Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

Replies

  • Options
    @CG_TopHat you must know that nerfing the health steal on isolate solves the entire loop problem with one easy fix, right? The NS squads are left alone, it requires less effort by the devs. The entire player base is happy, you get a huge win on a Friday night. Everyone wins! Hell, you can even nerf nsa and almost nobody will care.
  • Options
    As for “paper” zombie- this means a gear threshold to enter the raid?
  • Options
    Rimzo wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.
    Do you guys realize how badly you messed up?

    It's like they're allergic to making good, sound decisions. They haven't done a lot right this past year...
  • CG_TopHat
    78 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    Options
    Broxxor wrote: »
    Wasnt cg advertising paper zombie as a mechanic? Didnt they say "WAI - change your teams" when people were complaining about the acolyte cheese in arena a few months ago?

    The changes as proposed, coupled with the forthcoming change to paper zombie, literally make nightsisters useless. They have no purpose in the end game any longer.

    It also directly nerfs newly released characters and their abilities on the raid (namely young solo and big Z). Does CG intend to refund the money spent on resources to level those characters @CG_CapGaSP @CG_TopHat ? Or is this another instance where "communication" actually means "delivering news that screws the playerbase and then ignoring them"?

    Just want to chime in and say that we are still figuring out what the changes to Zombie look like, but we've got some really solid leads. Our goal is to make Zombie still fit her roll as the same constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been. We're also looking at how we bring some of the juice of her constantly dying under the Paper Zombie paradigm and bring that into the powered up Zombie.

  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    Girder wrote: »
    20 stacks?
    I’m sorry, but this is obscenely low. While I do understand the need for nerfing the infinite loop and future-proofing the raid, putting the cap at 20 stacks is an insane nerf.

    The real damage from that team - and the art of playing it - doesn’t start till 30 stacks in-ish where Ventress hits suffering. This effectively makes getting suffering impossible/unlikely and shatters the team. Furthermore, it completely kills the point of having a zeta on Daka.

    Couple that with zombie getting the hammer as well - which to be fair is not unexpected nor unfair - and you have a perfect storm of nerfs for NS.

    No other nerfs/changes has ever really gotten me riled up before, but you guys are really shooting sparrows with cannons here and making the people who invested time, effort and for some people money into their NS teams feel really awful.

    Summary: Nerf? Sure go ahead. Decimate a legitimate team? Not a great idea.

    Hmmm. Yup
  • Rimzo
    120 posts Member
    Options
    As for “paper” zombie- this means a gear threshold to enter the raid?

    Only thing that makes sense on how to approach it. I don’t consider G8 paper but they set a precedent and are likely to consider G10 and below paper.
  • Vengence
    1117 posts Member
    Options

    Dhuriya24 wrote: »
    So the Critolyte vid came out only 9hrs ago and in that time span they managed to give Traya a brand new ability, and announce that Acolyte & Zombie are both being reworked...on a Friday no less.

    So I guess the whole "Oh sorry gang it's Friday, horrible update #50 cant be looked into until Monday or a year from now" was always bologna?

    This!!!
  • Bakou
    4 posts Member
    Options
    @CG_CapGaSP you can’t put in the same basket a squad that only requires you to know what to do before pressing auto and one squad that required careful strategy. P4 is one of the most challenging part of this game. You have to tweak your team for month, practice and be rewarded by high score. What’s wrong with that ???? Isn’t that the whole point of this game ???
  • Glauron
    56 posts Member
    Options
    @CG_CapGaSP Thank you for replying and doing some damage control to this thread. Your answers seem reasonable. I would strongly suggest you focus on the 20 stacks number as changing it to 50 would make everyone I have talked to go... "well... okay, that works". None of the cheese teams go above 50 stacks, even with Daka zeta, while 20 stacks means you need to be hitting the raid ability every couple of turns with your main damage characters.
  • Obi1_son
    656 posts Member
    Options
    Sidusvitus wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat you must know that nerfing the health steal on isolate solves the entire loop problem with one easy fix, right? The NS squads are left alone, it requires less effort by the devs. The entire player base is happy, you get a huge win on a Friday night. Everyone wins! Hell, you can even nerf nsa and almost nobody will care.

    This
  • Options
    Iy4oy4s wrote: »
    This just killed the last bit of motivation I had with this **** raid.....Tell me CG, do you want this game to keep going or are you really trying to kill it now? The game has never been in as low a point as right now and right now, I blame Carrie....ever since she showed up, things went really south. LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYER BASE!!!

    This^ x 1000000000000000000
  • Options
    @CG_Carrie Truly, this is such an easy fix. Do this, while removing challenge gear from the raids, and you'll have tons of players buying the first round for weeks. The good will you get from those two changes might surprise you. Hell, people like me who have gone f2p might even feel like spending money again...
  • Options
    @CG_TopHat Can I get my 20 zeta mats back? I wouldn't have zeta'd Old Daka but for the Sith Raid. Also, your comment about your concern re: intra-guild dynamics is incredibly disingenuous. Your current Sith Raid reward structure does more to harm intra-guild dynamics more than anything else!
  • adwar
    56 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Broxxor wrote: »
    Wasnt cg advertising paper zombie as a mechanic? Didnt they say "WAI - change your teams" when people were complaining about the acolyte cheese in arena a few months ago?

    The changes as proposed, coupled with the forthcoming change to paper zombie, literally make nightsisters useless. They have no purpose in the end game any longer.

    It also directly nerfs newly released characters and their abilities on the raid (namely young solo and big Z). Does CG intend to refund the money spent on resources to level those characters @CG_CapGaSP @CG_TopHat ? Or is this another instance where "communication" actually means "delivering news that screws the playerbase and then ignoring them"?

    Just want to chime in and say that we are still figuring out what the changes to Zombie look like, but we've got some really solid leads. Our goal is to make Zombie still fit her roll as the same constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been. We're also looking at how we bring some of the juice of her constantly dying under the Paper Zombie paradigm and bring that into the powered up Zombie.

    10 pages and this is your first and only issue to respond to?

    Can you explain the thought process on nerfing the Night Sisters when they were not the actual issue?
  • Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Your invalidating nightsisters who were good for 1/3rd of a phase to protect Traya. Cool...wasted everyone's zetas...how about giving them back?
  • Options
    @CG_TopHat thanks for giving more feedback in 2 minutes than we have gotten in 2 months. I hope you are also aware and monitoring the player bases pulse on issues in the game that we feel have been ignored for a long while. And understand the pattern that CG is cultivating when “fixes” are brought in.

    To be clear - I’m not a fan of any type of “loop” or cheese team to get mega damage in the raid , but why make changes so drastic?
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    Options
    Monel wrote: »
    Sidusvitus wrote: »
    Monel wrote: »
    Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.

    The solo team isn't the issue. The issue is the massive nerf to NS teams

    It's not that massive, at least not in heroic. A fully geared zombie with Asaj lead still will easily put up 2 mil damage in phase 4 which is where most guilds use NS anyway. So to get past DN portion 10 people need to attack now instead of 5, not a huge deal. I mean, changing mechanics stinks but it's not the end of the world. Prior to the you tube video I never even used acolyte in sith raid.

    I get everyone's frustration, just think it's a little over the top. NS squads will still destroy DN in phase 4, you just remove stacks at 15. Always my strategy anyway and my poorly moddedd squad never did less that 2 mil but usually did around 2.5.

    That's all you were getting? It's really not hard to more than double your score with regular old Nightsisters. No Treya infinite loop team needed... or it used to not be hard to double your score, before a 4 Zeta investment team got kicked in the walnuts on a flimsy pretext.
  • CG_TopHat
    78 posts SWGOH Dev Team
    Options
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.
  • Options
    Nothing matters they dont care , they never have and never will, were all fools for thinking anything would've gone any way were thought it would. Also as far as progression goes shouldn't the players have freedom to use the characters the way they want within the kit. If I want to roll full g8 jtr team I should be able to not hear min which is likely the outoxme of this zombie issue.
  • So7hoth
    48 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    How the change impacts the player base? Aren't you seeing that in real time in this thread?

    Honestly, is this the best fix you could come up with? There is nothing wrong with the sisters. You just need to fix isolate for raid bosses. Otherwise you pretty much have to refund that Daka zeta because it's absolutely useless if the stacks are limited to 20.
  • Vinny_Vader_Vedi
    4626 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Ender22 wrote: »
    Ugh, I think about the times I’ve ever quit a game. It was always a rage quit. Some RNG in the game that I decided overcame my desire to play.

    I’ve been playing this game for 2 years. I’ve always felt I had mastered the RNG. But now, not from a game mechanic, but from the developers themselves, I just lost all of my hard work towards earning 1st place in my raid.

    I am so full of rage. How could I quit a game I’ve been playing for so long, put so much money into. I worked so hard to get first.

    Congratulations @CG_TopHat , you and your team have finally introduced something to the game that made me rage quit. Your team is terrible at introducing things in ways that prevent it from lucking people over.

    I’m out.

    :( dang.Ender one of the most level headed dudes on here.

  • adwar
    56 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.

    This is a joke right?

    Can you tell us what percent of players have Traya at 7*?

    You understand have chosen the wrong path to fix this, right?
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Broxxor wrote: »
    Wasnt cg advertising paper zombie as a mechanic? Didnt they say "WAI - change your teams" when people were complaining about the acolyte cheese in arena a few months ago?

    The changes as proposed, coupled with the forthcoming change to paper zombie, literally make nightsisters useless. They have no purpose in the end game any longer.

    It also directly nerfs newly released characters and their abilities on the raid (namely young solo and big Z). Does CG intend to refund the money spent on resources to level those characters @CG_CapGaSP @CG_TopHat ? Or is this another instance where "communication" actually means "delivering news that screws the playerbase and then ignoring them"?

    Just want to chime in and say that we are still figuring out what the changes to Zombie look like, but we've got some really solid leads. Our goal is to make Zombie still fit her roll as the same constantly dying awesome taunting tank she's always been. We're also looking at how we bring some of the juice of her constantly dying under the Paper Zombie paradigm and bring that into the powered up Zombie.

    But you’re ignoring the impact on the effect it has on peoples investment in 3 zeta mats. @CG_TopHat you must realize that this is a knee **** decision and is hurting players more than helping. How does the change to isolate health steal in HSTR hurt the game more when only a few people have this ability in the first place since they need a 7* traya.
    It’s quick, it’s clean and it lets peoples investments actually stay worthwhile. Zombie is a whole other issue that is going to anger a lot of players. Maybe even sharing the ideas on the table will help alleviate the worries everyone has now
  • Bakou
    4 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    @CG_TopHat why not monitor how high normal teams goes in bond of weakness. What the player base is saying is that
    - YES it doesn’t make sense to have one squad that can solo 2 phases by pressing auto, but
    - NO it doesn’t make sense to nerf something that requires precise preparation and control by capping bonds of weakness to so low a number
  • Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.

    What are the reasons for not responding to other issues then?
  • JacenRoe
    3016 posts Member
    Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.

    Well it really looks like you used this infinite loop team as a thinly veiled excuse to gut a team people already invested in, and I'm very disappointed you treated our investment so casually. You could have fixed that new team with ZERO impact on any previous team if you had any imagination or ethics for that matter. Disgusting.
  • Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.

    You do realize everyone hates the raid anyway? And all you're doing is taking away something that makes it somewhat bearable? The STR keeps hurting this game and the player base and nothing is done to improve it.
  • Options
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    TAureliusC wrote: »
    CG_TopHat wrote: »
    Peempo wrote: »
    @CG_TopHat 20 stacks? Is that your final answer?

    No, it's not my final answer. It's my answer for now as we monitor how the change impacts the player base. We recognize it's a pretty big change and want to see how it performs over time.

    Don't make the change until you understand the impact is another logical way of resolving the issue. Or just fix isolate in raids..... Do you guys always act so impulsively?!

    The reason we responded so quickly on this issue is because we didn't want players to begin to make long term investment decisions around (player ownable) Darth Traya and the raid and have us take it away one months from now. In general, we try to catch these sorts of infinite loops and other overly performant teams early, but we evaluate on a case by case basis. In the past, the Nightsisters didn't cross the threshold. With the introduction of the Critolyte team, we opted to make some changes to Bonds of Weakness that has some impact on Nightsisters.

    Our testing in house shows that they are still very good in Phase 4 and still outperform most teams in that Phase. In the balance of things, undercutting Critolyte and leaving the Nightsisters in a very good place made sense to us at the time.

    And what is your testing in house showing? You might be happy with the NS scoring 2 or 3million but anyone like myself who's grinded gear mods and zetas to make the best NS team we could and learnt the not so simple strategy will not settle for pathetic scores like that.
  • Ikky2win
    870 posts Member
    Options
    I literally just bought, as in with crystals, talzin and zombie, and bought, as in crystals, gear to get everyone but zombie from g8 to g12 this month specifically for the sith raid. I emailed both you @CG_TopHat and @CG_Carrie about it a few minutes ago. This is a game quitting change.
This discussion has been closed.