Actually all necessary data can be obtained from logs, can be analyzed and compared. Other data like arena roster can be taken even from swgoh. Keep an eye can mean either that they are still searching for bugs and are ready to fix them or they are really going to buff SEE, the second idea seems phantom. So I absolutely sure that all necessary data is already collected and analyzed, this collected data is enough to see that Palp is much weaker than other 3 GLs. So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deeper than absence of time data etc
Regarding Kylo buffs, it was a new toon and it was obligatory to make him strong to make people invest resources, now the situation is absolutely different from what he had some time ago, For me it’s hard to believe that See can finally get buffed, because there is no urgency to promote and improve him for devs
Actually all necessary data can be obtained from logs, can be analyzed and compared. Other data like arena roster can be taken even from swgoh. Keep an eye can mean either that they are still searching for bugs and are ready to fix them or they are really going to buff SEE, the second idea seems phantom. So I absolutely sure that all necessary data is already collected and analyzed, this collected data is enough to see that Palp is much weaker than other 3 GLs. So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deepe than absence of time data etc
I think you underestimate how much data is out there. Part of what they are looking for is where to focus, rather than just blindly start looking at all the data they have access to.
Yes, in the early stages they are likely looking for bugs or issues that are affecting his performance.
they took a while to get GL Kylo in line too, none of whats happening now doesn't fit that rough timeline, so you can assume that, but its not likely to be true. (this also applies to your other post)
Actually all necessary data can be obtained from logs, can be analyzed and compared. Other data like arena roster can be taken even from swgoh. Keep an eye can mean either that they are still searching for bugs and are ready to fix them or they are really going to buff SEE, the second idea seems phantom. So I absolutely sure that all necessary data is already collected and analyzed, this collected data is enough to see that Palp is much weaker than other 3 GLs. So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deepe than absence of time data etc
I think you underestimate how much data is out there. Part of what they are looking for is where to focus, rather than just blindly start looking at all the data they have access to.
Yes, in the early stages they are likely looking for bugs or issues that are affecting his performance.
they took a while to get GL Kylo in line too, none of whats happening now doesn't fit that rough timeline, so you can assume that, but its not likely to be true. (this also applies to your other post)
Actually all necessary data can be obtained from logs, can be analyzed and compared. Other data like arena roster can be taken even from swgoh. Keep an eye can mean either that they are still searching for bugs and are ready to fix them or they are really going to buff SEE, the second idea seems phantom. So I absolutely sure that all necessary data is already collected and analyzed, this collected data is enough to see that Palp is much weaker than other 3 GLs. So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deepe than absence of time data etc
I think you underestimate how much data is out there. Part of what they are looking for is where to focus, rather than just blindly start looking at all the data they have access to.
Yes, in the early stages they are likely looking for bugs or issues that are affecting his performance.
they took a while to get GL Kylo in line too, none of whats happening now doesn't fit that rough timeline, so you can assume that, but its not likely to be true. (this also applies to your other post)
Yeh, sure, seems investigation and observation are within scope, just one question not you, more to devs, at early stages it was obvious that See performs worse than other 3 GLs and there were no any announcements that he will be buffed till the moment when people start complaining about a toon whom they invested and who is not used as other 3 GLs to obtain the same amount of resources.
as with any new toon/team the early stages are very much one way or the other, OP/Junk..... and almost all of those same toons/teams were worked out (without any dev intervention) to be inline with the general concept of power creep, with counters and other things available.
so early stages, they want to give time for things to be fleshed out and see if modding, strategy, and team comp can help block counters, or improve performance. they are also looking for bugs and exploits as the cause, which are not always announced until they have more of an idea of what they are looking at.
they times where they have made early announcements about changes coming, it has been because they found a bug/exploits that they were trying to deal with.
again, this all fits the general process/timeline we have seen before, but still this is relatively new territory, so it doesn't always fit exactly what we have seen before.
@Kyno Actually observation and investigation of toons seems in scope of team to be implemented in test environment before they release him for production environment
So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deeper than absence of time data etc
Just speculating... Maybe the House of Mouse wants SEE to underperform to keep things canon?
SEE in his current form is the Eternal Emperor from Episode 9. What happened in that episode? He got destroyed by Rey, with the help of Kylo. So it makes sense that Kylo and Rey are superior to SEE in game.
What about JML? Well, JML should be the weakest GL. In Episode 8, he doesn't do much except make a hologram of himself and then die on a rock from exhaustion.
So maybe SEE should not be buffed, and JML should be nerfed, to keep things canon.
Kyno Actually observation and investigation of toons seems in scope of team to be implemented in test environment before they release him for production environment
correct, but a team of X # of players in a timeframe of Y, testing 2 GLs will never be able to be as thorough as the 1000s that are doing it now. we also dont know what things they did catch that never made it out to the general population, or changes that were made or not made based on their feedback.
So why he still didn’t receive a buff makes me think that reason is hidden far more deeper than absence of time data etc
Just speculating... Maybe the House of Mouse wants SEE to underperform to keep things canon?
SEE in his current form is the Eternal Emperor from Episode 9. What happened in that episode? He got destroyed by Rey, with the help of Kylo. So it makes sense that Kylo and Rey are superior to SEE in game.
What about JML? Well, JML should be the weakest GL. In Episode 8, he doesn't do much except make a hologram of himself and then die on a rock from exhaustion.
So maybe SEE should not be buffed, and JML should be nerfed, to keep things canon.
Just speculating.
Yeh, and we should wait for smb really good, able to beat Rey and Kylo, and not spend resources in vain 😀
By the way, Emperor Palatine has almost killed JKL in Episode 6, luckily Vader saved his son. And what we have in the game good but obsolete toon like Emperor and overbuffed and newly-realized JKL. I don’t even touch upon GaS, Kenobi’ state and the state of Mace Windu
By the way, Emperor Palatine has almost killed JKL in Episode 6, luckily Vader saved his son. And what we have in the game good but obsolete toon like Emperor and overbuffed and newly-realized JKL. I don’t even touch upon GaS, Kenobi’ state and the state of Mace Windu
Or Darth Sid being amazing in ep3... and useless in game.
By the way, Emperor Palatine has almost killed JKL in Episode 6, luckily Vader saved his son. And what we have in the game good but obsolete toon like Emperor and overbuffed and newly-realized JKL. I don’t even touch upon GaS, Kenobi’ state and the state of Mace Windu
Or Darth Sid being amazing in ep3... and useless in game.
Well he feels just about as old and stale as episode 3.
By the way, Emperor Palatine has almost killed JKL in Episode 6, luckily Vader saved his son. And what we have in the game good but obsolete toon like Emperor and overbuffed and newly-realized JKL. I don’t even touch upon GaS, Kenobi’ state and the state of Mace Windu
Or Darth Sid being amazing in ep3... and useless in game.
Well he feels just about as old and stale as episode 3.
correct, but a team of X # of players in a timeframe of Y, testing 2 GLs will never be able to be as thorough as the 1000s that are doing it now. we also dont know what things they did catch that never made it out to the general population, or changes that were made or not made based on their feedback.
But presumably the devs have a test suite, that can simulate a whole battle in very little time. They can then run tens of thousands of tests, of numerous different team combos, providing them with tons of data they can analyse.
I get that they won't be able to try every combination of team against every other combination, but they should be testing the new GLs against eachother. If they see that SEE against double tank Kylo basically has 0% win rate, that should raise some red flags.
correct, but a team of X # of players in a timeframe of Y, testing 2 GLs will never be able to be as thorough as the 1000s that are doing it now. we also dont know what things they did catch that never made it out to the general population, or changes that were made or not made based on their feedback.
If they see that SEE against double tank Kylo basically has 0% win rate, that should raise some red flags.
correct, but a team of X # of players in a timeframe of Y, testing 2 GLs will never be able to be as thorough as the 1000s that are doing it now. we also dont know what things they did catch that never made it out to the general population, or changes that were made or not made based on their feedback.
But presumably the devs have a test suite, that can simulate a whole battle in very little time. They can then run tens of thousands of tests, of numerous different team combos, providing them with tons of data they can analyse.
I get that they won't be able to try every combination of team against every other combination, but they should be testing the new GLs against eachother. If they see that SEE against double tank Kylo basically has 0% win rate, that should raise some red flags.
you can presume that all you want, and even if it is true. They would just be allowing the AI to run battles which as we all know is lacking some "I" when it comes to how to play SWGOH in any meaningful way.
again, without knowing the intent, but hearing and seeing them leading into a R-P-S like arena game play, one GL specifically not being able to beat 1 comp of another GL doesn't even raise an eyebrow. (if that was the only case we are looking at, i'm not saying anything other than that)
Here is a video that shows how frustrating it is to fight kylo. Not sure what it proves other than relative power. I wonder if that link didn’t have to go on the bug to start the match could have made a difference.
Hmmm ur on the back foot since turn 1...
Might wanna check on ur speed for Thrawn. If can pass TM to nihlus would be good to slow the opposite team down.
I'm not a sith user but Thrawn should go faster then bastilla
Actually we should post solutions here on how to improve SEE. What we wanna see etc.
I don't have SEE. But if he can buff up the Sith requirements it would be good.
- add equal speed to DS toons (Not sure why need to be just sith)
- Buff damage up (at least 50%) and crit immunity to all sith, but drain their max health (10% per turn)
- For all the health drained, add that into SEE's damage.
- Passive for getting his ulti faster.
There is a lot of mechanics left out for SEE. There is fear / shock / stun / daze / offense and defense down etc. How come the mighty sith is not using all these but GML is? So werid... Is like GML is a sith...
Actually we should post solutions here on how to improve SEE. What we wanna see etc.
I don't have SEE. But if he can buff up the Sith requirements it would be good.
- add equal speed to DS toons (Not sure why need to be just sith)
- Buff damage up (at least 50%) and crit immunity to all sith, but drain their max health (10% per turn)
- For all the health drained, add that into SEE's damage.
- Passive for getting his ulti faster.
There is a lot of mechanics left out for SEE. There is fear / shock / stun / daze / offense and defense down etc. How come the mighty sith is not using all these but GML is? So werid... Is like GML is a sith...
Just fought 4 different JML teams with my SEE team. The tank was hitting all my sith for 40-60k basic crits, and aoe crit everyone for 100k.
My GLORIOUS DEVASTATING AMAZING ATTACKER... was throwing farts for 40-50k... THEN AFTER ULT..zapping them, while deceived, for 70k... (hitting non jedi for half as much)
Not to mention all the jedi get amazing buffs, defenses and utility with JML... while sith get absolutely nothing under SEE.
Not to mention rey is a 60/40 loss to win ratio depending on how badly rng goes against you.
Nothing like seeing those LS attackers hit 40k non crits while you tickle rey for 20k crits...
Add a 50% Damage modifier to all abilities, remove the Light Side restrictions on Sow Discord and Revitalized Shock, give him a Bonus Turn after the Ult, let Sion revive. That would fix most of the problems.
Other things on my wishlist: unresistable Shocks, some Ult Charge gain on characters taking turns while Feared/Stunned (perhaps just adding 1% when they take a turn in addition to 2% when they use an ability), equivalent Health Regen on Sow Discord/So Be It Jedi, let So Be It Jedi be used after Ult, some alternate affect of Unraveled Destiny / Link against a solo character, some debuffs on his normal abilities (Speed Down on basic, maybe a cooldown increase on Link, something).
Add a 50% Damage modifier to all abilities, remove the Light Side restrictions on Sow Discord and Revitalized Shock, give him a Bonus Turn after the Ult, let Sion revive. That would fix most of the problems.
Other things on my wishlist: unresistable Shocks, some Ult Charge gain on characters taking turns while Feared/Stunned (perhaps just adding 1% when they take a turn in addition to 2% when they use an ability), equivalent Health Regen on Sow Discord/So Be It Jedi, let So Be It Jedi be used after Ult, some alternate affect of Unraveled Destiny / Link against a solo character, some debuffs on his normal abilities (Speed Down on basic, maybe a cooldown increase on Link, something).
Basicly all this would go along way and has been suggested multiple times in multiple posts by multiple different people. Its shocking how many players come to the same consensus on the downfalls of his kit.
Another way to fix his damage is to have his ult give all sith allys attacks 50% defense penetration, doubled against jedi.
This would make his entire team better and all of them wouldn't hit like paper.
OR something unique and VERY VERY sith like, playing on old sid passive, Give all Sith allies %offense equal to their total potency.
This would fix sid and maul to be usable with him since they stack potency like no ones business and give all the others a nice little bump. If LS attackers can hit 40k non crits then why can't our DS attackers get a nice little buff.
Guess I'm not helping the case that he's not powerful or can't hold on defense ...
I climb my arena daily with seep vs all the jml and Rey's in my path, swap to my slkr to beat any slkr. Will leave seep on defense and dont drop any further than if I have slkr in there, and drop further with Rey than Seep.
He needs some work, especially vs solo GL, but if he gets his ultimate off I have not lost 1v1 vs rey , and full auto any JML squad I've seen
3v3 isn't balanced and the worst of the GAC. No one likes it.
And it sounds like the rey's on your shard are just bad. Multiple of my shard mates have told me they can take ANY rey team against any version of SEE and win with 4 to 5 standing. Just save rey's ult and spam WW.
3v3 isn't balanced and the worst of the GAC. No one likes it.
And it sounds like the rey's on your shard are just bad. Multiple of my shard mates have told me they can take ANY rey team against any version of SEE and win with 4 to 5 standing. Just save rey's ult and spam WW.
I like 3v3.
Also this is the 2nd time I've seen recently where someone has provided evidence GLEE isn't as bad as ppl here have been going on about and the immediate reaction is that it's invalid and the user doesn't know what they're doing and/or their shard is incompetent (with no evidence to back that up, either).
3v3 isn't balanced and the worst of the GAC. No one likes it.
And it sounds like the rey's on your shard are just bad. Multiple of my shard mates have told me they can take ANY rey team against any version of SEE and win with 4 to 5 standing. Just save rey's ult and spam WW.
I'm sure they would take offense to that. A Rey comp I would frequently time out with Rey vs Rey I now beat in 3 minutes with Seep. Not saying Rey won't beat me on defense
Add a 50% Damage modifier to all abilities, remove the Light Side restrictions on Sow Discord and Revitalized Shock, give him a Bonus Turn after the Ult, let Sion revive. That would fix most of the problems.
Other things on my wishlist: unresistable Shocks, some Ult Charge gain on characters taking turns while Feared/Stunned (perhaps just adding 1% when they take a turn in addition to 2% when they use an ability), equivalent Health Regen on Sow Discord/So Be It Jedi, let So Be It Jedi be used after Ult, some alternate affect of Unraveled Destiny / Link against a solo character, some debuffs on his normal abilities (Speed Down on basic, maybe a cooldown increase on Link, something).
Basicly all this would go along way and has been suggested multiple times in multiple posts by multiple different people. Its shocking how many players come to the same consensus on the downfalls of his kit.
... because this thread is so long I / we keep forgetting what we’ve already talked about - and so we talk about it again.
One thing mentioned earlier was SEE's post ultimate damage (kinda the only thing he does other than prot drain), and I think I talked somewhere about how SEE vs bast/JML/wat provides an opportunity to see SEE's damage potential in the most favorable circumstances--JML doesn't drop linked like other tanks, plus he's Jedi.
This is where he should shine, right? It's basically the only thing he's "good" at, since his kit is all about letting his squad die while he increases mastery and hopefully can pull together an ultimate before he dies.
It also gives an opportunity to compare damage. This is SLKR's damage:
SEE's damage, if he crits, at this point in the battle is about 1/3rd of this. And, again, that's against an enemy that 1) actually let him get to ultimate on offense, and 2) is a Jedi with all the (arguably too high and specific) bonuses SEE gets against them.
BTW, here is ultimate SEE's damage at the end of the battle. Forgot to attach. Again: deceived, Jedi, everything that makes SEE shine when his damage is so much less everywhere else (inferior damage multiplier, inferior mastery, lower base armor penetration, etc). SEE's damage is still 1/3rd of SLKR's halfway through the battle, and 1/2 of that same SLKR damage at the end.
SEE has to be a potato and pray for ultimate just so he can achieve the wonderful damage gains of needing like 10 minutes of attacking to match SLKR's damage against an enemy SLKR can't even stun 2 minutes in.
This should support @Shiryu's observations of his SEE testing.
And btw @thedrjojo isn't wrong but this doesn't contradict the commentary about SEE being very weak and niche for a GL. Someone with 3-4 GLs finding a use for SEE in 3v3 GA is... pretty niche and not necessarily that great (I'm sure we've all seen all sorts of modest stuff get holds in GA). Anyone can look at the almighty Ahnald's plays against SEE in 3v3 GA and see him throw all sorts of total trash teams at SEE like Captain Phasma.
I have experience on my alt account of winning GA rounds against superior roster players with better meta teams and it's doable, but I'd hardly say that, for example, GG is as strong as SE. That's why DR is a legendary and Malak is a confrontation whatever. And yet I can totally beat an good SE squad with an undergeared GG--something SEE struggles with vs other GLs in general (yes, including SLKR).
SEE should steal stats from defeated allies, that would make sense for his kit even lore wise since he is all the sith.
Doesn't have to be close to all stats like fives but a significant amount so that when he goes into ult, him taking any turns should be scary for the opposition
Replies
I think you underestimate how much data is out there. Part of what they are looking for is where to focus, rather than just blindly start looking at all the data they have access to.
Yes, in the early stages they are likely looking for bugs or issues that are affecting his performance.
they took a while to get GL Kylo in line too, none of whats happening now doesn't fit that rough timeline, so you can assume that, but its not likely to be true. (this also applies to your other post)
as with any new toon/team the early stages are very much one way or the other, OP/Junk..... and almost all of those same toons/teams were worked out (without any dev intervention) to be inline with the general concept of power creep, with counters and other things available.
so early stages, they want to give time for things to be fleshed out and see if modding, strategy, and team comp can help block counters, or improve performance. they are also looking for bugs and exploits as the cause, which are not always announced until they have more of an idea of what they are looking at.
they times where they have made early announcements about changes coming, it has been because they found a bug/exploits that they were trying to deal with.
again, this all fits the general process/timeline we have seen before, but still this is relatively new territory, so it doesn't always fit exactly what we have seen before.
Just speculating... Maybe the House of Mouse wants SEE to underperform to keep things canon?
SEE in his current form is the Eternal Emperor from Episode 9. What happened in that episode? He got destroyed by Rey, with the help of Kylo. So it makes sense that Kylo and Rey are superior to SEE in game.
What about JML? Well, JML should be the weakest GL. In Episode 8, he doesn't do much except make a hologram of himself and then die on a rock from exhaustion.
So maybe SEE should not be buffed, and JML should be nerfed, to keep things canon.
Just speculating.
correct, but a team of X # of players in a timeframe of Y, testing 2 GLs will never be able to be as thorough as the 1000s that are doing it now. we also dont know what things they did catch that never made it out to the general population, or changes that were made or not made based on their feedback.
Yeh, and we should wait for smb really good, able to beat Rey and Kylo, and not spend resources in vain 😀
Or Darth Sid being amazing in ep3... and useless in game.
Well he feels just about as old and stale as episode 3.
https://giphy.com/gifs/starwars-star-wars-the-phantom-menace-3owzWfuEMmNX4rquJ2
But presumably the devs have a test suite, that can simulate a whole battle in very little time. They can then run tens of thousands of tests, of numerous different team combos, providing them with tons of data they can analyse.
I get that they won't be able to try every combination of team against every other combination, but they should be testing the new GLs against eachother. If they see that SEE against double tank Kylo basically has 0% win rate, that should raise some red flags.
you can presume that all you want, and even if it is true. They would just be allowing the AI to run battles which as we all know is lacking some "I" when it comes to how to play SWGOH in any meaningful way.
again, without knowing the intent, but hearing and seeing them leading into a R-P-S like arena game play, one GL specifically not being able to beat 1 comp of another GL doesn't even raise an eyebrow. (if that was the only case we are looking at, i'm not saying anything other than that)
Hmmm ur on the back foot since turn 1...
Might wanna check on ur speed for Thrawn. If can pass TM to nihlus would be good to slow the opposite team down.
I'm not a sith user but Thrawn should go faster then bastilla
Just my 2 cents, don't stone me!!
I don't have SEE. But if he can buff up the Sith requirements it would be good.
- add equal speed to DS toons (Not sure why need to be just sith)
- Buff damage up (at least 50%) and crit immunity to all sith, but drain their max health (10% per turn)
- For all the health drained, add that into SEE's damage.
- Passive for getting his ulti faster.
There is a lot of mechanics left out for SEE. There is fear / shock / stun / daze / offense and defense down etc. How come the mighty sith is not using all these but GML is? So werid... Is like GML is a sith...
Just fought 4 different JML teams with my SEE team. The tank was hitting all my sith for 40-60k basic crits, and aoe crit everyone for 100k.
My GLORIOUS DEVASTATING AMAZING ATTACKER... was throwing farts for 40-50k... THEN AFTER ULT..zapping them, while deceived, for 70k... (hitting non jedi for half as much)
Not to mention all the jedi get amazing buffs, defenses and utility with JML... while sith get absolutely nothing under SEE.
Not to mention rey is a 60/40 loss to win ratio depending on how badly rng goes against you.
Nothing like seeing those LS attackers hit 40k non crits while you tickle rey for 20k crits...
Other things on my wishlist: unresistable Shocks, some Ult Charge gain on characters taking turns while Feared/Stunned (perhaps just adding 1% when they take a turn in addition to 2% when they use an ability), equivalent Health Regen on Sow Discord/So Be It Jedi, let So Be It Jedi be used after Ult, some alternate affect of Unraveled Destiny / Link against a solo character, some debuffs on his normal abilities (Speed Down on basic, maybe a cooldown increase on Link, something).
Basicly all this would go along way and has been suggested multiple times in multiple posts by multiple different people. Its shocking how many players come to the same consensus on the downfalls of his kit.
Another way to fix his damage is to have his ult give all sith allys attacks 50% defense penetration, doubled against jedi.
This would make his entire team better and all of them wouldn't hit like paper.
OR something unique and VERY VERY sith like, playing on old sid passive, Give all Sith allies %offense equal to their total potency.
This would fix sid and maul to be usable with him since they stack potency like no ones business and give all the others a nice little bump. If LS attackers can hit 40k non crits then why can't our DS attackers get a nice little buff.
Guess I'm not helping the case that he's not powerful or can't hold on defense ...
I climb my arena daily with seep vs all the jml and Rey's in my path, swap to my slkr to beat any slkr. Will leave seep on defense and dont drop any further than if I have slkr in there, and drop further with Rey than Seep.
He needs some work, especially vs solo GL, but if he gets his ultimate off I have not lost 1v1 vs rey , and full auto any JML squad I've seen
And it sounds like the rey's on your shard are just bad. Multiple of my shard mates have told me they can take ANY rey team against any version of SEE and win with 4 to 5 standing. Just save rey's ult and spam WW.
We dont know yet what your opponent used vs your SEE. Can you check your GAC history on swhoh.gg later this week and report back?
I like 3v3.
Also this is the 2nd time I've seen recently where someone has provided evidence GLEE isn't as bad as ppl here have been going on about and the immediate reaction is that it's invalid and the user doesn't know what they're doing and/or their shard is incompetent (with no evidence to back that up, either).
I'm sure they would take offense to that. A Rey comp I would frequently time out with Rey vs Rey I now beat in 3 minutes with Seep. Not saying Rey won't beat me on defense
... because this thread is so long I / we keep forgetting what we’ve already talked about - and so we talk about it again.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
BTW, here is ultimate SEE's damage at the end of the battle. Forgot to attach. Again: deceived, Jedi, everything that makes SEE shine when his damage is so much less everywhere else (inferior damage multiplier, inferior mastery, lower base armor penetration, etc). SEE's damage is still 1/3rd of SLKR's halfway through the battle, and 1/2 of that same SLKR damage at the end.
SEE has to be a potato and pray for ultimate just so he can achieve the wonderful damage gains of needing like 10 minutes of attacking to match SLKR's damage against an enemy SLKR can't even stun 2 minutes in.
This should support @Shiryu's observations of his SEE testing.
And btw @thedrjojo isn't wrong but this doesn't contradict the commentary about SEE being very weak and niche for a GL. Someone with 3-4 GLs finding a use for SEE in 3v3 GA is... pretty niche and not necessarily that great (I'm sure we've all seen all sorts of modest stuff get holds in GA). Anyone can look at the almighty Ahnald's plays against SEE in 3v3 GA and see him throw all sorts of total trash teams at SEE like Captain Phasma.
I have experience on my alt account of winning GA rounds against superior roster players with better meta teams and it's doable, but I'd hardly say that, for example, GG is as strong as SE. That's why DR is a legendary and Malak is a confrontation whatever. And yet I can totally beat an good SE squad with an undergeared GG--something SEE struggles with vs other GLs in general (yes, including SLKR).
Doesn't have to be close to all stats like fives but a significant amount so that when he goes into ult, him taking any turns should be scary for the opposition