It’s all well and good they promote our ability to report cheaters but I don’t work for Capital Games. We as a community dump a lot of money to make this game successful. We shouldn’t have to be beta testers AND cheat prevention.
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
that is most likely wrong
because there are several reasons that come along with knowing it
known cheaters are still getting crystals in arena from others, still got their gac rewards and their opponents have still not been compensated
so obv you have to know the outcome because it directly affects noncheaters in every gamemode
and people need to feel better knowing it because the trust in cgs anticheat tools was never high anyways
why would people invest money to compete with cheaters?
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Check out division 3 Kyber league. Top guy has almost 2000 more points than the #2 player. Can 1 player really be THAT much better than everyone else at 3.8 mil GP? I doubt it. No names, you can look for yourself if you are so inclined. Not saying they cheated but that is a heck of a lot of match making luck to be able to roll every opponent like that.
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Perhaps the ally codes rather than the names. Can't copy that as far as I know so no duping.
"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Perhaps the ally codes rather than the names. Can't copy that as far as I know so no duping.
Just curious, what would be the point? If they posted a list of numbers, what benefit would it be to you?
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Perhaps the ally codes rather than the names. Can't copy that as far as I know so no duping.
Just curious, what would be the point? If they posted a list of numbers, what benefit would it be to you?
An added level of anonymity should the player at some point be exonerated. False accusations happen. Had a guildmate sit out for a week during the first DR event (used a g8 Juhani but with good enough mods on Jolee to allow for resurrections) before CG realized he didn't cheat and allowed him back in.
"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
Shame. I’m requesting all my money back this week. Not because of the cheating per se... (of course that will be my reason)... but because of them silencing content creators.
This is very unethical and you are a bad person for doing this.
You're trying to game the system (see what I did there ) because of bad actors. Maybe I should use this logic to tell the government I want all my money in taxes back because some people don't pay taxes. You're just using this drama to serve your own agenda of getting your money back while benefiting from the in-game currency you paid for
I don't blame CG for pulling those two videos down because the message to the wider audience was that "you can cheat and get away with it"
What an amusing comment....this whole game is unethical!
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Perhaps the ally codes rather than the names. Can't copy that as far as I know so no duping.
Just curious, what would be the point? If they posted a list of numbers, what benefit would it be to you?
An added level of anonymity should the player at some point be exonerated. False accusations happen. Had a guildmate sit out for a week during the first DR event (used a g8 Juhani but with good enough mods on Jolee to allow for resurrections) before CG realized he didn't cheat and allowed him back in.
I mean why post any list? Name or ally code or anything at all?
@Kyno ty for always answering in these type of threads and fully communicating why posts are being closed and giving the most up to date info the community has.
@Bulldog1205 I don’t think they will ever add you to test. But it’s a loss for us all.
If you know someone that is cheating report them. They shut down tournaments because of this. And GAC is better than tourneys.
I gave up on that a while ago. They’ve made it pretty clear they don’t have interest in me. I did kind of laugh when I’ve been trying forever to try and talk without CG about getting in and have been completely ignored, but they get in contact with me an hour after the video is released at something like 1:30 am.
Two thoughts:
1. Perhaps Bulldogs alt wasn’t caught because he didn’t win a GA. If I was implementing an anti cheating system and trying to save as much money as possible, I would probably only inspect data for winners on the assumption that cheaters aren’t usually doing such to lose... doing a batch inspect of winners eliminates processing unnecessary data.
2. It is interesting that the Top 10 finishers in D1 GA are all sub 5m. Now granted only playing 15 people means there is a small sample size and luck plays a big part. But it IS interesting.
I view (hopefully accurately) this exhibition GAC as a stress test for the cheater detection and ban system. If GC would give an update on how that worked out; such as number of flagged players, number of temp bans, and number of permanent bans issued during the GAC, it would ease a lot of peoples minds.
I view (hopefully accurately) this exhibition GAC as a stress test for the cheater detection and ban system. If GC would give an update on how that worked out; such as number of flagged players, number of temp bans, and number of permanent bans issued during the GAC, it would ease a lot of peoples minds.
It could also have the opposite effect and increase the frequency of cheating.
2. It is interesting that the Top 10 finishers in D1 GA are all sub 5m. Now granted only playing 15 people means there is a small sample size and luck plays a big part. But it IS interesting.
Krakens are salty at being locked out of top 10, thus the current stink about cheating.
I stopped visiting the forums because I was tired of Kyno defending literally everything CG did (or didn't do), regardless of how indefensible the position.
Came back to see if this issue was being discussed, wasn't surprised to see that nothing has changed.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
I have to disagree with this, unless you were in the military as their system of justice is not public.
However..
The public knowledge of injustice is what will get things changed, and the public knowledge of the justice will provide the peace.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
Sorry, but with this comment, you show you clearly have no understanding of how justice works. Secrecy defeats the working of justice, it only foster mistrust. It’s been a basic principle for, like, two or three centuries. Or forever, rather. Justice is not about punishing people trespassing, but about society’s cohesion, keeping the herd under control. For that, the herd needs to see the rules are effectively enforced.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
Sorry, but with this comment, you show you clearly have no understanding of how justice works. Secrecy defeats the working of justice, it only foster mistrust. It’s been a basic principle for, like, two or three centuries. Or forever, rather. Justice is not about punishing people trespassing, but about society’s cohesion, keeping the herd under control. For that, the herd needs to see the rules are effectively enforced.
So, after a spate of cheating in another game, the dev posted weekly or bi weekly or monthly updates on bans. It was Bungie and their banhammer I believe.
A post from the devs along the lines of: "We permanently banned X accounts and heres a chart showing that we permabanned some accounts with X Y and Z GP and we have X more under investigation. To properly report this do X"
Do that a few weeks in a row and then monthly and it will give the players confidence that something is being done, and cheaters reason to reconsider. The breaks between the GAC rounds would be a good time to do this.
Unlike Halo where you can just create a new account, a lifetime ban of an account with 4M GP is no joke and HURTS.
Brilliant idea. definitely recommend this approach @CG_SBCrumb
It must be an in-game news letter to be effective
Agreed. I understand "dont talk about it" has some merit when its in nascent stages, but after it has gone on for so long it should be addressed head on, with real public consequences and it should be an in game mail to have more deterrence.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.
Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.
I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma
Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space
I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.
Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.
That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.
It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."
and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.
We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.
Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.
My only remark was to leave the baseless claim that they did nothing out of this.
If you dont believe what they are saying then there is no reason to be here asking for an update that you wont believe.
No we dont know that the automated tools they added dont work. We dont know that these accounts were not flagged for investigation. We also dont know how many players did get banned or have some actions taken against them. But that doesnt matter, since you wouldnt believe any if that anyway.
I have far greater trust in judges than in a private company. Yet, even the most honorable ones go by the aphorism "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done." Justice behind closed curtains is no justice.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
The level of "excitement" that has been shown here when there is little to no proof of how wide spread this is, would say yes it could be.
Numbers without basis are not good, people use them to extrapolate meaning where there is no reasonable way to do so.
I'm not opposed to the idea but for them to post numbers of how many are banned/caught/suspected or what have you, could definitely backfire when there is points we dont know, i.e. - the size of the player base, how many are repeat offenders, how many are "just testing the system", under investigation, false positives that are later "ok"....
Two thoughts:
1. Perhaps Bulldogs alt wasn’t caught because he didn’t win a GA. If I was implementing an anti cheating system and trying to save as much money as possible, I would probably only inspect data for winners on the assumption that cheaters aren’t usually doing such to lose... doing a batch inspect of winners eliminates processing unnecessary data.
2. It is interesting that the Top 10 finishers in D1 GA are all sub 5m. Now granted only playing 15 people means there is a small sample size and luck plays a big part. But it IS interesting.
1) My alt did win matches. 3 I think? Only because my opponent didn’t participate at all, but if it’s an automated system that only checks winners I still would have been caught. Also I cheated in fleet and squad arena, which would surely register as a “win”. Unless they only check top 100 or whatever. I can’t remember how far down the account was. With the inactives in the 500s or so. But yes, I do believe the primary reason I wasn’t caught was because I wasn’t reported. But that’s still a problem, since it can be hard to spot, and especially since they made an announcement stating they were going to be better about catching these things without us needing to report.
2) It just supports my complaint earlier that your opponents defense is extremely important to scoring. Sub 5 million accounts no doubt see easier defenses than the 5.5 million whales.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
Sorry, but with this comment, you show you clearly have no understanding of how justice works. Secrecy defeats the working of justice, it only foster mistrust. It’s been a basic principle for, like, two or three centuries. Or forever, rather. Justice is not about punishing people trespassing, but about society’s cohesion, keeping the herd under control. For that, the herd needs to see the rules are effectively enforced.
I would rather people make educated choices and be independent thinkers than follow the herd. If you need proof the sun will rise tomorrow, then society is lost already.
Good leadership should never need to prove they do what is just, the problem is people are easily foolded into putting the wrong people into positions of power, then regret it and request proof of intent later. I would rather cut out the middle man and trust the system I put my faith into, or put my faith in a different system.
I gave up on that a while ago. They’ve made it pretty clear they don’t have interest in me. I did kind of laugh when I’ve been trying forever to try and talk without CG about getting in and have been completely ignored, but they get in contact with me an hour after the video is released at something like 1:30 am.
I'm super glad you are transparent on all of this. I also have a huge amount of respect for the amount of time you had to invest into this just to prove your point.
Thanks for the hard work in meticulously crafting this demonstration that cant be ignored.
Replies
The end of CG is coming.
There are many reasons that they "cant" tall about this and may not "be able" to discuss the solution and the ongoing practice of said solution. Some wont accept them but there are legitimate reasons to not publically shame customers.
I will respectfully disagree with any argument that "justice" needs to be public. If justice is severed then it has been served regardless of anyone's knowledge of it. True justice doesnt need anyone to feel better about knowing it happened.
because there are several reasons that come along with knowing it
known cheaters are still getting crystals in arena from others, still got their gac rewards and their opponents have still not been compensated
so obv you have to know the outcome because it directly affects noncheaters in every gamemode
and people need to feel better knowing it because the trust in cgs anticheat tools was never high anyways
why would people invest money to compete with cheaters?
You sir are a genius! Lmao.
@Kyno I agree probably should not show account names for many reasons. But stating General numbers of bans and some choice account GP numbers should have no issue. It wont have a deterrant effect otherwise.
Publishing ingame names is no issue either IMO. Those names mean nothing, you're not giving out their email or address. The only downside is someone who might copy the name of a well known player and cheat to make it look like the well known player was banned. If all bans were permanent/account deleted like they should be, there would be no issue with posting the names.
Perhaps the ally codes rather than the names. Can't copy that as far as I know so no duping.
Just curious, what would be the point? If they posted a list of numbers, what benefit would it be to you?
An added level of anonymity should the player at some point be exonerated. False accusations happen. Had a guildmate sit out for a week during the first DR event (used a g8 Juhani but with good enough mods on Jolee to allow for resurrections) before CG realized he didn't cheat and allowed him back in.
What an amusing comment....this whole game is unethical!
I mean why post any list? Name or ally code or anything at all?
I gave up on that a while ago. They’ve made it pretty clear they don’t have interest in me. I did kind of laugh when I’ve been trying forever to try and talk without CG about getting in and have been completely ignored, but they get in contact with me an hour after the video is released at something like 1:30 am.
1. Perhaps Bulldogs alt wasn’t caught because he didn’t win a GA. If I was implementing an anti cheating system and trying to save as much money as possible, I would probably only inspect data for winners on the assumption that cheaters aren’t usually doing such to lose... doing a batch inspect of winners eliminates processing unnecessary data.
2. It is interesting that the Top 10 finishers in D1 GA are all sub 5m. Now granted only playing 15 people means there is a small sample size and luck plays a big part. But it IS interesting.
It could also have the opposite effect and increase the frequency of cheating.
Krakens are salty at being locked out of top 10, thus the current stink about cheating.
Came back to see if this issue was being discussed, wasn't surprised to see that nothing has changed.
I have to disagree with this, unless you were in the military as their system of justice is not public.
However..
The public knowledge of injustice is what will get things changed, and the public knowledge of the justice will provide the peace.
All those posts are against forum guidelines but this one is still alive. Interesting !
That's why public hangings are so popular still.
The level of "excitement" that has been shown here when there is little to no proof of how wide spread this is, would say yes it could be.
Numbers without basis are not good, people use them to extrapolate meaning where there is no reasonable way to do so.
I'm not opposed to the idea but for them to post numbers of how many are banned/caught/suspected or what have you, could definitely backfire when there is points we dont know, i.e. - the size of the player base, how many are repeat offenders, how many are "just testing the system", under investigation, false positives that are later "ok"....
1) My alt did win matches. 3 I think? Only because my opponent didn’t participate at all, but if it’s an automated system that only checks winners I still would have been caught. Also I cheated in fleet and squad arena, which would surely register as a “win”. Unless they only check top 100 or whatever. I can’t remember how far down the account was. With the inactives in the 500s or so. But yes, I do believe the primary reason I wasn’t caught was because I wasn’t reported. But that’s still a problem, since it can be hard to spot, and especially since they made an announcement stating they were going to be better about catching these things without us needing to report.
2) It just supports my complaint earlier that your opponents defense is extremely important to scoring. Sub 5 million accounts no doubt see easier defenses than the 5.5 million whales.
I would rather people make educated choices and be independent thinkers than follow the herd. If you need proof the sun will rise tomorrow, then society is lost already.
Good leadership should never need to prove they do what is just, the problem is people are easily foolded into putting the wrong people into positions of power, then regret it and request proof of intent later. I would rather cut out the middle man and trust the system I put my faith into, or put my faith in a different system.
I'm super glad you are transparent on all of this. I also have a huge amount of respect for the amount of time you had to invest into this just to prove your point.
Thanks for the hard work in meticulously crafting this demonstration that cant be ignored.