Does anyone know the formula(s) needed to calculate turn order with sith assassin under zaul lead? I am trying to figure out what mods I need to use to ensure a specific open sequence.
Base speed x 1.25 is what its supposed to be, seems to be accurate when Ive used it.
Does anyone know the formula(s) needed to calculate turn order with sith assassin under zaul lead? I am trying to figure out what mods I need to use to ensure a specific open sequence.
Base speed x 1.25 is what its supposed to be, seems to be accurate when Ive used it.
This is accurate. It's also equivalent to:
(Base Speed)/(0.80)
Sometimes people don't understand where this comes from... if you start with 20% TM, then you only need to fill 80% TM in the opening round... so if
(Base Speed/1.0 full turn meter) is your very basic Speed,
then (Base Speed/0.80 full turn meter) is what you need to calculate speed if you start with 20% TM.
Remember, if you divide by a number smaller than one (0.80 in this case), the top ratio goes up.
Using rules of reciprocation, dividing a number by 0.80 is the same thing as multiplying that same number by 1.25
So in reality, it's best to understand the division method. This way, you can calculate the equivalent speed for ANY toon that starts with TM. Just use the equation:
I've been running Nihilus L, Vader, Sidious, Dooku, Maul. Haven't got Palpatine yet to experiment with, but this squad has been the I've had so far. Sometimes throw Savage in there but not as effective for me....
@Darth_Jay77@Dwinkelm. Thanks that part is fairly easy, I was more stuck with determining how to get maul to have 100% tm after sith assassin uses dark shroud yet ensures nihilus gets as close to 99% tm. I want me team to go in a specific order on their first turn.
@Darth_Jay77@Dwinkelm. Thanks that part is fairly easy, I was more stuck with determining how to get maul to have 100% tm after sith assassin uses dark shroud yet ensures nihilus gets as close to 99% tm. I want me team to go in a specific order on their first turn.
I wanted to know this too but was unsure what the formula is, an answer would be very much appreciated thank you
@Darth_Jay77@Dwinkelm. Thanks that part is fairly easy, I was more stuck with determining how to get maul to have 100% tm after sith assassin uses dark shroud yet ensures nihilus gets as close to 99% tm. I want me team to go in a specific order on their first turn.
I wanted to know this too but was unsure what the formula is, an answer would be very much appreciated thank you
Determining an exact formula is a little beyond my scope in math. As 6The6Bull6 implies, he wants DN to fall short of 100% TM after SA uses Dark Shroud in an attempt for Maul to go first and apply debuffs. When characters reach 100% TM simultaneously, then RNG decides who moves first, so this would be a good strategy if easily predictable. But it's both hard to predict and so difficult to execute, but lets investigate.
Using guess-and-check, you could plug in some numbers for both to see the difference in relative speeds. Just use the same formula for each toon. If both Maul and DN are going to be gaining 56% TM in total, the formula for relative speed will be (Base Speed/0.44) for each toon. Now let's use the hypothetical number of 1000 to simulate a full turn meter (you could use one, ten, a million, the math will all turn out the same).
For Maul relative speed: (base speed/0.44) = 1000
For DN relative speed: (base speed/0.44) = 1000
Once you have the two relative speeds, see how many "cycles" it would take each to get to 1000. Make sure that Maul is at least one full integer above DN.
Example:
Maul relative speed = 300
DN relative speed = 275
Maul moves in 1000/300 = 3.33 cycles
DN moves in 1000/275 = 3.63 cycles
Difference = 0.30 cycles, or not nearly enough difference to garauntee Maul moves first.
As you keep guessing-and-checking numbers to get to 1.0 cycles, eventually you figure out that DN would have to be incredibly slow, to the point of extreme liability, in order to guarantee the turn order you seek.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1yokxSs3yN5azBKZDhiU19YMDg/view?usp=sharing
i guess that this should work,
enter your maul speed and it shows you the max speed you can use on nihi, round down to make maul go first
or enter your nihi speed to see the minimun maul speed needed, round up to make maul go first
Updated: now i think it should be working properly
You can play with Sass/others's speed to know the speed needed for others to create an attacking order
I see the plan but I feel like it stunts him for the rest of the encounter... he has to be pretty **** slow. He's your dispel on team too so if you get locked into taunts with such low speed he's gonna be less useful
@Durrun I get your point but i feel that if a team was almost guaranteed to have dazed, cool down increased and stunned 3 or so of the opposition this is a VERY strong position to start in. And the tm gain from the zaul lead would mean his low spread wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But you could be right, its definitely worth a try tho I feel like it could be the way to go just because its less RNG dependant.
I fully support you testing this out good sir I just couldn't get it to happen and still have him at a comfortable speed to stay relevant at turn 2 and beyond... also I found myself layering the cooldown and stun on the same toons, while the stun helps nihilus get his big move the cooldown reduc went mostly unused since the character was stunned and couldn't act anyway
You are probably right tbh, its a good point about the stun over lapping. could still help with toons like sunfac or others which basics still have a big impact but those toons are becoming fewer and further between. Also apart from the tm boost I'm not too sold on Sith assassins kit.
Still I will probably give it a go and report back, I'm a few weeks off getting nihilus and assassin up to speed tho.
I see the plan but I feel like it stunts him for the rest of the encounter... he has to be pretty **** slow. He's your dispel on team too so if you get locked into taunts with such low speed he's gonna be less useful
Well my plan is zaul, Sith assassin, palp, nihilus, Gk. After the opening barrage the enemy should be forced to use basics and Gk will use negotiator and give all sith retribution, in my gw testing this has proved very effective at removing taunt and anything else that might happen to come up and reduces cd of force drain rapidly (have used it back to back). But that was with a regular maul lead the real problem comes with the extra tm at the start. I think I will try this team but just crank everyone's through the roof and let RNG decide.
I see the plan but I feel like it stunts him for the rest of the encounter... he has to be pretty **** slow. He's your dispel on team too so if you get locked into taunts with such low speed he's gonna be less useful
Well my plan is zaul, Sith assassin, palp, nihilus, Gk. After the opening barrage the enemy should be forced to use basics and Gk will use negotiator and give all sith retribution, in my gw testing this has proved very effective at removing taunt and anything else that might happen to come up and reduces cd of force drain rapidly (have used it back to back). But that was with a regular maul lead the real problem comes with the extra tm at the start. I think I will try this team but just crank everyone's through the roof and let RNG decide.
That's probably the best bet. In the past I had tried to control turn order with ST Han with an Ackbar lead to try and control TG and it didn't work well. Then somebody that actually did it, told me I had to slow my characters way down. I don't think that's a good thing with a Maul squad. You gain such an advantage on turn 1 with everybody going right away, then if you get a couple stuns, dazes, and DN's 2nd ability, you go into turn 2 with a good advantage that you don't want to lose momentum. The only time it could be tricky is if Rex lead makes a comeback and you want Maul going before Palp.
@Darth_Jay77@Dwinkelm. Thanks that part is fairly easy, I was more stuck with determining how to get maul to have 100% tm after sith assassin uses dark shroud yet ensures nihilus gets as close to 99% tm. I want me team to go in a specific order on their first turn.
I believe a sith would have to have less than 70% of sith assassin's speed to have less than 100% TM after the first use of dark shroud.
@Darth_Jay77@Dwinkelm. Thanks that part is fairly easy, I was more stuck with determining how to get maul to have 100% tm after sith assassin uses dark shroud yet ensures nihilus gets as close to 99% tm. I want me team to go in a specific order on their first turn.
I believe a sith would have to have less than 70% of sith assassin's speed to have less than 100% TM after the first use of dark shroud.
Ugh, no thanks; that's totally not worth it. I'm not going to drop my Palp from 230 to 170 just for the perfect 1st round turn order. Get wrecked after that first turn.
@Dark_Helmet152 no in fact since she's under maul lead she starts advantage... so her first move will grant 3buffs worth or 36% TM... and herein lies the issue... I don't think it's possible to make other sith that slow... under nihilus sure you can probably tank some speed and get that order at 24% but at 36.... your assassin would have to be 290+ and others have no secondary. Roughly.
@Dark_Helmet152 no in fact since she's under maul lead she starts advantage... so her first move will grant 3buffs worth or 36% TM... and herein lies the issue... I don't think it's possible to make other sith that slow... under nihilus sure you can probably tank some speed and get that order at 24% but at 36.... your assassin would have to be 290+ and others have no secondary. Roughly.
They would have to have less than 55% of assassin's speed then.
Really really struggling with my sith team vs Rex (l), GK, Chirrut, Baze and Palp.
Zaul's mechanics mean all of your opening moves are guaranteed crits, which feeds the opponent turn meter via Rex lead.
That means unless you've been lucky enough to stun all three cleansers before they've taken a turn, all of the negative status effects you've just applied are cleansed and then they are looking free to apply tenacity up plus retribution right from the start.
Using Sith Assassin adds an additional complication, because the tm boost from her plus Zaul fills up all of your sith's turn meter to full, so it's random who goes first.
hello, i need some help with the choice of my sith team
the problem is that i'm lvl 80 and dont have any zetas..and that wont change the next few weeks
Maul 5*
Savage 7*
Kylo 7*
Vader 6*
Nihil 3*
Sid 7*
EP 6*
Boba 6*
can i use Maul as leader even without his zeta? or would EP be better?
maybe something like: EP (L) - Savage - Sid - Kylo/Vader - Nihil? or a boba L - Savage - Vader - Nihil/Kylo - Sid
thanks
I think Maul and Vader leads definitely require zeta or their value is diminished. Sid might not be a bad lead, Nihilus lead still has value without zeta, Palp lead with Vader is solid too.
Really really struggling with my sith team vs Rex (l), GK, Chirrut, Baze and Palp.
Zaul's mechanics mean all of your opening moves are guaranteed crits, which feeds the opponent turn meter via Rex lead.
That means unless you've been lucky enough to stun all three cleansers before they've taken a turn, all of the negative status effects you've just applied are cleansed and then they are looking free to apply tenacity up plus retribution right from the start.
Using Sith Assassin adds an additional complication, because the tm boost from her plus Zaul fills up all of your sith's turn meter to full, so it's random who goes first.
Your Zaul team will not best Rex lead, not ever, especially paired with two other strong cleansers. If you're insistent on running Sith, then put a Zeta on Vader and use him as lead in this particular scenario. The lack of crits, TM reduction, and insane DoTs is the recipe for Sith VS Cleanse. Throw Boba under Zader against Chaze/GK/Rex/Barriss and watch all those HoT's/buffs become a major liability.
Rex teams are tricky but I beat them regularly with Zaul, zavage, Baze, Emp and SA. Yes the opening moves feed some tm to Rex but the one two stun and maul daze keeps him out for long enough to kill before he buffs. Even when he does get it off Baze wipes it and worst case sith are usually tanky enough to survive a few rounds and savage allows me to blow up one I get to half
I don't even know what I want to do with my sith there are so many good options. Running nihilus lead right now and Dooku is broken under his lead, has already gotten me out of some Bigtime jams. I know ST will also be great under him, I like using yoda with the sith as well for tenacity up. I'm debating nihilus team with Dooku, ST, Yoda, and Palp or Zader with Palp, yoda, Zidious, and either Dooku or nihilus. Does anyone know if dookus zeta works under a nihilus lead? I wouldn't think it would but if it does he'd be even more broken!
Also working on Maul though he's a little behind the rest of the, feel like he can definitely be an option on Nihilus team and his zeta lead is good as well though I don't have great tanks so I don't think I'll do that one for awhile
@Tommyyyyxo glad you're enjoying it... nihilis has some of the same utility as boba as the turn 1 ability block, the key difference being that boba is significantly faster base speed. Nihilus is powerful but a lot of that power is dependent on how fast you can get him...
@xReDeMpx looks good bud, I was swapping between kenobi and Baze on my sith squad for a while. Eventually decided to stick with Baze. It's not that Kenobi is worse but that I don't run nihilus so I needed the dispel
Replies
Base speed x 1.25 is what its supposed to be, seems to be accurate when Ive used it.
This is accurate. It's also equivalent to:
(Base Speed)/(0.80)
Sometimes people don't understand where this comes from... if you start with 20% TM, then you only need to fill 80% TM in the opening round... so if
(Base Speed/1.0 full turn meter) is your very basic Speed,
then (Base Speed/0.80 full turn meter) is what you need to calculate speed if you start with 20% TM.
Remember, if you divide by a number smaller than one (0.80 in this case), the top ratio goes up.
Using rules of reciprocation, dividing a number by 0.80 is the same thing as multiplying that same number by 1.25
So in reality, it's best to understand the division method. This way, you can calculate the equivalent speed for ANY toon that starts with TM. Just use the equation:
(Base Speed/Total % Turn Meter Needed)
I wanted to know this too but was unsure what the formula is, an answer would be very much appreciated thank you
Determining an exact formula is a little beyond my scope in math. As 6The6Bull6 implies, he wants DN to fall short of 100% TM after SA uses Dark Shroud in an attempt for Maul to go first and apply debuffs. When characters reach 100% TM simultaneously, then RNG decides who moves first, so this would be a good strategy if easily predictable. But it's both hard to predict and so difficult to execute, but lets investigate.
Using guess-and-check, you could plug in some numbers for both to see the difference in relative speeds. Just use the same formula for each toon. If both Maul and DN are going to be gaining 56% TM in total, the formula for relative speed will be (Base Speed/0.44) for each toon. Now let's use the hypothetical number of 1000 to simulate a full turn meter (you could use one, ten, a million, the math will all turn out the same).
For Maul relative speed: (base speed/0.44) = 1000
For DN relative speed: (base speed/0.44) = 1000
Once you have the two relative speeds, see how many "cycles" it would take each to get to 1000. Make sure that Maul is at least one full integer above DN.
Example:
Maul relative speed = 300
DN relative speed = 275
Maul moves in 1000/300 = 3.33 cycles
DN moves in 1000/275 = 3.63 cycles
Difference = 0.30 cycles, or not nearly enough difference to garauntee Maul moves first.
As you keep guessing-and-checking numbers to get to 1.0 cycles, eventually you figure out that DN would have to be incredibly slow, to the point of extreme liability, in order to guarantee the turn order you seek.
i guess that this should work,
enter your maul speed and it shows you the max speed you can use on nihi, round down to make maul go first
or enter your nihi speed to see the minimun maul speed needed, round up to make maul go first
Updated: now i think it should be working properly
You can play with Sass/others's speed to know the speed needed for others to create an attacking order
@Durrun I get your point but i feel that if a team was almost guaranteed to have dazed, cool down increased and stunned 3 or so of the opposition this is a VERY strong position to start in. And the tm gain from the zaul lead would mean his low spread wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But you could be right, its definitely worth a try tho I feel like it could be the way to go just because its less RNG dependant.
Still I will probably give it a go and report back, I'm a few weeks off getting nihilus and assassin up to speed tho.
Well my plan is zaul, Sith assassin, palp, nihilus, Gk. After the opening barrage the enemy should be forced to use basics and Gk will use negotiator and give all sith retribution, in my gw testing this has proved very effective at removing taunt and anything else that might happen to come up and reduces cd of force drain rapidly (have used it back to back). But that was with a regular maul lead the real problem comes with the extra tm at the start. I think I will try this team but just crank everyone's through the roof and let RNG decide.
That's probably the best bet. In the past I had tried to control turn order with ST Han with an Ackbar lead to try and control TG and it didn't work well. Then somebody that actually did it, told me I had to slow my characters way down. I don't think that's a good thing with a Maul squad. You gain such an advantage on turn 1 with everybody going right away, then if you get a couple stuns, dazes, and DN's 2nd ability, you go into turn 2 with a good advantage that you don't want to lose momentum. The only time it could be tricky is if Rex lead makes a comeback and you want Maul going before Palp.
Ugh, no thanks; that's totally not worth it. I'm not going to drop my Palp from 230 to 170 just for the perfect 1st round turn order. Get wrecked after that first turn.
Zaul's mechanics mean all of your opening moves are guaranteed crits, which feeds the opponent turn meter via Rex lead.
That means unless you've been lucky enough to stun all three cleansers before they've taken a turn, all of the negative status effects you've just applied are cleansed and then they are looking free to apply tenacity up plus retribution right from the start.
Using Sith Assassin adds an additional complication, because the tm boost from her plus Zaul fills up all of your sith's turn meter to full, so it's random who goes first.
the problem is that i'm lvl 80 and dont have any zetas..and that wont change the next few weeks
Maul 5*
Savage 7*
Kylo 7*
Vader 6*
Nihil 3*
Sid 7*
EP 6*
Boba 6*
can i use Maul as leader even without his zeta? or would EP be better?
maybe something like: EP (L) - Savage - Sid - Kylo/Vader - Nihil? or a boba L - Savage - Vader - Nihil/Kylo - Sid
thanks
I think Maul and Vader leads definitely require zeta or their value is diminished. Sid might not be a bad lead, Nihilus lead still has value without zeta, Palp lead with Vader is solid too.
Your Zaul team will not best Rex lead, not ever, especially paired with two other strong cleansers. If you're insistent on running Sith, then put a Zeta on Vader and use him as lead in this particular scenario. The lack of crits, TM reduction, and insane DoTs is the recipe for Sith VS Cleanse. Throw Boba under Zader against Chaze/GK/Rex/Barriss and watch all those HoT's/buffs become a major liability.
Hope this helps!!
Also working on Maul though he's a little behind the rest of the, feel like he can definitely be an option on Nihilus team and his zeta lead is good as well though I don't have great tanks so I don't think I'll do that one for awhile
Question - is it worth gearing nihilus just to replace boba?
Until I have GK unlocked this is my current team that I have no problem getting 1-5 in my dec shard if I actually do my daily battles
@xReDeMpx looks good bud, I was swapping between kenobi and Baze on my sith squad for a while. Eventually decided to stick with Baze. It's not that Kenobi is worse but that I don't run nihilus so I needed the dispel