Sith raid - fatigue

Replies

  • ThePenguin77
    185 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Youtubers post guides about squads that deal around 0.7% of Sith health and they count is as good amount. 0.7%!!!! This has 4 stages!
  • Devs are gonna have to implement a tool that lets people automatically auto their entire roster. Once we have Traya, no way people are going to want to put in 2-6 hours of raiding for Rancor level rewards.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
  • t0neg0d wrote: »
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    CT11190 wrote: »
    Drakkon wrote: »
    I disagree with most of you. Its not that bad.. once many of you have the gear, zetas and characters needed.. you will be farming HSith like you farm Haat. Just give it time. This raid is not supposed to be "easy"

    Why do people, and the devs, keep saying "It's not supposed to be easy" to defend against the complaints?
    People aren't complaining that i is too hard, they are saying it it boring. There is a huge difference.
    Seriously, it's starting to get really frusterating.
    Listen too what people are saying when they are being critical of the raid, stop with the strawmanning...please.
    :(

    Stop assuming things?
    Build a better squad?
    Gear up?

    Read again laddie, generally speaking the complaint , and frustration , is because it's not easy. As in, it's hard and they can't auto or use existing raid squads as effectively , do you see ?

    Call it whining, call it frustration, call it whatever, it boils down to the same crying from Haat ,and that boils down to, you need new squads. Possibly even new chars that are not released, or haven't been figured out yet. Since it's not easy, it's now boring, it's now not worth the time , it's frustrating, . .lol What people keep overlooking, and seem to dismiss out of hand because it is an uncomfortable truth, is that the new raid is supposed to be a pain in the rear, and annoying , it's not supposed to be a snap, nor easy, nor simple, if that was the case, what exactly is the point of even releasing it?

    You having too hard a time in STR ? Then drop a tier, that don't work, then find another guild. Boring and too hard go hand in hand and the sooner you see that , the sooner you will get the point. But, you can get better , which in turn reduces the hardness, or drop a tier, and that in turn reduces the "boring".

    You are equating this raid with aat/haat but after they reduced naat health they had a comparable health pool which eased up the initial complaints. T6 vs HSTR has 3 times more health.

    So are you implying that STR should be the same health as tank? Or are you missing how Haat was a couple magnitudes higher and harder then rancor, and now STR is a couple magnitudes harder then Haat , You do see how that works right? Haat was and is harder then rancor, STR was and is harder then Haat , that is the point.

    I think you are completely missing the point...

    1. This raid is an incredible TIME SINK.
    2. QoL updates have always been about reducing the amount of time we have to dedicate to a MOBILE GAME.
    3. They follow up all the QoL updates with a new raid that requires 4x the amount of time I've EVER had to spend on this game.

    So, the net result is, im spending more time than ever & its starting to make me consider leaving the game. Others already have. Guilds are disbanding. And people are moving on.

    So, either CG tries to do some damage control, or they end up w/ a small player base who don't have a life. Which basically means buh bye game.

    No 1 gives a **** about the difficulty. They care about how much time is required... even at looooow tiers. The other complaints all still boil down to this raid being an insane time sink & not worth the effort. But guilds require participation... so, once again, people are gonna walk away because life > game.

    Drop a tier if your so over worked then, you kinda missed the train by the way. But thanks for trying

    Yeah... that'll work wonders.... if no one else is participating.

    Do you have any other mode than "intentionally st up id"?

    Sounds like you have more of a guild problem then anything else.

    It's not a guild problem. It's a game problem. And its game wide. When he said hes spending 4x more time on this game than before he isn't the only one.

    Dropping a tier isn't going to make this raid anymore fun or interesting.

    I like the idea of being able to auto your roster. Maybe 1 = 1 damage. I'd take that easily over having to do it 5x per day.
  • GnarlyBandit2015
    135 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    This grind hasn’t been worth the effort. I was excited to see a new raid with these characters, but I find myself hitting it with one team then putting the other 4 on auto. I’ve got 2 more HAAT raids to get GK to 7*. That was my original end game plan and it looks like I’ll stick with it. This now just becomes an activity while I’m going to the bathroom. I like the game enough to buy $20 on crystals every few week, but that’s come to an end.

    I’m in a great guild with no drama, but it’s a burnout with this raid. Maybe raising to level 90 and fixing the mechanics on nihilus instead of nerfing toons and raid rewards would help. It looks more like poor unit testing and a cash grab by CG when they make updates that punish the player.
  • Mzee
    1777 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I'm burning out right now solely cause of the frustrating mechanics in this raid. (For Heroic)

    So RNG based that I have to reset tons of times. People in my guild spend hours just resetting cause the RNG is not in their favor for every raid. This happens in pretty much all phases. It took me exactly 70 attempts just now to do my phase 3 with the Commander Luke, Han Solo, Death Trooper, Pao, Chirrut team, and I had to settle for a sub-par run cause Daze got applied by one of the sabers in the middle of his stand alone. I just came on here to complain because CG need to do something to the mechanics so this does not continue. If it was based on skill, and strategy then it would be one thing, but it is pure randomness. What Sabers show up? Who do they debuff? Who does she saber storm? Who gets isolated. My guild has had long term members quit who have been playing for 2 years already. We are bound to lose more at this rate.
  • Mzee
    1777 posts Member
    Not to mention that I have to change mods back and forth between each run since the sith raid requires you to mod your characters differently, and we still have no mod sets or tools to assist...
  • jjkriv
    428 posts Member
    Funny thing is, I only do part 1without auto so my teamates can get engaged somewhat in the raid in other phases and we only do tier 4(currently in 5..what a mistake)I auto the rest and i still end up placing.I still enjoy the game as a whole but completely turned off spending funds here-Too many negatives of late to peak my attention.
  • Up the time/effort=reward quotient and it's all ok. Right now the rewards just aren't worth the time it takes to do well. Grievous **** too but we all slogged through it cause the rewards were worth it. These rewards suck, plain and simple. For defeating the "best" raid you should get the best rewards, heroic or otherwise
  • We have 10-20 players posing 0's out of boredom in Sith raid. Are we supposed to kick half of our guild because the developers put out boring end game content with meager rewards? If we did kick them , are there enough players out there that engage in the Sith raid available to fill in The empty sports? Even our top contributors find it boring but luckily they haven't given up on it yet.
    Two Time Golden Poo Award Winner
  • rokota
    139 posts Member
    We are a small guild (25 members, almost 15m GP) and started our first try on tier 4 on the day it was introduced to the game. Tier 4 description said it should be for 4*, level 70 and gear 8, which is for our roosters not a very high difficulty. And even if we exceed the requirements for this raid we aren‘t able to finish it to this day!!!
    Yes, we are in the last days in P4 but it was sooooooo annoying after a few days. I e.g. run all 5 teams on every single day without using auto, trying to figure out what works good, how the mechanics work etc., but i can‘t do more than 500k damage per day. And now we are with all members of our guild together at approx. 250m damage!!!

    That isn‘t really funny! It is ok to introduce a new and special raid, but if you exceed the requirements AND still need 4 weeks to complete it, something‘s going horribly wrong!

    Pit and Haat we are doing T6 once a week. Pit we could do more often but it lacks of tickets. And now this Sith Raid on P4, collecting tickets but needing weeks to complete? If this was intentional they should multiply the rewards by 5 times or so! If we‘ll sometimes finishing this first try i don‘t think we will do another one until the difficulty will fit to the specific requirements!

    I know most discussions here belongs to heroic tier but for smaller guilds this setting is a kick in the **** on lower levels :(
  • TVF
    25880 posts Member
    rokota wrote: »
    We are a small guild (25 members, almost 15m GP) and started our first try on tier 4 on the day it was introduced to the game. Tier 4 description said it should be for 4*, level 70 and gear 8, which is for our roosters not a very high difficulty. And even if we exceed the requirements for this raid we aren‘t able to finish it to this day!!!

    Well there's your problem, raid bosses are immune to rooster claws.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • We are a somewhat active 60 million GP guild. Finished T4 earlier today, and after rewards were received, a brief discussion was held about where to go. We went with T3. The reasons were horrible rewards, less interest, and a lack of participants. Yeah, I used to think this would be a guild/leadership issue. Funny thing is now there seems to be a guild issue with almost every guild.

    Rancor and HAAT are still getting guild participants, so I definitely know it's the sith raid. At least in our case. We may well never see Heroic sith as a guild, people who want to do it, will eventually have to leave. If they can find a guild that can do heroic, that has members who don't already have Traya.

    We're going backwards, not forwards.

    Thanks
  • Ikky2win wrote: »
    It’s mainly just the phases with Nihilus. His mechanics just beat down players’ morale. No one minds doing phases 2 and 3 or phase 4 after Nihilus is dead. Not being being able to hit him with basics s lot of the time, getting punished for characters counterattacking, and unpredictable annihilates just make people not want to do it. It’s simply not fun. Everything else with the raid is fine in my opinion.

    This sums up my experience with this raid, and everything I have seen in guild chat. It seems amazingly consistent in the comments. Normally a thread like this has a nearly equal number of people defending the design choice, or calling those who don't like it names. There is none of that in this thread... just violent agreement that Nihilus's mechanics are not fun.

    Devs, please take note and at least let us know you have heard the complaints. If you think life will get easier with the bounty hunter update or something else you have planned, give us something to help us during this time of ultimate frustration. If you really do like the raid as is and don't have any plans to change it, I guess knowing that would be good too. I just can't believe that is the case.

  • kalidor
    1966 posts Member
    Most of my fatigue from this raid comes from there being no break. One ends, then next one immediately starts. The health pools are so high for non-herioc that it becomes one long, continuous event. It'd feel less like a chore if it came around every 2-3 days like Rancor or Tank.
    xSWCr - Nov '15 shard - swgoh.gg kalidor-m
  • TVF
    25880 posts Member
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    It’s mainly just the phases with Nihilus. His mechanics just beat down players’ morale. No one minds doing phases 2 and 3 or phase 4 after Nihilus is dead. Not being being able to hit him with basics s lot of the time, getting punished for characters counterattacking, and unpredictable annihilates just make people not want to do it. It’s simply not fun. Everything else with the raid is fine in my opinion.

    This sums up my experience with this raid, and everything I have seen in guild chat. It seems amazingly consistent in the comments. Normally a thread like this has a nearly equal number of people defending the design choice, or calling those who don't like it names. There is none of that in this thread... just violent agreement that Nihilus's mechanics are not fun.

    Devs, please take note and at least let us know you have heard the complaints. If you think life will get easier with the bounty hunter update or something else you have planned, give us something to help us during this time of ultimate frustration. If you really do like the raid as is and don't have any plans to change it, I guess knowing that would be good too. I just can't believe that is the case.

    Hmm, I swear I've defended it but I'm a bit on an island. And I like that we run it almost continuously, it's always around when I want to play.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • I wonder how many
    TVF wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    It’s mainly just the phases with Nihilus. His mechanics just beat down players’ morale. No one minds doing phases 2 and 3 or phase 4 after Nihilus is dead. Not being being able to hit him with basics s lot of the time, getting punished for characters counterattacking, and unpredictable annihilates just make people not want to do it. It’s simply not fun. Everything else with the raid is fine in my opinion.

    This sums up my experience with this raid, and everything I have seen in guild chat. It seems amazingly consistent in the comments. Normally a thread like this has a nearly equal number of people defending the design choice, or calling those who don't like it names. There is none of that in this thread... just violent agreement that Nihilus's mechanics are not fun.

    Devs, please take note and at least let us know you have heard the complaints. If you think life will get easier with the bounty hunter update or something else you have planned, give us something to help us during this time of ultimate frustration. If you really do like the raid as is and don't have any plans to change it, I guess knowing that would be good too. I just can't believe that is the case.

    Hmm, I swear I've defended it but I'm a bit on an island. And I like that we run it almost continuously, it's always around when I want to play.

    You are the only person defending it (partially because you're a forum troll). Though I'm sure in a couple of weeks you will start feeling it too. New people are cropping up in this thread almost daily . It eventually beats you down.

    Will the devs do anything about ? Maybe if they feel its hitting the bottom line.
  • Jedi_of_Oz wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I hope everyone in my two arena shards doesn't play it.

    At the very least, they should remove the limit of 5 squads per day for T6 and below. P1 and P3 have one specialist team that can make significant progress through the phase. Others squads are midling at best in those phases. P2 perhaps 4-5 squads, with P4 being situational depending on which boss is being targeted. A limit of 5 squads per day just prolongs the agony for most guilds.



    This is a marvelous idea AND fits within CG's apparent direction (TB, TW, etc) to develop as many teams as possible. Sure we would finish raids a little sooner but we also have reason to develop more teams which could be a money maker.
  • Javabeeker
    56 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    My guild is just above 50M gp and we struggle to finish T4 in less than a week to 10 days. We have done one T4 and at least one T3 prior. My main gripes are twofold: first, the rewards, and yes I get that they are updating them, but I still can’t see how it’s worth the time, really, compared to Hrancor or even NAAT. We currently can’t beat HAAT, but the rewards in Hrancor/NAAT are wayyyyy better than STHR - I was simply shocked/stunned (dazed? :) when I saw the rewards, or lack thereof. To borrow a movie line: ‘You’ve got to be kidding me.’ Second, I can put together three teams or so to do anywhere from 750k - 1.2m damage v. Traya, which is fine, but seemingly every other combo of toons all do either the same amount of damage per team (~500k), or almost none at all (<150k). This tells me that the phases are broken because the devs attempts to create an engaging game have simply created a very limited game, i.e., if you don’t have a couple of VERY SPECIFIC teams nothing you do makes much difference. Where’s the strategy needed in that? Why aren’t there other possible team combos that work well? Because in making Nihilus, etc., so overpowered with negating effects, prot. regen, etc., they took away most of the abilities and thus utility of the vast number of toons. The game was already trending to the metas of 8 or 10 Super-toons, this just reinforces the lack of a place for most of the other toons. For example, why do they keep forcing ewoks on us in limited events? Because nobody wants to use them for anything! I refuse to level up my ewoks just to spite the developers on that one, but I digress...Simply stated, the effort/difficulty balance of the STR seems way off except for super guilds at 150M gp! give or take - they seem to have a raid worthy of their level now with either T6 or HSTR, brut the rest of us middle of the road players, not much benefit for a whole lot of time.
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • I have read this series of posts. To give some background I have played this game since January 2016 and have led a Guild since a month after I started. We currently are at 102 million GP. I have to agree that the Sith Raid has been detrimental to the player base and morale in many guilds. I get it, it is supposed to be a challenge but for God sakes it should not be a way of life.

    When guilds and players have to plan their real life around the detailed and proper execution of an event day after day I for one say that is too much. No matter whether the rewards are great or horrible, a game should not take it's toll on fifty people and more. The thing I notice mostly is frustration forming into lack of play in other aspects of the game and less and less participation week after week. EA/Capital I really hope you are reading these posts and taking them to heart. There are other things to do and games to play out there. This game is a great game with a horrible addition being the Sith Raid.

    Thanks.
  • So do the Devs even read this section? Are we all just being ignored? After hearing about the health of the game being so important in basically every Q&A it seems silly they are ignoring this. I don't understand how they could be happy with the raid at this point.
    I'm glad they are reversing the decision on the rewards for now, but that doesn't stem the problem of burn out.
    They wanted a difficult raid but I'm sticking to my guns they overshot the mark big time.

    Almost no one is having fun with this raid, be it a t3 guild, or heroic. This needs to be addressed.
  • I'm sure it would be a wait and see approach if the devs did.. they will introduce a slew of pay toons to make the raid easier.
  • TVF
    25880 posts Member
    I wonder how many
    TVF wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    It’s mainly just the phases with Nihilus. His mechanics just beat down players’ morale. No one minds doing phases 2 and 3 or phase 4 after Nihilus is dead. Not being being able to hit him with basics s lot of the time, getting punished for characters counterattacking, and unpredictable annihilates just make people not want to do it. It’s simply not fun. Everything else with the raid is fine in my opinion.

    This sums up my experience with this raid, and everything I have seen in guild chat. It seems amazingly consistent in the comments. Normally a thread like this has a nearly equal number of people defending the design choice, or calling those who don't like it names. There is none of that in this thread... just violent agreement that Nihilus's mechanics are not fun.

    Devs, please take note and at least let us know you have heard the complaints. If you think life will get easier with the bounty hunter update or something else you have planned, give us something to help us during this time of ultimate frustration. If you really do like the raid as is and don't have any plans to change it, I guess knowing that would be good too. I just can't believe that is the case.

    Hmm, I swear I've defended it but I'm a bit on an island. And I like that we run it almost continuously, it's always around when I want to play.

    You are the only person defending it (partially because you're a forum troll).

    Don't be ridiculous. I enjoy working on new team comps and new toons. I enjoy always having a raid to do. P1 is occasionally frustrating when I mistime annihilate but mostly I get it right and it's fun to play. P2 and P3 are even better. The only phase I dislike is P4 and that's only because I haven't been able to figure out a way to put good numbers up yet.

    If you think I'm just pretending to like it so I can troll people, you're being extremely paranoid.

    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    I wonder how many
    TVF wrote: »
    Ikky2win wrote: »
    It’s mainly just the phases with Nihilus. His mechanics just beat down players’ morale. No one minds doing phases 2 and 3 or phase 4 after Nihilus is dead. Not being being able to hit him with basics s lot of the time, getting punished for characters counterattacking, and unpredictable annihilates just make people not want to do it. It’s simply not fun. Everything else with the raid is fine in my opinion.

    This sums up my experience with this raid, and everything I have seen in guild chat. It seems amazingly consistent in the comments. Normally a thread like this has a nearly equal number of people defending the design choice, or calling those who don't like it names. There is none of that in this thread... just violent agreement that Nihilus's mechanics are not fun.

    Devs, please take note and at least let us know you have heard the complaints. If you think life will get easier with the bounty hunter update or something else you have planned, give us something to help us during this time of ultimate frustration. If you really do like the raid as is and don't have any plans to change it, I guess knowing that would be good too. I just can't believe that is the case.

    Hmm, I swear I've defended it but I'm a bit on an island. And I like that we run it almost continuously, it's always around when I want to play.

    You are the only person defending it (partially because you're a forum troll).

    Don't be ridiculous. I enjoy working on new team comps and new toons. I enjoy always having a raid to do. P1 is occasionally frustrating when I mistime annihilate but mostly I get it right and it's fun to play. P2 and P3 are even better. The only phase I dislike is P4 and that's only because I haven't been able to figure out a way to put good numbers up yet.

    If you think I'm just pretending to like it so I can troll people, you're being extremely paranoid.

    TVF isn't a troll, you just don't agree with him.

    I too defend the design of STR. I think all the mechanics of the opponent are fine the way they are. I think the health pool is too high, but other than that its fine.

    I've said this many times, but the primary contributor to raid fatigue are guild leaders who insist on running the highest tier they can beat in 2 - 3 days. My 126mm GP guild does 2 T5's that take about 2 days to clear at a casual pace. Then does 2 T4's which each take less than 10 hours to defeat so we can clear raid tickets and relax for a couple of days.

    1) we're not wasting tickets
    2) we're getting guild coins and gearing up our heroic teams
    3) staying far far far far far away from T6 because we already beat it so when we're ready we'll jump straight from T5 to T7. If you're pushing your guild into the max tier you can complete without wasting tickets you're doing it wrong.
    4) no quitters in our guild because leadership is managing the difficulty so that we can both test team comps and get down time.
  • I have seen a number of plays quit the last few weeks... and most are getting burnt out. I couldn't figure why with the sith raid and the all that excitement. We, like many guilds are able to t6 in a pretty reasonable time frame... the rewards are total horse manure but otherwise it was good well.

    So we completed it in about 4 or 5 resets.. then again .. and again.. and now we have gotten it down to within 4 resets. We tried heroic but not enough strong jtr teams... so we again did t6.. and again...

    I'm starting to feel this same fatigue as the others.. and I realized what it is.... t6... it requires me to play 5 teams per day...

    every day.

    We immediately start it up again and then every day.. 5 fights.

    It's the constant never ending same 5 fights per day pretty much.. and it's just not fun at all.

    I know they are going to revamp rewards.. but that won't solve the issue. I dont care for a few more gold pieces.

    I don't know what the solution is. Maybe you reward traya shards in t6. I know that won't be a popular idea but I don't know what the plan is to stop people from leaving.

    Yeah, the levels are not properly identified. It's a beast set up for people without jobs and without any desire for reward. My guild takes a couple swats a day... half dont even participate anymore. I'm thinking of calling it quits myself. Whats the point? Just a waste of time... like when tank raid came out. The devs have no understanding of their own leveling system... but that true throughout the game. "Hey Johnny... this new stage has taken out my gear 12, level 85, 7* characters 8 times in a row. What level should we tell the players it was designed for?" Johnny ponders a moment, "Tell them it's designed for level 70, gear 8, 6*." Uh-huh... yeah, thats the ticket.
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    AtlasMKx wrote: »
    So do the Devs even read this section? Are we all just being ignored? After hearing about the health of the game being so important in basically every Q&A it seems silly they are ignoring this. I don't understand how they could be happy with the raid at this point.
    I'm glad they are reversing the decision on the rewards for now, but that doesn't stem the problem of burn out.
    They wanted a difficult raid but I'm sticking to my guns they overshot the mark big time.

    Almost no one is having fun with this raid, be it a t3 guild, or heroic. This needs to be addressed.

    I think my guild is having fun in heroic. There's a 24 hour no dmg rule and it still gets beaten within a couple hours. P1 especially is a huge chunk of damage where you snooze you lose. Then there's the Sion/DN sniperino in P4 and the zerg fest after those 2 are down.

    And no, I'm not TVF or a forum troll.
  • TVF
    25880 posts Member
    Huatimus wrote: »
    And no, I'm not TVF or a forum troll.

    You said "or" which proves I'm not a forum troll either!
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Huatimus wrote: »
    And no, I'm not TVF or a forum troll.

    You said "or" which proves I'm not a forum troll either!

    You're only a troll when you disagree with ME! :D
  • TVF
    25880 posts Member
    You joke but some people here seem to think that way for real.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Huatimus
    3669 posts Member
    They obviously have not read any of the posts coming from a certain B0untryMalbus
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