thedrjojo it's hard to tell how much of your success though is specifically just vs JML and his vulnerabilities (not to mention how much of it is Sith Empire, which handles Jedi okay but have various points of anti-synergy with SEE).
I agree Rey is underappreciated. For example, ultimate SEE can destroy Rey, but ultimate Rey can also 1-shot SEE. But I think--I don't know for sure, since few are crazy enough to do it--that if you stick Rey with her requirements she'll perform far better than SEE with his Sith requirements. Just as an attempt to see how strong the GL itself is, against a non-Jedi GL like Rey or especially SLKR.
dgree can you show us a Rey 1 shot SEE. This came up a few times after the protection change, but no one has show this happening.
SEE can survive one ultimate against Rey at the end, if he has close to full protection. After that, if you can't kill Rey, the next Ultimate will kill him.
and in all honesty, that sounds like "the correct" situation. it doesn't sound crazy for anyone to not survive 2 ultimates, without something in-between...regen or the like. Generally speaking.
and as I said in my other post, then the verbiage to describe that situation should probably not be "1-shot", but no reason to harp on semantics. sorry.
I agree, but that is the problem, he doesn't do enough damage to prevent multiple ultimate's against him. Once SEE is in Ultimate stance it's a race for him to win very fast or he will lose because of lack of damage, protection gain, and last one standing on his team. It makes Unlimited Power almost worthless after the first use.
the SE team... what were their relic levels at as I dont see the losing to a solo SEE.
DR - r7
Bsf - r7
Malak - r7
Looks like they used vader, wat, and thrawn first and probably preloaded SEE. Using vader vs. SEE in 3v3 seems dumb, cant get that culling blade off quick enough.
the SE team... what were their relic levels at as I dont see the losing to a solo SEE.
DR - r7
Bsf - r7
Malak - r7
Looks like they used vader, wat, and thrawn first and probably preloaded SEE. Using vader vs. SEE in 3v3 seems dumb, cant get that culling blade off quick enough.
Actually there are videos of Vader, Wat and shoretrooper beating SEE in 3v3 consistently, so its not that dumb. Shores pretaunt seems to help keeping linked from Vader though, so I suppose ot doesnt work with Thrawn.
No one in my shard is using SEE anymore except me. At least 6 of the whales in the top 20 have him, but don't use him anymore.
Let's take a look at the .gg statistics this week:
Rank 1 leaders:
Ouch. Seems SEE rank 1 leadership has fallen since we last checked.
Top 10 leaders:
SEE has only gained a few top 10 leaders since we last checked, while JML has gained a significant more. (But muh SEE being an easier unlock!)
Most disturbingly, let's look at the top 100 ranked squads:
SEE doesn't even show up... At all.
CG, what are your internals showing? Do we still feel SEE is performing well?
Well, there are only 2k SEE's in the game, and at least a quarter of them are missing all six zetas, let alone the ultimate
So it makes sense there is far less SEE in the wild in arena right now, compared to 4.7k JMLS
I'm one of the few that actually leave him in past payout hour (the time the database parses the info) only because i refuse to pay 50 crystals to refresh to change teams. If I have a spare battle you better believe I'm changing him out 100 % of the time.
the SE team... what were their relic levels at as I dont see the losing to a solo SEE.
G12 DR/Malak, R5 BSF. He left his Rey on defense.
It's interesting to know about, but also we need to remember that 3s is very tricky because squads that could work really well with 4-5 toons against GLs won't work in 3v3 vs Rey, Kylo, or probably (I assume) SEE. And a lot of people have a lot less practice with it. It's weird. I don't really see any enemy non-GLs soloing SEE, which means that 2/3 of the toons attacking SEE are linked.
SEE is surely more than legendary power. He has the GL ability, preventing that Rex squad from being able to execute him. Linked on non-GL enemies in 3v3 has a good chance of seriously dampening outgoing damage from the enemy's main attacker. And if he's allowed to get to his ultimate, which is more likely in these scenarios.
The issue is that SEE's strength isn't that much higher than a good legendary. That Linked damage reduction doesn't work at all against enemy GLs. He has almost total weakness all around his kit vs the other attacker GLs, while they have a host of strengths that can be used against him (invulnerability, crit immunity, Rey heals, etc). And SLKR, as often noted, basically has substantially more damage early in the battle than SEE gets after ultimate).And they can solo him.
the SE team... what were their relic levels at as I dont see the losing to a solo SEE.
G12 DR/Malak, R5 rest. He left his Rey on defense.
It's interesting to know about, but also we need to remember that 3s is very tricky because squads that could work really well with 4-5 toons against GLs won't work in 3v3 vs Rey, Kylo, or probably (I assume) SEE. And a lot of people have a lot less practice with it. It's weird. I don't really see any enemy non-GLs soloing SEE, which means that 2/3 of the toons attacking SEE are linked.
SEE is surely more than legendary power. He has the GL ability, preventing that Rex squad from being able to execute him. Linked on non-GL enemies in 3v3 has a good chance of seriously dampening outgoing damage from the enemy's main attacker. And if he's allowed to get to his ultimate, which is more likely in these scenarios.
The issue is that SEE's strength isn't that much higher than a good legendary. That Linked damage reduction doesn't work at all against enemy GLs. He has almost total weakness all around his kit vs the other attacker GLs, while they have a host of strengths that can be used against him (invulnerability, crit immunity, Rey heals, etc). And SLKR, as often noted, basically has substantially more damage early in the battle than SEE gets after ultimate).And they can solo him.
Vader L, shore, wat kills SEE in 3s. SEE links shore and will never link vader. for some reason SEE seems to be hard coded to hit rey, wat, c3p0, gas over anyone else. There might be another character or two but in my 100 battles he will generally target these characters. (this is him on defense)
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
meant offense cross. But the jist is I've tried literally everything and every type of modding.
He just doesn't do damage. Or if you eek out a small amount more he's so slow he might as well be sitting in his own grave
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Thats happened to me before. Sometimes everything lines up to where you just get skipped over. While some day you drop to 30
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
meant offense cross. But the jist is I've tried literally everything and every type of modding.
He just doesn't do damage. Or if you eek out a small amount more he's so slow he might as well be sitting in his own grave
I have the recommended health/speed sets on mine with all offence/crit primaries (where available ) and very good offensive secondaries but he still hits like a wet paper bag.
He hits kinda hard on some weaker Jedi but it seems like for some reason if the enemy has any protection at all, then SEE does zilch. I'm seeing average numbers for the basic ability doing about 15k to 20k damage to most enemies pre-ultimate. 3 year old heros seem to hit harder.
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
meant offense cross. But the jist is I've tried literally everything and every type of modding.
He just doesn't do damage. Or if you eek out a small amount more he's so slow he might as well be sitting in his own grave
I have the recommended health/speed sets on mine with all offence/crit primaries (where available ) and very good offensive secondaries but he still hits like a wet paper bag.
He hits kinda hard on some weaker Jedi but it seems like for some reason if the enemy has any protection at all, then SEE does zilch. I'm seeing average numbers for the basic ability doing about 15k to 20k damage to most enemies pre-ultimate. 3 year old heros seem to hit harder.
Yep. Im finding out the same. I run speed arrow, CD triangle, offense cross. my secondaries has some of the highest speed I can get that also has decent offense on them. A page or two back has his stats.
I throughly enjoy seeing him crit a Jedi target for a whopping 30 to 40k!... If the target isn't a jedi im lucky if I see him hit 20 to 25k
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
meant offense cross. But the jist is I've tried literally everything and every type of modding.
He just doesn't do damage. Or if you eek out a small amount more he's so slow he might as well be sitting in his own grave
I have the recommended health/speed sets on mine with all offence/crit primaries (where available ) and very good offensive secondaries but he still hits like a wet paper bag.
He hits kinda hard on some weaker Jedi but it seems like for some reason if the enemy has any protection at all, then SEE does zilch. I'm seeing average numbers for the basic ability doing about 15k to 20k damage to most enemies pre-ultimate. 3 year old heros seem to hit harder.
Yep. Im finding out the same. I run speed arrow, CD triangle, offense cross. my secondaries has some of the highest speed I can get that also has decent offense on them. A page or two back has his stats.
I throughly enjoy seeing him crit a Jedi target for a whopping 30 to 40k!... If the target isn't a jedi im lucky if I see him hit 20 to 25k
My Hk47 or sith marauder special under DR can sometimes crit nearly 200k damage in arena (over 300k in pve) and marauder's special is only on a 3 turn cooldown.
My r7 Grievous can hit easily 100-130k damage on every hit.
My GAS rarely hits under 50k.
But GL palp the "devastating attacker" throws wet fart for damage 15-20k LOL.
btw, my internet was funky and i didn't load all the comments, so I noticed there was some confusion about the SE trio failing vs solo SEE. I mentioned up here that the SE squad was g12 with a r5 BSF. But some people are saying that it was a higher relic squad.
@thedrjojo@LordDunbar@MolBettaBlu I believe this is the attacker's profile: https://swgoh.gg/p/661522355/. You can see his GA history as well. I don't know how SEE would've fared if SE actually had decent relics, but it seems like this guy left his strongest toons on defense against someone with 3 GLs, and his attacks indicate that he doesn't really know how to battle SEE (solo Vader probably has a decent chance vs solo SEE, since the dots will heal Vader for more than SEE's damage, and will keep stacking up for a culling blade).
TLDR: 3v3 is weird and GA/TW holds generally don't tell us that much (I think we've all seen modest Geo squads with like 8 holds purely due to people underestimating them).
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
You have Rey and enjoy having her as the 2nd best GL, before you were mad that SLKR was vastly superior but now that there are 2 GLs worse that yours you don't want them brought up to a similar level as Rey. Come back with some actual game play regarding SEE and we can have a discussion but your comments on how to mod SEE towards 100% offense and that being the difference is way off base. SEE for a devastating attacker has damage lower than Rey and SLKR thats bad based on the fact those 2 have better survivability. But then you have JML doing more damage than SEE. People have tried offense mods and speed mods. The results are basics doing up to 1/2 of the damage Rey is hitting for, less than Gas, less than Sith Maurader, etc etc.
@Blake085 No See in top 10, though we have 2. SLKR, Rey, A few Jml only. Maybe the issue is that SLKR hits at least 70k into JmL (direct counter) while See hits 30k into SLKR with their basics
@Blake085 No See in top 10, though we have 2. SLKR, Rey, A few Jml only. Maybe the issue is that SLKR hits at least 70k into JmL (direct counter) while See hits 30k into SLKR with their basics
You mean after Ultimate? My SEE hits for 90-100k with his basic after Ultimate. I could do more but would have to use other mods. The damage from Deceived before Ultimate is pretty low and the mass assist is almost useless as an attack ability.
@Blake085 No See in top 10, though we have 2. SLKR, Rey, A few Jml only. Maybe the issue is that SLKR hits at least 70k into JmL (direct counter) while See hits 30k into SLKR with their basics
You mean after Ultimate? My SEE hits for 90-100k with his basic after Ultimate. I could do more but would have to use other mods. The damage from Deceived before Ultimate is pretty low and the mass assist is almost useless as an attack ability.
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
It's not about people disregarding your proof, but about your points lacking support. DR scales amazingly with offense and giving him offense is great. It's just that him having speed helps him with crucial control. As people have explained countless times in this thread, SEE scales very very poorly with offense. Giving him offense is not great. It's not obvious why speed is so bad. You have no proof.
As for JML, it's not so relevant. Yes, it's clear sometimes that the JML squads struggling the most vs SEE are not thinking much about their modding and squad comp. But that's somewhat irrelevant. I think JML could use a bit of a boost, and that SEE has lopsided application vs JML. But no one's saying that SEE is dropping against JML as opposed to others, especially the often most common and overall strongest GL, SLKR. The point is that SEE needs a serious update to be the things CG said he's supposed to be.
Ok, I misunderstood. I am one of the SEE owners who have no problem with SEE not/rarely beating SLKR.
I just say SEE is flawed and that they put so much thought into the concept of the character that they forgot to make him a good GL. Today I ran into one of those JML Jericho bomb squads. It’s not funny to watch JML killing 3-4 characters with one AoE.
There's one argument worth looking at in general: "
the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
"
Well... why not? Aside from the prot drain shtick, the whole idea is that SEE does damage, right? And he doesn't really do damage until his ultimate, or any of these other things that SLKR does (simply SLKR's initial attack is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, which is why JML soaking it and not getting permastunned helps Jedi so much). Toons like Thrawn and Malak even work better with SLKR than SEE. So why shouldn't he be a little stronger in general, and as an attacker at least "on par" with SLKR after his ultimate?
If not, what should SEE's damage be? Currently, even in SEE's niche scenarios against Jedi and around 2 minutes into the battle, ultimate SEE only does 1/3rd of SLKR's damage. Against non-Jedi enemies the damage is far, far less due to SEE's decrepit damage multiplier, lesser mastery, mediocre leadership, and lower base stats like defense penetration. So what should SEE's damage be, when this strength is supposed to compensate for his weaknesses? 1/2 of SLKR's damage? 1/5th? 10%?
If SEE was anywhere near something that seemed reasonable, I know that the vast majority of the people who invested so heavily and early in SEE would say something like, "You know, SEE isn't as good as SLKR in every area, but at least I have a Sith GL who really contributes to my roster and that I can use on offense in arena, even if it's not as easy as using JML or SLKR." But we're nowhere near that and SEE has been an immense disappointment who is pretty far from the Dev Insights, falls quite short of GL expectations, is probably the weakest new meta toon I've ever seen released, and we're stuck with great Sith players using good mods and strong Sith rosters to try to come up with, frankly, absurd ways of using SEE to battle in arena. A reliable way of beating Rey involves high relic Bossk and GBA. A potential but hardly reliable way of beating SLKR requires EP lead despite Hux/SLKR blocking TM gain, Vader doing pretty much all the work, and SEE just sitting there along for the ride. So a couple gimmicks vs JML are arguably even a little too strong, and tend to distract from everything else that's lacking.
TLDR: SEE's role is generally that of a diamond-encrusted platinum hood ornament on a rusty 1996 Toyota Camry. People who were on top of the brand-new Sith GL should be proud to have him and overjoyed to use him, not depressed, using the same old Sith counter squads on offense, and talking about quitting.
Replies
I agree, but that is the problem, he doesn't do enough damage to prevent multiple ultimate's against him. Once SEE is in Ultimate stance it's a race for him to win very fast or he will lose because of lack of damage, protection gain, and last one standing on his team. It makes Unlimited Power almost worthless after the first use.
DR - r7
Bsf - r7
Malak - r7
Looks like they used vader, wat, and thrawn first and probably preloaded SEE. Using vader vs. SEE in 3v3 seems dumb, cant get that culling blade off quick enough.
Actually there are videos of Vader, Wat and shoretrooper beating SEE in 3v3 consistently, so its not that dumb. Shores pretaunt seems to help keeping linked from Vader though, so I suppose ot doesnt work with Thrawn.
Let's take a look at the .gg statistics this week:
Rank 1 leaders:
Ouch. Seems SEE rank 1 leadership has fallen since we last checked.
Top 10 leaders:
SEE has only gained a few top 10 leaders since we last checked, while JML has gained a significant more. (But muh SEE being an easier unlock!)
Most disturbingly, let's look at the top 100 ranked squads:
SEE doesn't even show up... At all.
CG, what are your internals showing? Do we still feel SEE is performing well?
So it makes sense there is far less SEE in the wild in arena right now, compared to 4.7k JMLS
I'm one of the few that actually leave him in past payout hour (the time the database parses the info) only because i refuse to pay 50 crystals to refresh to change teams. If I have a spare battle you better believe I'm changing him out 100 % of the time.
It's interesting to know about, but also we need to remember that 3s is very tricky because squads that could work really well with 4-5 toons against GLs won't work in 3v3 vs Rey, Kylo, or probably (I assume) SEE. And a lot of people have a lot less practice with it. It's weird. I don't really see any enemy non-GLs soloing SEE, which means that 2/3 of the toons attacking SEE are linked.
SEE is surely more than legendary power. He has the GL ability, preventing that Rex squad from being able to execute him. Linked on non-GL enemies in 3v3 has a good chance of seriously dampening outgoing damage from the enemy's main attacker. And if he's allowed to get to his ultimate, which is more likely in these scenarios.
The issue is that SEE's strength isn't that much higher than a good legendary. That Linked damage reduction doesn't work at all against enemy GLs. He has almost total weakness all around his kit vs the other attacker GLs, while they have a host of strengths that can be used against him (invulnerability, crit immunity, Rey heals, etc). And SLKR, as often noted, basically has substantially more damage early in the battle than SEE gets after ultimate).And they can solo him.
Vader L, shore, wat kills SEE in 3s. SEE links shore and will never link vader. for some reason SEE seems to be hard coded to hit rey, wat, c3p0, gas over anyone else. There might be another character or two but in my 100 battles he will generally target these characters. (this is him on defense)
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
meant offense cross. But the jist is I've tried literally everything and every type of modding.
He just doesn't do damage. Or if you eek out a small amount more he's so slow he might as well be sitting in his own grave
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Thats happened to me before. Sometimes everything lines up to where you just get skipped over. While some day you drop to 30
I have the recommended health/speed sets on mine with all offence/crit primaries (where available ) and very good offensive secondaries but he still hits like a wet paper bag.
He hits kinda hard on some weaker Jedi but it seems like for some reason if the enemy has any protection at all, then SEE does zilch. I'm seeing average numbers for the basic ability doing about 15k to 20k damage to most enemies pre-ultimate. 3 year old heros seem to hit harder.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Yep. Im finding out the same. I run speed arrow, CD triangle, offense cross. my secondaries has some of the highest speed I can get that also has decent offense on them. A page or two back has his stats.
I throughly enjoy seeing him crit a Jedi target for a whopping 30 to 40k!... If the target isn't a jedi im lucky if I see him hit 20 to 25k
My Hk47 or sith marauder special under DR can sometimes crit nearly 200k damage in arena (over 300k in pve) and marauder's special is only on a 3 turn cooldown.
My r7 Grievous can hit easily 100-130k damage on every hit.
My GAS rarely hits under 50k.
But GL palp the "devastating attacker" throws wet fart for damage 15-20k LOL.
@thedrjojo @LordDunbar @MolBettaBlu I believe this is the attacker's profile: https://swgoh.gg/p/661522355/. You can see his GA history as well. I don't know how SEE would've fared if SE actually had decent relics, but it seems like this guy left his strongest toons on defense against someone with 3 GLs, and his attacks indicate that he doesn't really know how to battle SEE (solo Vader probably has a decent chance vs solo SEE, since the dots will heal Vader for more than SEE's damage, and will keep stacking up for a culling blade).
TLDR: 3v3 is weird and GA/TW holds generally don't tell us that much (I think we've all seen modest Geo squads with like 8 holds purely due to people underestimating them).
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
You have Rey and enjoy having her as the 2nd best GL, before you were mad that SLKR was vastly superior but now that there are 2 GLs worse that yours you don't want them brought up to a similar level as Rey. Come back with some actual game play regarding SEE and we can have a discussion but your comments on how to mod SEE towards 100% offense and that being the difference is way off base. SEE for a devastating attacker has damage lower than Rey and SLKR thats bad based on the fact those 2 have better survivability. But then you have JML doing more damage than SEE. People have tried offense mods and speed mods. The results are basics doing up to 1/2 of the damage Rey is hitting for, less than Gas, less than Sith Maurader, etc etc.
You mean after Ultimate? My SEE hits for 90-100k with his basic after Ultimate. I could do more but would have to use other mods. The damage from Deceived before Ultimate is pretty low and the mass assist is almost useless as an attack ability.
It's not about people disregarding your proof, but about your points lacking support. DR scales amazingly with offense and giving him offense is great. It's just that him having speed helps him with crucial control. As people have explained countless times in this thread, SEE scales very very poorly with offense. Giving him offense is not great. It's not obvious why speed is so bad. You have no proof.
As for JML, it's not so relevant. Yes, it's clear sometimes that the JML squads struggling the most vs SEE are not thinking much about their modding and squad comp. But that's somewhat irrelevant. I think JML could use a bit of a boost, and that SEE has lopsided application vs JML. But no one's saying that SEE is dropping against JML as opposed to others, especially the often most common and overall strongest GL, SLKR. The point is that SEE needs a serious update to be the things CG said he's supposed to be.
Ok, I misunderstood. I am one of the SEE owners who have no problem with SEE not/rarely beating SLKR.
I just say SEE is flawed and that they put so much thought into the concept of the character that they forgot to make him a good GL. Today I ran into one of those JML Jericho bomb squads. It’s not funny to watch JML killing 3-4 characters with one AoE.
Well... why not? Aside from the prot drain shtick, the whole idea is that SEE does damage, right? And he doesn't really do damage until his ultimate, or any of these other things that SLKR does (simply SLKR's initial attack is one of the most powerful abilities in the game, which is why JML soaking it and not getting permastunned helps Jedi so much). Toons like Thrawn and Malak even work better with SLKR than SEE. So why shouldn't he be a little stronger in general, and as an attacker at least "on par" with SLKR after his ultimate?
If not, what should SEE's damage be? Currently, even in SEE's niche scenarios against Jedi and around 2 minutes into the battle, ultimate SEE only does 1/3rd of SLKR's damage. Against non-Jedi enemies the damage is far, far less due to SEE's decrepit damage multiplier, lesser mastery, mediocre leadership, and lower base stats like defense penetration. So what should SEE's damage be, when this strength is supposed to compensate for his weaknesses? 1/2 of SLKR's damage? 1/5th? 10%?
If SEE was anywhere near something that seemed reasonable, I know that the vast majority of the people who invested so heavily and early in SEE would say something like, "You know, SEE isn't as good as SLKR in every area, but at least I have a Sith GL who really contributes to my roster and that I can use on offense in arena, even if it's not as easy as using JML or SLKR." But we're nowhere near that and SEE has been an immense disappointment who is pretty far from the Dev Insights, falls quite short of GL expectations, is probably the weakest new meta toon I've ever seen released, and we're stuck with great Sith players using good mods and strong Sith rosters to try to come up with, frankly, absurd ways of using SEE to battle in arena. A reliable way of beating Rey involves high relic Bossk and GBA. A potential but hardly reliable way of beating SLKR requires EP lead despite Hux/SLKR blocking TM gain, Vader doing pretty much all the work, and SEE just sitting there along for the ride. So a couple gimmicks vs JML are arguably even a little too strong, and tend to distract from everything else that's lacking.
TLDR: SEE's role is generally that of a diamond-encrusted platinum hood ornament on a rusty 1996 Toyota Camry. People who were on top of the brand-new Sith GL should be proud to have him and overjoyed to use him, not depressed, using the same old Sith counter squads on offense, and talking about quitting.