Mace Windu Discussion and call for a buff

Replies

  • Give him anti-sith capabilities and we're good!
  • Wasn't Jedi teams all the rage before the last update?






  • I got him from a bronzium pull today. I'm at a loss of what to do with him.
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    The buff removal attack is usually only good for one thing, namely removing a taunt. For some toons, their buff removal doesn't work on ATK up buffs (thinking primarily of Ventress, not sure about Mace since I seldom get to use him). And those are pretty much the only other buff you really need to worry about.

    What I'm getting at is, buff removal is a very situational skill. Having a toon with buff removal as the only other alternative to the standard attack means that the character is often left to just standard attacking, an entire battle. That is not a good thing.
  • Make Mace like Aayala Secura and all be good. =/
  • I think my thread got re-named
  • BigBoss wrote: »
    I think my thread got re-named

    I thought you renamed it to help get it back on point.
  • Nope wasn't me, oh well no matter.

    As long as the developers are seeing it that's all I care about.
  • @AhsokaGuano Great name, lmao.

    Thanks <3 ;)

  • @BigBoss I agree. As long as the developers see this, I'm happy. I hope they notice how many of us would like a buff to Mace an that he deserves one. Currently gets laughed at and left for last.

    He doesn't have to be OP. Just respectable and useful is all we ask.
  • BigBoss wrote: »
    Nope wasn't me, oh well no matter.

    As long as the developers are seeing it that's all I care about.

    Thanks for understanding. I edited the title. I'm sure the developers are constantly evaluating existing heroes while creating new ones. It may take time to get all the details worked out. But hero updates should be released with big updates.

    A discussion title is more likely to gain a developer's attention. They do read threads and take player concerns in consideration. So try to be constructive and present your ideas clearly.

  • BigBoss wrote: »
    Nope wasn't me, oh well no matter.

    As long as the developers are seeing it that's all I care about.

    Thanks for understanding. I edited the title. I'm sure the developers are constantly evaluating existing heroes while creating new ones. It may take time to get all the details worked out. But hero updates should be released with big updates.

    A discussion title is more likely to gain a developer's attention. They do read threads and take player concerns in consideration. So try to be constructive and present your ideas clearly.

    No probs mate. It's all good.
  • Regarding the topic of changing windu to something that fits him, I do got some ideas. First i agree he is more of a attacker then a tank. He has a saber style that is by nature agressive and for that reason more used by sith then jedi. He beat sidious or put up an amazing fight atleast against a sith that matches Yoda in power.

    This bring me on the idea to revamp windu as a attacker with advantages against sith. Many sith have this ability but no version for a jedi, while windu has potential for this. Sidious is not broken but used on nearly every team. Having some skills that hinder sidious fits his story, will rise his usage and might stop the overuse of sidious and will make the meta more diverse. Again sid is not overpowered, but still overused and to much of a standard for the meta.
  • M9silent
    821 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    @SubjectZero A lot of other people have posted here as well about changing up Mace to better fit his lore. A high damage, anti sith attacker. It'd be nice, I'll admit. I would love another damaging Jedi. And they also changed up Sidious to better fit his lore, so you never know. They might do the same for Mace.

    Now, if they did change up his kit to fit his lore, if they did make him anti sith and a damaging attacker, how would they do that? What could they do to make him different? Without making him overpowered? Give him bonus damage against sith (Ima and Eeth have bonus dmg against Droids or Maul against Jedi). What kind of abilities would he get now? Would shatterpoint be implemented somehow and if so, how?

    Personally, I don't mind his current kit, even if it isn't lore perfect. As I said earlier, a few adjustments and he'd be good. AOE dispel with a taunt on his 2. Up his potency to make it more effective and I think he'd be good. But a lot of people want him changed to better suit his lore.

    So, if you want his long lore perfect, how could it be done without making him super OP? That question is for anyone with an answer. I'd genuinely like to know.

    Edited for spelling. Phone made all 'sith' into 'with'.....
  • Well the extra damage vs sith would be good enough lore wise imo. The AOE dispell idea or maybe a passive/extra leader benefit in form of anti healing immunity would be good targeting sids more specificly. Adding extra dodge chance or a 100% counter chance against sith might also be ideas. No idea if any of these are overpowered, just sharing some ideas. I think it can be done without making him overpowered. Just might need some brainstorming and idea tweaking. I do have to say good job for being a critic on the matter. The more specific we get, the more serious we'll be taken hopefully.
  • Push2Stops
    489 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    BigBoss wrote: »
    Thats pretty much the only way to make him any good though imo. Problem is it's too difficult to get Ima-Gun Di until late in the game. Very disappointed tbh.

    I'm a new player but I opened Ima-Gun Di early and he's my highest character. Mace would be easy to farm, is he worth it in the early game?

    Basic Attack
    It seems Windu would have more opportunities to Defence Up with Ima-Gun Di's Counter Chance Leader Ability. Plus, Ima-Gun Di's Special Attack would Defence Up Windu as well so with all that D-Up wouldn't Windu be constantly dishing out powerful attacks?
    Leader Ability
    This seems like the best part of this character but if Ima-Gun Di is the way to make Windu good, then isn't this lost?
    Special Ability
    This seems especially bad/broken. Smite has no indication that it will not work, so if it isn't it's being resisted. What good is Debuffing Tank without a taunt, with less than high health, and low potency? And only one target every 3 turns at it's highest level?? Broken.
    Unique Ability
    I never understand these types of abilities. Does this make him especially good with Anakin???

    TL;DR - If someone comes across Ima-Gun Di early in the game, is Mace Windu a valuable Light Side party member? How about Anakin?
    Post edited by Push2Stops on
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  • @Push2Stops So, you got lucky like me early and got Ima Gun Di huh? Congratulations. I really like him. A lot. Only 10 more shards till he's at 5*. And now to business....

    Well, I really like Mace when paired with Ima Gun. As stated, he will always have def up. Also, with Ima Gun's leader, he counters a lot, doing more damage. I run an all Jedi squad, with Ima as lead.

    Mace has been useful enough with his buff removal, but its not great. We've suggested making it AOE. You're right about his taunt. He needs one. Just smack it onto his debuff as well.

    Now, should you farm him? I'd love to say yes, but I have to say no. I run him in my all Jedi squad. Holds a top 50-28 spot in the arena with him. Clears GW just fine. But he is underwhelming and underperforming. There are much better heroes for you to farm and use. Trust me. I'm too stubborn to remove him, but if I wasn't I'd use someone else. So I suggest you not waste time and energy on him. Unless you want to farm him in hopes of a buff.
  • @SubjectZero I could see some passive benefits for fighting Sith being good for his unique. Maybe bonus damage or crit chance specifcally against Sith (such as Maul)? Or maybe something really unique, involving shatterpoint debuff? Maybe it only applies on Sith or something. Darth Vader has a basic attack that can't be resisted or evaded by Jedi and Sidious has bonus dodge, so its not out of the realm of possibilities.

    So, what kind of abilities could we give his kit if its made into anti Sith? A standard AOE with the shatterpoint debuff on Sith enemies (shatterpoint gives bonus damage to Sith?) Maybe a basic attack that can't be resisted or dodged by Sith and applies offense up or speed up on Mace when attacking a Sith? For his passive, he could maybe recieve damage reduction, dodge chance, tenacity, or bonus damage to Sith? As for his leader ability, I'm at a loss for what it could be. As of now, I like it. 20% offense, 9% crit chance and at lvl 8 5% max health healed on crit (all only for Jedi). It seems pretty useful. But if his kit got revamped, what could his leader be?
  • Just some thoughts on what his kit redesign could be. I've posted my ideas for his current kit earlier. Let me know what you guys think :smile:
  • M9silent wrote: »
    @Push2Stops So, you got lucky like me early and got Ima Gun Di huh? Congratulations. I really like him. A lot. Only 10 more shards till he's at 5*. And now to business....

    Well, I really like Mace when paired with Ima Gun. As stated, he will always have def up. Also, with Ima Gun's leader, he counters a lot, doing more damage. I run an all Jedi squad, with Ima as lead.

    Mace has been useful enough with his buff removal, but its not great. We've suggested making it AOE. You're right about his taunt. He needs one. Just smack it onto his debuff as well.

    Now, should you farm him? I'd love to say yes, but I have to say no. I run him in my all Jedi squad. Holds a top 50-28 spot in the arena with him. Clears GW just fine. But he is underwhelming and underperforming. There are much better heroes for you to farm and use. Trust me. I'm too stubborn to remove him, but if I wasn't I'd use someone else. So I suggest you not waste time and energy on him. Unless you want to farm him in hopes of a buff.

    Sounds like the Debuffing Tank needs a buff first.

    Thanks, very thorough!
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  • Did anyone else skip over all of the GoH talk to just read the lore debate? I enjoyed it very much.
  • I updated my opening post on the front page people. Let me know what you think.
  • Totally agree that Mace could really use some editing/buffing.

    Windu is one of the SW best legends IMO....to use another EA game as an example, he feels like a Gretzky thats set at an "overall" skill of 55 of 99, when he should be 90+ no matter if its his retirement season.
  • stupidfatfool
    715 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    New Recommended Skills for Mace Windu:
    Skill 1: (Basic) Deal Physical damage to target enemy with 55% chance to attack a second time and 45% chance to attack a third time. If Mace has any positive status effects, he will deal damage one additional time. This chance is doubled if Mace Windu has Advantage. This chance is also doubled if Mace Windu is controlled by AI.

    Skill 2: (Special) Deal Special damage to target enemy and call an ally to Assist. The Assisting ally deals 75% more damage. The assisting ally's damage is doubled if Mace Windu is controlled by AI.

    Skill 3: (Leader) All allies are immune to debuffs, and gain Advantage, Offense Up, and Speed Up for 3 turns when any ally takes damage.

    Skill 4: (Unique) Mace Windu's attacks have a 45% chance to stun the target for 1 turn, a 40% chance to stun a random enemy for 1 turn, a 35% chance to stun another 3rd random enemy for 1 turn, a 30% chance to stun a 4th random enemy for 1 turn, and a 25% chance to stun all enemies for 1 turn. This chance is doubled if Mace Windu above 10% health.

    Skill 5: (Passive) Mace Windu gains 20% health and 25% offense for each living ally.

    Thanks!
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    I like the suggestions, @BigBoss ! I could think of other skills too, to go better with the overall "feel" of Jedi, and their way of doing combat.

    Just making Mace into an attacker with damage bonus vs Sith would probably not add very much, as all the Sith today are rather squishy health wise to begin with. It's their dodge rate that makes them hard, not that the Jedi have weak attacks (Luminara, QGJ fgs)

    Even if we had a Mace who dealt damage like Darth Maul, it'd still be the usual coin toss whether he could hit Sid or not. And he would be just as susceptible as Luminara to getting stun locked by a much quicker Dooku.

    I've given this a lot of thought lately and I'd suggest a somewhat different skill set for Mace, focusing on his lore and giving consideration to how Jedi are portrayed in this game.

    MACE REVAMPED
    4825132-7860147587-mace_.jpg
    "The oppression of the Sith will never return! You, my lord, have lost!"

    Regular attack - Righteous wrath: Regular damage attack, with increased chance of critical hit against Sith (and Jango Fett, if he's ever included :P)

    Special ability - Shatterpoint
    "I sometimes can see the weak places in an opponent—shatterpoints where the unbreakable can be broken."

    Mace debuffs the everliving **** out of one single opponent, hitting it with Def/Atk/Speed down, Ability lock and/or Stun, in addition to dealing regular damage.

    Passive ability - Master of Vaapad
    "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light."

    Mace grows stronger as the battle becomes more desperate, feeding off the negative energies of the battle to improve his bladework. At 75% HP Mace gains Crit chance up, at 50% HP he gains Speed up, and at 25% HP he gains ATK up. In addition, Mace randomly dispels debuffs on himself, gaining a small amount of HP for every debuff dispelled.

    This would be a skillset that makes Mace stand out. He can seriously cripple a single enemy toon, and has a chance to actually benefit from the primarily DS tactics of dots, healing immunity and stuns. And he will go down fighting.

    Meanwhile, he will not have a reliable self heal, as not all opponents lean heavily on debuffs. But the ones who do don't regularly have many counters in the present meta. His skills would be overall relatively useful, and still offset by the fact that he needs to lose health to grow stronger. He is geared to be a strictly 1 vs 1 toon, so as not to break the game with too powerful AOE buffs or debuffs.

    Sorry for the wall of text. What do you guys and gals think?
    Post edited by Nonemo on
  • Nonemo wrote: »
    I like the suggestions, @BigBoss ! I could think of other skills too, to go better with the overall "feel" of Jedi, and their way of doing combat.

    Just making Mace into an attacker with damage bonus vs Sith would probably not add very much, as all the Sith today are rather squishy health wise to begin with. It's their dodge rate that makes them hard, not that the Jedi have weak attacks (Luminara, QGJ fgs)

    Even if we had a Mace who dealt damage like Darth Maul, it'd still be the usual coin toss whether he could hit Sid or not. And he would be just as susceptible as Luminara to getting stun locked by a much quicker Dooku.

    I've given this a lot of thought lately and I'd suggest a somewhat different skill set for Mace, focusing on his lore and giving consideration to how Jedi are portrayed in this game.

    MACE REVAMPED
    4825132-7860147587-mace_.jpg
    "The oppression of the Sith will never return! You, my lord, have lost!"

    Regular attack - Righteous wrath: Regular damage attack, with increased chance of critical hit against Sith (and Jango Fett, if he's ever included :P)

    Special ability - Shatterpoint: Mace debuffs the everliving **** out of one single opponent, hitting it with Def/Atk/Speed down, Ability lock and/or Stun, in addition to dealing regular damage.

    Passive ability - Master of Vapaad: Mace grows stronger as the battle becomes more desperate, feeding off the negative energies of the battle to improve his bladework. At 75% HP Mace gains Crit chance up, at 50% HP he gains Speed up, and at 25% HP he gains ATK up. In addition, Mace randomly dispels debuffs on himself, gaining a small amount of HP for every debuff dispelled.

    This would be a skillset that makes Mace stand out. He can seriously cripple a single enemy toon, and has a chance to actually benefit from the primarily DS tactics of dots, healing immunity and stuns. And he will go down fighting.

    Sorry for the wall of text. What do you guys and gals think?

    Really liking the shatterpoint and the Master of Vapaad abilities they sound crazy good mate. Great suggestions!

    At this point anything would be an improvement for him haha
  • @BigBoss @Nonemo I really enjoy the suggestions guys. Great work. Hopefully they take some of the ideas here and make him better. Hopefully they also agree he deserves a buff.

    I mean, lets be honest. No one is calling for a Jedi Knight Guardian buff. Or an Ugnaut buff, because no one cares about those unnamed heroes. But this is Mace Windu. I would not mind a simple buff to his current kit (if they don't feel like revamping him), but to be honest, I'd really like the suggestions here to be implemented. I don't want Mace OP. There is no point in making him awesome just to nerf him. But he definitely deserves a buff of some sort.

    Id love to see his shatterpoint implemented. I'd love to see him have some anti Sith ability (while it wouldn't be meta changing, he is an anti Sith Jedi thanks to Vaapad mastery). It'd also be nice to have a nice strong Jedi attacker. They aren't the weakest synergy, but most of the individual chars aren't the hardest hitters.

    It's be nice if we could get a bit of official word on the matter. What do you say @EA_Jesse @CG_JohnSalera . Maybe just a smiley face or something to recognize us here? We've been good :smile:
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    Did... Did I kill the thread or something?
  • Nonemo wrote: »
    Did... Did I kill the thread or something?

    Haha not your fault. You came with some good ideas. I just now read the OP suggestions. Subtle but good! Stupidfatfool his suggestion (are they his? Atleast the one he quoted) seem a bit OP on first glance. Your suggestions seem quite good too, little more drastic since they add skills, which i find ok, but I see them changing abilities faster then adding them. Ofcourse some of your suggestions can be fused in his exsisting attacks.
  • Having characters that are great against sith will help the meta quite a bit I recon. There just seems to be far too many Sidious/Dooku characters out there with no weaknesses at this point.

    Just want to have some variety out there is all.
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