Changes to Asajj/Acolyte Strategy in STR MEGA THREAD

Replies

  • Odin_Noah
    230 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    I am proud to have maxed out my NS team last week so that our guild could finally beat Heroic Sith Raid. Thank you for nerfing my team so that we won’t be make it. Also, Im working on my JTR team too, those guys are really good at the raid, make sure to nerf them in a month once I max them. You didn’t nerf them hard enough last time.

    I’m starting to feel the “spirit of the raid” that all the developers keep telling us now. It’s like that spirit in a horror movie that never dies and always comes back to haunt you when you think you might succeed.
  • Options
    ObVusJoke wrote: »
    This makes no sense as it doesn't work till you already have Traya. I hate this raid, and am all for something making it easier to farm once Traya is done. No doiubt this is an excuse to nerf nightsisters. Good bye P4 teams.
    My guild just finished HSTR in 3.5 hours POST NERF. It’s our best time yet. NS squads were still putting up the same damage they had been. The nerf changes nothing, except for removing an exploitable flaw in their raid’s mechanics. Ok, NS got three less actions to attack because they had to clear the stack that much more. That’s probably less than 100k damage they’re missing. Pretty negligible when you’re doing well over 5 million. They’re still the highest damage team in the entire raid.

    You're clearly lying or misinformed because top NS teams were not clearing stacks until around 40 pre nerf.....meaning asajj got full suffering....with 20 shes not getting to suffering so top dmg is halved
  • Options
    Just remember there has always been notable NS / zombie hate...so this is a good day for a lot of people that are still carrying that axe to grind. Nevermind that it diminishes an entire team and greatly impacts multiple hard to get zetas...but hey...since your DN could annihilate zombie to heck with all the other player's past efforts right?
  • Options
    Your probably looking at halving NS team dmg 2x when they change zombie but i doubt they will keep 20 stacks as the limit then but then if zombie isnt dying and you are having to play the stupid annihilate game then asajj dmg will be crap and it wont matter
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    return of just daka zeta is also pretty minimal offering...you're neutering an entire team here and diminishing the zetas on Talzin and Ventress and all the gear that went to them. I, like other players...have 5 zetas in NS toons...FIVE!!!. Chopping 2/5 of the team at the knees and just getting 1 zeta returned is wrong and a disappointing effort. Looking at this as an impact to just 2 toons and to 1 zeta is short-sighted. Zombie / talzin also were and still are pretty exclusive and hard to get toons.
  • Options
    Stud3099 wrote: »
    @CG_SBCrumb Why is this issue being addressed "as soon as possible" but not the crud rewards for lower tiers?

    The better fix would have been just stop heal steal from traya against a raid boss. Everyone happy.

    Btw, @CG_SBCrumb why this was fixed that fast but we still get challenge gear as reward??
  • Corpus
    71 posts Member
    Options
    Monel wrote: »
    Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.

    Good point, I don't have Traya, and yet the "fix" has affected my Nightsisters and their performance in the Sith Raid.

    Because apparently I have a cup holder in my car, Bentleys change has to impact all cup holders.

    TLDR
    Bentley = Traya
    Nightsister = Cup holder

    Bentley broken so fix Nightsisters.
  • Options
    Is this the straw that broke the camel’s back? Will this mark the beginning of the end for SWGoH? All they had to do was make the stacks max at 50-100. Simple fix. That’s it. Fixed. Instead we get this “fix” and the backlash created by it.
    I think this could be the one...
  • Options
    I won’t lie, it is very disappointing to see how quickly they can nerf an entire team, but it takes them half a year to change the bunk raid rewards they’ve been promising. If it is that tough to change rewards, then their code on this game must be super screwed up.
  • RunchGwar
    108 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    I'm normally pretty supportive of the changes CG makes, and I think we can all agree that infinite damage loops aren't in the spirit of the game, but the way they tackled this issue is total kitten.

    CG, you could've easily fixed this problem by changing the way Darth Traya interacts with Raid Bosses, or even come up with a creative solution that changed the STR bosses themselves that nixed this particular team. Instead you've nerfed the only good P4 team and promised further Nightsister nerfs incoming. What a bunch of kitten.

    Not that anyone cares what I say.
    Post edited by Sunnie1978 on
  • Options
    Looks like people are getting massive amounts of money refunded from apple and google play, we might be seeing the single biggest mistake ever made by the Devs
  • Yesac
    362 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    If CG is going to nerf paper ZOMBIE and they won't listen to our pleas for them not to, PLEASE ONLY APPLY ZOMBIE CHANGES IN THE SITH RAID. I use NS effectively in TW and TB and rely on my 7* g7 zombie to die. She is rendered ineffective if she is ability blocked. I need her to die and taunt. Changing it should be a refund of the crystals I spent (some money involved) to farm her. It is the reason everyone farmed her. If you are bent on changing her in the raid, using whatever (imo flawed) logic, only have it apply to the raid.
    EDIT spelling error
  • Options
    Yesac wrote: »
    If CG is going to nerf paper ZOMBIE and they won't listen to our pleas for them not to, PLEASE ONLY APPLY ZOMBIE CHANGES IN THE SITH RAID. I use NS effectively in TW and TB and rely on my 7* g7 zombie to die. She is rendered ineffective if she is ability blocked. I need her to die and taunt. Changing it should be a refund of the crystals I spent (some money involved) to farm her. It is the reason everyone farmed her. If you are bent on changing her in the raid, using whatever (imo flawed) logic, only have it apply to the raid.
    EDIT spelling error

    Make her immunte to being buff blocked if she's nerfed harder in some way...
  • NS_Lives_Matter
    14 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    Can we just be honest and say your nerfing NS because mid range guilds are EXPLOITING the WAI Nightsisters game mechanics work. This will force players to do the "intended behavior" of spending loads of money to have multiple decent HSTR team instead of just a few NS to clear p4? Can we agree NS faction needs a nerf because by now a large majority of the payer base has already invested in NS and is clearing HSTR thus investing less money than EA/CG deemed appropriate to pass the end game content?

    Honesty goes a long way.
  • Options
    Can we just be honest and say your nerfing NS because mid range guilds are EXPLOITING the WAI Nightsisters game mechanics work. This will force players to do the "intended behavior" of spending loads of money to have multiple decent HSTR team instead of just a few NS to clear p4? Can we agree NS faction needs a nerf because by now a large majority of the payer base has already invested in NS and is clearing HSTR thus investing less money than EA/CG deemed appropriate to pass the end game content?

    Honesty goes a long way.

    They kind of can’t. It would probably lead to refunds- more easily - for players.
  • Yesac
    362 posts Member
    Options
    Can we just be honest and say your nerfing NS because mid range guilds are EXPLOITING the WAI Nightsisters game mechanics work. This will force players to do the "intended behavior" of spending loads of money to have multiple decent HSTR team instead of just a few NS to clear p4? Can we agree NS faction needs a nerf because by now a large majority of the payer base has already invested in NS and is clearing HSTR thus investing less money than EA/CG deemed appropriate to pass the end game content?

    Honesty goes a long way.

    Exactly. Maybe a nerf forces us to spend on scoundrels or bounty hunters. I wonder if they are pushing game changers and theory crafters to look at the brand new marquee characters and how they may supplement the lost damage.
  • Options
    A quick fix will be to raise your healing threshold trough 50 stacks of Bonds of Weakness.
    That’s way you blocking Critolyte team and Nightsisters will still be able to do decent damage using Darth Sion’s cycle of pain / suffering against Darth Nihilus.

    Another suggestion for fixing paper zombie situation, would be to gives us the possibility of ungearing toons.
    If we can unmod them, it will be wonderful to ungear them as well.
    So everyone could use paper zombie and we would have the possibility of swiping gear, because we all have old toons that we don’t use anymore.

    Any response at this point will be appreciated.

    Continue the good work!!! :)

    Filbe Lamon
    a BIG SWGOH fan :)
  • Options
    I will say if the changes to nsz are drastic I will quit this company “ea” for good. I will never buy or accept a product under the ea logo. I’ve taken long breaks from this game in the past due to “updates” that may not have directly affected me but were irritating but the ns team I’ve been farming for 3 months now to get 7 stars and trying to get gl 11 and if these “updates” void that time I’ve spent then we are done ea. I’ve quit Ubisoft as a company
  • Options
    So the infinite loop in DS TB where 2 hoth rebel scouts can hit zombie forever never giving acolyte a turn won't be fixed?
  • Options
    The optics around this whole change and announcement were just bad. As a player, it’s hard not to perceive this as trying to roll out a longed planned NS nerf rather than addressing a newly discovered infinite loop.

    First, when it was announced Traya was nowhere mentioned (“We are aware of a strategy with Asajj and Nightsister Acolyte that allows players to take an infinite number of turns in the Sith Triumvirate Raid.“)

    Second, there was this random double drop weekend announced. Can’t remember the last time double drops appeared out of the blue without any accompanying event or celebration.

    Third, the more detailed announcement and fix landed on a Friday afternoon, classic PR tactic for addressing bad news (https://www.kornferry.com/institute/bad-news-delivery).

    Fourth, NS Zombie somehow made it into the discussion even though NSZ wasn’t even part of the offending team.

    Fifth, Nightsisters have posting high scores for months now, why is it suddenly an issue and why are we just now hearing about it?

    Sixth, this infinite loop team at issue is probably only affecting 1/10,000 of the player base. Why did this get addressed so fast when there are so many other outstanding issues with HSR?

    Seventh, the announcement was already made to refund Daka’s zeta, makes me question how seriously the bonds of weakness cap is going to be looked at.

    Eighth, this nerf is coming at a time when whales and whale guilds are all just starting to get 7* star Trayas. So they got the benefit of NS teams while the rest of the player base won’t anymore?

    This is probably the largest in a long line of morale hits surrounding the Sith Raid. Some of which seem to make no sense at all as a player. Why the minor nerf to expose? It didn’t really seem to have any noticeable effect.

    The only way I can make sense of these decisions in my head is that there must be some kind of (non-financial) metrics that that must be met at all costs. It’s like average damage per team per phase is 5% above the target, need to nerf expose. Whoa, standard deviation of average percent damage per team per player for P4 is 60% when it should be 5%, unacceptable!

    It seems like CG is expecting too much out of STR and trying to force it to meet expectations, expectations which they haven’t shared with the playerbase, that are impossible to meet. The result is a disconnect where it feels like HSR was designed to meet the needs of CG instead of designing something that would be fun for the players.

    This especially stings with the NS nerf. I know the “feeling of pride and accomplishment” has become a joke, but for many players NS is the first team where they actually felt that way. Moreover, they are a really fun team to play, especially in HSR. It was also fun to every now and then get a good RNG run and place higher than I normally would.

    My advice to CG would be write to write HSR off as a loss. The toon base is too diverse at this point to nudge player behavior through an end game raid. Figure out different game modes that will reward players with a deep bench of higher geared characters or change the compsition of guilds.

    Don’t nerf Nightsisters. It won’t fix the problem and just add to the list of nerfs designed to fix the symptoms instead of fixing the problem.








  • Options
    I'm a NS user. If this had just been announced as a planned ns nerf, i would have been annoyed, but the way this was announced in relation to traya just infuriates me. I'm not likely to see Traya any time soon so this is like I'm being punished for someone else's bad behavior.

    It's obvious to just about anyone that Traya is just an excuse for something long planned. Stop lying to us, most of us will not react nearly as badly to a simple truth, even of we don't like it. I'll not voice my opinion of how we've been lied to lately as i don't care to get banned.. Aside from noting this... If i treated my kid the way you treat us, he'd have been taken away from me years ago.

    As for the actual nerfs involved.... Breaking infinite loops doesn't bother me. Fixing paper zombie won't bother me as i refused to succumb to that lure and my zombie is actually one of my higher geared toons.

    I do have a suggestion to the paper zombie "problem". Make asajj rampage gains dependant on the power level of the toon defeated.

    There you go. An angry post that still tries to offer something constructive.
  • Options
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDgO1zqfGak

    When's the important fix coming though? Like EN being able to full solo an elite Jedi team? This is also a full auto "loop" with endless counter attacks. For the most part of this game stuff THIS broken wasn't put out there ... is this where we are heading though? Players have no reason to play a game that the best content (Jedi teams in TW / arena by Nest and Sith Raid by Traya / Acolyte) can just be put on auto and watch 1 toon go over and over and over.

    Seems to me that nest is a very serious edge case in the game with way more impact than NS Acolyte.
  • Options
    Back in May 2017, there was a team called "Nutini" which involved Nute Gunray's leadership ability and 2 jawas which allowed them to go into an infinite loop and solo a phase of heroic AAT. The way that they fixed this team was limiting the trigger (getting critical hits) from occurring more than once each turn.

    That old fix can be read about here.

    It seems to me that we have a very similar scenario with the "Critolyte" situation, where Acolyte is interacting with Bonds of Weakness and her natural health gain (including the healthsteal from Traya). It only works because she benefits from Asajj's leadership twice in her single turn (giving her 50% turn meter twice).

    We understand why CG/EA did not change Traya's isolate ability to fix the loop (you can read why here). But why couldn't they have solved this problem by doing the same thing they did with Nute Gunray? If each character only gained the benefit from Asajj's lead once per character turn, it would stop Acolyte from getting it twice.

    Fixing the loop this way would not hinder NS performance in the raid, and also fix the loop while keeping the "design space" open in the future for characters with health steal up.

  • Options
    This would absolutely destroy acolyte’s value. The whole team hinges on her taking multiple turns in a row as long as she crits. This would probably be worse for ns than the healing cap at 20 stacks.
  • Options
    I not only understand but agree with the nerf of the critolyte team, using an exploit is not in the spirit of the game. HOWEVER, I do think EA went about it wrong, seriously damaging NS for other aspects of the game, or even their normal use in the sith raid. I personally invested a lot of resources into NS, thankfully didn't go to gear XII, but XI plus, but I not only zetad daka, I put 2 zetas on talzin and asaaj as well. So being given only the materials for 1 zeta barely scratches the surface. Not to mention gear pieces and the long farm to 7 star both talzin and zombie. Please @EA_Jesse @CG_Kozispoon take this into consideration. Thanks for listening, we all love the game, but want things to be fair.
  • Madpup
    279 posts Member
    Options
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDgO1zqfGak

    When's the important fix coming though? Like EN being able to full solo an elite Jedi team? This is also a full auto "loop" with endless counter attacks. For the most part of this game stuff THIS broken wasn't put out there ... is this where we are heading though? Players have no reason to play a game that the best content (Jedi teams in TW / arena by Nest and Sith Raid by Traya / Acolyte) can just be put on auto and watch 1 toon go over and over and over.

    Seems to me that nest is a very serious edge case in the game with way more impact than NS Acolyte.

    Don't worry, they will do something about it in 7 months after everyone is done spending money to get her.
  • Vendi1983
    5029 posts Member
    edited July 2018
    Options
    "Alright team, a maxed out version of our hardest-to-achieve character has a flaw in one of her mechanics that allows other characters to perform well above normal expectations."

    "Wow, really? We didn't think of that very specific combination when we released her kit..."

    "What should we do about it?"

    "Maybe make her non-buff isolate just like Thrawn's and have it interact with raid bosses differently?"

    "That would be a pretty easy fix, actually, you may be on to something"

    "Wait! Then we'd have to admit our biggest legendary character thus far is flawed, can we possibly blame the Nightsisters instead? And while we're at it we can also throw zombie under the bus too. She's dead already so it won't hurt..."

    *maniacal laughter ensues then everyone breaks for the afternoon swim in the cash vault a la Scrooge McDuck.*
  • Options
    This thread was already at 28 pages... I can't believe it, is there any sort of censorship?

    But everything regarding the STR is just "Fake News"

    Your post in on page 26 now, and we have been on page 32 for the last 12+ hours, but the earliest message on this page is 30 minutes ago.
This discussion has been closed.