Grand Moff Tarkin - nobody asks for him to be nerfed. He has a chance to remove turn meter with his AoE. He also applies the damage debuff to the entire squad but it is resistible. That debuff could also wreck a team, believe me. He should be a model for Poe. Best comp I can think of. Poe can still go fast in my book but the turn meter thing should be resistible and only a chance to work to bring him in line with other characters. Make sense? Otherwise, leave him as is and put him with Han in speed.
☮ Consular ☮ Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. -Ben Kenobi
Grand Moff Tarkin - nobody asks for him to be nerfed. He has a chance to remove turn meter with his AoE. He also applies the damage debuff to the entire squad but it is resistible. That debuff could also wreck a team, believe me. He should be a model for Poe. Best comp I can think of. Poe can still go fast in my book but the turn meter thing should be resistible and only a chance to work to bring him in line with other characters. Make sense? Otherwise, leave him as is and put him with Han in speed.
All of you who say that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about because I'm not level 60+.
Let's clarify this issue let's. When you level up it increases the stats of a character why? So that it can continue to do the same things the character was designed to do and the stats increases in accordance to other charters stats so that it can continue to do them. If this was not true then the characters stats would mean nothing and the game truly would be rng
Tarkin 102 speed, Poe 147, great comparison. Many people don't get the point or don't want to see the point (I understand ranking #1 each day with that comp and now having to defend your team in another nerfpost). I'm also going to consider the fact that not everyone has the intelligence to comprehend the problem. Seeing this topic hurts my eyes and the ignorance is great in this one. If you can't see the problem and think you need skill or strategy to overcome this.. well I rest my case. Also I only see pictures and vids of people making points why to nerf him, though I never see a picture or video where someone beats said team with "strategy". To all those defenders, post some proof or back up your theory with facts.
@sephiroth198900 Told you said you would stop replying 3 pages back Stop replying, unfortunately you didn't experience the same we do at max lvl max gear in top 10 of arena.
My 3 star Poe is also not a threat since his speed is low anyway. But ye internetdiscussions...
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
The Poe 143 speed thing was so obvious a problem before the 70 patch even came out, and why CG didn't even consider slightly altering his gear before the patch is beyond me. Now, "fixing" it requires a nerf. Before, "fixing" it meant altering stuff that wasn't released yet, bothering no one.
Comparing Poe 143 speed to anything else in the game atm in regards to problematic balance automatically indicates a generally poor understanding of the issue. It's unlike all other balance issues and creates problems for very different reasons than, say, FOTP being ungodly powerful and OP. FOTP is broken for an entirely different set of reasons than Poe. If people can't see the differences and understand what's going on here, well... that's your own shortcoming. But plenty do, and it's a seriously concerning issue that enough people actually think Poe is not a problem right now.
Spot on. There is literally no hard counter to Poe aside from another Poe. These fantasy solutions involving Mace, Asajj, etc show an utter lack of understanding about basic game mechanics. It's impossible to have a conversation with those types of people because they don't get it on a basic level.
Seems like Poe's gonna take one for the team in the coming update. At least according to the amount of fuss around him, that is. Considering Barriss that will happen rather sooner than later. Poor Poe, does what he is supposed to do. And does that actually pretty well.
Of course they could just rebalance the "whole" issue of speed/dmg relative to health = current state of the game. But hey, lets just slap Poe a couple of times and everything's fine for another month or two. --> Understandably so, since the game officially lauched just 2 months ago. Means "buying time" to fix the bigger picture is actually somewhat of a big deal (for CG).
I'm okay with whatever the course of action will be.
Lol no worries I really do think we should move on to other things though ultimately we have no control it's all up to the developers I hold no grudges against anyone
I will be annoyed if Poe does get nerfed, I started farming him a few days ago and should have him by Friday, with my attacking team he should help me fight for number 1 spot. At the moment the guy in number 1 is too powerful for me to beat and the guy in number 2 has HK-47 as leader with IG-86, IG-88, Poggle and Poe. Poe applies his buffs right off the bat and within 30 seconds my whole team is down to less than half health so I simply can not beat him. For me it isn't the buffs that make it hard work, it's the taunt. If he didn't taunt I could kill at least 2 of his heroes before he gets another turn but because I am left having to target Poe that isn't an option. Do I want him nerfing? Not at all, I want to see what he can do when I add him to my attacking, none healer team.
Many friends are trying to explain in this thread that high damage and poor health are the real problem for now.
I repeat again and again, I never deny that. But I have to emphasize that, without poe's meter reduction and taunt, these glass cannons can be easily wiped out. It is Poe's meter reduction makes your team can't make a move at all when your enemy's team already take 3-4 actions.
On a side Note: Maybe a fast Yoda is coming .. with Purge + Meter reduction.
Or some other toon with a passive Unique that reads something like:
"All Allies have a chance of 25% to gain 25% Turnmeter whenever Turnmeter is reduced."
I've been reading this thread and ones like this in order to decide whether i should unlock Poe or not. I have enough tokens to unlock and star him up but i'm afraid of a possible nerf just when get him. I wish devs shared their opinions on this matter...
@Cyn
I wish the things worked like that. Remember what happened with Barriss nerf. It came out of nowhere and she was doing just what her description said. She was just better than other healers and now Poe is way better than other tanks. It's not that i hate him and asking to be nerfed. I just wanna make sure all effort i spend on him doesn't get wasted.
Nerfing him isn't the answer. His expose skill doesn't always land; when it does it can be devastating; however, it is not only possible to survive the round that occurs, but also win the entire match. Take time to flesh out other units that could be an answer to him. Luminara works great with her ability block as well as her heal in response to being hit by him. Other fast units that can hit him to take him out, or even AoE units that disregard his taunt help to deal with him as well. Don't simply get upset at losing to him; look at what is going on and put the work in with character synergies to come up with a response. Almost nothing is truly over powered in this game; there are counters to pretty much everything. Oh yeah, try looking into Tenacity and then see what characters offer that as a leadership skill.
Luke (everyone) and aayla (jedi's only) are your tenacity leaders
Nobody here has any clue what is coming with the new characters being introduced. There could be all kinds of things in the mix. We all know the TFA characters had to get rushed out to coincide with the movie to help pump the app. Judging by how powerful several of them are there will probably be plenty of counters coming.
I don't see the high damage meta going anywhere as that's where things always end up otherwise the game begins to feel totally samey across the board and characters no longer stand out.
To many people, Poe stands out right now. Not two weeks ago everyone thought he was crap and complained how Android got Phasma. Amazing difference two whopping weeks makes.
All I'm hearing at this point in this thread is a bunch of people **** off that either a) they didn't get free Poe or b) they didn't level up Poe. Either way, they feel like they are struggling with _the way they planned their team_. No one seems to want to change it up. There are SO MANY possible counters to Poe's mechanic already in the game even. It's laughable. From speed builds to evasion builds to whatever builds. Poe doesn't need a nerf, other tanks need a buff (if anything).
Let's just keep things the same forever so we never have to get more characters or abilities or learn some strategy. Let's just keep it so we can all keep our #1 Arena spots forever without having to earn it.
Seriously, get over it. Poe is out there. He's fine. Next week it will be some other character everyone cries about. If Poe is so good, go level him up and use him! DUH! What's your excuse? There isn't one.
Nerfing is _never_ the answer. Finding a way to introduce new mechanics and buffing other things is _always_ a better solution.
I've watched so many really really good games completely break and implode because devs used a 'nerf to balance' policy instead of developing forward. Star Wars Galaxies is just one example.
Nobody here has any clue what is coming with the new characters being introduced. There could be all kinds of things in the mix. We all know the TFA characters had to get rushed out to coincide with the movie to help pump the app. Judging by how powerful several of them are there will probably be plenty of counters coming.
I don't see the high damage meta going anywhere as that's where things always end up otherwise the game begins to feel totally samey across the board and characters no longer stand out.
To many people, Poe stands out right now. Not two weeks ago everyone thought he was crap and complained how Android got Phasma. Amazing difference two whopping weeks makes.
All I'm hearing at this point in this thread is a bunch of people **** off that either a) they didn't get free Poe or b) they didn't level up Poe. Either way, they feel like they are struggling with _the way they planned their team_. No one seems to want to change it up. There are SO MANY possible counters to Poe's mechanic already in the game even. It's laughable. From speed builds to evasion builds to whatever builds. Poe doesn't need a nerf, other tanks need a buff (if anything).
Let's just keep things the same forever so we never have to get more characters or abilities or learn some strategy. Let's just keep it so we can all keep our #1 Arena spots forever without having to earn it.
Seriously, get over it. Poe is out there. He's fine. Next week it will be some other character everyone cries about. If Poe is so good, go level him up and use him! DUH! What's your excuse? There isn't one.
Nerfing is _never_ the answer. Finding a way to introduce new mechanics and buffing other things is _always_ a better solution.
I've watched so many really really good games completely break and implode because devs used a 'nerf to balance' policy instead of developing forward. Star Wars Galaxies is just one example.
The issue with Poe is unless a new mechanic comes out he can not be countered correctly. Nobody in this level bracket is faster then him, tenacity does not effect turn meter reduction. So no matter what character is introduced unless that leader skill says specifically resists turn meter reduction, then Poe will always be overpowered. You have to wait for the very last level of gear for Rey and dooku to get a garunteed turn before him which may or may not kill him before he goes. Nae and I called out Poe for being overpowered right after we discovered that 143 is the break for round 7 attacks like 2-3 weeks ago. Is it impossible to beat a Poe team if he goes first, of course not. Does it give the other team an unreasonable advantage that no one character should be able to, absolutely. For everyone claiming he is counterable and I beat a Poe team once, yes we get it, it is possible. Team instinct have argued this in about a million posts all over this forum. We just feel he needs and adjustment so that he is still good just not required in every single team, so we can finally get rid of the coin flip Poe versus Poe rng.
The current build to counter Poe is another Poe build.
If all you're seeing is s bunch of **** of people who have nothing to contribute other than complaints about not getting a free Poe or being too lazy to level one you've either failed to read the thread (which I would understand given its length) or failed to comprehend the discussion as to why.
It doesn't matter what counter you develop when all your toons are one or two turns behind your opponents; and by the time you go two or more of yours are dead.
There are many very knowledgeable players with very deep rosters that have contributed as to why he is an issue. I'm sorry you aren't interested in reading or acknowledging them.
Also I played SWG from launch on bloodfin. Our server was typically way ahead of all other servers in all things pvp. The Devs even acknowledged our server as the unofficial pvp server. That being said SWG's major problems had nothing to do with nerfs or balance passes. It's not what killed the game. It went through the same balance passes as every other MMO ever. SWG problems were that it was rushed to release....badly. Speeders weren't even in game yet, among other things. I had to grind the investigations tree of bounty hunter by walking to waypoints. The post launch disaster, which included a server crash the entire first day, drove many away. But this was nothing compared to the CU and NGE. Both were fundamental changes to the core mechanics of the game. They had nothing to do with balance and everything to do with WoW. The suits at SOE, specifically John Smedley, were disappointed with the income of the first and only Star Wars MMO to date. As a result they changed the fundamental mechanics of the game to bring it more in line with WoW in the hopes of drawing in some of that crowd. It backfired and the game hemorrhaged subs.
The point of all this was that nerfs and buffs happen in all multiplayer games. They don't kill games by themselves. Poor development decisions do.
Everyone really it is pointless to go on about this everyone has made their statements and clams all we can do now is wait the developers will take whatever action they feel is best and we cannot speed this along in any way.
you can sit back and wait and see what happens.
Go ahead and quit the game now
Or continue to look like a fool by continuing this nonsense
Lmao heard that before and that's my point because in those top ten are p2p players and have exclusive charters that you have to pay for that can 1 hit or just got charters all the way leveled up because they are p2p players and they do massive amounts of damage but on these lower levels I'm on not so good Poe is because there is no where near the damage behind him there for Poe is not the problem the problem is the massive damage
Look honestly you should not even be discussing this than untill you get the endgame that's where the balance needs to be directed.
All of you who say that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about because I'm not level 60+.
Let's clarify this issue let's. When you level up it increases the stats of a character why? So that it can continue to do the same things the character was designed to do and the stats increases in accordance to other charters stats so that it can continue to do them. If this was not true then the characters stats would mean nothing and the game truly would be rng [/quote
The current build to counter Poe is another Poe build.
If all you're seeing is s bunch of **** of people who have nothing to contribute other than complaints about not getting a free Poe or being too lazy to level one you've either failed to read the thread (which I would understand given its length) or failed to comprehend the discussion as to why.
It doesn't matter what counter you develop when all your toons are one or two turns behind your opponents; and by the time you go two or more of yours are dead.
There are many very knowledgeable players with very deep rosters that have contributed as to why he is an issue. I'm sorry you aren't interested in reading or acknowledging them.
Also I played SWG from launch on bloodfin. Our server was typically way ahead of all other servers in all things pvp. The Devs even acknowledged our server as the unofficial pvp server. That being said SWG's major problems had nothing to do with nerfs or balance passes. It's not what killed the game. It went through the same balance passes as every other MMO ever. SWG problems were that it was rushed to release....badly. Speeders weren't even in game yet, among other things. I had to grind the investigations tree of bounty hunter by walking to waypoints. The post launch disaster, which included a server crash the entire first day, drove many away. But this was nothing compared to the CU and NGE. Both were fundamental changes to the core mechanics of the game. They had nothing to do with balance and everything to do with WoW. The suits at SOE, specifically John Smedley, were disappointed with the income of the first and only Star Wars MMO to date. As a result they changed the fundamental mechanics of the game to bring it more in line with WoW in the hopes of drawing in some of that crowd. It backfired and the game hemorrhaged subs.
The point of all this was that nerfs and buffs happen in all multiplayer games. They don't kill games by themselves. Poor development decisions do.
I would add to that as well. I played on bloodfin too. SWG had so much going for it and nobody asked for them to change the game... What resulted after was one of the biggest subscriber loss in any mmo I've ever seen. Was a **** shame the game was amazing till they ruined it.
One of what I see as Poes biggest issues is his high variance.
If you are running a high-damage line-up with Poe and face another high-damage Poe line-up then the Poe that lost the turn 1 lottery is pretty much useless as you will likely be down two damagedealers and even if you can taunt, you will still play second fiddle and be late to the second round of attacks as well (as the turnmeter reduction does nothing and Poe by himself is not that tanky and does almost no damage).
The only counter I can see to Poe without running my own Poe (and therefor give up some games) is to cram as many high-speed characters into my line-up as possible to make it a reasonable chance of at least taking out someone before Poe taunts, and then run someone that can actually help dealing with the second round of attacks. You will still get a ~20 % chance of straight up losing, but then I can at least feel like I bring some skill into the game.
Many friends are trying to explain in this thread that high damage and poor health are the real problem for now.
I repeat again and again, I never deny that. But I have to emphasize that, without poe's meter reduction and taunt, these glass cannons can be easily wiped out. It is Poe's meter reduction makes your team can't make a move at all when your enemy's team already take 3-4 actions.
This.
guys,with no offense, this is the point. For the top 10 arena player, most of the wars are decided by poe, for the top 3 arena player, it's definitely decided by Poe. Whose poe moves first, whose team will win. Thanks to the rng and meter reduction.
- Give Poe's Turn Meter Reduction a % chance to hit enemies, instead of allowing it to be 100% of the time.
- Give characters a chance to resist Turn Meter Reduction checks, similar to debuff resistances.
- Remove the Turn Meter Reduction portion of Poe's Taunt entirely and replace it with something that helps him live longer, like Defense Up and HP Up, or maybe allow him to give a significant Turn Meter boost to one member of your team. (Boosting the entire team does not really solve the problem.) The fact that his Taunt already triggers team-wide Exposes a good portion of the time already makes it very powerful as it is, so I don't feel that this needs to be something outrageously powerful to keep Poe as an effective Tank. If anything, Defense/HP Up instead of the Turn Meter Reduction makes him far, far tankier and better at his job.
- Give us a character with a leader abilitiy that says something like “If an enemy would cause an ally to lose Turn Meter, gain that much Turn Meter instead. Additionally, if a skill would boost Turn Meter for any ally, increase the Turn Meter Gain by 4/5/6/7/8/9/10%” (Put a -1 cooldown in there somewhere). This would introduce an actual “counter” to Poe, at the cost of sacrificing an offensive boost like Darth Sidious or Phasma as lead. The additional Turn Meter bonus from an ally was just an idea to have this character actually serve a purpose even when facing a team that has no Turn Meter manipulation whatsoever, so it's not just a stone blank in that case. It also allows for some neat Turn Meter comp tinkering, with characters like Stormtrooper Han. Just an idea, this could be changed to anything of course.
Replies
Tarkin has 102 max speed. Need i say more?
All of you who say that I can't possibly know what I'm talking about because I'm not level 60+.
Let's clarify this issue let's. When you level up it increases the stats of a character why? So that it can continue to do the same things the character was designed to do and the stats increases in accordance to other charters stats so that it can continue to do them. If this was not true then the characters stats would mean nothing and the game truly would be rng
@sephiroth198900 Told you said you would stop replying 3 pages back
My 3 star Poe is also not a threat since his speed is low anyway. But ye internetdiscussions...
Btw I did like your proposition about increasing armor/defense or reducing dmg.
Spot on. There is literally no hard counter to Poe aside from another Poe. These fantasy solutions involving Mace, Asajj, etc show an utter lack of understanding about basic game mechanics. It's impossible to have a conversation with those types of people because they don't get it on a basic level.
Of course they could just rebalance the "whole" issue of speed/dmg relative to health = current state of the game. But hey, lets just slap Poe a couple of times and everything's fine for another month or two. --> Understandably so, since the game officially lauched just 2 months ago. Means "buying time" to fix the bigger picture is actually somewhat of a big deal (for CG).
I'm okay with whatever the course of action will be.
This.
Or some other toon with a passive Unique that reads something like:
"All Allies have a chance of 25% to gain 25% Turnmeter whenever Turnmeter is reduced."
It makes no sense to nerf Poe but perhaps they will, who knows. He is strong but hes is not bugged like other characters.
It's fun for the first few days but it gets boring. I hate to say it but they need to do something to get things mixed up again.
I wish the things worked like that. Remember what happened with Barriss nerf. It came out of nowhere and she was doing just what her description said. She was just better than other healers and now Poe is way better than other tanks. It's not that i hate him and asking to be nerfed. I just wanna make sure all effort i spend on him doesn't get wasted.
Rey Kylo Leia Tie Pilot Poe Phasma
Why don't you just delete your game or if you can't beat em join them lol
Kit fisto
I don't see the high damage meta going anywhere as that's where things always end up otherwise the game begins to feel totally samey across the board and characters no longer stand out.
To many people, Poe stands out right now. Not two weeks ago everyone thought he was crap and complained how Android got Phasma. Amazing difference two whopping weeks makes.
All I'm hearing at this point in this thread is a bunch of people **** off that either a) they didn't get free Poe or b) they didn't level up Poe. Either way, they feel like they are struggling with _the way they planned their team_. No one seems to want to change it up. There are SO MANY possible counters to Poe's mechanic already in the game even. It's laughable. From speed builds to evasion builds to whatever builds. Poe doesn't need a nerf, other tanks need a buff (if anything).
Let's just keep things the same forever so we never have to get more characters or abilities or learn some strategy. Let's just keep it so we can all keep our #1 Arena spots forever without having to earn it.
Seriously, get over it. Poe is out there. He's fine. Next week it will be some other character everyone cries about. If Poe is so good, go level him up and use him! DUH! What's your excuse? There isn't one.
Again, I will quote @CG_JohnSalera "Patience."
Nerfing is _never_ the answer. Finding a way to introduce new mechanics and buffing other things is _always_ a better solution.
I've watched so many really really good games completely break and implode because devs used a 'nerf to balance' policy instead of developing forward. Star Wars Galaxies is just one example.
The issue with Poe is unless a new mechanic comes out he can not be countered correctly. Nobody in this level bracket is faster then him, tenacity does not effect turn meter reduction. So no matter what character is introduced unless that leader skill says specifically resists turn meter reduction, then Poe will always be overpowered. You have to wait for the very last level of gear for Rey and dooku to get a garunteed turn before him which may or may not kill him before he goes. Nae and I called out Poe for being overpowered right after we discovered that 143 is the break for round 7 attacks like 2-3 weeks ago. Is it impossible to beat a Poe team if he goes first, of course not. Does it give the other team an unreasonable advantage that no one character should be able to, absolutely. For everyone claiming he is counterable and I beat a Poe team once, yes we get it, it is possible. Team instinct have argued this in about a million posts all over this forum. We just feel he needs and adjustment so that he is still good just not required in every single team, so we can finally get rid of the coin flip Poe versus Poe rng.
If all you're seeing is s bunch of **** of people who have nothing to contribute other than complaints about not getting a free Poe or being too lazy to level one you've either failed to read the thread (which I would understand given its length) or failed to comprehend the discussion as to why.
It doesn't matter what counter you develop when all your toons are one or two turns behind your opponents; and by the time you go two or more of yours are dead.
There are many very knowledgeable players with very deep rosters that have contributed as to why he is an issue. I'm sorry you aren't interested in reading or acknowledging them.
Also I played SWG from launch on bloodfin. Our server was typically way ahead of all other servers in all things pvp. The Devs even acknowledged our server as the unofficial pvp server. That being said SWG's major problems had nothing to do with nerfs or balance passes. It's not what killed the game. It went through the same balance passes as every other MMO ever. SWG problems were that it was rushed to release....badly. Speeders weren't even in game yet, among other things. I had to grind the investigations tree of bounty hunter by walking to waypoints. The post launch disaster, which included a server crash the entire first day, drove many away. But this was nothing compared to the CU and NGE. Both were fundamental changes to the core mechanics of the game. They had nothing to do with balance and everything to do with WoW. The suits at SOE, specifically John Smedley, were disappointed with the income of the first and only Star Wars MMO to date. As a result they changed the fundamental mechanics of the game to bring it more in line with WoW in the hopes of drawing in some of that crowd. It backfired and the game hemorrhaged subs.
The point of all this was that nerfs and buffs happen in all multiplayer games. They don't kill games by themselves. Poor development decisions do.
you can sit back and wait and see what happens.
Go ahead and quit the game now
Or continue to look like a fool by continuing this nonsense
Look honestly you should not even be discussing this than untill you get the endgame that's where the balance needs to be directed.
Many good suggestions
If you are running a high-damage line-up with Poe and face another high-damage Poe line-up then the Poe that lost the turn 1 lottery is pretty much useless as you will likely be down two damagedealers and even if you can taunt, you will still play second fiddle and be late to the second round of attacks as well (as the turnmeter reduction does nothing and Poe by himself is not that tanky and does almost no damage).
The only counter I can see to Poe without running my own Poe (and therefor give up some games) is to cram as many high-speed characters into my line-up as possible to make it a reasonable chance of at least taking out someone before Poe taunts, and then run someone that can actually help dealing with the second round of attacks. You will still get a ~20 % chance of straight up losing, but then I can at least feel like I bring some skill into the game.
guys,with no offense, this is the point. For the top 10 arena player, most of the wars are decided by poe, for the top 3 arena player, it's definitely decided by Poe. Whose poe moves first, whose team will win. Thanks to the rng and meter reduction.
- Give characters a chance to resist Turn Meter Reduction checks, similar to debuff resistances.
- Remove the Turn Meter Reduction portion of Poe's Taunt entirely and replace it with something that helps him live longer, like Defense Up and HP Up, or maybe allow him to give a significant Turn Meter boost to one member of your team. (Boosting the entire team does not really solve the problem.) The fact that his Taunt already triggers team-wide Exposes a good portion of the time already makes it very powerful as it is, so I don't feel that this needs to be something outrageously powerful to keep Poe as an effective Tank. If anything, Defense/HP Up instead of the Turn Meter Reduction makes him far, far tankier and better at his job.
- Give us a character with a leader abilitiy that says something like “If an enemy would cause an ally to lose Turn Meter, gain that much Turn Meter instead. Additionally, if a skill would boost Turn Meter for any ally, increase the Turn Meter Gain by 4/5/6/7/8/9/10%” (Put a -1 cooldown in there somewhere). This would introduce an actual “counter” to Poe, at the cost of sacrificing an offensive boost like Darth Sidious or Phasma as lead. The additional Turn Meter bonus from an ally was just an idea to have this character actually serve a purpose even when facing a team that has no Turn Meter manipulation whatsoever, so it's not just a stone blank in that case. It also allows for some neat Turn Meter comp tinkering, with characters like Stormtrooper Han. Just an idea, this could be changed to anything of course.