SEE definitely needs a buff!

Replies

  • Xagen wrote: »
    BTW, kaaeb5wshq8p.png
    9101zmxaggxl.png
    While most players have made their choice, seems only CG think that SEE will be really popular with his non-Gl kit :)

    After I unlocked SEE and started placing a little higher in Arena than I was with my GAS team I finally got invited to my shard chat on discord.

    It was eye opening to read back in the chat history and see all the non-SEE people in there saying about how bad SEE is and how SEE is easy to beat and solo, and his only use is beating JML.

    EVERYONE knows SEE is a bad GL with only one use, but only us SEE owners are coming to this thread and complaining

    rhikkiaznkdz.jpg
  • Xagen wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Xagen wrote: »
    BTW, kaaeb5wshq8p.png
    9101zmxaggxl.png
    While most players have made their choice, seems only CG think that SEE will be really popular with his non-Gl kit :)

    After I unlocked SEE and started placing a little higher in Arena than I was with my GAS team I finally got invited to my shard chat on discord.

    It was eye opening to read back in the chat history and see all the non-SEE people in there saying about how bad SEE is and how SEE is easy to beat and solo, and his only use is beating JML.

    EVERYONE knows SEE is a bad GL with only one use, but only us SEE owners are coming to this thread and complaining

    rhikkiaznkdz.jpg

    Yes, i have looked through many comments on this site, reddit, in discord channels like swgoh events, the Sith Order, even in the Galactic Empire channel, comments from my guildmates, from arena chats, on swgoh.tv etc Absolutely everywhere people speak up that SEE's worth is laughably small, and yes most players know that SEE is underworked and CG just disregards all these feedbacks, statistics, and keep silence. Just add, if moderator said that they don't keep silences---- if some products are not good for customer, developers will try to fix them ASAP and somehow attract customers' attention in order not to lose investments. And that's true as the fact that the sun sets in the west.

    Yeah it blows my mind how tight-lipped and opaque the devs are about this and how little interaction they have with the community.

    You go to any other game's official forums and they keep you updated regularly on their progress; interact with the community, answer questions, are transparent, etc.

    Kyno can defend them and say things like "just because the devs haven't said they won't buff him, doesn't mean they won't" or "they have a process, when they reach a decision we will hear from them"; but that doesn't change our feelings that their very opaque process is very discouraging. In any other game you would at least have the devs interacting and giving their thoughts on why a hero should or shouldn't be fixed, and working with the community to come to a solution that everyone can be on-board with.

    At this point I'm not even convinced there actually is a dev team, and the game isn't created and updated by AI supercomputers.

    I think CG/EA overall strategy is to maintain silence on things as long as possible because they rely on panic farming to make large profits. But in this case of SEE, that strategy doesn't make sense unless they really have no intention of buffing SEE. If they came here and simply said "SEE will be getting a buff over the next few weeks or months" I think a lot more people would spend to unlock him. Of course they could also be hoping people think SEE won't get buffed so that more players will spend on JML instead. Who knows.





  • Brotherius wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I have now just been informed that Padme is also on the list of teams that can use SEE as toilet paper.


    Posting videos of these tests can be helpful in allowing people to make judgements on their own. It also give a chance for more people to be involved and give feedback about changes and strategy.

    We have seen many videos of not the best matchups and using those to say one or the other is trash.

    There is also the idea that if they made all 4 GLs stand alones on defense that players would still need to hold them for offense as there are only so many DVs, WATs, Thrawns,....ext. which means they could have had less of a defensive mindset and designed them to do what they do on offense.

    Thinking of the overall roster strategy rather then the arena mindset. They have been hinting at wanting to get away from arena as the driving force, and it's possible they were going for the rock paper scissor type setup, where there are just situations where it doesnt make sense to put certain teams on defense, for any reason.

    I am not saying they should not look at making changes, just suggesting that the community also step back and look at this whole thing with a little perspective too.

    This makes sense for those who will have multiple if not all GLs. This really does not make sense or play fair to those who strive for their first / only GL
    That's basically where we're at. Players have expectations about a brand new GL and their ability to be useful against the previous meta, and we get that CG was trying not to overdo "power creep" so said that these new GLs would have a similar power level.

    But I don't see how we're anywhere near that if SEE requires a bunch of other GLs to be useful as an unnecessary luxury niche JML prot drainer, while the other GLs don't need SEE and have pretty strong uses in PVE too.


  • Apparently, Ahnald used Thrawn and Magmatrooper to beat SEE in 3 vs 3 GAC
  • SithAmer wrote: »


    Apparently, Ahnald used Thrawn and Magmatrooper to beat SEE in 3 vs 3 GAC

    To be fair he took out the rest of the team prior to that. This is kind of misleading.
  • dgree wrote: »
    I guess I didn't see the rock-paper-scissors announcement. IMO a totally imbalanced multi-GL meta is not R-P-S. If scissors beats everything and you know there's only like a 5% chance that you'll be up against scissors, there's not much point to using paper and the game is broken.

    I'd prefer not to deal with semantics, so if the lack of a Sith tag means SLKR is "a better leader of a Sith squad" rather than a "Sith leader," that's fine.

    Exactly this!
    Kyno wrote: »
    dgree wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    dgree wrote: »
    That's kinda how I interpreted the "Old GLs break the rock-paper-scissors goal of CG" thing. I'm far from convinced that this was an actual CG goal. But there's not really a point to SEE when SLKR already does everything he does but better. SLKR can counter JML fine, is better in the FO/Sith vs GR assault battle, and there are going to be way too many SLKRs in arena.

    SLKR is a superior Sith leader and does better damage--even against Jedi----with a host of amazing strengths in place of SEE's prot drain and smorgasbord of weaknesses.

    758f5v05b4h4.png

    They had a meta, comprised of teams made with 2 GLs in play. They said they wanted the new GLs to be on par with the old ones..... how does that play out and not become some sort of R-P-S like meta?

    SLKR is not a Sith leader.
    If SEE was actually on par then it's possible it could become rock-paper-scissors. Idk.

    Regarding SLKR not being a Sith leader, I summarized it recently:
    dgree wrote: »
    SEE's kit is Sith-centered, but SLKR does more for DS, Sith included, than SEE does.

    SEE:
    • Speed
    • Bonus mastery
    • Very modest mastery increases if the Sith allies even survive
    • Protection recovery for a generally HP-based faction
    • Reduced damage from one enemy attacker unless it's a GL


    SLKR:
    • Speed
    • Bonus mastery
    • Crit immunity against all enemies including GLs
    • Critical Damage bonus
    • Advantage plus CD Up for attackers, permataunt for tanks, mad TM gain for support
    • Max HP/Prot gain from TM removal
    • Everything SLKR does on his own--permastunning an enemy on start, cleansing debuffs, murdering everyone
    Sith with SLKR on offense are probably going to be quite a bit more common than SEE, since SLKR with Sith counters JML, and more Sith survive way more by the end of the battle.

    You said you didnt believe it was the plan, but that is the stated plan, so it seems that it was the plan. SEE not being quite there, 1 - does not make it not RPS like, as he can win, and the others are all mostly in line. So it's just not as balanced as we would all like.

    He is not a Sith, and his leadership doesnt call out Sith. He is not a Sith leader. It's quite simple.

    Him possibly having a better overall leadership doesnt make him something he is not. He may be a better leader, sure, but the team that better suits him is FO to help him get going faster.

    Call it all you want but By saying Slkr leader is better you are basically saying he is a better Sith leader. All See does is give them minor buffs, but he also nerfs them a ton by. The only reason he is not a “Sith leader” is because he does not have the Sith tag.
  • If It makes it better I will rephrase and say that he is a better leader for Sith
  • SithAmer wrote: »


    Apparently, Ahnald used Thrawn and Magmatrooper to beat SEE in 3 vs 3 GAC

    To be fair he took out the rest of the team prior to that. This is kind of misleading.

    Still sad that there's a team of two mediocre and easy access troopers under a many years old legendary that's able to beat SEE, even if he is solo. His solo survivability alone should prevent that pre-ult
  • Also isn’t kinda sad that Slkr who is FO fits better with Sith than Sith Eternal and See had the Sith tag.
  • Also isn’t kinda sad that Slkr who is FO fits better with Sith than Sith Eternal and See had the Sith tag.

    Yeah the tag is only relevant for people arguing that he "isn't a Sith lead." True, but his synergy from his lead works better with Sith teams than any other GL, despite one of them having a Sith tag. That isn't mutually exclusive with him being a leader for FO, it's another option for him. Seems a bit off that SEE doesn't really have any options where he's the best choice.
  • Except that FO still has incredibly tight Advantage synergy (or Crit synergy) as well as some out-of-turn attack synergy. That’s a good bit of what makes SLKR so good.

    Resistance used to be an Expose-Foresight synergy, but the new characters moved away from that in favor of Inspired - which means Rey doesn’t really have tight synergy with any non-RH Resistance characters.

    Sith do so many different things, but focus on general debuffing - something SEE only does partially. Other than that they have no real focus, which means no tight synergy for all Sith (and, no real tight synergy with any set of Sith).

    Jedi are essentially plugging the best ones with JML. They don’t really have a set synergy besides buffs and control - which JML does excellently, but it’s too generic of a focus to have tight synergy.
  • TargetEadu wrote: »
    Except that FO still has incredibly tight Advantage synergy (or Crit synergy) as well as some out-of-turn attack synergy. That’s a good bit of what makes SLKR so good.

    Resistance used to be an Expose-Foresight synergy, but the new characters moved away from that in favor of Inspired - which means Rey doesn’t really have tight synergy with any non-RH Resistance characters.

    Sith do so many different things, but focus on general debuffing - something SEE only does partially. Other than that they have no real focus, which means no tight synergy for all Sith (and, no real tight synergy with any set of Sith).

    Jedi are essentially plugging the best ones with JML. They don’t really have a set synergy besides buffs and control - which JML does excellently, but it’s too generic of a focus to have tight synergy.

    Yep, a great synopsis. And yet, with the vague leaderships of SEE and JML, and the tight synergy teams associated with SLKR and Rey, it's quite clear. SLKR and Rey are the better all-around leader toons, and yet JML and SEE require being good leaders to get their ults off. Ults that are, compared to SLKR and Rey, sub-par ults for both of them. It makes no sense that either of these could be seen as "on par" with such glaring kit deficiencies as this.
  • @Kyno

    Hmmm well Ive been using SEE for a bit, and I now understand your position. After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down. While SEE does kinda fart after initial blast, his redeeming quality is if it ends up GL vs GL he wins even if it takes a minute because in all honesty he can be pretty beefy. Im running a speed/health heavy build.

    Where Im now realizing the tweeks would really need to be is him in Defense honestly. And it loons to be a two fold problem. His team is pretty weak defensively where jedis constantly take advantage of kenobi and jml who can just take endless hits sometimes.

    The only other thing is the general weakness to darkside teams. Primarily in upper arena that only tends to be SLKRs so I avoid them. I would like to see alittle more use against those teams.

    The biggest issue I would say is the ability to avoid his kit by solo SLKR. I imagine thats a loophole.

    Again as someone that had my pitchfork out I kinda feel like a tool. Not saying he doesnt need tweaks but I find him useful in a lot of content lately. I have SLKR as a 2nd GL so im not some whale flaunting all 4.
  • Dkfusion wrote: »
    @Kyno

    After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down.

    It's still vader and wat carrying that team

  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    @Kyno

    After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down.

    It's still vader and wat carrying that team

    Yeah against Rey, Vader Wat and Thrawn can take it with any other leader, like EP helping them run circles around her supporting toons. It's not SEE that's helping you out, although it's wonderful to see someone actually getting good use out of him and still saying he needs tweaked, that makes it feel more real and less "mob mentality" :D
  • Also I have noticed this has not been addressed, does anyone know why See and Jml leaderships are restricted and yet Slkr and Rey are not. That is a start. It makes no sense that you have restrictions on two and none on the other two.

    Maybe when the first 2 GLs were released they didn't know if they were going to add more GLs in the future. So they made them good leaders for entire light and dark side factions. Maybe only added SEE and JML after seeing financial success from the first 2. Just a theory
  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Also I have noticed this has not been addressed, does anyone know why See and Jml leaderships are restricted and yet Slkr and Rey are not. That is a start. It makes no sense that you have restrictions on two and none on the other two.

    Maybe when the first 2 GLs were released they didn't know if they were going to add more GLs in the future. So they made them good leaders for entire light and dark side factions. Maybe only added SEE and JML after seeing financial success from the first 2. Just a theory
    I 100% see that. It is the most logical reasoning. The problem is that they had to have known they were going to make more. It also leaves a unbalanced aspect to the it.
  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Also I have noticed this has not been addressed, does anyone know why See and Jml leaderships are restricted and yet Slkr and Rey are not. That is a start. It makes no sense that you have restrictions on two and none on the other two.

    Maybe when the first 2 GLs were released they didn't know if they were going to add more GLs in the future. So they made them good leaders for entire light and dark side factions. Maybe only added SEE and JML after seeing financial success from the first 2. Just a theory

    If that's the case, I could see the easiest balance tweak as removing the restrictions on JML and SEE leadership and Ult charge. But even still, just because of all the benefits it grants, SLKR's lead will always be better for a Sith team than SEE's. The only reason you'd need SEE over SLKR is if you already have SLKR with an FO team elsewhere in GA or TW
  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Also I have noticed this has not been addressed, does anyone know why See and Jml leaderships are restricted and yet Slkr and Rey are not. That is a start. It makes no sense that you have restrictions on two and none on the other two.

    Maybe when the first 2 GLs were released they didn't know if they were going to add more GLs in the future. So they made them good leaders for entire light and dark side factions. Maybe only added SEE and JML after seeing financial success from the first 2. Just a theory

    If that's the case, I could see the easiest balance tweak as removing the restrictions on JML and SEE leadership and Ult charge. But even still, just because of all the benefits it grants, SLKR's lead will always be better for a Sith team than SEE's. The only reason you'd need SEE over SLKR is if you already have SLKR with an FO team elsewhere in GA or TW

    The problem is (in SEE’s case), how could you do that and still make him good with Sith? Something else would need to change, or people are just going to use Vader and friends under him and have SEE help out marginally more than he already does.

    Oh, and now all your allies can’t revive. Have fun!
  • LordDunbar wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    @Kyno

    After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down.

    It's still vader and wat carrying that team

    It's a Wat carry more than a vader...I could lose vader at the start and the outcome is the same. Really as long as SEE gets ult, it really is a win. I do tend to lose my whole team by the time that happens though, which can be meh.

    I'm not saying other leads plus Vader/thrawn/wat combo cant take Rey easy....I'm just saying I could take Rey with SEE, DR, Malak, BastF, Wat....no thrawn or vader needed and pretty easily. Easier than SLKR for me with SE team backing because with SLKR there can be some sketchy moments where if I don't finish certain people off by the 2nd AOE siphon it could go poorly. And my SLKR is heavily modded the best at 540 speed and upwards to 13k Damage. It just is what it is.

    Again not saying he doesn't need a tweak, I just am beginning to feel like my investment wasn't complete horse poo.

    Again Wat is crucial....but hes crucial everywhere. To say he shouldn't be needed on SEE team, would be a bit funny if hes used on JML, JKL, Vadar, DR, Rey teams. SLKR can even make pretty good use of him in SLKR mirror match ups. He's just a really good toon.
  • Dkfusion wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    @Kyno

    After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down.

    It's still vader and wat carrying that team

    It's a Wat carry more than a vader...I could lose vader at the start and the outcome is the same. Really as long as SEE gets ult, it really is a win. I do tend to lose my whole team by the time that happens though, which can be meh.

    I'm not saying other leads plus Vader/thrawn/wat combo cant take Rey easy....I'm just saying I could take Rey with SEE, DR, Malak, BastF, Wat....no thrawn or vader needed and pretty easily. Easier than SLKR for me with SE team backing because with SLKR there can be some sketchy moments where if I don't finish certain people off by the 2nd AOE siphon it could go poorly. And my SLKR is heavily modded the best at 540 speed and upwards to 13k Damage. It just is what it is.

    Again not saying he doesn't need a tweak, I just am beginning to feel like my investment wasn't complete horse poo.

    Again Wat is crucial....but hes crucial everywhere. To say he shouldn't be needed on SEE team, would be a bit funny if hes used on JML, JKL, Vadar, DR, Rey teams. SLKR can even make pretty good use of him in SLKR mirror match ups. He's just a really good toon.

    Well yeah, but the argument "you can't really compare with Wat, Wat's a great toon" doesn't hold much water. I can appreciate your point, but Wat isn't a GL, so if SEE doesn't feel as good, fun, exciting, or useful as Wat, then SEE is not performing at the GL level. Even though Wat adds to the other teams, he's not the only lynchpin holding it together. On an SEE team, he pretty much always is unless there's a modding/comp mistake on the opposing team.
  • Dkfusion wrote: »
    LordDunbar wrote: »
    Dkfusion wrote: »
    @Kyno

    After unlocking his Ult Im running nearly 100% against any JML or Rey team with a comp of SEE, Vader, Malak, DR, Wat. Can also throw in BastF if I really need to slow team TM down.

    It's still vader and wat carrying that team

    It's a Wat carry more than a vader...I could lose vader at the start and the outcome is the same. Really as long as SEE gets ult, it really is a win. I do tend to lose my whole team by the time that happens though, which can be meh.

    I'm not saying other leads plus Vader/thrawn/wat combo cant take Rey easy....I'm just saying I could take Rey with SEE, DR, Malak, BastF, Wat....no thrawn or vader needed and pretty easily. Easier than SLKR for me with SE team backing because with SLKR there can be some sketchy moments where if I don't finish certain people off by the 2nd AOE siphon it could go poorly. And my SLKR is heavily modded the best at 540 speed and upwards to 13k Damage. It just is what it is.

    Again not saying he doesn't need a tweak, I just am beginning to feel like my investment wasn't complete horse poo.

    Again Wat is crucial....but hes crucial everywhere. To say he shouldn't be needed on SEE team, would be a bit funny if hes used on JML, JKL, Vadar, DR, Rey teams. SLKR can even make pretty good use of him in SLKR mirror match ups. He's just a really good toon.

    Well yeah, but the argument "you can't really compare with Wat, Wat's a great toon" doesn't hold much water. I can appreciate your point, but Wat isn't a GL, so if SEE doesn't feel as good, fun, exciting, or useful as Wat, then SEE is not performing at the GL level. Even though Wat adds to the other teams, he's not the only lynchpin holding it together. On an SEE team, he pretty much always is unless there's a modding/comp mistake on the opposing team.

    Yea but why is Wat so valued? Because JML and SEE don't add an invulnerability to the fight at all like SLKR and Rey do. Rey stops complete damage out to the team if you try and hit her with a wall of high dmg toons without preping (thrawn vader) before taking her out of the equation. SLKR pretty much just uses his team to turn him into a god for 3 rounds in which he should have mopped up the fight. I suppose the question would be should all GL's be hemogenized that way?
Sign In or Register to comment.