There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
If the new GLs are only on par with the current GLs then they aren't meta by that definition because you can't have 4 best teams.
If it is a rock paper scissor arena where there is no meta team and jml plays a role in that, then he would be on par with the other GLs. But not necessarily meta. Only one team is really meta at a time. I would say that currently kylo is meta since he has less counters or at least harder to perfect counters than Rey. And he dominates in more aspects of the game.
Whether PP or JML dethrone him as meta remains to be seen. But they can't both be meta.
Meta has been used in gaming for quite a long time. It merely means the greek meta. The M.E.T.A you are claiming got into usage decades after meta has been talked about in gaming articles/communication. Even with that one the abbreviation is for "most effective tactics avaliable". Not a single one, but plural and it can mean various thing in context of a game. You can look that up if you want to.
What matters in terms of this discussion is if you meant a single team by it though. Rock-paper-scisors meta is also a meta. As far as we've seen JML falls short of it.
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
No it isn't. And no it hasn't. It's not an acronym for anything. It's just whatever is most used in arena (or in whatever area when prefaced with that, i.e. TW meta).
well, it is used as an acronym for that, and a few other variations of that idea.
what is widely used in a "meta driven game" is generally accepted as the META (and its multiple variations). they are widely used because at the time they are the most effective at winning/holding position. so even if you disagree with the exact usage of the acronym, you are still agreeing with the conceptual nature of its meaning, and that has been used in this game since the beginning. (the concept, maybe not the acronym, but i kinda think the acronym has been too)
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
If the new GLs are only on par with the current GLs then they aren't meta by that definition because you can't have 4 best teams.
If it is a rock paper scissor arena where there is no meta team and jml plays a role in that, then he would be on par with the other GLs. But not necessarily meta. Only one team is really meta at a time. I would say that currently kylo is meta since he has less counters or at least harder to perfect counters than Rey. And he dominates in more aspects of the game.
Whether PP or JML dethrone him as meta remains to be seen. But they can't both be meta.
Meta has been used in gaming for quite a long time. It merely means the greek meta. The M.E.T.A you are claiming got into usage decades after meta has been talked about in gaming articles/communication. Even with that one the abbreviation is for "most effective tactics avaliable". Not a single one, but plural and it can mean various thing in context of a game. You can look that up if you want to.
What matters in terms of this discussion is if you meant a single team by it though. Rock-paper-scisors meta is also a meta. As far as we've seen JML falls short of it.
We can agree to disagree on whether meta refers to one team or not. But the fact remains that when you start having several GLs, they can't all be the best.
But I think jml is on par with them.
1. He gets the massive boost to health from the Galactic Legends ability
2. He has an ultimate ability
3. He has ridiculous requirements like the other GLs
4. He has non GL counters (the other GLs do too)
He may not be as good in some areas but he is on par with the other GLs by those criteria.
By my definition of meta, I think either Kylo or PP will be the best team to have based on their kits. But it's too early to tell.
META is Most Effective Tactic Available. It extends a bit beyond SWGOH, but carries the same idea.
Metagame or meta in a game has been used in similar meaning since gaming has been a thing. Guess people that haven't been around as long haven't noticed the catchy abbreviation form rose out of mmorpg forums only past 2k and caught up traction past 2010s.
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
No it isn't. And no it hasn't. It's not an acronym for anything. It's just whatever is most used in arena (or in whatever area when prefaced with that, i.e. TW meta).
well, it is used as an acronym for that, and a few other variations of that idea.
what is widely used in a "meta driven game" is generally accepted as the META (and its multiple variations). they are widely used because at the time they are the most effective at winning/holding position. so even if you disagree with the exact usage of the acronym, you are still agreeing with the conceptual nature of its meaning, and that has been used in this game since the beginning. (the concept, maybe not the acronym, but i kinda think the acronym has been too)
Not quite. I've been here basically since launch, and have never seen it used as an acronym. Though I do largely still agree with its general meaning, except that here it is not just a team, or a tactic, or even 'teams.' In almost every instance it is more character driven. This is easily observed by checking the meta reports on .gg.
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
If the new GLs are only on par with the current GLs then they aren't meta by that definition because you can't have 4 best teams.
If it is a rock paper scissor arena where there is no meta team and jml plays a role in that, then he would be on par with the other GLs. But not necessarily meta. Only one team is really meta at a time. I would say that currently kylo is meta since he has less counters or at least harder to perfect counters than Rey. And he dominates in more aspects of the game.
Whether PP or JML dethrone him as meta remains to be seen. But they can't both be meta.
Meta has been used in gaming for quite a long time. It merely means the greek meta. The M.E.T.A you are claiming got into usage decades after meta has been talked about in gaming articles/communication. Even with that one the abbreviation is for "most effective tactics avaliable". Not a single one, but plural and it can mean various thing in context of a game. You can look that up if you want to.
What matters in terms of this discussion is if you meant a single team by it though. Rock-paper-scisors meta is also a meta. As far as we've seen JML falls short of it.
We can agree to disagree on whether meta refers to one team or not. But the fact remains that when you start having several GLs, they can't all be the best.
But I think jml is on par with them.
1. He gets the massive boost to health from the Galactic Legends ability
2. He has an ultimate ability
3. He has ridiculous requirements like the other GLs
4. He has non GL counters (the other GLs do too)
He may not be as good in some areas but he is on par with the other GLs by those criteria.
By my definition of meta, I think either Kylo or PP will be the best team to have based on their kits. But it's too early to tell.
Ok then. And I think we'll see touch-ups to GLs after. the community scans the plethora of possibilities between these 4 and their counters.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
No it isn't. And no it hasn't. It's not an acronym for anything. It's just whatever is most used in arena (or in whatever area when prefaced with that, i.e. TW meta).
well, it is used as an acronym for that, and a few other variations of that idea.
what is widely used in a "meta driven game" is generally accepted as the META (and its multiple variations). they are widely used because at the time they are the most effective at winning/holding position. so even if you disagree with the exact usage of the acronym, you are still agreeing with the conceptual nature of its meaning, and that has been used in this game since the beginning. (the concept, maybe not the acronym, but i kinda think the acronym has been too)
Not quite. I've been here basically since launch, and have never seen it used as an acronym. Though I do largely still agree with its general meaning, except that here it is not just a team, or a tactic, or even 'teams.' In almost every instance it is more character driven. This is easily observed by checking the meta reports on .gg.
yes i see what you mean. it can have different meanings, but its always around the same concept, meaning the most used or "best". you use "meta" teams in TW, and in arena it is always the most used, its never meant to mean the counters or other variations you see. and that tends to be how people reply when others call a counter the "meta", and they will reference the meta report, but still looking at the top usage, not necessarily 1 toon.
there are many break downs of the meta in the meta report, to help isolate details.
There wasn't such a thing as promoting characters months in advance and reveal the reqs step by step. There would be a short flash event where f2p could only possibly catch by hoarding the first time.
Seems we completely disagree on definition of meta too. Up there with the previous 2 gls would make the new gls meta, not necessarily being more powerful than them.
Meta is short for most effective team available. And it has been used in this game for years to describe the best arena team.
If the new GLs are only on par with the current GLs then they aren't meta by that definition because you can't have 4 best teams.
If it is a rock paper scissor arena where there is no meta team and jml plays a role in that, then he would be on par with the other GLs. But not necessarily meta. Only one team is really meta at a time. I would say that currently kylo is meta since he has less counters or at least harder to perfect counters than Rey. And he dominates in more aspects of the game.
Whether PP or JML dethrone him as meta remains to be seen. But they can't both be meta.
Meta has been used in gaming for quite a long time. It merely means the greek meta. The M.E.T.A you are claiming got into usage decades after meta has been talked about in gaming articles/communication. Even with that one the abbreviation is for "most effective tactics avaliable". Not a single one, but plural and it can mean various thing in context of a game. You can look that up if you want to.
What matters in terms of this discussion is if you meant a single team by it though. Rock-paper-scisors meta is also a meta. As far as we've seen JML falls short of it.
We can agree to disagree on whether meta refers to one team or not. But the fact remains that when you start having several GLs, they can't all be the best.
But I think jml is on par with them.
1. He gets the massive boost to health from the Galactic Legends ability
2. He has an ultimate ability
3. He has ridiculous requirements like the other GLs
4. He has non GL counters (the other GLs do too)
He may not be as good in some areas but he is on par with the other GLs by those criteria.
By my definition of meta, I think either Kylo or PP will be the best team to have based on their kits. But it's too early to tell.
Ok then. And I think we'll see touch-ups to GLs after. the community scans the plethora of possibilities between these 4 and their counters.
Only time will tell that. But so far I haven't seen much that requires attention. I have heard that putting one of jml's Zetas on him makes his ultimate take longer. That may require a touch up but it is still early to know if that is going on.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
Personally I find Rey teams under a Revan or a GAS lead to be more difficult on defense than under Rey's lead. So they may be fine with it.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Ok then put him in the leader slot if you think that's best. But Darth Revan is a counter to taunting tanks in the leader slot.
And I think that was obvious enough to even CG that it is likely working as intended.
I would however argue your point that jml can't get his ultimate if he's not in the lead. Yes, it may be slower. But it's also slower if your team is all feared constantly.
If you use a jkl lead with gmy for tenacity up and hoda to get jkl going, you have plenty of time to get your ultimate. Gmy keeps the debuffs away. Jkl and jml are immune to fear and jml taunts so dr can't fear anyone else. Jml taunts and is basically immune to malak's force drain.
So you have plenty of time. Other than killing the team too quickly.
So it looks like he's designed to be a leader but with a Darth Revan counter that is easily overcome by changing leaderships and one character in the team.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Ok then put him in the leader slot if you think that's best. But Darth Revan is a counter to taunting tanks in the leader slot.
And I think that was obvious enough to even CG that it is likely working as intended.
I would however argue your point that jml can't get his ultimate if he's not in the lead. Yes, it may be slower. But it's also slower if your team is all feared constantly.
If you use a jkl lead with gmy for tenacity up and hoda to get jkl going, you have plenty of time to get your ultimate. Gmy keeps the debuffs away. Jkl and jml are immune to fear and jml taunts so dr can't fear anyone else. Jml taunts and is basically immune to malak's force drain.
So you have plenty of time. Other than killing the team too quickly.
So it looks like he's designed to be a leader but with a Darth Revan counter that is easily overcome by changing leaderships and one character in the team.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Ok then put him in the leader slot if you think that's best. But Darth Revan is a counter to taunting tanks in the leader slot.
And I think that was obvious enough to even CG that it is likely working as intended.
I would however argue your point that jml can't get his ultimate if he's not in the lead. Yes, it may be slower. But it's also slower if your team is all feared constantly.
If you use a jkl lead with gmy for tenacity up and hoda to get jkl going, you have plenty of time to get your ultimate. Gmy keeps the debuffs away. Jkl and jml are immune to fear and jml taunts so dr can't fear anyone else. Jml taunts and is basically immune to malak's force drain.
So you have plenty of time. Other than killing the team too quickly.
So it looks like he's designed to be a leader but with a Darth Revan counter that is easily overcome by changing leaderships and one character in the team.
Seems ok to me.
Was DR really designed as a counter to teams with a tank lead? When he was released, there were no meta teams with a tank in the lead. You had JKR, CLS, Padme, none of which had tank leaderships. Bossk is the only team I can think of, and there was no need to counter that team.
Given the way teams have been built in SWGoH, with JML being the first taunting lead I can remember in arena, I would argue that DR's "fear applies to the whole team if it targets the leader" is designed to make him more powerful when played on offense, where the player can intentionally wipe out any taunts and target the leader (which the AI wouldn't necessarily do).
That said, I'm sure they at least somewhat recognized this impact when they designed JML, but I do think it's a little stupid to have an 18 month old team, with minimal theorycrafting or strategy, able to easily counter a brand new GL team.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
Of course it is - and that's why no one said that (except you - nice strawman).
Also, you might want to Google "Preeminent" too.
Whatever. You obviously refuse to admit when you are mistaken - even when you clearly are. I'm done here.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Ok then put him in the leader slot if you think that's best. But Darth Revan is a counter to taunting tanks in the leader slot.
And I think that was obvious enough to even CG that it is likely working as intended.
I would however argue your point that jml can't get his ultimate if he's not in the lead. Yes, it may be slower. But it's also slower if your team is all feared constantly.
If you use a jkl lead with gmy for tenacity up and hoda to get jkl going, you have plenty of time to get your ultimate. Gmy keeps the debuffs away. Jkl and jml are immune to fear and jml taunts so dr can't fear anyone else. Jml taunts and is basically immune to malak's force drain.
So you have plenty of time. Other than killing the team too quickly.
So it looks like he's designed to be a leader but with a Darth Revan counter that is easily overcome by changing leaderships and one character in the team.
Seems ok to me.
Was DR really designed as a counter to teams with a tank lead? When he was released, there were no meta teams with a tank in the lead. You had JKR, CLS, Padme, none of which had tank leaderships. Bossk is the only team I can think of, and there was no need to counter that team.
Given the way teams have been built in SWGoH, with JML being the first taunting lead I can remember in arena, I would argue that DR's "fear applies to the whole team if it targets the leader" is designed to make him more powerful when played on offense, where the player can intentionally wipe out any taunts and target the leader (which the AI wouldn't necessarily do).
That said, I'm sure they at least somewhat recognized this impact when they designed JML, but I do think it's a little stupid to have an 18 month old team, with minimal theorycrafting or strategy, able to easily counter a brand new GL team.
Since his kit puts fear on the whole team and pretaunting non leader tanks were essential to countering him at the time, it would be pretty obvious that taunting tank leads would be bad against him.
You are correct that taunting tank leads weren't meta at the time but Darth revan crushes them non the less. It's in his kit.
I give CG credit to be able to understand what's in previous kits. This one is so obvious that I'll assume it's intended.
Team composition not right ? Well jml kit is designed to work only with jedi. Without even one he is no taunt tank. Perfectly ridiculous. So the theorycraft with him is really really poor. Just jedi. And the tests made showed that it is not good. Even a 2 yeas old meta is kicking his ****. No one will want to spend money on that, and I am betting that it is not what CG wants.
For you the ai design is right ? Not using his main ability on defense is right and intended ? How can you be so blind ? Even CG just said it is not right xD
For me it is just trolling for trolling like all the others that are always fine with every mistake CG does. You need balance between GL if not the money will not follow. Period
Have you seen the timeout team with him under a Bastilla lead? Seems decent. Still too early to tell but it may be better than jml in the lead.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
Of course it is - and that's why no one said that (except you - nice strawman).
Also, you might want to Google "Preeminent" too.
Whatever. You obviously refuse to admit when you are mistaken - even when you clearly are. I'm done here.
I don't need to Google preeminent. I already know what it means.
What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.
What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.
You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.
So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.
I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.
On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.
I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?
Nope just means the counter is effective.
My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.
If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?
What a silly argument. Does it really matter if CG put Tank leader in his descrition? CG's recommendations are not always right
Resistance Leader who safeguards her allies by providing powerful shields and delivering high damage
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.
You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.
My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.
I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?
Replies
Meta has been used in gaming for quite a long time. It merely means the greek meta. The M.E.T.A you are claiming got into usage decades after meta has been talked about in gaming articles/communication. Even with that one the abbreviation is for "most effective tactics avaliable". Not a single one, but plural and it can mean various thing in context of a game. You can look that up if you want to.
What matters in terms of this discussion is if you meant a single team by it though. Rock-paper-scisors meta is also a meta. As far as we've seen JML falls short of it.
well, it is used as an acronym for that, and a few other variations of that idea.
what is widely used in a "meta driven game" is generally accepted as the META (and its multiple variations). they are widely used because at the time they are the most effective at winning/holding position. so even if you disagree with the exact usage of the acronym, you are still agreeing with the conceptual nature of its meaning, and that has been used in this game since the beginning. (the concept, maybe not the acronym, but i kinda think the acronym has been too)
We can agree to disagree on whether meta refers to one team or not. But the fact remains that when you start having several GLs, they can't all be the best.
But I think jml is on par with them.
1. He gets the massive boost to health from the Galactic Legends ability
2. He has an ultimate ability
3. He has ridiculous requirements like the other GLs
4. He has non GL counters (the other GLs do too)
He may not be as good in some areas but he is on par with the other GLs by those criteria.
By my definition of meta, I think either Kylo or PP will be the best team to have based on their kits. But it's too early to tell.
Metagame or meta in a game has been used in similar meaning since gaming has been a thing. Guess people that haven't been around as long haven't noticed the catchy abbreviation form rose out of mmorpg forums only past 2k and caught up traction past 2010s.
Not quite. I've been here basically since launch, and have never seen it used as an acronym. Though I do largely still agree with its general meaning, except that here it is not just a team, or a tactic, or even 'teams.' In almost every instance it is more character driven. This is easily observed by checking the meta reports on .gg.
Ok then. And I think we'll see touch-ups to GLs after. the community scans the plethora of possibilities between these 4 and their counters.
Yes now I have seen it like everyone. It seems pretty strong on defense. But seems not used as CG expected. I dont think they put a GL lead tank working supposedly only with jedi with a dark side toon under an okish lead. But I must admit I was wrong concerning the theorycrafting.
Seems pretty solid to me
yes i see what you mean. it can have different meanings, but its always around the same concept, meaning the most used or "best". you use "meta" teams in TW, and in arena it is always the most used, its never meant to mean the counters or other variations you see. and that tends to be how people reply when others call a counter the "meta", and they will reference the meta report, but still looking at the top usage, not necessarily 1 toon.
there are many break downs of the meta in the meta report, to help isolate details.
Only time will tell that. But so far I haven't seen much that requires attention. I have heard that putting one of jml's Zetas on him makes his ultimate take longer. That may require a touch up but it is still early to know if that is going on.
Who can say what they intended. Just became a GL has a leadership doesn't mean it will be best in the lead.
Personally I find Rey teams under a Revan or a GAS lead to be more difficult on defense than under Rey's lead. So they may be fine with it.
His kit reveal literally says "Preeminent Tank Leader for Jedi Squads". But feel free to keep making things up because they fit your point
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
In all seriousness, I will give JML the "better than Mace" crown. Generous, I know.
he's going to argue the definition of preeminent now.
I'm sure there are many situations where he is better in the lead. Probably against 90% of teams. But on defense if you're concerned about a Darth Revan counter, you may want to switch him out of the lead.
So just because they put tank leader in his description, there are supposed to be no situations where he's better not in the lead?
That's just ridiculous
No, he's just saying they clearly intended him to be the leader. As they told us that's where he's best. Also, it's not practical for him to ever get to ultimate unless he's int he leader slot, so not putting him there means you don't need to worry about a DR counter, because the DR counter won't be needed since JML won't get to his ultimate anyway.
Ok then put him in the leader slot if you think that's best. But Darth Revan is a counter to taunting tanks in the leader slot.
And I think that was obvious enough to even CG that it is likely working as intended.
I would however argue your point that jml can't get his ultimate if he's not in the lead. Yes, it may be slower. But it's also slower if your team is all feared constantly.
If you use a jkl lead with gmy for tenacity up and hoda to get jkl going, you have plenty of time to get your ultimate. Gmy keeps the debuffs away. Jkl and jml are immune to fear and jml taunts so dr can't fear anyone else. Jml taunts and is basically immune to malak's force drain.
So you have plenty of time. Other than killing the team too quickly.
So it looks like he's designed to be a leader but with a Darth Revan counter that is easily overcome by changing leaderships and one character in the team.
Seems ok to me.
Disagree.
Given the way teams have been built in SWGoH, with JML being the first taunting lead I can remember in arena, I would argue that DR's "fear applies to the whole team if it targets the leader" is designed to make him more powerful when played on offense, where the player can intentionally wipe out any taunts and target the leader (which the AI wouldn't necessarily do).
That said, I'm sure they at least somewhat recognized this impact when they designed JML, but I do think it's a little stupid to have an 18 month old team, with minimal theorycrafting or strategy, able to easily counter a brand new GL team.
Of course it is - and that's why no one said that (except you - nice strawman).
Also, you might want to Google "Preeminent" too.
Whatever. You obviously refuse to admit when you are mistaken - even when you clearly are. I'm done here.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Rey is better surrounded by Jedi not leading Resistance
even her suggested synergy includes 2 non- resistance units.
Since his kit puts fear on the whole team and pretaunting non leader tanks were essential to countering him at the time, it would be pretty obvious that taunting tank leads would be bad against him.
You are correct that taunting tank leads weren't meta at the time but Darth revan crushes them non the less. It's in his kit.
I give CG credit to be able to understand what's in previous kits. This one is so obvious that I'll assume it's intended.
I don't need to Google preeminent. I already know what it means.
Depends entirely on the context. In arena, she's best with Jedi. In TB, she's best with Resistance. In GA/TW I always put her with resistance.
But it also brings extra attention to the fact that JML is significantly worse when he's not leading a Jedi squad. You cannot say the same for Rey.
So whether Rey is with Resistance depends on context but whether you put JML in the leader slot shouldn't?
Seems to me if it's ok for Rey to be described as a Resistance Leader yet still be paired with other ls non resistance characters in some situations, it's also ok for JML to be described as a Tank Leader and still be used in a team where he isn't the leader in some situations.
No, it's perfectly fine with Rey because she's good and gets to her ultimate no matter how you use her. That is not the case with JML, as he is only worthwhile if he can get to his ultimate, which is only practical if he's the leader.
You can probably stop. He thinks he's right as long as he posts last - regardless as to actual facts or how many times he's changed his position.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
So you admit that the "doesn't match the description" arguement is complete ****.
I have not seen enough evidence on whether jml can or can't get his ultimate fast enough. Hence why my original position was that it's too early to see whether he's broken or not.
On defense especially, if they are showing an effective counter, it is likely he won't get his ultimate since preventing that is the point of the counter.
I face multiple Rey teams in arena with a vader lead. I keep her from getting her ultimate frequently in those attempts. In fact, I keep her from that probably 95% of the time. Does that mean she's broken?
Nope just means the counter is effective.
My position has been and remains that complaining is premature because changing the composition and or mods may still change how the team works.
If you have evidence jml not working as his kit describes, then feel free to share it. But I don't believe a video of him being beaten on defense without reaching his ultimate is evidence of him being broken. I have seen videos and beaten both kylo and rey teams with no GL in my team without them reaching their ultimate. Are they broken too?
My position is that it's too soon to complain that jml is broken. I have seen no evidence of him not working as his kit describes. And I believe that he is likely working as intended by CG.
I could be wrong on the last one but haven't seen evidence of it. Where have I been inconsistent on those points?
Please provide details.