The rewards are extremely pay to win. Guild members that have the most money get the best rewards constantly. Guilds are supposed to promote teamwork not be a competition of who has the most money.
With that said, the payout is ridiculously unfair and EA/CG is just weeping out the f2p and even the cheap p2p players who can't buy a $100 crystal pack each week. You guys are making the gap too large. Why can't you ever see that? Why not ask the community instead of making decisions with apparently no testing of feedback from those who actually play.
Check your application store reviews, a crappy rating like that usually prompts a company to ask it's users what they are doing wrong. I await your humble admittance that you screwed up this game bad.
Guilds shouldn't be gating gear for progress anyways. Its to add a social aspect to the game for ppl that want it.
The social element then gets strained because most of your guildees won't get the progress loot because you are getting it.
In a situation where the strong gets stronger and the weak remains weak therein lies the problem of a widening gap between guild mates. In a matter of time ppl will participate less because they dont get progress. Ppl will leave the guild. A new strong player wouldn't want in because he would have to fight the people who have already been getting gear. A weaker player would see no incentive to join because he wouldn't get to progress much either.
@Akster you are not a team guy eh? Me me me.... No regard for the rest of your guild that is helping you kill the rancor. The rewards should be equal or at least more spread out. Top 10 get good gear is ****, I suppose you are one to kick people out of a guild after you take their energy too.
Not a discussion guy eh? No regard for other people since you much prefer to make wild accusations in attempt to offend others instead of talking about the game.
A guild coming together to do enough damage to the rancor is teamwork, particularly in heroic tier 7 where there is a time limit. There are still rewards for those not in the top of the leaderboard, just a lesser amount due to having a lower contribution and not helping to defeat the raid as quickly. If someone contributed 500 damage to the rancor from just auto-fighting they sure do not deserve to get 500k credits + top quality equipment + Han shards + guild shop currency, while another person has spent an hour+ a day with their built up teams to deal 500k damage, yes, they do need to be compensated sufficiently in my person opinion.
Everyone is complaining saying they hate it, but I have not seen a SINGLE person come up with a suggestion to how a different system could work better, which comes across as hypocritical. Stating guilds are terrible etc. etc. is not much of a criticism without better solutions.
This is not how guilds should be implemented!! Well, how should they be then?
@Akster you are not a team guy eh? Me me me.... No regard for the rest of your guild that is helping you kill the rancor. The rewards should be equal or at least more spread out. Top 10 get good gear is ****, I suppose you are one to kick people out of a guild after you take their energy too.
Not a discussion guy eh? No regard for other people since you much prefer to make wild accusations in attempt to offend others instead of talking about the game.
A guild coming together to do enough damage to the rancor is teamwork, particularly in heroic tier 7 where there is a time limit. There are still rewards for those not in the top of the leaderboard, just a lesser amount due to having a lower contribution and not helping to defeat the raid as quickly. If someone contributed 500 damage to the rancor from just auto-fighting they sure do not deserve to get 500k credits + top quality equipment + Han shards + guild shop currency, while another person has spent an hour+ a day with their built up teams to deal 500k damage, yes, they do need to be compensated sufficiently in my person opinion.
Everyone is complaining saying they hate it, but I have not seen a SINGLE person come up with a suggestion to how a different system could work better, which comes across as hypocritical. Stating guilds are terrible etc. etc. is not much of a criticism without better solutions.
This is not how guilds should be implemented!! Well, how should they be then?
The posted image is absolutely beautiful
This sort of system of rewarding players by contribution simply fails. It creates a system where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor which is not a fun experience in any game, especially within a guild. It may even create animosity between guildmates as the top few continue to outperfom everyone and hog all the rewards. It doesn't make sense that one can actually do more, but earn less than someone in another guild because they are in a more competitive guild. Please read Naecabon's thread if you haven't so already, I'm too lazy to explain anymore.
Suggestion? Simple: everyone who participated in the raid gets equal chance at rewards. If someone in the guild is consistently not performing to the guild's standard and people feel like they are leeching... well they can simply get kicked by the leader/officers.
@Heisen Of course I have already read Narcabons post and do not agree with all of it.
Of course people in more competitive guilds can deserve to earn more, they put in more effort and coordinate better. In MMOs you don't get mad just because one guild can do heroic raids and get the best gear, the more you are able to do the better. If the person earning less because they are in a casual guild, that is because they are in a casual guild, their own choice, if they are willing to put so much more 'effort' in, then they should also join a guild of like-minded people who also want to put an equal amount of effort in, insetad of being in a casual guild that can not beat the higher content. if instead you just want to join a guild with laid back friends who don;t care much for being the best, that is perfectly fine, but in no way do you deserve the same level of rewards as a 'competitive' guild.
With your suggestion, it seems odd that someone who just started the game at lvl 1 can join a guild and suddenly gain hundreds of thousands of credits for not contributing much. The biggest issue with this is that you can then 'boost' other accounts by getting them rewards they should not be getting until they are lvl80. Everyone who participated getting equal chance of rewards is not all that bad, but it comes with its own problems.
In my opinion rewards given out on a 'damage done' basis, not a 'I did the most damage out of my guild' basis, may work better. You are no longer competing against your guildmates, and are rewarded based on your own personal achievements. This could disincentive some people from continuing to contribute once they reach a certain reward threshold which can be a problem for some guilds possibly (I say some, plenty of other people will still do as much as they can just to help the guild as a whole, or to defeat the raid quicker and reach higher tiers of raid), and how much damage done these rewards should be could be tricky to work out, but I think that kind of system would work better.
@Heisen Of course I have already read Narcabons post and do not agree with all of it.
Of course people in more competitive guilds can deserve to earn more, they put in more effort and coordinate better. In MMOs you don't get mad just because one guild can do heroic raids and get the best gear, the more you are able to do the better. If the person earning less because they are in a casual guild, that is because they are in a casual guild, their own choice, if they are willing to put so much more 'effort' in, then they should also join a guild of like-minded people who also want to put an equal amount of effort in, insetad of being in a casual guild that can not beat the higher content. if instead you just want to join a guild with laid back friends who don;t care much for being the best, that is perfectly fine, but in no way do you deserve the same level of rewards as a 'competitive' guild.
With your suggestion, it seems odd that someone who just started the game at lvl 1 can join a guild and suddenly gain hundreds of thousands of credits for not contributing much. The biggest issue with this is that you can then 'boost' other accounts by getting them rewards they should not be getting until they are lvl80. Everyone who participated getting equal chance of rewards is not all that bad, but it comes with its own problems.
In my opinion rewards given out on a 'damage done' basis, not a 'I did the most damage out of my guild' basis, may work better. You are no longer competing against your guildmates, and are rewarded based on your own personal achievements. This could disincentive some people from continuing to contribute once they reach a certain reward threshold which can be a problem for some guilds possibly (I say some, plenty of other people will still do as much as they can just to help the guild as a whole, or to defeat the raid quicker and reach higher tiers of raid), and how much damage done these rewards should be could be tricky to work out, but I think that kind of system would work better.
You could just as easily compete for bragging rights and more dominance in the guilds political structure by competing for the most damage done to the rancor, while leaving out the potential animosity from jealousy, that will surely plague many guilds during reward time.
Healthy sparring competition is far more suitible for a guild vs a struggle to get what you need for your roster.
This has to be the most lopsided poll I've ever seen.
Well, the poll is basically asking "would you rather play catch with your friends using a baseball or a live grenade?"
And there's only so many sociopaths.
Gernade catch is what I grew up playing, though for awhile until the life insurance paid out from dynimite catch casualties we could not afford the grenades. Dodgeball with molotov cocktails was also a real hoot growing up.
Rewards need to be the same for all team members. It would be ok if the top three get more than the remaining 47 but it cannot be that the reward is so significantly different between #1 and #50.
Just consider how you would feel if the gap/difference in contribution between the 1st and the50th is merely 5% but the difference in reward is almost 100%...
Oh yeah, I forgot. You don't care... :-(
After others massive posts I will not go into it. I won't fully judge until I see how it plays out.
I'm whaleish. By that I mean I'll drop so much so fast my bank card calls a halt for fear or fraud, yes it happened again tonight upon trying to get a pack after buying my 5th vault in a couple days. Then I'll go through spells where I do a vault only every 7-10 days, maybe even 2 weeks. Depends what is going on, massive farm, massive leveling of characters/promoting, or new level cap.
I'm in a guild where most do not spend as I do nor farm to my extent. That is their choice mine is mine. I feel guilty because they are as devoted as I am, as passionate as I am, just in different situations. It is not fair for me to change how I've played the game and slow my farming(that I've been working on since before guilds) however we are a team and me hogging the top because I spend and such does make me feel some guilt.
My thing is the purpose of the guild is to be a team. Hard to feel like that if we get the win and some rake it in and others do not. Sure the top prizes are great, but for me less sweet knowing my guildmate put their 100% in and did not reap the same rewards I did. All teams have their allstars and their role players and what not. The point is a team of allstars will not always win it. In 1999 the Buffalo Sabres went to the Stanley cup, they had no player in the top 50 in scoring, the only playoff team not to. I believe the top scorer was ranked in the 70's, yet they dominated and lost on a fluke miscall. Many teams teams of heart and soul pull it out over the big shots. So my point is why should the heart and soul members of the guild, who may have a more limited budget, roster, availability to time their strikes(areas of raid) suffer. A dead rancor is a dead rancor and all should reap the rewards equally if they participated.
Now this comes from the person with the highest power ranking and at the highest player level in the guild. We should share it equally for equal participation.
Now to not simply complain with no solution offered how about this?
You can refresh for 5 attacks, except heroic. How about the rewards are done up by attempts? I know there will be a cost of some kind to charge back in 4 more times. So how about restructure the rewards based on attempts? Sure there is the "It's not fair my availability" Though this is better than DPS. My maxed out Omega Rey in 2 turns will do more than an Omega max 5's going 8 times typically based on pure DPS. The raids will come down to who has the death dealers, who gets in at what lucky time, as pointed out in other posts. I know this idea has it's flaws, but doing it on a "DPS" meter is a bit off. Why would some that have weaker characters really want to go in? The strategy is also lost too. Who wants to go in with Barriss and 5's, who both would do well in this raid, when their DPS is weak? Barriss has to hit 6-8 times to equal a Rey hit or GS swarm or Leia triple hit, ect. It will turn into simply a fire fest everyone running their heaviest hitters to rack up that DPS. Kills teamwork and strategy, two things I looked forward to.
Raid rewards must change. In addition to the many valid points listed so far, I add the following. I am in a semi-hardcore guild with 80% of the members in the rank mid 70's, with several 6* & 7*, gear 8-9 toons, while 20% are in low 60's rank with equivalent inventories.
Here is the problem, a lower rank player can contribute significantly more guild currency towards unlocking a raud than a much higher rank member, but then get completely hosed on the raid rewards themselves, simply because they can't compete with their own mates when it comes to the raid.
So now you've created even more friction between mates, and disincentived lower ranked guild members from ever contributing more guild energy than bare minimum. Why should they when they don't get any raid benefit?
Please understand that raid rewards need to change.
I spent several hours of time recruiting great guys to play the game with, setting up discord to communicate, reading as much as possible, making decisions based on the limited intel we were given only to wind up feeling bamboozled.
My squad is level 72 (as of today : ), however I'm in the bottom 15% of people in my guild and I had no idea this was going to be detrimental to me to find quality people to play with. This guild system is setup to always make someone unhappy and want to go off and start their guild with cruddier players. I have guys that I've known online for a long time and want to play as a group with them. They introduced this game to me but you've now made it not make sense for me to play with them. Please change this!!!
After others massive posts I will not go into it. I won't fully judge until I see how it plays out.
I'm whaleish. By that I mean I'll drop so much so fast my bank card calls a halt for fear or fraud, yes it happened again tonight upon trying to get a pack after buying my 5th vault in a couple days. Then I'll go through spells where I do a vault only every 7-10 days, maybe even 2 weeks. Depends what is going on, massive farm, massive leveling of characters/promoting, or new level cap.
I'm in a guild where most do not spend as I do nor farm to my extent. That is their choice mine is mine. I feel guilty because they are as devoted as I am, as passionate as I am, just in different situations. It is not fair for me to change how I've played the game and slow my farming(that I've been working on since before guilds) however we are a team and me hogging the top because I spend and such does make me feel some guilt.
My thing is the purpose of the guild is to be a team. Hard to feel like that if we get the win and some rake it in and others do not. Sure the top prizes are great, but for me less sweet knowing my guildmate put their 100% in and did not reap the same rewards I did. All teams have their allstars and their role players and what not. The point is a team of allstars will not always win it. In 1999 the Buffalo Sabres went to the Stanley cup, they had no player in the top 50 in scoring, the only playoff team not to. I believe the top scorer was ranked in the 70's, yet they dominated and lost on a fluke miscall. Many teams teams of heart and soul pull it out over the big shots. So my point is why should the heart and soul members of the guild, who may have a more limited budget, roster, availability to time their strikes(areas of raid) suffer. A dead rancor is a dead rancor and all should reap the rewards equally if they participated.
Now this comes from the person with the highest power ranking and at the highest player level in the guild. We should share it equally for equal participation.
I don't usually like to quote long posts, as they make it difficult to read the thread (especially on a phone), but DMS hit this out of the park. Well said sir.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Really everyone who participated should get both boxes, and the variance between credits and guild currency rewards can be somewhere around 15% top to bottom. That's all the incentive someone needs for individual contribution in a raid. That and a leaderboard of who dealt the most damage is all the competition I'd want in a cooperative activity like this.
Perfect! If only we could push this through, the Raid would be the best thing this game ever had and will have.
Proud and Belgian officer of [DTA] BIER DTA | official Lando Calrissian fanboy KappaPride
When FC Barcelona won the Uefa Champions league, did the persons that scored the goals get a bigger trophy than the persons that didn't? This is just a failed implementation of an idea that is as solid as they get...Guilds=teamwork=whoever participates in the raid needs the same rewards as all the others! They felt the need to be innovative and tried re-inventing the wheel with something that didn't need it. And now many problems arise...like shady guilds that will kick whales at the right time, after they've contributed hard to the guild. And many others.
Everyone is complaining saying they hate it, but I have not seen a SINGLE person come up with a suggestion to how a different system could work better, which comes across as hypocritical. Stating guilds are terrible etc. etc. is not much of a criticism without better solutions.
Are you being intentionally dense, outright deceitful or simply lazy? From the very first page of this thread:
Really everyone who participated should get both boxes, and the variance between credits and guild currency rewards can be somewhere around 15% top to bottom. That's all the incentive someone needs for individual contribution in a raid. That and a leaderboard of who dealt the most damage is all the competition I'd want in a cooperative activity like this.
There are also numerous other proposals in Naecabon's excellent thread that would encourage teamwork and still give an incentive bonus to the top producers - without creating disparity, animosity and the top-heavy structure currently in place.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Replies
+1
With that said, the payout is ridiculously unfair and EA/CG is just weeping out the f2p and even the cheap p2p players who can't buy a $100 crystal pack each week. You guys are making the gap too large. Why can't you ever see that? Why not ask the community instead of making decisions with apparently no testing of feedback from those who actually play.
Check your application store reviews, a crappy rating like that usually prompts a company to ask it's users what they are doing wrong. I await your humble admittance that you screwed up this game bad.
The social element then gets strained because most of your guildees won't get the progress loot because you are getting it.
In a situation where the strong gets stronger and the weak remains weak therein lies the problem of a widening gap between guild mates. In a matter of time ppl will participate less because they dont get progress. Ppl will leave the guild. A new strong player wouldn't want in because he would have to fight the people who have already been getting gear. A weaker player would see no incentive to join because he wouldn't get to progress much either.
Pretty weaksauce of a system to me.
@CG_JohnSalera .. please, please run stuff like this by us ahead of time. It will save everyone so much grief.
Not a discussion guy eh? No regard for other people since you much prefer to make wild accusations in attempt to offend others instead of talking about the game.
A guild coming together to do enough damage to the rancor is teamwork, particularly in heroic tier 7 where there is a time limit. There are still rewards for those not in the top of the leaderboard, just a lesser amount due to having a lower contribution and not helping to defeat the raid as quickly. If someone contributed 500 damage to the rancor from just auto-fighting they sure do not deserve to get 500k credits + top quality equipment + Han shards + guild shop currency, while another person has spent an hour+ a day with their built up teams to deal 500k damage, yes, they do need to be compensated sufficiently in my person opinion.
Everyone is complaining saying they hate it, but I have not seen a SINGLE person come up with a suggestion to how a different system could work better, which comes across as hypocritical. Stating guilds are terrible etc. etc. is not much of a criticism without better solutions.
This is not how guilds should be implemented!! Well, how should they be then?
The posted image is absolutely beautiful
This sort of system of rewarding players by contribution simply fails. It creates a system where the rich get richer and the poor stay poor which is not a fun experience in any game, especially within a guild. It may even create animosity between guildmates as the top few continue to outperfom everyone and hog all the rewards. It doesn't make sense that one can actually do more, but earn less than someone in another guild because they are in a more competitive guild. Please read Naecabon's thread if you haven't so already, I'm too lazy to explain anymore.
Suggestion? Simple: everyone who participated in the raid gets equal chance at rewards. If someone in the guild is consistently not performing to the guild's standard and people feel like they are leeching... well they can simply get kicked by the leader/officers.
Of course people in more competitive guilds can deserve to earn more, they put in more effort and coordinate better. In MMOs you don't get mad just because one guild can do heroic raids and get the best gear, the more you are able to do the better. If the person earning less because they are in a casual guild, that is because they are in a casual guild, their own choice, if they are willing to put so much more 'effort' in, then they should also join a guild of like-minded people who also want to put an equal amount of effort in, insetad of being in a casual guild that can not beat the higher content. if instead you just want to join a guild with laid back friends who don;t care much for being the best, that is perfectly fine, but in no way do you deserve the same level of rewards as a 'competitive' guild.
With your suggestion, it seems odd that someone who just started the game at lvl 1 can join a guild and suddenly gain hundreds of thousands of credits for not contributing much. The biggest issue with this is that you can then 'boost' other accounts by getting them rewards they should not be getting until they are lvl80. Everyone who participated getting equal chance of rewards is not all that bad, but it comes with its own problems.
In my opinion rewards given out on a 'damage done' basis, not a 'I did the most damage out of my guild' basis, may work better. You are no longer competing against your guildmates, and are rewarded based on your own personal achievements. This could disincentive some people from continuing to contribute once they reach a certain reward threshold which can be a problem for some guilds possibly (I say some, plenty of other people will still do as much as they can just to help the guild as a whole, or to defeat the raid quicker and reach higher tiers of raid), and how much damage done these rewards should be could be tricky to work out, but I think that kind of system would work better.
You could just as easily compete for bragging rights and more dominance in the guilds political structure by competing for the most damage done to the rancor, while leaving out the potential animosity from jealousy, that will surely plague many guilds during reward time.
Healthy sparring competition is far more suitible for a guild vs a struggle to get what you need for your roster.
NOT competing with eachother like your own guild mates are your Arena Nemesis?
How can you take something thats suppose to help you build bonds, and flip it upside down? Dont you guys think ANYTHING through?
lol
Gernade catch is what I grew up playing, though for awhile until the life insurance paid out from dynimite catch casualties we could not afford the grenades. Dodgeball with molotov cocktails was also a real hoot growing up.
Just consider how you would feel if the gap/difference in contribution between the 1st and the50th is merely 5% but the difference in reward is almost 100%...
Oh yeah, I forgot. You don't care... :-(
After others massive posts I will not go into it. I won't fully judge until I see how it plays out.
I'm whaleish. By that I mean I'll drop so much so fast my bank card calls a halt for fear or fraud, yes it happened again tonight upon trying to get a pack after buying my 5th vault in a couple days. Then I'll go through spells where I do a vault only every 7-10 days, maybe even 2 weeks. Depends what is going on, massive farm, massive leveling of characters/promoting, or new level cap.
I'm in a guild where most do not spend as I do nor farm to my extent. That is their choice mine is mine. I feel guilty because they are as devoted as I am, as passionate as I am, just in different situations. It is not fair for me to change how I've played the game and slow my farming(that I've been working on since before guilds) however we are a team and me hogging the top because I spend and such does make me feel some guilt.
My thing is the purpose of the guild is to be a team. Hard to feel like that if we get the win and some rake it in and others do not. Sure the top prizes are great, but for me less sweet knowing my guildmate put their 100% in and did not reap the same rewards I did. All teams have their allstars and their role players and what not. The point is a team of allstars will not always win it. In 1999 the Buffalo Sabres went to the Stanley cup, they had no player in the top 50 in scoring, the only playoff team not to. I believe the top scorer was ranked in the 70's, yet they dominated and lost on a fluke miscall. Many teams teams of heart and soul pull it out over the big shots. So my point is why should the heart and soul members of the guild, who may have a more limited budget, roster, availability to time their strikes(areas of raid) suffer. A dead rancor is a dead rancor and all should reap the rewards equally if they participated.
Now this comes from the person with the highest power ranking and at the highest player level in the guild. We should share it equally for equal participation.
Now to not simply complain with no solution offered how about this?
You can refresh for 5 attacks, except heroic. How about the rewards are done up by attempts? I know there will be a cost of some kind to charge back in 4 more times. So how about restructure the rewards based on attempts? Sure there is the "It's not fair my availability" Though this is better than DPS. My maxed out Omega Rey in 2 turns will do more than an Omega max 5's going 8 times typically based on pure DPS. The raids will come down to who has the death dealers, who gets in at what lucky time, as pointed out in other posts. I know this idea has it's flaws, but doing it on a "DPS" meter is a bit off. Why would some that have weaker characters really want to go in? The strategy is also lost too. Who wants to go in with Barriss and 5's, who both would do well in this raid, when their DPS is weak? Barriss has to hit 6-8 times to equal a Rey hit or GS swarm or Leia triple hit, ect. It will turn into simply a fire fest everyone running their heaviest hitters to rack up that DPS. Kills teamwork and strategy, two things I looked forward to.
Here is the problem, a lower rank player can contribute significantly more guild currency towards unlocking a raud than a much higher rank member, but then get completely hosed on the raid rewards themselves, simply because they can't compete with their own mates when it comes to the raid.
So now you've created even more friction between mates, and disincentived lower ranked guild members from ever contributing more guild energy than bare minimum. Why should they when they don't get any raid benefit?
Please understand that raid rewards need to change.
This
My squad is level 72 (as of today : ), however I'm in the bottom 15% of people in my guild and I had no idea this was going to be detrimental to me to find quality people to play with. This guild system is setup to always make someone unhappy and want to go off and start their guild with cruddier players. I have guys that I've known online for a long time and want to play as a group with them. They introduced this game to me but you've now made it not make sense for me to play with them. Please change this!!!
Thank you,
21
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Perfect! If only we could push this through, the Raid would be the best thing this game ever had and will have.
Are you being intentionally dense, outright deceitful or simply lazy? From the very first page of this thread:
There are also numerous other proposals in Naecabon's excellent thread that would encourage teamwork and still give an incentive bonus to the top producers - without creating disparity, animosity and the top-heavy structure currently in place.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*