the galaxy one last time before letting the jedi end, instead he turns his back on everything, friends, family and the galaxy to leave it in darkness just to serve his selfish agenda - This is NOT Luke!!!!

    Luke has a moment thought to kill Ben...why? He went all out risking his own life and the lives of the rebellion and by extension the galaxy to redeem a father he barely knew - why then think t kill your own nephew he has known all his life? Luke gave Rey 2 lessons (he promised 3) - how is she so accomplished? She hasn't even read the books she stole at this point.


    Kylo Ren killed his master and took his place as the Dark Force leader as it has been done for thousands of years. He saw himself in Rey, as she did in him as well, and he wanted her to rule by his side as has been done for ages.

    This is the only thing interesting that E9 has going for it - Vader was never in this position, so it will be interesting how this plays out.

    Rey joins back up with the Resistance and grabs the few that are left and flees into the outer rim.

    Now we have even less Resistance than at the start of the movie and apparently no one else in the galaxy would come to their aid - the FO is still a war machine with the largest force in the galaxy. So resistance are now re-tagging themselves as Rebels - maybe more people in the galaxy will fight under that banner, as the Rebels in this game are OP.

    Now comes episode 9, Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader and will look to finish the Resistance who are now Rebels off.

    In addition to my posts above - Leia had a huge revival scene (that was lame and made her look like Mary Poppins) but bring her back why? She did (essentially) nothing else. Carrie Fisher won't be back for E9 - so her important character and scene of revival was for what exactly?

    Why not re-shoot the end of the movie and have Leia switch places with Holdo? - At least that would have been an epic and fitting end to a wonderful character

    In comparison - what did Luke do? Nothing. He was a worse hermit than Old Ben and Yoda combined. He then made a force vision of himself to fight Kylo - again why, if he dies anyway. His death was dumb - he just vanished for no apparent reason. Why not have him continue on into E9 and have him die peacefully like Yoda, with a better explanation - that end to a character more iconic to Leia was simply terrible.
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Please explain how you liked TFA and not TLJ.

    Wasn’t overly noticeable packed with more female characters because sjw **** wanted it.

    Thank goodness for that! Can you imagine ~women~ in star wars?! The demographics of a film have SUCH a huge effect on the quality of a film. I mean, could you imagine star wars without a single white male in the cast?! What a nightmare! Just wait until they hire a writer or director who isn’t a rich white guy! That’ll be the end of the franchise!! To heck with all of those lame SJWs who promote diversity in a franchise beloved by people from all over the world. Cause Star Wars is for the White Male, nobody else!

    There’s things to promote diversity and such in...but why Star Wars? It’s ruining something I really enjoy. Female lead and some characters don’t bother me at all Rey isn’t a bad character even if they are making her a Mary Sue. But the horrible added in Asian female character and purple haired admiral were horrible. Sorry bud just my opinion.


    I dont care whether or not you liked the characters, it’s your reasoning. How does the gender and ethnicity of a character have any effect on their quality?

    Also, why Star Wars? Because the sw universe was always meant to be this incredibly diverse setting where beings from every corner of the galaxy can mingle together and are judged by their ideas and beliefs, not what they look like (unless you’re a droid). If anything, it makes more sense for the human characters to be incredibly diverse than if they weren’t.

    Also, the push for more diversity in films is happening precisely because of the ideas you’re communicating. The fact that increased diversity is so obvious to you and has an impact on your perception of the characters points to the social problems at hand. Hopefully our society can get to the point where the idea of diversity is normalized and invisible. Casting is the first step, then behind the camera jobs.

    It just bothers me. Sorry just my opinion. I love Star Wars but not when we try to put political **** into it. Honestly that’s not even my biggest issue with the movie there’s multiple large and small issues I have and this is just one of them. We all have different opinions and the reception to the movie proves that it is probably the worst received Star Wars film so far.

    You probably feel like your beloved franchise is being used to push an agenda of sorts, right? It's okay, I understand how a person can feel that way, but let me tell you why you shouldn't. We don't have to look at it as pushing an agenda, instead we can look at it as Star Wars playing a role in helping people of different backgrounds, races, and genders to gain the visibility they deserve. It's trying to do a good thing for people, and I think that as a Star Wars fan, being able to have something I love bring some degree of balance and fairness to the real world is something I'm behind 100%.

    That response makes me absolutely hate Star Wars. Couldn’t disagree with you more. Sorry opinions vary.

    Is it too much to ask why that is your opinion? What good is an opinion or belief if you can’t back it up with sound reasoning?

    Because I don’t want freaking Star Wars to turn into a diversity filled charity case. There’s other movies we can promote that stuff in

    I agree - star wars is already racially diverse, look at ESB we have Lando, look at TPM lots of other racial backgrounds there and of course Mace Windu - its a film about diversity in a galaxy filled with Aliens!

    What I don't like is people (and I mean people in the LGBTQ community) stating the Holdo was meant to represent them and all they got was a lady with Purple hair! - being diverse is one thing, but how else - especially in a Disney movie, are they really going to represent someone from the LGBTQ community? What were they hoping to see???

    If people need films such as Disney and family movies like Star Wars to feel represented in the world then they need psychological counselling - not representation in a star wars movie - or any movie for that matter.

    I appreciate that Disney is trying to move away from the PT and OT and create their characters and stories etc. - I get that, but their plan doesn't have to be executed this way - they can phase out the OT keeping them in content of their charcters and paying proper homage to the die hard fans at the same time.

    Otherwise star wars will be liked for certain movies only over certain generations - rather than a saga of movies enjoyed by all generations.

    The changes Disney are making are too fast, wasting time on character development (which doesn't have to be boring) rather than focusing on their "needed" changes.

    Seriously what was that whole Casino/Code Breaker plot all about - it was a waste of time, time better spent setting up OT toons for a climactic end while developing their new characters to be enjoyed - instead we got wasted plots and movie time, rushed exits of beloved characters while new toons like Rey and Finn remain boring.
  • TVF
    18867 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    deleted
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Please explain how you liked TFA and not TLJ.

    Plot made since. Character arcs weren’t ridiculous and were interesting. Set up a new big villain that had you wondering more about him. Wasn’t overly noticeable packed with more female characters because sjw **** wanted it. I could go on and on. It’s a perfect film for the casual Star Wars fan that isn’t into the lore and history very much.

    I'm not against strong female leads - not at all. To be honest Star Wars needed it and I was so happy to see Rey be the next Jedi Hero for star wars, but what do we have now:

    Rey
    Jynn Erso
    Iden Versio

    All we are getting now is female leads, its already starting to wear thin for me.

    Especially when the movie leads are all White Females - if the franchise wants diversity, why not make Rey Asian and not bother adding pointless characters like Rose.

    At the end of the day the diversity doesn't bother me, but rather how certain characters apparently fall short "representing" certain "communities" - its nonsense.

    Also I constantly re-watch the OT - at least every year.

    The Ewoks were a bit poo, but they were originally meant to be wookies, touble is, its hard finding a lot of really tall people compared to an abundance of little people at the time, so with time and budget they went with that.

    Ewoks with their primitive weapons was meant to symbolize the David and Goliath story and it did it well.

    TFA and TLJ do nothing but add sour tastes to the franchise. If people think the OT would be criticised if they were released today then why was TFA basically a remake of ANH? further more TFA did well - a lot better received by audiences around the world compared to TLJ.

    R1 and Star Wars Rebels is the best Disney have given us so far. I disliked TFA because it was a remake - we've seen that movie before! and TLJ is a mess and is basically blasphemy of the whole star wars universe deeply upsetting a lot of fans.
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    At the end of the day it is obvious Abrams was seting up Luke for something different than what we got - ya he'd be tormented etc because of what happened - why else would he be in he middle of nowhere - but as seen at the end of TFA Luke was waiting for Rey at the top of the hill in full Jedi Robe attire.

    When in TLJ he did not sense Rey as he severed his connection to the force. As he had turned his back on the force and wanted the jedi to end - why dress up in his old Jedi Robes? When TLJ begins, Luke quickly runs to his hut and changes into his rain coat hermit look

    There is a disconnect here - it doesn't make any sense.
  • Saraleb
    2070 posts Member
    Well my personal opinion... i left the cinema just completely unfullfilled

    I went with my wife (who hadnt seen a star wars movie till she met me) and it was her fave just begind rogue one.. but for me it was though after all the build up all the unanswered questions from TFA it just... ran out of ideas and just cut off plot lines in a second as though they werent there

    This has all been said before but..

    Reys heritage.. massive thing from TFA.. gone in seconds from a one liner but Kylo (hold to hope as it only came from him there is more to come on this

    Mary poppins Leia... has to be the worst thing in any of the movies.. can i also ask why when they opened to blast doors to let her in the whole ship wasnt **** out into space

    Casino mission.... no value no point.. it was though it was there just to add screen time

    Rose/Finn... just uncomfortable why create a romance where its not needed wanted or even relevant to the story other than her to stop Finna sacrifice

    Hermit Luke.. i was so afraid of that happening.. hes luke skywalker but rather than take the mantle and rise up like he is (atleast in ep 5/6) he was made to be a miserable dont care about anything old man sucking milk from a i dont know what. This was the biggest disappointment for me... lead to his death or not he should have gone out fighting.. OB did as opposed to just vanishing on a cliff face

    Snoke... **** was supposed to be the new ultimate bad guy... i did like what kylo did but it should have ended before the halving... im guessing thats now forgotten and we will kearn no more on who or what he is


    Im hopeful some of these points will be picked up again in the next episode but as a star wars fan who grew up with the originals TLJ was full of disappointment
  • Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Please explain how you liked TFA and not TLJ.

    Plot made since. Character arcs weren’t ridiculous and were interesting. Set up a new big villain that had you wondering more about him. Wasn’t overly noticeable packed with more female characters because sjw **** wanted it. I could go on and on. It’s a perfect film for the casual Star Wars fan that isn’t into the lore and history very much.

    How did TLJ plot not make sense? The last of the Resistance was on the run and the FO was about to finish them off.

    The FO could have jumped ahead to trap the fleeing Resistance and end them quickly - they didn't.

    Rey went to Luke for help. He was tired of the Jedi and their superiority complex. Rey got what she needed from him by stealing the Jedi books and learning the truth about Kylo Ren.

    Luke was in Jedi robes at the end of TFA, because he was cut off from the force he couldn't sense Rey coming - why was he in Jedi robes after turning his back on the Jedi? He then immediately runs to his hut and changes into rain coat man. And why did he not join the fight after hearing about Han's death?

    With his knowledge of balance within the force (dark & Light) why not save the galaxy one last time before letting the jedi end, instead he turns his back on everything, friends, family and the galaxy to leave it in darkness just to serve his selfish agenda - This is NOT Luke!!!!

    Luke has a moment thought to kill Ben...why? He went all out risking his own life and the lives of the rebellion and by extension the galaxy to redeem a father he barely knew - why then think t kill your own nephew he has known all his life? Luke gave Rey 2 lessons (he promised 3) - how is she so accomplished? She hasn't even read the books she stole at this point.


    Kylo Ren killed his master and took his place as the Dark Force leader as it has been done for thousands of years. He saw himself in Rey, as she did in him as well, and he wanted her to rule by his side as has been done for ages.

    This is the only thing interesting that E9 has going for it - Vader was never in this position, so it will be interesting how this plays out.

    Rey joins back up with the Resistance and grabs the few that are left and flees into the outer rim.

    Now we have even less Resistance than at the start of the movie and apparently no one else in the galaxy would come to their aid - the FO is still a war machine with the largest force in the galaxy. So resistance are now re-tagging themselves as Rebels - maybe more people in the galaxy will fight under that banner, as the Rebels in this game are OP.

    Now comes episode 9, Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader and will look to finish the Resistance who are now Rebels off.


    In comparison - what did Luke do? Nothing. He was a worse hermit than Old Ben and Yoda combined. He then made a force vision of himself to fight Kylo - again why, if he dies anyway. His death was dumb - he just vanished for no apparent reason. Why not have him continue on into E9 and have him die peacefully like Yoda, with a better explanation - that end to a character more iconic to Leia was simply terrible.

    Luke’s sacrifice and subsequent passing on to the force was one of the best aspects of the film.

    If Luke showed up in person and let Kylo straight up murder him, Kylo would have been the victor. It would have been a violent, hate fueled death on Kylo’s terms. It would have demonstrated that the dark side gives its user strength greater than that given by following the light.

    However, Luke is victorious because he exposes Kylo for his false assumptions. Luke demonstrates that as long as Kylo follows the dark side, he will never reach his true potential. And although Luke ultimately dies, it is on his terms, completely non-violent, and is a victory, not a loss.

    Claiming that Luke’s death is pointless and dumb is to be reductive. If you believe Luke being cut down by Kylo in person would ultimately be the same as how it actually happened, then you’re missing the point. Not to mention you would also be missing the point of obi-wan’s victory over vader in ANH


    (Also, a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack. So people who are mad about Luke not doing crazy flips, pulling down AT ATs, or whatever else are also missing the significance of his actions)
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Cstone812 wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Please explain how you liked TFA and not TLJ.

    Plot made since. Character arcs weren’t ridiculous and were interesting. Set up a new big villain that had you wondering more about him. Wasn’t overly noticeable packed with more female characters because sjw **** wanted it. I could go on and on. It’s a perfect film for the casual Star Wars fan that isn’t into the lore and history very much.

    How did TLJ plot not make sense? The last of the Resistance was on the run and the FO was about to finish them off.

    The FO could have jumped ahead to trap the fleeing Resistance and end them quickly - they didn't.

    Rey went to Luke for help. He was tired of the Jedi and their superiority complex. Rey got what she needed from him by stealing the Jedi books and learning the truth about Kylo Ren.

    Luke was in Jedi robes at the end of TFA, because he was cut off from the force he couldn't sense Rey coming - why was he in Jedi robes after turning his back on the Jedi? He then immediately runs to his hut and changes into rain coat man. And why did he not join the fight after hearing about Han's death?

    With his knowledge of balance within the force (dark & Light) why not save the galaxy one last time before letting the jedi end, instead he turns his back on everything, friends, family and the galaxy to leave it in darkness just to serve his selfish agenda - This is NOT Luke!!!!

    Luke has a moment thought to kill Ben...why? He went all out risking his own life and the lives of the rebellion and by extension the galaxy to redeem a father he barely knew - why then think t kill your own nephew he has known all his life? Luke gave Rey 2 lessons (he promised 3) - how is she so accomplished? She hasn't even read the books she stole at this point.


    Kylo Ren killed his master and took his place as the Dark Force leader as it has been done for thousands of years. He saw himself in Rey, as she did in him as well, and he wanted her to rule by his side as has been done for ages.

    This is the only thing interesting that E9 has going for it - Vader was never in this position, so it will be interesting how this plays out.

    Rey joins back up with the Resistance and grabs the few that are left and flees into the outer rim.

    Now we have even less Resistance than at the start of the movie and apparently no one else in the galaxy would come to their aid - the FO is still a war machine with the largest force in the galaxy. So resistance are now re-tagging themselves as Rebels - maybe more people in the galaxy will fight under that banner, as the Rebels in this game are OP.

    Now comes episode 9, Kylo Ren is the Supreme Leader and will look to finish the Resistance who are now Rebels off.


    In comparison - what did Luke do? Nothing. He was a worse hermit than Old Ben and Yoda combined. He then made a force vision of himself to fight Kylo - again why, if he dies anyway. His death was dumb - he just vanished for no apparent reason. Why not have him continue on into E9 and have him die peacefully like Yoda, with a better explanation - that end to a character more iconic to Leia was simply terrible.

    Luke’s sacrifice and subsequent passing on to the force was one of the best aspects of the film.

    If Luke showed up in person and let Kylo straight up murder him, Kylo would have been the victor. It would have been a violent, hate fueled death on Kylo’s terms. It would have demonstrated that the dark side gives its user strength greater than that given by following the light.

    However, Luke is victorious because he exposes Kylo for his false assumptions. Luke demonstrates that as long as Kylo follows the dark side, he will never reach his true potential. And although Luke ultimately dies, it is on his terms, completely non-violent, and is a victory, not a loss.

    Claiming that Luke’s death is pointless and dumb is to be reductive. If you believe Luke being cut down by Kylo in person would ultimately be the same as how it actually happened, then you’re missing the point. Not to mention you would also be missing the point of obi-wan’s victory over vader in ANH


    (Also, a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, NEVER for attack. So people who are mad about Luke not doing crazy flips, pulling down AT ATs, or whatever else are also missing the significance of his actions)

    Fair points. IDK it just rubbed me and many countless others the wrong way - perhaps it would have been more accepting if Luke was more active in the rest of the movie? It just didn't sit right with me.

    I agree with @Saraleb his points are spot on.

    Many plot lines just got swept away by Johnson. There was no point to Rose's character or her relationship with Finn. There was also no point in Maz's presence in the movie.

    The whole casino plot line was ridiculous and a waste of time - time better spent respecting Luke as the character we know and the development of the new toons of this franchise.

    I heard a rumour that apparently Lando was to be the code breaker, but apparently that idea got scrapped - wouldf have been nice - even if he made an appearance as the guy at the casino table with a 2 second cameo - would have been a nice touch - oh well.

    I am also upset that we never did find out how Luke/Anakin's saber made a come back from cloud city into Maz's possession - that was like the biggest question on my mind after TFA trailer only for Maz to say "That's a story for another time" now the saber is dust - so I guess we'll never know. Another awful plot line in these nonsensical movies.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.

    Well perhaps Yoda had learned more since the PT era when it came to TESB, I mean he had a lot of self reflection time didn't he? He also seems even more different and perhaps wise in TLJ compared to TESB.

    However, we did get to see Yoda in action on more than 1 occasion. Lets count Luke and Snoke in TLJ.....
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.

    However, we did get to see Yoda in action on more than 1 occasion. Lets count Luke and Snoke in TLJ.....

    That’s my point. Yoda shouldn’t be “in action”. He’s an old, tiny, green alien who (at least in the OT) believes in peace, non-violence, and submission to the will of the force. If he encounters an obstacle, he should solve it in a creative way by using the force (a la Luke and Snoke in TLJ) not by whipping out a lightsaber and engaging in some nauseating, nonsensical, boring action sequence.

    The whole point of the Light’s advantage over the Dark is how multifaceted it is. The dark side provides short term, brute strength. The Light is more creative and subversive.

    The PT was even aware of this virtue (we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers) then immediately goes on to contradict it.

    At least the Clone Wars had the decency to recon the bad writing of the PT into a plot device where Sidious took advantage of moral hypocrisies within the Jedi Order.
  • Leparine
    38 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    @DatBoi

    Thank you, didn´t see some of the aspects in that way, very good and appending analysis :)
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Yep, made no sense there why he was all dressed up.

    When they announced the new trilogy I was wondering why they were having one guy do 7 another do 8 and yet another do 9. Now they are going back to JJ for 9. Why not just let one guy do all three?

    Imagine the Han Solo movie - Ron Howard is technically director number 3!

    Its going to be a compilation of rubbish that no one really wanted to see in the first place. People are saying TLJ is the worst star wars movie, perhaps thus far, but my money is on the Han Solo movie being the biggest **** in the toilet.

    The Han Solo movie is looking up to be the first film in decades every sw fan will agree on
  • @DatBoi

    Thank you, didn´t see some of this aspects in that way, very good and appending analysis :)
  • Boo
    3784 posts Member
    edited January 2018
    DatBoi wrote: »
    Boo wrote: »
    DatBoi wrote: »
    I wish that Yoda in the prequels was doing neat stuff with the force like Luke and Snoke in TLJ instead of directly contradicting everything established in Empire.

    However, we did get to see Yoda in action on more than 1 occasion. Lets count Luke and Snoke in TLJ.....

    That’s my point. Yoda shouldn’t be “in action”. He’s an old, tiny, green alien who (at least in the OT) believes in peace, non-violence, and submission to the will of the force. If he encounters an obstacle, he should solve it in a creative way by using the force (a la Luke and Snoke in TLJ) not by whipping out a lightsaber and engaging in some nauseating, nonsensical, boring action sequence.

    The whole point of the Light’s advantage over the Dark is how multifaceted it is. The dark side provides short term, brute strength. The Light is more creative and subversive.

    The PT was even aware of this virtue (we’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers) then immediately goes on to contradict it.

    At least the Clone Wars had the decency to recon the bad writing of the PT into a plot device where Sidious took advantage of moral hypocrisies within the Jedi Order.

    Keepers of the peace not soldiers - A police officer or "peacekeeper" still carries a gun but does not go to the Middle-East to fight wars - same thing.

    In your logic no jedi should carry a lightsaber as weapons are against the code? I personally enjoyed Yoda's battle with Dooku and Sidious - very entertaining. I was actually a little disappointed that Yoda and Sidious was so overshadowed by Anakin and Obi Wan's duel - oh well, still good and better than what we have seen thus far in the PT.

    I think that the difference in Yoda between PT and OT is that it shows a growth of his character and understanding of the force, it also further illustrates the failings of the Jedi in PT which, to some, wasn't obvious enough. Yoda is also still in the mindset of the old failing Jedi though, believing Anakin to be lost to Darth Vader and needs to be destroyed - not very Jedi like is it?

    I totally agree with your clone wars statement - why some of that was not in the PT I don't know - sloppy George Lucas, that's why.

    Perhaps an animated series around the ST will raise its ugly head to explain all the nonsensical plot points TFA and TLJ have made - but that is just as bad if not worse, because unlike the failings of the PT and likewise Yoda's wisdom come TESB - Disney seem to be just as arrogant as the failing Jedi Order.
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