Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

Replies

  • Peempo
    371 posts Member
    No disrespect intended @CG_TopHat but I don't think a wait and see approach is gonna do much to sway player opinion on this one. You took the realization of a team going against the mechanics of the raid, who's main contributing factors in that are traya raid bonuses, and acolyte, and nerfed an entire faction/negated multiple zeta investments as a response. You're basically amputating an arm for a flesh wound.
  • @CG_TopHat thanks for giving more feedback in 2 minutes than we have gotten in 2 months. I hope you are also aware and monitoring the player bases pulse on issues in the game that we feel have been ignored for a long while. And understand the pattern that CG is cultivating when “fixes” are brought in.

    To be clear - I’m not a fan of any type of “loop” or cheese team to get mega damage in the raid , but why make changes so drastic?

    Regarding the drastic-ness of the changes, we try to evaluate anything we need to change in the game in a way that will hopefully prevent us from having to "fix" it again. That doesn't always work out, just because of the staggering complexity and the myriad of possible interactions in the game. That said, in reviewing with the Design team, this solution was deemed to help solve a lot of possible edge cases that could pop up in the future. We hope it does.

    Regarding the communication, I hear you. It's something we're constantly working on trying to improve. Thanks for the feedback.
  • GRTL
    48 posts Member
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    By nerfing nightsister damage for everyone who built the team. In sure we'll getthe dance response we got after 73 days in the sith raid feedback thread.

    It's amazing how quick you are to fix something that only hits a fraction of the player base but how you can't even respond to a thread that your tan started with 1400 comments from frustrated players.
  • I agree with much of your post, but I disagree when it comes to the zombie. The sisters were my first, and are still my arena team. That means they were my first gear 12 team and have served me well all this time (I started last Oct.), I have been in the top 50 since they became my main team and I still usually finish top 50.

    The fact that I was doing what the game says you're supposed to do, progress your team, should not put me at a disadvantage to other people using the same team.

    You say " It took about 30 seconds to read the kit and see the synergies were better for weak zombie." That is simply not true for the arena. Yes, people were using that strategy in the beginning, but it soon became clear that if you want to rank really high you needed a strong zombie. It wasn't until the Sith raid when the paper zombie became the team you really wanted.

    Like I said, I do agree with most of your other points though.
  • Ender22
    1194 posts Member
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat thanks for giving more feedback in 2 minutes than we have gotten in 2 months. I hope you are also aware and monitoring the player bases pulse on issues in the game that we feel have been ignored for a long while. And understand the pattern that CG is cultivating when “fixes” are brought in.

    To be clear - I’m not a fan of any type of “loop” or cheese team to get mega damage in the raid , but why make changes so drastic?

    Regarding the drastic-ness of the changes, we try to evaluate anything we need to change in the game in a way that will hopefully prevent us from having to "fix" it again. That doesn't always work out, just because of the staggering complexity and the myriad of possible interactions in the game. That said, in reviewing with the Design team, this solution was deemed to help solve a lot of possible edge cases that could pop up in the future. We hope it does.

    Regarding the communication, I hear you. It's something we're constantly working on trying to improve. Thanks for the feedback.

    Yeah but what, this change HAD to happen right away? Some hasty nerf? You guys need something that makes it so that it doesn't affect current processes.
  • Monel
    1499 posts Member
    JacenRoe wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Sidusvitus wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.

    The solo team isn't the issue. The issue is the massive nerf to NS teams

    It's not that massive, at least not in heroic. A fully geared zombie with Asaj lead still will easily put up 2 mil damage in phase 4 which is where most guilds use NS anyway. So to get past DN portion 10 people need to attack now instead of 5, not a huge deal. I mean, changing mechanics stinks but it's not the end of the world. Prior to the you tube video I never even used acolyte in sith raid.

    I get everyone's frustration, just think it's a little over the top. NS squads will still destroy DN in phase 4, you just remove stacks at 15. Always my strategy anyway and my poorly moddedd squad never did less that 2 mil but usually did around 2.5.

    That's all you were getting? It's really not hard to more than double your score with regular old Nightsisters. No Treya infinite loop team needed... or it used to not be hard to double your score, before a 4 Zeta investment team got kicked in the walnuts on a flimsy pretext.

    I agree completely. Just never took the time to do it right, my point being if you were getting 5 mil before at worst you wl get 2.5 to 3mil. Still more than enough to destroy DN with 10 attacks.
  • Hypebeast81
    1 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    @CG_TopHat @CG_Carrie I literally just zeta’d my daka yesterday for the raid. Now that these changes make her zeta obsolete, can I get a refund on those zetas? I’m sure the other zetas will still be decent but now spending the last 2-3 months on building my nightsister team to be able to reach the top 5 in heroic sith damage seems almost like a waste for me
  • Viserys
    453 posts Member
    HK22 wrote: »
    GRTL wrote: »
    They just posted. Can't fully heal after 20 finds of weakness. That really hampers ns p4 strategies

    I think the bigger issue is the fact that they are going after the Paper Zombie strategy. That will tick off many players who invested in NS because the strategy worked. It doesn't effect me and what I run, but it will many others.

    To be fair it depends on exactly what they do to the zombie. But if it results in zombie dying less its gonna be received with absolute fire. She's supposed to die, that's how she helps me.

    I'm fine with fixing the problem that gearing her is a weird disadvantage. It is sort of nonsense, but if that means "we ruin her utility for everyone" then... just... why.

    The BoW fix is dumb. Just make Acolyte hit twice on one attack with stealth instead of actually attacking twice.
  • brd1222
    10 posts Member
    Boooooo!!!!!!
  • JacenRoe wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Sidusvitus wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.

    The solo team isn't the issue. The issue is the massive nerf to NS teams

    It's not that massive, at least not in heroic. A fully geared zombie with Asaj lead still will easily put up 2 mil damage in phase 4 which is where most guilds use NS anyway. So to get past DN portion 10 people need to attack now instead of 5, not a huge deal. I mean, changing mechanics stinks but it's not the end of the world. Prior to the you tube video I never even used acolyte in sith raid.

    I get everyone's frustration, just think it's a little over the top. NS squads will still destroy DN in phase 4, you just remove stacks at 15. Always my strategy anyway and my poorly moddedd squad never did less that 2 mil but usually did around 2.5.

    That's all you were getting? It's really not hard to more than double your score with regular old Nightsisters. No Treya infinite loop team needed... or it used to not be hard to double your score, before a 4 Zeta investment team got kicked in the walnuts on a flimsy pretext.

    Seriously, there are dozens of YouTube videos that show how to do 5-10MM easily with NS. I do @50% of nihilus. A few can solo him, but not sion. The average NS squad is about 3-4MM now. After the nerf, it'll be about half of that, making them marginally better than a half **** squad. Hell, a MT zeta lead is probably better than asaj after this rework
  • Viserys wrote: »
    HK22 wrote: »
    GRTL wrote: »
    They just posted. Can't fully heal after 20 finds of weakness. That really hampers ns p4 strategies

    I think the bigger issue is the fact that they are going after the Paper Zombie strategy. That will tick off many players who invested in NS because the strategy worked. It doesn't effect me and what I run, but it will many others.

    To be fair it depends on exactly what they do to the zombie. But if it results in zombie dying less its gonna be received with absolute fire. She's supposed to die, that's how she helps me.

    I'm fine with fixing the problem that gearing her is a weird disadvantage. It is sort of nonsense, but if that means "we ruin her utility for everyone" then... just... why.

    The BoW fix is dumb. Just make Acolyte hit twice on one attack with stealth instead of actually attacking twice.

    I’m thinking zombie will have a gear threshold. That will snowball into events and raids with a certain gear threshold as well.
  • Cal00054
    158 posts Member
    In all seriousness, I just gave a useless zeta to Daka that I wanted to give to fulcrum, Ezra, and traya because I didn’t want to lose out on top 5 rewards for the guys in my guild that post ridiculous scores with NS. That’s tough to swallow.
  • It’s 6:18 in Cali. That office is closing. And we will be left here to scream into the void. Honestly don’t. Enjoy your weekends if you can. Get the zetas back. @Ender22 don’t quit por favor. The forums need more peeps like you on here.
  • Stud3099
    568 posts Member
    @CG_TopHat Can you explain why CG chose 20 stacks as opposed to 50? or 100? You could even make 100 stacks an insta-kill on the whole squad or something. No one was getting to 100 unless they were stuck in a loop anyway.
  • C4L3B87
    51 posts Member
    It’s 6:18 in Cali. That office is closing. And we will be left here to scream into the void. Honestly don’t. Enjoy your weekends if you can. Get the zetas back. @Ender22 don’t quit por favor. The forums need more peeps like you on here.
    How do we get the zetas back?
  • aperingo
    149 posts Member
    ZCD_9915 wrote: »
    aperingo wrote: »
    Can someone explains how this mechanic works? I don't have Traya, but is nice to know what I have been missing...

    Thanks!!!!!
  • @CG_TopHat please, nerf nsa to - 50% stealth vs raid bosses. Or, better yet, nerf isolate to 25% health steal vs raid bosses. Hell, do NO health steal against raid bosses for all we care. All of these leave the core of the game unchanged while removing the loop/cheese team, and having everyone be happy. Otherwise, like you did with barris, you need to offer refunds to anyone who invested zetas in NS after the raid started. I never, ever would have done daka unique, asaj unique, mt unique, or asaj lead zetas if not for the str. I would have done MT lead instead, like everyone else here
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    I have a sincere question for you that I think deserves an answer. Forget for a moment the money I’ve spent, the gear I farmed and the zetas I invested in this squad. Do you understand that many of us put lots of time we could have spent with our families or doing other things we enjoy into learning this team and perfecting the mechanics so we could finish at the top of the raid? Do you understand that this squad was the ONLY one in the entire raid that actually required skill instead of restart after restart until the RNG broke your way? Do you understand that this feels like a slap in the face? That you are essentially telling us that all that time we invested to actually get good at the raid is now meaningless? Do you understand that who finishes top 3 in the raid now depends on who got the best dice roll and not who has worked hardest to learn the mechanics?

    Sorry you spent all that time trying to get good. Go back and restart Chex 100 more times and hope Han gets more counters in so you can squeeze out another 500k for first place.

    Honestly, I want to know whether you realize how personally insulted many of us feel.
  • CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Broxxor wrote: »
    Wasnt cg advertising paper zombie as a mechanic? Didnt they say "WAI - change your teams" when people were complaining about the acolyte cheese in arena a few months ago?

    The changes as proposed, coupled with the forthcoming change to paper zombie, literally make nightsisters useless. They have no purpose in the end game any longer.

    It also directly nerfs newly released characters and their abilities on the raid (namely young solo and big Z). Does CG intend to refund the money spent on resources to level those characters @CG_CapGaSP @CG_TopHat ? Or is this another instance where "communication" actually means "delivering news that screws the playerbase and then ignoring them"?

    Just want to chime in and say that we are still figuring out what the changes to Zombie look like, but we've got some really solid leads. Our goal is to make Zombie still fit her roll as the same constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been. We're also looking at how we bring some of the juice of her constantly dying under the Paper Zombie paradigm and bring that into the powered up Zombie.

    You should have led with this. And only this. You got the community in an uproar teasing a nerf in front of our face without this explanation. Players care about their investment more than your reasoning on 'why to focus on constant improvement.'
  • Nerfing the ns as a whole is a terrible idea now. People have invented zetas, omegas, gear, credits etc. Into that team. You want to change bonds to be limited to 40 or 50 that's fine. Don't change how a team is used bc people with a 7* traya found a weakness. Maybe just change how traya works in the raid.
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