I am 100% on CG’s side on this post. Sith team is great and my shard is full of Sith teams now. The player base has been mean and salty, hyperbolic for quite a while, regarding the new Sith Raid and JTR event return. The players need to calm down and learn this game more, posting doesn’t make you “care” about the game. Learn the strategies and find the bugs, then give comprehensive thoughts with Reasons are the way you “care” about the game.
@CG_RyDiggs the ironic thing is that your post did more to harm the promotion of this game than the OP's
His was just an usual rant that would have been quickly forgotten.
But you just chose to belittle him by disecting his whole post in a not so friendly way. If you were really interested in more concrete feedback why not ask him in a nice way?
It is interesting that you spend a lot of time of answering him and others in this thread whereas you somehow are always "just out of the door and talk to you later" when it comes to long and serious threads that discuss problems in the game like on the game content philosophy thread.
I personally find it revealing that the only thing you seem to be able to think about when hearing "invest" is $$$$. To people that actually play this game "invest" means so much more. We invest time, thought and emotion into this. For me someone telling me not to invest in xyz simply means "concentrate on other areas" and not "do not spend". But I guess what can we expect from people stating "the pit is 3 year old content" and not knowing what "challenge gear" means. If people know very little about the game and seemingly don't play it how can they actually relate to those that do?
And then this: "EVEN constructive criticism!". Just wow, need I say more? Any company that strives to improve their product should be extremely happy about constructive criticism. But you put a big capital EVEN in front of it. Again pretty revealing from my perspective.
As you invited the OP to rephrase his points I invite you to
a) actually learn about the game, maybe even play it so that you can be a an effective ambassador of the game and understand more of the issues that the players in this forum talk about.
b) spend your time not belittling and telling off posters but rather answer to the valid concerns voiced in many threads and also try to communicate ideas on how to improve the game back to the people doing the actual game development. That way the game might become better and more successful.
That would lead in my opinion to a much improved promotion of the game which is what you claim you want. Spedning time telling people off the way you do here however just constitutes a waste of your employer's resources that could be better used otherwise.
There are no REAL concerns in th original post. 80% are pure complaints with ZERO evidence support. It would be kind enough not to just delete this useless whine
If You will get zeta I want one too. I need to put zeta on Veers. Btw, I played games where You could easilly spend thousends of dollars. The difference was that in those games players were receiving constantly huge amounts of gifts, rewards were always nice (not like in the raids - gear challange that You dont need), if there was an event there was no complaints about rewards.....and regardless of this players were still spending money. In this game You do the event and You can have one mod grey 4dots as a reward. Developers of this game should play different games to have expierience of different mode of greed based game. CG can be greedy but You can be greedy in a smarter way. You dont have to be eaten by greed completely. Also this nonsense about questions answers: Carrie I think is out of her/ his mind, as always those replies are like no answer at all. It smells politics and manipulation. I still remember this lie about increase of rewards in TB, increase by lowering the number of TB per month from 4 to 3. I remeber about character cadence statements which were not fulfilled. Talzin is the same topic. If those people can one day say one thing and next day do the opposite how to belive in their statements? One of the replies was about bronziums: answer - ally currency was about tournaments.... What is that? Ally currency was in the game before tournaments. Carrie first read your answers, than edit, than read again and next thing go to someone who knows the story of this game and than edit again. After that You can post. Also about quality, regardless of how hard your team works your quality control before updates is not so great. Maybe You should hire players like McMole to test game. Smart guy and for sure he could save You.
I find all of this very disappointing. Especially the fact that a dev/manager would ever consider talking to a customer in the manner that he did. There are two solid rules to follow in business or you will be fired or bankrupt. Rule number one: the customer is always right. Rule number two: when in doubt refer to rule one. Pretty simple. It’s no wonder the community is so up in arms. Good luck digging out of this Grand Canyon sized hole you have dug yourself. Also....adding in your apology as an edit only shows that you have been scolded by the people that use OUR money to pay YOUR check. Consider yourself fortunate for still being employed. As a business owner you would have been terminated immediately due to conduct detrimental. Consider yourself lucky.
I find all of this very disappointing. Especially the fact that a dev/manager would ever consider talking to a customer in the manner that he did. There are two solid rules to follow in business or you will be fired or bankrupt. Rule number one: the customer is always right. Rule number two: when in doubt refer to rule one. Pretty simple. It’s no wonder the community is so up in arms. Good luck digging out of this Grand Canyon sized hole you have dug yourself. Also....adding in your apology as an edit only shows that you have been scolded by the people that use OUR money to pay YOUR check. Consider yourself fortunate for still being employed. As a business owner you would have been terminated immediately due to conduct detrimental. Consider yourself lucky.
His speaking was fine. Customers are not always right, that's just dumb.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
I find all of this very disappointing. Especially the fact that a dev/manager would ever consider talking to a customer in the manner that he did. There are two solid rules to follow in business or you will be fired or bankrupt. Rule number one: the customer is always right. Rule number two: when in doubt refer to rule one. Pretty simple. It’s no wonder the community is so up in arms. Good luck digging out of this Grand Canyon sized hole you have dug yourself. Also....adding in your apology as an edit only shows that you have been scolded by the people that use OUR money to pay YOUR check. Consider yourself fortunate for still being employed. As a business owner you would have been terminated immediately due to conduct detrimental. Consider yourself lucky.
His speaking was fine. Customers are not always right, that's just dumb.
No, dude, you're misunderstanding the rule. The rule that customers are always right means that even when customers are wrong... they're right.
The field of battle is like the mongoose. Slow to joviality, but thirsty for morning sunshine.
-Sun Tzu
While CG_RyDiggs (purposely leaving out the @) point that toxic posts are not helpful is correct, I still find those coming to his defense surprising. Yeah a lot of people need to chill with the toxicity but that still doesn’t justify a paid moderator becoming part of the problem. I’ve worked in software development. I understand having to put lipstick on a pig or calling a bug a feature.
There is no question the sith raid has disappointed and even if you understand the need to nerf expose that wasn’t a pretty solution to a raid people were already disappointed with.
I find all of this very disappointing. Especially the fact that a dev/manager would ever consider talking to a customer in the manner that he did. There are two solid rules to follow in business or you will be fired or bankrupt. Rule number one: the customer is always right. Rule number two: when in doubt refer to rule one. Pretty simple. It’s no wonder the community is so up in arms. Good luck digging out of this Grand Canyon sized hole you have dug yourself. Also....adding in your apology as an edit only shows that you have been scolded by the people that use OUR money to pay YOUR check. Consider yourself fortunate for still being employed. As a business owner you would have been terminated immediately due to conduct detrimental. Consider yourself lucky.
His speaking was fine. Customers are not always right, that's just dumb.
No, dude, you're misunderstanding the rule. The rule that customers are always right means that even when customers are wrong... they're right.
Obviously, customers often do not have a clue what they are talking about. Yet, the rules says „customer ist king / customer is always right“. It means even if you know the customer has no idea what he is talking about, you smile and try to be helpful; like explaining it step by step again.
And no offense intended, but I personally feel quite unimportant as customer in this forum.
1. We as customers have to take extra steps/measures to report bugs. Extra account etc. I just don‘t see why I as consumer should do extra work for the mods/devs instead of the natural choice (this IS the official SWGoH forum...)
2. Whenever I or others have voiced doubts or opinions about decisions, we have been patronized like little children with the "You will understand when you‘ve grown older" attitude. That‘s in my opinion not a very professsional way of communication. You make consumers doubt your decisions by not providing appropriate explanation as to way changes happen. (See addendum for the perfect example of this at the end of this post)
3. If something is bugged for ages, it‘s not getting touched. If it is new and might impact the value of new content it gets hotfixed within a week.
That‘s why I personally stopped bothering. It feels like there are only empty phrases of consumer acknowledgement and EA/CG does whatever they want.
Addendum:
Perfect example may be the expose nerf. You did not communicate it at all and have been like „it is better for you and your future, we are not going to tell you why, but we‘re just going to do it“.
There are many issues with expose that -to my knowledge- have not been addressed at all.
Why was there a need to nerf expose throughout all raids and all raids to come?
I only have the number for HPit atm:
A drop from roughly 1200 to 600. why was there a need to do that?
I imagine HAAT is like a drop from 2800 to 1400 not that massive either.
I understand the change for T6 STR though, were expose dealt like 40.000 if I recall correctly.
What happened there was an unannounced devalue of an asset I partly bought for the sole reason (which I still cannot believe no one might have noticed) that the Raid was too easy for some top guilds (which are still able to beat it... just not as fast anymore)
Aside from the nerf which should have, in my opinion been only incorporated into the single raids mechanics, the nerf itself is useless.
How can the nerf be good for the future of the game if it is still %-based damage?
So, STR had like 600.000.000 HP? So, in the future with a new level cap, new mods etc the need for even higher HP in raids WILL eventually arise. What happens then? Another 50% cut? 25% cut? And after that?
It is just working on the symptoms not the cause. Either the health pools are too high and should be worked around differently OR expose itself needs to change:
Will you include pages of errata on each toon’s abilities to explain in what Raid it does what? Or will you include it in the raid descriptions? What will be the response to new players asking why expose deals X damage in arena but only Y damage in a raids? Why does expose deal more damage in arena to toons than it does to Rancor?
TL:DR
There is a massive gap of non existent transparency as to why things happen, besides „it‘s for the future“ which leaves the playerbase in doubt and let’s them assume it is all about the money earned through artificially increasing the value of new toons, instead naturally letting them fade out of their importance through new releases.
@CG_RyDiggs the ironic thing is that your post did more to harm the promotion of this game than the OP's
His was just an usual rant that would have been quickly forgotten.
But you just chose to belittle him by disecting his whole post in a not so friendly way. If you were really interested in more concrete feedback why not ask him in a nice way?
...
There are no REAL concerns in th original post. 80% are pure complaints with ZERO evidence support. It would be kind enough not to just delete this useless whine
It is rather funny that you chose to quote me when the only thing I said about the content of the OP was that it was a rant that would have quickly been forgotten if not for the reply he received.
Just to make it clear to you: This is not about the OP it is about the reaction to the OP.
CG apologized for this, RyDiggs apologized for this and we got some communication effort plus a promise for further improved communication that is miles better than what we had before.Let's hope they deliver
Therefore I thank everyone that voiced their discomfort at the way this situation was handled which has now lead to a hopefully brighter future.
Your response here once again is unprofessional and condescending. The community is extremely upset with how this new raid was handled. Continuing to belittle customers is not a good business model, no matter what they said.
A big issue we have is the picking and choosing of what you decide to actually respond to. You say valid and constructive criticism is welcome, but yet many posts go unanswered. You spent a great deal of time on this post, but refuse to answer questions regarding useless gear as rewards, numerous bugs still in the game, etc.
You bring up the bug forum and why we are in general chat, it’s because we have numerous bugs still in the game that don’t get addressed. We feel we have no other option than to post in general when valid concerns appear to be ignored.
Many love the game still, but with continuous bugs, nerfing to fix mistakes not caught in testing, condescending attitudes, etc, make its very hard to want to keep investing.
This reminds me of my profession of law enforcement. The community (at times) acts like the citizen who gets upset that::
A) It took too long to get there to respond to their complaint
Bee) Generalize that the last time they made a similar complaint that the police didn't do "kitten"
C) Are not satisfied with the response given to them by the law enforcement officer now that he is there actively engaging them
Which then leads to other people coming out of the wood works to throw out more kitten and after the officer has listened to this abuse for weeks and weeks (or months) he flips the script and comes off as a pompous kitten. And then the same people have the audacity to blame the officer for being sarcastic or "salty" or whatever you want to call it. The point? The officer is screwed no matter what. He goes the nice route and tries to explain what he can do within the confines of the law and the citizen isn't happy. He goes the salty route and basically turns the tables on the citizen and then the citizen gets their feathers ruffled even more by saying "You can't talk to me like that. My taxes pay your salary!" and then it just snow balls from there. There is no way to make everyone happy. Period.
I'm not here to defend the Devs. There are many issues that have legitimately discussed in length recently (Sith raid, nerfing JTR/exposes, etc...). I agree that the sentiment is that the general community is extemely upset with these issues. Anger has the tendency to make people more vocal. But when people come in here with a chip on their shoulder (not saying YOU clark) and get called on it (and in my opinion I think he made his point very clear no matter what the salt content was) I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say that the response was justified. I've seen much worse. But like my job I don't catch everyone. Sometimes an example needs to be made and that's what I see this as. No more. No less. Lets move on and see if we can make strides to fix some of these issues that has made a lot of people upset (myself included!).
Where are the mods at? I feel like RyDiggs should be put in forum jail for his comments here today...
I will ponder this existential question over the weekend. It's a doozy, thank you.
Just can’t help yourself....have to be passive aggressive. You guys created this mess. Please have some thicker skin. Your continued responses like the don’t “PROMOTE the community and the game.”
I was being honest. I will think about this. I do little else BUT think about this. If you saw me grinning, nodding and contemplating you would understand.
Unfortunately, text doesn't do justice, and I can't do corporate robot well, nor do I think it would serve the community here.
SO, we're stuck with an implication that needs to be believed; I love this community, this game, and the PASSIONATE players, like the OP who would take the time to go to a forum, write something HOPING to affect a game they love so much.
If I go to far, I'll correct. I expect the same of my community.
If my current posts are not promoting the game, then We (Capital Games), I (Ryan Thomas) and You (the community) will keep talking and dialog until we do.
Because this game is LONGTERM, and so am I. I really hope you will be to, to help us continue to nurture and grow a healthy thriving community.
TTYL!
I often have this very argument with my wife when she takes a text out of context. There's a HUGE difference between a text response versus a face to face response. 90 percent (or something close to that) of all communication is non-verbal so in this forum people take the responses and put whatever spin they want on salt content, anger, aggression, and a whole other list of adjectives.
Another example of someone adding NOTHING to the conversation. I mean lets call it like it is people. Do I think Ry's responses have been sodium filled? To an extent yes I do. But I don't really care. I would expect him to respond if I made a similar comment.
What do I gain by saying "If I talked to my customers that way I would be out of a job" or "Where are the mods at?" . People do NOT like being told they are wrong. People do NOT like being responded with sarcasm when the whole reason for the sarcastic response was what was originally said. I mean think about it. I come in here and say "Hey where are the mods at. This Dev guy needs a time out because I don't like the way he's been making comments on this forum". What purpose does this serve other than its shock value to call out a Developer. Do we expect him to say "You are correct and yes I will put myself in time out". Then the next thing will be "Ok now he isn't responding to my questions/criticisms". Well you just put him in time out. Where does this help to move the conversation FORWARD? To that question I say it does nothing other than make for good reading for people who enjoy watching a cat fight. Honestly people. Look beyond the greater picture of the responses and your interpretation of whether it is salty or not.
So with that Ry I would like to ask a question. Given the recent changes to JTR and the expose mechanics why was a decision made to bring back JTR with no announcement and an edited March event calendar post giving the community only two days notice?
I find all of this very disappointing. Especially the fact that a dev/manager would ever consider talking to a customer in the manner that he did. There are two solid rules to follow in business or you will be fired or bankrupt. Rule number one: the customer is always right. Rule number two: when in doubt refer to rule one. Pretty simple. It’s no wonder the community is so up in arms. Good luck digging out of this Grand Canyon sized hole you have dug yourself. Also....adding in your apology as an edit only shows that you have been scolded by the people that use OUR money to pay YOUR check. Consider yourself fortunate for still being employed. As a business owner you would have been terminated immediately due to conduct detrimental. Consider yourself lucky.
His speaking was fine. Customers are not always right, that's just dumb.
No, dude, you're misunderstanding the rule. The rule that customers are always right means that even when customers are wrong... they're right.
I understand the rule. The whole point of RT response is being blown way out of proportion and trite business phrases don't do RT justice, nor the customer who has to know that it's impossible for them to be always right.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
@KylarStern and to others vehemently opposed to the response here, I'd like you to consider another view ...I agree that @CG_RyDiggs response was unconventional and in many companies it would result in a "training opportunity"...but do we really want the corporate robot response with a token pat on the back and just sent on our way? If you peel back the info shared and intimate insights along with the notable amount of time, this is actually a much more in depth and valuable response than what we'd typically get.
Compare this to what happened before: Thread would be insta-moved to the abyss OR...a funny quip accompanied by a GIF plus a pat on the back with no relevant info shared. I like the passion and effort so I wouldn't want to see him fired / removed as you're suggesting.
Now, could the salt level be scaled back a bit without going full corporate robot? Yeah it was heavy in some spots, but if I had to choose between a compassionate answer that is informing me at a much higher level and actually get responded to I'd rather have that than some corporate rubber stamp response that checks a Customer Service 101 training box.
100 percent agree. I felt like I needed to be a GIF master to illicit a response from Koz months ago. I know people are getting all bent out of shape to the responses. Maybe because I have a much thicker skin or can look at it from the perspective of WHY the response appeared to be salty that it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I value the opinions. I just don't agree with many of them. And the world continues to turn...
Your response here once again is unprofessional and condescending. The community is extremely upset with how this new raid was handled. Continuing to belittle customers is not a good business model, no matter what they said.
A big issue we have is the picking and choosing of what you decide to actually respond to. You say valid and constructive criticism is welcome, but yet many posts go unanswered. You spent a great deal of time on this post, but refuse to answer questions regarding useless gear as rewards, numerous bugs still in the game, etc.
You bring up the bug forum and why we are in general chat, it’s because we have numerous bugs still in the game that don’t get addressed. We feel we have no other option than to post in general when valid concerns appear to be ignored.
Many love the game still, but with continuous bugs, nerfing to fix mistakes not caught in testing, condescending attitudes, etc, make its very hard to want to keep investing.
This reminds me of my profession of law enforcement. The community (at times) acts like the citizen who gets upset that::
A) It took too long to get there to respond to their complaint
Bee) Generalize that the last time they made a similar complaint that the police didn't do "kitten"
C) Are not satisfied with the response given to them by the law enforcement officer now that he is there actively engaging them
Which then leads to other people coming out of the wood works to throw out more kitten and after the officer has listened to this abuse for weeks and weeks (or months) he flips the script and comes off as a pompous kitten. And then the same people have the audacity to blame the officer for being sarcastic or "salty" or whatever you want to call it. The point? The officer is screwed no matter what. He goes the nice route and tries to explain what he can do within the confines of the law and the citizen isn't happy. He goes the salty route and basically turns the tables on the citizen and then the citizen gets their feathers ruffled even more by saying "You can't talk to me like that. My taxes pay your salary!" and then it just snow balls from there. There is no way to make everyone happy. Period.
I'm not here to defend the Devs. There are many issues that have legitimately discussed in length recently (Sith raid, nerfing JTR/exposes, etc...). I agree that the sentiment is that the general community is extemely upset with these issues. Anger has the tendency to make people more vocal. But when people come in here with a chip on their shoulder (not saying YOU clark) and get called on it (and in my opinion I think he made his point very clear no matter what the salt content was) I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say that the response was justified. I've seen much worse. But like my job I don't catch everyone. Sometimes an example needs to be made and that's what I see this as. No more. No less. Lets move on and see if we can make strides to fix some of these issues that has made a lot of people upset (myself included!).
@Boofpoof If you are in law enforcement, I sincerely hope that you have been trained to take the polite route and not be salty/pompous. My experience working with law enforcement has shown me that the best officers all the way up the ranks are those who maintain professionalism. Taking your stress out on the public is a recipe for disaster. It escalates situations that could and should be de-escalated. Quite frankly, this is the case in any industry that involves interaction with the public. Customers are often going to be wrong. They will even be emotional and rude sometimes while they are wrong. The OP in this post was wrong, for that matter. But that does not justify the arrogant and hostile attitude in response, which is what prompted the eventual apology here and by the higher-ups. Someone working for CG should not be lowering themselves to the kind of confrontational and hostile tone that you might expect from your average forum poster. When you are officially representing your company or your local government (as law enforcement) part of your job is to maintain professionalism when dealing with the public.
I’ve read through all of this and am sure this request will get buried - but when you make your new topic about how unacceptable it is to post regarding boycots or other recommendations that could hurt the company bottom line...
Can you please also include what we, as players, can do to actually get our feedback heard, and legitimately acted on?
Up to this point the only thing we’ve discovered is an effective means of getting the developers attention is withholding our purchases.
Battlefront took a beating where it hurt and that’s what made a change. It wasn’t the genuine feedback, it wasn’t calmly expressed concerns over what changes and concepts were hurting the game.
Feedback alone has never been effective, and given this thread it still doesn’t feel like it is. There are a handful of things that make this game difficult to play, and difficult to enjoy playing.
So okay. You don’t want talk of boycotts - but give us a new road, a real one, to influence change. Because right now, there is none. Don’t just tell us that one is closed, and to carry on.
This is a game based around the stories of a Rebellion, heroes who stood up and said “no” to the way the Empire and First Order believed was the way the world should work.
It was too late for Vader, by the time he was willing to compromise and listen. The players have shown you quite a few Death Stars in this game. That Death Star technology could have been used for good, yes, but there was no compromise or real action on expressed concern... What option was there except to blow it up?
Hyperbole. I know. But there’s a reason that’s the community’s go to... there isn’t any other way, as shown by the years of giving feedback and having it be ignored and disregarded.
Your response here once again is unprofessional and condescending. The community is extremely upset with how this new raid was handled. Continuing to belittle customers is not a good business model, no matter what they said.
A big issue we have is the picking and choosing of what you decide to actually respond to. You say valid and constructive criticism is welcome, but yet many posts go unanswered. You spent a great deal of time on this post, but refuse to answer questions regarding useless gear as rewards, numerous bugs still in the game, etc.
You bring up the bug forum and why we are in general chat, it’s because we have numerous bugs still in the game that don’t get addressed. We feel we have no other option than to post in general when valid concerns appear to be ignored.
Many love the game still, but with continuous bugs, nerfing to fix mistakes not caught in testing, condescending attitudes, etc, make its very hard to want to keep investing.
This reminds me of my profession of law enforcement. The community (at times) acts like the citizen who gets upset that::
A) It took too long to get there to respond to their complaint
Bee) Generalize that the last time they made a similar complaint that the police didn't do "kitten"
C) Are not satisfied with the response given to them by the law enforcement officer now that he is there actively engaging them
Which then leads to other people coming out of the wood works to throw out more kitten and after the officer has listened to this abuse for weeks and weeks (or months) he flips the script and comes off as a pompous kitten. And then the same people have the audacity to blame the officer for being sarcastic or "salty" or whatever you want to call it. The point? The officer is screwed no matter what. He goes the nice route and tries to explain what he can do within the confines of the law and the citizen isn't happy. He goes the salty route and basically turns the tables on the citizen and then the citizen gets their feathers ruffled even more by saying "You can't talk to me like that. My taxes pay your salary!" and then it just snow balls from there. There is no way to make everyone happy. Period.
I'm not here to defend the Devs. There are many issues that have legitimately discussed in length recently (Sith raid, nerfing JTR/exposes, etc...). I agree that the sentiment is that the general community is extemely upset with these issues. Anger has the tendency to make people more vocal. But when people come in here with a chip on their shoulder (not saying YOU clark) and get called on it (and in my opinion I think he made his point very clear no matter what the salt content was) I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say that the response was justified. I've seen much worse. But like my job I don't catch everyone. Sometimes an example needs to be made and that's what I see this as. No more. No less. Lets move on and see if we can make strides to fix some of these issues that has made a lot of people upset (myself included!).
@Boofpoof If you are in law enforcement, I sincerely hope that you have been trained to take the polite route and not be salty/pompous. My experience working with law enforcement has shown me that the best officers all the way up the ranks are those who maintain professionalism. Taking your stress out on the public is a recipe for disaster. It escalates situations that could and should be de-escalated. Quite frankly, this is the case in any industry that involves interaction with the public. Customers are often going to be wrong. They will even be emotional and rude sometimes while they are wrong. The OP in this post was wrong, for that matter. But that does not justify the arrogant and hostile attitude in response, which is what prompted the eventual apology here and by the higher-ups. Someone working for CG should not be lowering themselves to the kind of confrontational and hostile tone that you might expect from your average forum poster. When you are officially representing your company or your local government (as law enforcement) part of your job is to maintain professionalism when dealing with the public.
I am trained to maintain professionalism. It is easier said than done though. And much like Ry here I think he had a moment where emotions trumped that professionalism that you would expect. None of us are immune to it. I sometimes get triggered and that filter that sits between my brain and mouth just flat out breaks. So from my perspective I understand how it happens and a small part of me says “Great job for putting X person in his place”. I know it is wrong to lose that professionalism but when that filter breaks it is SO easy to do. It doesnt make it right and I will definitely agree with that. Kudos to Ry for being adult enough to admit to his short comings. In my profession I have swallowed humble pie from time to time because I didnt act the way that I should have.
I’ve read through all of this and am sure this request will get buried - but when you make your new topic about how unacceptable it is to post regarding boycots or other recommendations that could hurt the company bottom line...
Can you please also include what we, as players, can do to actually get our feedback heard, and legitimately acted on?
Up to this point the only thing we’ve discovered is an effective means of getting the developers attention is withholding our purchases.
Battlefront took a beating where it hurt and that’s what made a change. It wasn’t the genuine feedback, it wasn’t calmly expressed concerns over what changes and concepts were hurting the game.
Feedback alone has never been effective, and given this thread it still doesn’t feel like it is. There are a handful of things that make this game difficult to play, and difficult to enjoy playing.
So okay. You don’t want talk of boycotts - but give us a new road, a real one, to influence change. Because right now, there is none. Don’t just tell us that one is closed, and to carry on.
This is a game based around the stories of a Rebellion, heroes who stood up and said “no” to the way the Empire and First Order believed was the way the world should work.
It was too late for Vader, by the time he was willing to compromise and listen. The players have shown you quite a few Death Stars in this game. That Death Star technology could have been used for good, yes, but there was no compromise or real action on expressed concern... What option was there except to blow it up?
Hyperbole. I know. But there’s a reason that’s the community’s go to... there isn’t any other way, as shown by the years of giving feedback and having it be ignored and disregarded.
Your response here once again is unprofessional and condescending. The community is extremely upset with how this new raid was handled. Continuing to belittle customers is not a good business model, no matter what they said.
A big issue we have is the picking and choosing of what you decide to actually respond to. You say valid and constructive criticism is welcome, but yet many posts go unanswered. You spent a great deal of time on this post, but refuse to answer questions regarding useless gear as rewards, numerous bugs still in the game, etc.
You bring up the bug forum and why we are in general chat, it’s because we have numerous bugs still in the game that don’t get addressed. We feel we have no other option than to post in general when valid concerns appear to be ignored.
Many love the game still, but with continuous bugs, nerfing to fix mistakes not caught in testing, condescending attitudes, etc, make its very hard to want to keep investing.
This reminds me of my profession of law enforcement. The community (at times) acts like the citizen who gets upset that::
A) It took too long to get there to respond to their complaint
Bee) Generalize that the last time they made a similar complaint that the police didn't do "kitten"
C) Are not satisfied with the response given to them by the law enforcement officer now that he is there actively engaging them
Which then leads to other people coming out of the wood works to throw out more kitten and after the officer has listened to this abuse for weeks and weeks (or months) he flips the script and comes off as a pompous kitten. And then the same people have the audacity to blame the officer for being sarcastic or "salty" or whatever you want to call it. The point? The officer is screwed no matter what. He goes the nice route and tries to explain what he can do within the confines of the law and the citizen isn't happy. He goes the salty route and basically turns the tables on the citizen and then the citizen gets their feathers ruffled even more by saying "You can't talk to me like that. My taxes pay your salary!" and then it just snow balls from there. There is no way to make everyone happy. Period.
I'm not here to defend the Devs. There are many issues that have legitimately discussed in length recently (Sith raid, nerfing JTR/exposes, etc...). I agree that the sentiment is that the general community is extemely upset with these issues. Anger has the tendency to make people more vocal. But when people come in here with a chip on their shoulder (not saying YOU clark) and get called on it (and in my opinion I think he made his point very clear no matter what the salt content was) I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say that the response was justified. I've seen much worse. But like my job I don't catch everyone. Sometimes an example needs to be made and that's what I see this as. No more. No less. Lets move on and see if we can make strides to fix some of these issues that has made a lot of people upset (myself included!).
@Boofpoof If you are in law enforcement, I sincerely hope that you have been trained to take the polite route and not be salty/pompous. My experience working with law enforcement has shown me that the best officers all the way up the ranks are those who maintain professionalism. Taking your stress out on the public is a recipe for disaster. It escalates situations that could and should be de-escalated. Quite frankly, this is the case in any industry that involves interaction with the public. Customers are often going to be wrong. They will even be emotional and rude sometimes while they are wrong. The OP in this post was wrong, for that matter. But that does not justify the arrogant and hostile attitude in response, which is what prompted the eventual apology here and by the higher-ups. Someone working for CG should not be lowering themselves to the kind of confrontational and hostile tone that you might expect from your average forum poster. When you are officially representing your company or your local government (as law enforcement) part of your job is to maintain professionalism when dealing with the public.
@SoonerJBD I had a post typed up and somehow editing it to mention you caused it to disappear (just plain weird). But yes I am trained to be professional and respectful. However I will also throw out there that it is easier said than to do at times. As human beings we are falliable. One of the best lines from The Last Jedi was from Yoda in that failure is a great teacher. I think that what caused this whole thing to spiral out of control is exactly that. A failure on both sides of the equation to communicate their frustrations/expectations/etc. Does it justify the salty response? I cant say that it totally exonerates Ry because as you said he is expected to take the high road. But at the same time I know how it happens. You go months and months taking complaint after complaint and 99 times out of 100 it doesnt get to you. But that one time that you lose that focus and let someone hold it (in this case with a polite response that even I recognized it for the salty response that it was) then people lose their kitten. Justified. Unjustified. We could argue both sides of the coin and I doubt it would solve anything other than make for entertaining reading.
Yes he is held to a higher standard. I wont argue that he should have held the higher morale ground. But the hostility in this place recently due to all the issues made this an ideal breeding ground for the fall out that followed. Again I am not defending the actions. I am just saying I truly understand how it happened and some people just used it to fuel more hate. The Dark side are they...
Kudos to @CG_RyDiggs for having some introspective and backbone to apologize and hope that we move forward.
While I think you're comments are fine, I do see the points made by the community. 1st, everyone here loves this game, including you, so we all share a common interest! That's good to see once in a while!
I appreciate you being the bigger man and apologizing even when I personally think it wasn't necessary.
Now while this may not be your area expertise, I would say that EA has made above industry average profit margins, and is on the lighter side of S, G&A. I assume this somewhat translates to CG. If I were an investor, it wouldn't bother me if investment in people and resources were increased at CG or even EA to provide greater support to you and your team in fixing bugs on new content as well as older content, introducing new content, and making content more in line with the gaming communities expectations. Perhaps the issues we see are the result of this game growing so fast, and being so successful, that it simply has outgrown CG's infrastructure resulting in deteriorating service most relevant to gamers. Maybe people like you and your team are drinking water from a firehose, or laying track when the train is coming. If that is the case, then the results make sense to be pressured for all parties, especially at CG whose employees may feel like they can't keep up. I know that CG employees care about this game, and care about it's gamers, and care about the overall experience of SWGOH. Maybe there's some way to align investment with you. And hey, maybe the increased investment may result in a happier community and have the added side effect of us spending more money, thus giving a return on an investment. Just some random thoughts from one of millions of gamers you have. Cheers!
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
This was an eye-opening thread, followed by an unexpected but welcome Q&A that I unfortunately missed due to time of occurrence. I think it is safe to say there are deep issues at hand that need to continue to be addressed and talked about with the community to keep things healthy and professional.
My single biggest hope is that communication really does change after these past weeks; not just a one-time reaction against several bad moves by a mid-level team member, but honest and consistent change. Regarding this thread's issue, I can get behind suppressing posts when people outright direct the community to not to spend money, but as has come to light here, this was not the intention of the OP and the way it was handled was clearly broken. But, it does open the door for positive change.
The Q&A's with the community should happen regularly, as in once a month, with a week lead-in and at an accessible time. While certainly a difficult process to manage, I think that this will have an overall positive effect on the community. I think I echo the sentiments of most of the community when I request, simply, for no more statements that are non-commitments without an explanation or simply deferential on long-standing issues. This method upsets the community far more than a single thread where a community manager/developer goes off the rails for a bit.
Also, though I will not be specific to avoid triggering jail time for discussion of moderation, I think there are certain practices that have arguably become draconian which should be looked into and addressed, as CG_Carrie explained in the Q&A it was not intended to be that way. It doesn't happen all the time, but it has become predictable about certain topics (ie raid rewards, pre-release testing of content, who and how does beta testing, character release cadences, etc).
I look forward to the post by @CG_Carrie clarifying the expectations and timing of communication so that we are all on the same page as many community members feel that answers to the most recurring questions are more often light dismissals than answers. I think we all want what's best for this game and I think more open and honest communication will be key. I hope this can be addressed in the communication expectations and road ahead information coming soon.
I am 100% on CG’s side on this post. Sith team is great and my shard is full of Sith teams now. The player base has been mean and salty, hyperbolic for quite a while, regarding the new Sith Raid and JTR event return. The players need to calm down and learn this game more, posting doesn’t make you “care” about the game. Learn the strategies and find the bugs, then give comprehensive thoughts with Reasons are the way you “care” about the game.
Perhaps "posting doesn't make you care", but reading through the multitude of posts that have done precisely what you suggest, in learning the strategies and finding the bugs, then reporting them with entirely valid cause & effect scenarios & absolute justification, only for them to then be ignored, makes you care even less.
Also, where you say "the players need to..", a) I think you mean "some players need to...", but b) who are you to say what other people need to do?
Make a suggestion, sure. Don't assume what others need. Certainly don't be so presumptuous as to announce what they all need to do. This just makes you seem arrogant & condescending. Not saying that you are, just that this is how it seems when you make statements like that.
Maybe this is why you didn't see anything wrong with the response.
There are no REAL concerns in th original post. 80% are pure complaints with ZERO evidence support. It would be kind enough not to just delete this useless whine
Agreed. But there are ways to inform the player of such, without resorting to pettiness & insults.
If you or I think that the person is worthy of being treated in such a lowly way, then fine, but we're not employed to respond diplomatically.
We can't be professional, someone being paid for the role has to be.
I am 100% on CG’s side on this post. Sith team is great and my shard is full of Sith teams now. The player base has been mean and salty, hyperbolic for quite a while, regarding the new Sith Raid and JTR event return. The players need to calm down and learn this game more, posting doesn’t make you “care” about the game. Learn the strategies and find the bugs, then give comprehensive thoughts with Reasons are the way you “care” about the game.
I can be very critical of some of the decisions the developers have made, but I am also on CG, and RyDiggs side for the most part in this instance. Sith is the most dominant team in my arena shard. It's just unlike the past there is no one team that dominates over all. We have numerous viable options to be competitive at the top, and nothing is really holding well on defense. Not sure if this original post was when Sion was bugged (for no more than 2 days) or not, but I agree that Sion was useless during that time period, and I had to sub him out and was fine. CG was very quick to fix the bug. I just wish they had been quick with other character bugs as well (IG88 springs to mind with his healing immunity not working and getting wrecked by Dooku under Nihilis lead over and over back in the day and only got fixed after no one used Droids anymore), prioritizing this more.
I also agree that the OP's post could have been more constructive, and was falling in whining territory as it was loaded with hyperbole, and was pretty unspecific. It is true Sith don't do a ton of damage, but it is about getting the train rolling, and once that train gets rolling with Palpatine Stuns, Drain Force removing turn meter etc it is hard to come back from that. My Sion is 4* and maxed out for what non-7* can reach, and he is a little weak, and I expect that from a 4* character, but I can still beat almost everyone in my shard with little trouble. Only Commander Luke counter teams can cause me trouble. There are teams I have even beaten without them getting a single turn and getting multiple stuns in from Palpatine in the same battle.
I also understand the initial overreaction from RyDiggs. The developers are human, and the community seems to expect them to never express frustration and to act like robots all the time essentially. Frankly, I have been tired of staff that behave like robots all the time in video game forums so I like to see them behave like humans. It has got to be frustrating for CG members to see all their hard work trashed around so much among the community, and the heat has been pretty heavy since the Sith-raid release.
As I have said many times on this forum, a freemium game has different priorities for the developers from what we have grown accustomed to in other games. Profit-generating decisions will be very high on the list and 'small' bug-fixes will be a lot further down for the future of the game. This is just business. This is why I believe that micro-transactions has been unhealthy for the gaming world, but it is what it is. While I cannot say this with certainty for this game it is the impression I get after playing for a year and a half, and it is natural that it results in frustration from the community.
I also understand the initial overreaction from RyDiggs. The developers are human, and the community seems to expect them to never express frustration and to act like robots all the time essentially. Frankly, I have been tired of staff that behave like robots all the time in video game forums so I like to see them behave like humans. It has got to be frustrating for CG members to see all their hard work trashed around so much among the community, and the heat has been pretty heavy since the Sith-raid release.
I think RyDiggs is a customer service representative, not a dev.
Yes, of course they are human, what a strange statement. Did anyone suggest that they were anything else? Joke.
You're correct, that everyone does experience frustration at work sometimes. Venting that frustration at, or in front of your customers is not something that can ever be considered a good idea, under any circumstances, if you wish to retain those customers.
He may well simply be the messenger pigeon, but if that pigeon defecates on you, you're not going to react well.
RyDiggs recognised this & has apologised for his overreaction.
His superiors recognised this and hurriedly put together an emergency Q & A to placate the community.
Why are people still debating this? Move on, nothing to see here.
I'd like to weigh in here. Ive played the game for a little over a year now. mostly f2p, but alas, have spent about 150$ over the year of play.
Firstly, Im not understanding how the comments/responses from CG_RyDiggs (I dont know how to link...) are constructive. The OP made some valid points, and he should be free--and encouraged--to share his opinion to not "invest in any sith, especially sion." Even if you think it is not constructive, game, bashing, etc. You NEED to "tolerate" this. If this is how a fan feels, address it! Dont sink to the same salty level, and for a game that waits until august for content they announce in january, Id expect a little more patience and composure!
Further, you continually ask for evidence to support these claims. However, there is a laundry list of things (known bugs/QoL requests/etc.) that are clearly back by evidence that CG does nothing about. Oh but sthan is undermining our poorly planned and tested raid--and thats an insta fix? It is no secret that fans HATE when CG releases an event with zero notice (current JTR and BB8 events <- evidence). And yet youd rather take the time argue with trolls--and stooping to one yourself.
Mod management? hahahahahaha
All of these things (including a players advice to not invest in toons/packs/etc.) are all too valid. And further, what incites fans to decry aspects of the game are the overt and predatory tactics the game uses (timed bonuses/ no event notice/etc.). More evidence for the aforementioned FACT:
I emailed CG requesting the odds of their loot boxes, and was given 100 complementary crystals and asked to continue enjoying the game. The basic question here is, how are NOT disclosing these odds helping your player base?
In summary:
1) It is wrong for anyone--especially a dev--to "not tolerate" a players feedback when it is legitimate. And "consider this your warning..." That's pretty messed up on multiple levels, but I think abuse of power is at the top of that list.
2) The OP feedback was and is legitimate. That is not an opinion. He feels that there is an aspect of the game that is flawed, and he is warning other players about it. Dont like it? Sorry? Maybe address his concerns in a respectful way?
3) The vehemence among this community is in large part a result of the business tactics used by CG to exploit addictive tendencies.
4) Is your time not better spent addressing other known bugs and QoL requests than engaging in this behavior?
Lastly, and perhaps most important, you were very kind to provide others on this thread with resources to address their shortcomings--and so, my gift to you:
To the OP it wasnt a great post to be fair but if i was 'handled' the way you were i would have been making an official complaint for the way i was treated on a public forum by a company representive.. no word of a lie i was reading some of the responses and was kind of thinking its what you see when someone gets in to drunk war on a forum...
Been playing for 2+ years and on forums for most of that but wow never have i been so shocked at a companys response to a post... not just the initial one but it just continued and continued..
Starting to use these forums less and less and when you see this just backs up my thoughts why..
I mean no offense to those CG people that are helpful and constructive but this thread was a let down for all of the forum and "community"
In terms of the Sith Raid, I'll say this, for what it's worth, my fleet has a few people who literally between them can eat a Heroic Rancor in the time it takes to have lunch, we're talking 10 minutes, maybe 15. And yet, between them, and the other heavy hitters it still took us a ungodly amount of time for just T5 or T4 Sith Raid. I truly would love to know what in the hell kinda guild can complete a T7 Sith Raid. Seriously, I wanna know.
In terms of the Sith Raid, I'll say this, for what it's worth, my fleet has a few people who literally between them can eat a Heroic Rancor in the time it takes to have lunch, we're talking 10 minutes, maybe 15. And yet, between them, and the other heavy hitters it still took us a ungodly amount of time for just T5 or T4 Sith Raid. I truly would love to know what in the hell kinda guild can complete a T7 Sith Raid. Seriously, I wanna know.
What's your Guild GP? Quadruple that, add 50 RJTs & you're on your way....
Replies
There are no REAL concerns in th original post. 80% are pure complaints with ZERO evidence support. It would be kind enough not to just delete this useless whine
If You will get zeta I want one too.
His speaking was fine. Customers are not always right, that's just dumb.
No, dude, you're misunderstanding the rule. The rule that customers are always right means that even when customers are wrong... they're right.
-Sun Tzu
There is no question the sith raid has disappointed and even if you understand the need to nerf expose that wasn’t a pretty solution to a raid people were already disappointed with.
Obviously, customers often do not have a clue what they are talking about. Yet, the rules says „customer ist king / customer is always right“. It means even if you know the customer has no idea what he is talking about, you smile and try to be helpful; like explaining it step by step again.
And no offense intended, but I personally feel quite unimportant as customer in this forum.
1. We as customers have to take extra steps/measures to report bugs. Extra account etc. I just don‘t see why I as consumer should do extra work for the mods/devs instead of the natural choice (this IS the official SWGoH forum...)
2. Whenever I or others have voiced doubts or opinions about decisions, we have been patronized like little children with the "You will understand when you‘ve grown older" attitude. That‘s in my opinion not a very professsional way of communication. You make consumers doubt your decisions by not providing appropriate explanation as to way changes happen. (See addendum for the perfect example of this at the end of this post)
3. If something is bugged for ages, it‘s not getting touched. If it is new and might impact the value of new content it gets hotfixed within a week.
That‘s why I personally stopped bothering. It feels like there are only empty phrases of consumer acknowledgement and EA/CG does whatever they want.
Addendum:
Perfect example may be the expose nerf. You did not communicate it at all and have been like „it is better for you and your future, we are not going to tell you why, but we‘re just going to do it“.
There are many issues with expose that -to my knowledge- have not been addressed at all.
Why was there a need to nerf expose throughout all raids and all raids to come?
I only have the number for HPit atm:
A drop from roughly 1200 to 600. why was there a need to do that?
I imagine HAAT is like a drop from 2800 to 1400 not that massive either.
I understand the change for T6 STR though, were expose dealt like 40.000 if I recall correctly.
What happened there was an unannounced devalue of an asset I partly bought for the sole reason (which I still cannot believe no one might have noticed) that the Raid was too easy for some top guilds (which are still able to beat it... just not as fast anymore)
Aside from the nerf which should have, in my opinion been only incorporated into the single raids mechanics, the nerf itself is useless.
How can the nerf be good for the future of the game if it is still %-based damage?
So, STR had like 600.000.000 HP? So, in the future with a new level cap, new mods etc the need for even higher HP in raids WILL eventually arise. What happens then? Another 50% cut? 25% cut? And after that?
It is just working on the symptoms not the cause. Either the health pools are too high and should be worked around differently OR expose itself needs to change:
Will you include pages of errata on each toon’s abilities to explain in what Raid it does what? Or will you include it in the raid descriptions? What will be the response to new players asking why expose deals X damage in arena but only Y damage in a raids? Why does expose deal more damage in arena to toons than it does to Rancor?
TL:DR
There is a massive gap of non existent transparency as to why things happen, besides „it‘s for the future“ which leaves the playerbase in doubt and let’s them assume it is all about the money earned through artificially increasing the value of new toons, instead naturally letting them fade out of their importance through new releases.
@CG_RyDiggs
It is rather funny that you chose to quote me when the only thing I said about the content of the OP was that it was a rant that would have quickly been forgotten if not for the reply he received.
Just to make it clear to you: This is not about the OP it is about the reaction to the OP.
CG apologized for this, RyDiggs apologized for this and we got some communication effort plus a promise for further improved communication that is miles better than what we had before.Let's hope they deliver
Therefore I thank everyone that voiced their discomfort at the way this situation was handled which has now lead to a hopefully brighter future.
This reminds me of my profession of law enforcement. The community (at times) acts like the citizen who gets upset that::
A) It took too long to get there to respond to their complaint
Bee) Generalize that the last time they made a similar complaint that the police didn't do "kitten"
C) Are not satisfied with the response given to them by the law enforcement officer now that he is there actively engaging them
Which then leads to other people coming out of the wood works to throw out more kitten and after the officer has listened to this abuse for weeks and weeks (or months) he flips the script and comes off as a pompous kitten. And then the same people have the audacity to blame the officer for being sarcastic or "salty" or whatever you want to call it. The point? The officer is screwed no matter what. He goes the nice route and tries to explain what he can do within the confines of the law and the citizen isn't happy. He goes the salty route and basically turns the tables on the citizen and then the citizen gets their feathers ruffled even more by saying "You can't talk to me like that. My taxes pay your salary!" and then it just snow balls from there. There is no way to make everyone happy. Period.
I'm not here to defend the Devs. There are many issues that have legitimately discussed in length recently (Sith raid, nerfing JTR/exposes, etc...). I agree that the sentiment is that the general community is extemely upset with these issues. Anger has the tendency to make people more vocal. But when people come in here with a chip on their shoulder (not saying YOU clark) and get called on it (and in my opinion I think he made his point very clear no matter what the salt content was) I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to say that the response was justified. I've seen much worse. But like my job I don't catch everyone. Sometimes an example needs to be made and that's what I see this as. No more. No less. Lets move on and see if we can make strides to fix some of these issues that has made a lot of people upset (myself included!).
I often have this very argument with my wife when she takes a text out of context. There's a HUGE difference between a text response versus a face to face response. 90 percent (or something close to that) of all communication is non-verbal so in this forum people take the responses and put whatever spin they want on salt content, anger, aggression, and a whole other list of adjectives.
Another example of someone adding NOTHING to the conversation. I mean lets call it like it is people. Do I think Ry's responses have been sodium filled? To an extent yes I do. But I don't really care. I would expect him to respond if I made a similar comment.
What do I gain by saying "If I talked to my customers that way I would be out of a job" or "Where are the mods at?" . People do NOT like being told they are wrong. People do NOT like being responded with sarcasm when the whole reason for the sarcastic response was what was originally said. I mean think about it. I come in here and say "Hey where are the mods at. This Dev guy needs a time out because I don't like the way he's been making comments on this forum". What purpose does this serve other than its shock value to call out a Developer. Do we expect him to say "You are correct and yes I will put myself in time out". Then the next thing will be "Ok now he isn't responding to my questions/criticisms". Well you just put him in time out. Where does this help to move the conversation FORWARD? To that question I say it does nothing other than make for good reading for people who enjoy watching a cat fight. Honestly people. Look beyond the greater picture of the responses and your interpretation of whether it is salty or not.
So with that Ry I would like to ask a question. Given the recent changes to JTR and the expose mechanics why was a decision made to bring back JTR with no announcement and an edited March event calendar post giving the community only two days notice?
I understand the rule. The whole point of RT response is being blown way out of proportion and trite business phrases don't do RT justice, nor the customer who has to know that it's impossible for them to be always right.
100 percent agree. I felt like I needed to be a GIF master to illicit a response from Koz months ago. I know people are getting all bent out of shape to the responses. Maybe because I have a much thicker skin or can look at it from the perspective of WHY the response appeared to be salty that it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I value the opinions. I just don't agree with many of them. And the world continues to turn...
@Boofpoof If you are in law enforcement, I sincerely hope that you have been trained to take the polite route and not be salty/pompous. My experience working with law enforcement has shown me that the best officers all the way up the ranks are those who maintain professionalism. Taking your stress out on the public is a recipe for disaster. It escalates situations that could and should be de-escalated. Quite frankly, this is the case in any industry that involves interaction with the public. Customers are often going to be wrong. They will even be emotional and rude sometimes while they are wrong. The OP in this post was wrong, for that matter. But that does not justify the arrogant and hostile attitude in response, which is what prompted the eventual apology here and by the higher-ups. Someone working for CG should not be lowering themselves to the kind of confrontational and hostile tone that you might expect from your average forum poster. When you are officially representing your company or your local government (as law enforcement) part of your job is to maintain professionalism when dealing with the public.
I’ve read through all of this and am sure this request will get buried - but when you make your new topic about how unacceptable it is to post regarding boycots or other recommendations that could hurt the company bottom line...
Can you please also include what we, as players, can do to actually get our feedback heard, and legitimately acted on?
Up to this point the only thing we’ve discovered is an effective means of getting the developers attention is withholding our purchases.
Battlefront took a beating where it hurt and that’s what made a change. It wasn’t the genuine feedback, it wasn’t calmly expressed concerns over what changes and concepts were hurting the game.
Feedback alone has never been effective, and given this thread it still doesn’t feel like it is. There are a handful of things that make this game difficult to play, and difficult to enjoy playing.
So okay. You don’t want talk of boycotts - but give us a new road, a real one, to influence change. Because right now, there is none. Don’t just tell us that one is closed, and to carry on.
This is a game based around the stories of a Rebellion, heroes who stood up and said “no” to the way the Empire and First Order believed was the way the world should work.
It was too late for Vader, by the time he was willing to compromise and listen. The players have shown you quite a few Death Stars in this game. That Death Star technology could have been used for good, yes, but there was no compromise or real action on expressed concern... What option was there except to blow it up?
Hyperbole. I know. But there’s a reason that’s the community’s go to... there isn’t any other way, as shown by the years of giving feedback and having it be ignored and disregarded.
I am trained to maintain professionalism. It is easier said than done though. And much like Ry here I think he had a moment where emotions trumped that professionalism that you would expect. None of us are immune to it. I sometimes get triggered and that filter that sits between my brain and mouth just flat out breaks. So from my perspective I understand how it happens and a small part of me says “Great job for putting X person in his place”. I know it is wrong to lose that professionalism but when that filter breaks it is SO easy to do. It doesnt make it right and I will definitely agree with that. Kudos to Ry for being adult enough to admit to his short comings. In my profession I have swallowed humble pie from time to time because I didnt act the way that I should have.
@SoonerJBD
Great post @Edison .
@SoonerJBD I had a post typed up and somehow editing it to mention you caused it to disappear (just plain weird). But yes I am trained to be professional and respectful. However I will also throw out there that it is easier said than to do at times. As human beings we are falliable. One of the best lines from The Last Jedi was from Yoda in that failure is a great teacher. I think that what caused this whole thing to spiral out of control is exactly that. A failure on both sides of the equation to communicate their frustrations/expectations/etc. Does it justify the salty response? I cant say that it totally exonerates Ry because as you said he is expected to take the high road. But at the same time I know how it happens. You go months and months taking complaint after complaint and 99 times out of 100 it doesnt get to you. But that one time that you lose that focus and let someone hold it (in this case with a polite response that even I recognized it for the salty response that it was) then people lose their kitten. Justified. Unjustified. We could argue both sides of the coin and I doubt it would solve anything other than make for entertaining reading.
Yes he is held to a higher standard. I wont argue that he should have held the higher morale ground. But the hostility in this place recently due to all the issues made this an ideal breeding ground for the fall out that followed. Again I am not defending the actions. I am just saying I truly understand how it happened and some people just used it to fuel more hate. The Dark side are they...
Kudos to @CG_RyDiggs for having some introspective and backbone to apologize and hope that we move forward.
While I think you're comments are fine, I do see the points made by the community. 1st, everyone here loves this game, including you, so we all share a common interest! That's good to see once in a while!
I appreciate you being the bigger man and apologizing even when I personally think it wasn't necessary.
Now while this may not be your area expertise, I would say that EA has made above industry average profit margins, and is on the lighter side of S, G&A. I assume this somewhat translates to CG. If I were an investor, it wouldn't bother me if investment in people and resources were increased at CG or even EA to provide greater support to you and your team in fixing bugs on new content as well as older content, introducing new content, and making content more in line with the gaming communities expectations. Perhaps the issues we see are the result of this game growing so fast, and being so successful, that it simply has outgrown CG's infrastructure resulting in deteriorating service most relevant to gamers. Maybe people like you and your team are drinking water from a firehose, or laying track when the train is coming. If that is the case, then the results make sense to be pressured for all parties, especially at CG whose employees may feel like they can't keep up. I know that CG employees care about this game, and care about it's gamers, and care about the overall experience of SWGOH. Maybe there's some way to align investment with you. And hey, maybe the increased investment may result in a happier community and have the added side effect of us spending more money, thus giving a return on an investment. Just some random thoughts from one of millions of gamers you have. Cheers!
( @CG_Carrie ; @CG_CapGaSP ; @CG_RyDiggs and others who don't have tags that I know)
This was an eye-opening thread, followed by an unexpected but welcome Q&A that I unfortunately missed due to time of occurrence. I think it is safe to say there are deep issues at hand that need to continue to be addressed and talked about with the community to keep things healthy and professional.
My single biggest hope is that communication really does change after these past weeks; not just a one-time reaction against several bad moves by a mid-level team member, but honest and consistent change. Regarding this thread's issue, I can get behind suppressing posts when people outright direct the community to not to spend money, but as has come to light here, this was not the intention of the OP and the way it was handled was clearly broken. But, it does open the door for positive change.
The Q&A's with the community should happen regularly, as in once a month, with a week lead-in and at an accessible time. While certainly a difficult process to manage, I think that this will have an overall positive effect on the community. I think I echo the sentiments of most of the community when I request, simply, for no more statements that are non-commitments without an explanation or simply deferential on long-standing issues. This method upsets the community far more than a single thread where a community manager/developer goes off the rails for a bit.
Also, though I will not be specific to avoid triggering jail time for discussion of moderation, I think there are certain practices that have arguably become draconian which should be looked into and addressed, as CG_Carrie explained in the Q&A it was not intended to be that way. It doesn't happen all the time, but it has become predictable about certain topics (ie raid rewards, pre-release testing of content, who and how does beta testing, character release cadences, etc).
I look forward to the post by @CG_Carrie clarifying the expectations and timing of communication so that we are all on the same page as many community members feel that answers to the most recurring questions are more often light dismissals than answers. I think we all want what's best for this game and I think more open and honest communication will be key. I hope this can be addressed in the communication expectations and road ahead information coming soon.
Respectfully,
Devon / Anavel_Gato
Also, where you say "the players need to..", a) I think you mean "some players need to...", but b) who are you to say what other people need to do?
Make a suggestion, sure. Don't assume what others need. Certainly don't be so presumptuous as to announce what they all need to do. This just makes you seem arrogant & condescending. Not saying that you are, just that this is how it seems when you make statements like that.
Maybe this is why you didn't see anything wrong with the response.
Agreed. But there are ways to inform the player of such, without resorting to pettiness & insults.
If you or I think that the person is worthy of being treated in such a lowly way, then fine, but we're not employed to respond diplomatically.
We can't be professional, someone being paid for the role has to be.
I can be very critical of some of the decisions the developers have made, but I am also on CG, and RyDiggs side for the most part in this instance. Sith is the most dominant team in my arena shard. It's just unlike the past there is no one team that dominates over all. We have numerous viable options to be competitive at the top, and nothing is really holding well on defense. Not sure if this original post was when Sion was bugged (for no more than 2 days) or not, but I agree that Sion was useless during that time period, and I had to sub him out and was fine. CG was very quick to fix the bug. I just wish they had been quick with other character bugs as well (IG88 springs to mind with his healing immunity not working and getting wrecked by Dooku under Nihilis lead over and over back in the day and only got fixed after no one used Droids anymore), prioritizing this more.
I also agree that the OP's post could have been more constructive, and was falling in whining territory as it was loaded with hyperbole, and was pretty unspecific. It is true Sith don't do a ton of damage, but it is about getting the train rolling, and once that train gets rolling with Palpatine Stuns, Drain Force removing turn meter etc it is hard to come back from that. My Sion is 4* and maxed out for what non-7* can reach, and he is a little weak, and I expect that from a 4* character, but I can still beat almost everyone in my shard with little trouble. Only Commander Luke counter teams can cause me trouble. There are teams I have even beaten without them getting a single turn and getting multiple stuns in from Palpatine in the same battle.
I also understand the initial overreaction from RyDiggs. The developers are human, and the community seems to expect them to never express frustration and to act like robots all the time essentially. Frankly, I have been tired of staff that behave like robots all the time in video game forums so I like to see them behave like humans. It has got to be frustrating for CG members to see all their hard work trashed around so much among the community, and the heat has been pretty heavy since the Sith-raid release.
As I have said many times on this forum, a freemium game has different priorities for the developers from what we have grown accustomed to in other games. Profit-generating decisions will be very high on the list and 'small' bug-fixes will be a lot further down for the future of the game. This is just business. This is why I believe that micro-transactions has been unhealthy for the gaming world, but it is what it is. While I cannot say this with certainty for this game it is the impression I get after playing for a year and a half, and it is natural that it results in frustration from the community.
Yes, of course they are human, what a strange statement. Did anyone suggest that they were anything else? Joke.
You're correct, that everyone does experience frustration at work sometimes. Venting that frustration at, or in front of your customers is not something that can ever be considered a good idea, under any circumstances, if you wish to retain those customers.
He may well simply be the messenger pigeon, but if that pigeon defecates on you, you're not going to react well.
RyDiggs recognised this & has apologised for his overreaction.
His superiors recognised this and hurriedly put together an emergency Q & A to placate the community.
Why are people still debating this? Move on, nothing to see here.
Firstly, Im not understanding how the comments/responses from CG_RyDiggs (I dont know how to link...) are constructive. The OP made some valid points, and he should be free--and encouraged--to share his opinion to not "invest in any sith, especially sion." Even if you think it is not constructive, game, bashing, etc. You NEED to "tolerate" this. If this is how a fan feels, address it! Dont sink to the same salty level, and for a game that waits until august for content they announce in january, Id expect a little more patience and composure!
Further, you continually ask for evidence to support these claims. However, there is a laundry list of things (known bugs/QoL requests/etc.) that are clearly back by evidence that CG does nothing about. Oh but sthan is undermining our poorly planned and tested raid--and thats an insta fix? It is no secret that fans HATE when CG releases an event with zero notice (current JTR and BB8 events <- evidence). And yet youd rather take the time argue with trolls--and stooping to one yourself.
Mod management? hahahahahaha
All of these things (including a players advice to not invest in toons/packs/etc.) are all too valid. And further, what incites fans to decry aspects of the game are the overt and predatory tactics the game uses (timed bonuses/ no event notice/etc.). More evidence for the aforementioned FACT:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/7oyrsq/apple_loot_box_policy_changes/
I emailed CG requesting the odds of their loot boxes, and was given 100 complementary crystals and asked to continue enjoying the game. The basic question here is, how are NOT disclosing these odds helping your player base?
In summary:
1) It is wrong for anyone--especially a dev--to "not tolerate" a players feedback when it is legitimate. And "consider this your warning..." That's pretty messed up on multiple levels, but I think abuse of power is at the top of that list.
2) The OP feedback was and is legitimate. That is not an opinion. He feels that there is an aspect of the game that is flawed, and he is warning other players about it. Dont like it? Sorry? Maybe address his concerns in a respectful way?
3) The vehemence among this community is in large part a result of the business tactics used by CG to exploit addictive tendencies.
4) Is your time not better spent addressing other known bugs and QoL requests than engaging in this behavior?
Lastly, and perhaps most important, you were very kind to provide others on this thread with resources to address their shortcomings--and so, my gift to you:
Look forward to hearing back!
To the OP it wasnt a great post to be fair but if i was 'handled' the way you were i would have been making an official complaint for the way i was treated on a public forum by a company representive.. no word of a lie i was reading some of the responses and was kind of thinking its what you see when someone gets in to drunk war on a forum...
Been playing for 2+ years and on forums for most of that but wow never have i been so shocked at a companys response to a post... not just the initial one but it just continued and continued..
Starting to use these forums less and less and when you see this just backs up my thoughts why..
I mean no offense to those CG people that are helpful and constructive but this thread was a let down for all of the forum and "community"