I only commented because I enjoy the fact they can crank out fixes like no ones business when it affects them. But if it benefits "the players" the fix will be completed when they get to it.
Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.
It's more like removing the wheel and saying "Drive something else" -- that is if they wreck the NS team comp in the process of this. Their record of fixing these sorts of issues leads most of us to believe they will just hit the NS team with a hammer when they can almost certainly find a much much more elegant solution to this.
The issue that has players worried isn't that they'll block this infinite loop -- which they absolutely should because it is nonsense. It is that they will fix this by ruining a team many of us spent considerable resources building and that many people are actively working toward. When the Acolyte strategy emerged, the vast majority of seasoned players knew it was going to be nerfed - it's just a neat novelty. But those same seasoned players immediately recognized that the nerf might destroy something they are using, and do have.
First off, I get why this is done. Don’t try to argue it was needed, because I get it.
That said, this is just sucking the fun out of the game. We like trying to build stuff like this. It’s fun to do. We like figuring out ways to make the raid easier. I was looking forward to doing this. When the community finds legitimate strategies to win and you take them away it really ticks us off. Even if we understand why you made the move.
Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.
It's more the fact that we took our car in months ago like they asked (feedback/lower tier rewards) but they still haven't repaired it as somebody's Lamborghini (heroic/whale guilds) takes priority.
We invent a new turbo charger, that whilst not many have access to it, they uninstall and burn all the blueprints for it. Then continually empty a garbage truck into non-lamborghini owners yards.
I'm trying desperately to rationalize how they could have thought this was a good or needed idea with the amount of flack they are taking over the feedback thread... timing aside.
* Why is this being called an asajj/acolyte issue when it only works due to traya?
* Why would they make a huge issue over this w/ the current saltiness of the general player-base concerning STR? While ignoring the issues that actually matter.
If this really is some attempt to set us up for bigger spending, I feel really bad for whoever's name @ CG is sitting next to that proposal.
Crazy how fast they’ll “fix” something but how difficult it is for them to get rid of challenge gear or improve the terrible STR rewards for T1-6...... anybody else tired of the excuses?
I have invested heavily in NS towards the goal of being useful in the STR... it'll be hard, with so much time and money invested in the game, but if they use this as an excuse to nerf NS in any way, I'm most likely gone.
As long as they take the aforementioned and common sense solution proposed several times in this thread (reduce/remove the health steal from isolate against Bosses), I actually approve of the fix from the long term health perspective of the game.
Leaving this in play would let just about every player who gains a 7* Traya immediately jump to one of the hundreds if not thousands of ‘almost heroic ready’ guilds and for 20 odd minutes of playtime every raid just sit in the top spot and gain the g12+ rewards almost infinitely (why sit in a guild taking 25th-50th place rewards when you could be one of the rich get much richer, because they could just keep Guild hopping as the guild gets closer to 7* trayas of their own). It also gets tons of entire guilds onto getting Traya shards much faster. Which would propagate her and the better g12+ pieces into the game faster than intended.
Now, if they muck about with the Ventress lead... whole other story.
It’s the track record. We all know that ns is going to be nullified. Happy to be wrong.
Also - the communication when something is clearly affecting cg as opposed to us. But I am happy they said it here
I love the minds that work this out and see it come into fruition. I give you guys so much credit for being this in tune with the game. Yet I understand the need to fix it. It’s the devs world we just play in it.
The game truly is like gambling. The house has the advantage and when someone figures out a way to even the odds they send out the security team to make sure they know they won’t be taken advantage of.
Yup and I believe they should. I like the challenge of this raid. It sucks the rewards aren't better, but this isn't going to change. So I just sit back and play as often as I feel like it.
So let me get this straight. Someone finds a team that can clear a single phase in HSTR. A team that requires a 7* character that you can only get from the STR itself. A character that if you finished in the 6 shard tier on average would take 56 raids to obtain. In no way easy whatsoever.
The response is to immediately change the mechanics. Hmmm...here’s why I think that’s beyond asinine.
1.) it’s not an easy strategy. You need to work your butt off to obtain it and it’s not an issue yet. Surely only a fraction of players have a 7* traya yet.
2.) It’s not a full solo. It helps with one aspect of the raid. It doesn’t work anywhere else. So how it underminds the raid and the “intent” is beyond me.
3.) it’s not a NS issue, it’s an isolate issue as it pertains to raid bosses. If you fixed that, then fine, but given recent history, you’ll try and change their mechanics to which you will face yet another pre craft mod exodus.
4.) You’re quick to answer this, which isn’t even a major deal, yet you’ll totally ignore the cries from thousands of players for better raid rewards across all tiers and a reduction in health for tier 1-6. Any mod care to explain why the raid takes almost a week to finish based on the horrible health pool?
Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.
It's more like removing the wheel and saying "Drive something else" -- that is if they wreck the NS team comp in the process of this. Their record of fixing these sorts of issues leads most of us to believe they will just hit the NS team with a hammer when they can almost certainly find a much much more elegant solution to this.
The issue that has players worried isn't that they'll block this infinite loop -- which they absolutely should because it is nonsense. It is that they will fix this by ruining a team many of us spent considerable resources building and that many people are actively working toward. When the Acolyte strategy emerged, the vast majority of seasoned players knew it was going to be nerfed - it's just a neat novelty. But those same seasoned players immediately recognized that the nerf might destroy something they are using, and do have.
Ok remove the wheel from a Bentley, I still dont drive one. And to the people complaining about "IF" get over it, cause it hasn't happened.
I am going to starting complaining to the sun "if" it decides to shine tomorrow my day will be ruined.
Why don't you also fix the infinite sabers throws Traya gets when we only have 1 or 2 attackers left ?
This strategy you say you are fixing requires the ultimate character in the game. This character has to have some meaning and relevance for the game. I think it was appropriate allowing to clear one phase of this new raid. And giving another option than the usual and boring Chex mix.
Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.
Better analogy: Bentley model is found to have design defect with its breaks. Bentley crashes into your Hyundai. The police write up a report that it was the Hyundai owner’s fault because they don’t want to get the Bentley owners mad and because the police have been trying to bust you for a while because they don’t like you.
Goodness, all this grief from a bunch of people that couldn't even do this anyway. It's like being upset with Bentley because they decided to remove cup holders. You dont have Bentley so no worries.
It's more like removing the wheel and saying "Drive something else" -- that is if they wreck the NS team comp in the process of this. Their record of fixing these sorts of issues leads most of us to believe they will just hit the NS team with a hammer when they can almost certainly find a much much more elegant solution to this.
The issue that has players worried isn't that they'll block this infinite loop -- which they absolutely should because it is nonsense. It is that they will fix this by ruining a team many of us spent considerable resources building and that many people are actively working toward. When the Acolyte strategy emerged, the vast majority of seasoned players knew it was going to be nerfed - it's just a neat novelty. But those same seasoned players immediately recognized that the nerf might destroy something they are using, and do have.
Ok remove the wheel from a Bentley, I still dont drive one. And to the people complaining about "IF" get over it, cause it hasn't happened.
I am going to starting complaining to the sun "if" it decides to shine tomorrow my day will be ruined.
Cookie for consistantly missing the point.
1. We rely on Asajj led NS to take down HSTR.
2. This "infinte loop" revolves around isolate (a traya skill), but is being stated as an asajj/acolyte issue.
The "if" in this case is a major deal & the notification is pointing at the wrong characters to fix this issue.
I'm at a loss for how you are missing this... some of us have (or almost have) a Bentley. If this fix isn't handled properly, we'll be the last ones that do for a while.
They threw it out there before they did it... presumably to get a measure of sentiment and mitigate the backlash from whatever they do... once it is done, our chance to be heard is finished.
Now is the time to speak up and let them know that it matters... a lot.
Funny how we find a loophole to their poorly designed raid, and they immediately come in for a nerf, but totally fail to solve real problems like challenge gear in raids.
I'm no rocket scientist and I get that the Sthan thing "may" have squeezed through the cracks and needed to be nerfed , but after around 7 months no one's thought hmmm Traya presents a problem let's fix it before it becomes one. This after already nerfing the previous acolyte issue? Really you caught that one but not this potential. Now junk rewards, junk raid, junk mechanics, junk experience at this point. G12+ weeee who care top 3 only get it creating a bigger gap. This raid was supposed to be the coolest most fun around and had done nothing but get anything involved around it destroyed. Perhaps it's time to expand the gamechanger program for outside testing as the inside team can never catch anything due to lack of work hours.
They threw it out there before they did it... presumably to get a measure of sentiment and mitigate the backlash from whatever they do... once it is done, our chance to be heard is finished.
Now is the time to speak up and let them know that it matters... a lot.
History would indicate that no matter what sentiment or cogent points might get made here, they will decide what they want to do and do it regardless of how it affects us. This is how things have always operated around here.
We need a straw poll - if they nerf Asajj leadership so it isn't useful in HSTR P4, will you demand a zeta refund? I sure will! It is literally the only really good reason to get her zeta, and they have had to refund in the past.
Funny how we find a loophole to their poorly designed raid, and they immediately come in for a nerf, but totally fail to solve real problems like challenge gear in raids.
Crazy how fast they’ll “fix” something but how difficult it is for them to get rid of challenge gear or improve the terrible STR rewards for T1-6...... anybody else tired of the excuses?
Excuses suggests there's a level of communication.
Nope, when it comes to the Sith Raid, CG has gone into full ostrich mode. Head meet sand.
If CG changes the way Isolate works with Raid Bosses, fine. If they nerf Asajj's leadership so that Nightsisters as a whole get nerfed for P4? There will be fire and brimstone.
They have said it before. They don't like our low gear zombies. This gives them all the reason they need to do something about it, and kill a ftp P4 solution in the process. Nightsisters are going down. My guess is the fix will involve something that makes low gear zombie no longer viable.
These analogies are all terrible. People are mad about this for a couple of very legitimate reasons.
1. They are worried, given CG’s track record, that they will use a hammer instead of a scalpel to fix the issue by nerfing Asajj’s leadership which is crucial for the traditional NS team in Phase 4. It is the only phase of the raid that doesn’t feel like a tedious grind or RNG roulette. Nerfing Asajj’s leadership would be a horrible mistake, and people are voicing their concerns in the hopes the devs will pay attention for once.
2. While this needs to be fixed (carefully), it is hard to ignore the fact that when a mechanic is discovered that can provide a shortcut to completing the raid, CG responds within hours. Yet they have ignored for months the litany of problems with the raid that make it almost universally despised among the player base including:
- a disappointing rewards structure
- mechanics that are far too RNG dependent and necessitate multiple restarts for the few teams capable of posting respectable damage
- health pool for lower tiers that require a time investment that far exceeds the value of the rewards received.
2B. They started a thread asking for feedback on the raid and promised improved communication on these forums. Yet the provided feedback has been completely ignored for more than two months now. When you can’t be bothered to address the fact that the players almost unanimously hate everything about your end game raid, particularly how long and tedious it is, but you respond to a perceived shortcut for one phase of that raid that almost no one can actually use at the moment as if a hospital is on fire, it comes across as rather insulting to all of those people who have been begging for reasonable changes that would make things a bit easier or more enjoyable from the players’ end of things.
These analogies are all terrible. People are mad about this for a couple of very legitimate reasons.
1. They are worried, given CG’s track record, that they will use a hammer instead of a scalpel to fix the issue by nerfing Asajj’s leadership which is crucial for the traditional NS team in Phase 4. It is the only phase of the raid that doesn’t feel like a tedious grind or RNG roulette. Nerfing Asajj’s leadership would be a horrible mistake, and people are voicing their concerns in the hopes the devs will pay attention for once.
2. While this needs to be fixed (carefully), it is hard to ignore the fact that when a mechanic is discovered that can provide a shortcut to completing the raid, CG responds within hours. Yet they have ignored for months the litany of problems with the raid that make it almost universally despised among the player base including:
- a disappointing rewards structure
- mechanics that are far too RNG dependent and necessitate multiple restarts for the few teams capable of posting respectable damage
- health pool for lower tiers that require a time investment that far exceeds the value of the rewards received.
2B. They started a thread asking for feedback on the raid and promised improved communication on these forums. Yet the provided feedback has been completely ignored for more than two months now. When you can’t be bothered to address the fact that the players almost unanimously hate everything about your end game raid, particularly how long and tedious it is, but you respond to a perceived shortcut for one phase of that raid that almost no one can actually use at the moment as if a hospital is on fire, it comes across as rather insulting to all of those people who have been begging for reasonable changes that would make things a bit easier or more enjoyable from the players’ end of things.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Hammer instead of a scalpel. Too good and too true. Superbly said. And great analogies.
This is a perfect example of the devs acting like the kid that turns off the video game right before they lose. We find a flaw in their bogus raid and they’re like “we’ll show them by nerfing everything”. Just them showing their true colors
Replies
Yep. Agree
It's more like removing the wheel and saying "Drive something else" -- that is if they wreck the NS team comp in the process of this. Their record of fixing these sorts of issues leads most of us to believe they will just hit the NS team with a hammer when they can almost certainly find a much much more elegant solution to this.
The issue that has players worried isn't that they'll block this infinite loop -- which they absolutely should because it is nonsense. It is that they will fix this by ruining a team many of us spent considerable resources building and that many people are actively working toward. When the Acolyte strategy emerged, the vast majority of seasoned players knew it was going to be nerfed - it's just a neat novelty. But those same seasoned players immediately recognized that the nerf might destroy something they are using, and do have.
That said, this is just sucking the fun out of the game. We like trying to build stuff like this. It’s fun to do. We like figuring out ways to make the raid easier. I was looking forward to doing this. When the community finds legitimate strategies to win and you take them away it really ticks us off. Even if we understand why you made the move.
It's more the fact that we took our car in months ago like they asked (feedback/lower tier rewards) but they still haven't repaired it as somebody's Lamborghini (heroic/whale guilds) takes priority.
We invent a new turbo charger, that whilst not many have access to it, they uninstall and burn all the blueprints for it. Then continually empty a garbage truck into non-lamborghini owners yards.
I'm trying desperately to rationalize how they could have thought this was a good or needed idea with the amount of flack they are taking over the feedback thread... timing aside.
* Why is this being called an asajj/acolyte issue when it only works due to traya?
* Why would they make a huge issue over this w/ the current saltiness of the general player-base concerning STR? While ignoring the issues that actually matter.
If this really is some attempt to set us up for bigger spending, I feel really bad for whoever's name @ CG is sitting next to that proposal.
This is going to backfire.
Leaving this in play would let just about every player who gains a 7* Traya immediately jump to one of the hundreds if not thousands of ‘almost heroic ready’ guilds and for 20 odd minutes of playtime every raid just sit in the top spot and gain the g12+ rewards almost infinitely (why sit in a guild taking 25th-50th place rewards when you could be one of the rich get much richer, because they could just keep Guild hopping as the guild gets closer to 7* trayas of their own). It also gets tons of entire guilds onto getting Traya shards much faster. Which would propagate her and the better g12+ pieces into the game faster than intended.
Now, if they muck about with the Ventress lead... whole other story.
Also - the communication when something is clearly affecting cg as opposed to us. But I am happy they said it here
I love the minds that work this out and see it come into fruition. I give you guys so much credit for being this in tune with the game. Yet I understand the need to fix it. It’s the devs world we just play in it.
Yup and I believe they should. I like the challenge of this raid. It sucks the rewards aren't better, but this isn't going to change. So I just sit back and play as often as I feel like it.
The response is to immediately change the mechanics. Hmmm...here’s why I think that’s beyond asinine.
1.) it’s not an easy strategy. You need to work your butt off to obtain it and it’s not an issue yet. Surely only a fraction of players have a 7* traya yet.
2.) It’s not a full solo. It helps with one aspect of the raid. It doesn’t work anywhere else. So how it underminds the raid and the “intent” is beyond me.
3.) it’s not a NS issue, it’s an isolate issue as it pertains to raid bosses. If you fixed that, then fine, but given recent history, you’ll try and change their mechanics to which you will face yet another pre craft mod exodus.
4.) You’re quick to answer this, which isn’t even a major deal, yet you’ll totally ignore the cries from thousands of players for better raid rewards across all tiers and a reduction in health for tier 1-6. Any mod care to explain why the raid takes almost a week to finish based on the horrible health pool?
Ok remove the wheel from a Bentley, I still dont drive one. And to the people complaining about "IF" get over it, cause it hasn't happened.
I am going to starting complaining to the sun "if" it decides to shine tomorrow my day will be ruined.
This strategy you say you are fixing requires the ultimate character in the game. This character has to have some meaning and relevance for the game. I think it was appropriate allowing to clear one phase of this new raid. And giving another option than the usual and boring Chex mix.
Better analogy: Bentley model is found to have design defect with its breaks. Bentley crashes into your Hyundai. The police write up a report that it was the Hyundai owner’s fault because they don’t want to get the Bentley owners mad and because the police have been trying to bust you for a while because they don’t like you.
Cookie for consistantly missing the point.
1. We rely on Asajj led NS to take down HSTR.
2. This "infinte loop" revolves around isolate (a traya skill), but is being stated as an asajj/acolyte issue.
The "if" in this case is a major deal & the notification is pointing at the wrong characters to fix this issue.
I'm at a loss for how you are missing this... some of us have (or almost have) a Bentley. If this fix isn't handled properly, we'll be the last ones that do for a while.
Now is the time to speak up and let them know that it matters... a lot.
History would indicate that no matter what sentiment or cogent points might get made here, they will decide what they want to do and do it regardless of how it affects us. This is how things have always operated around here.
This is not the first time.
Excuses suggests there's a level of communication.
Nope, when it comes to the Sith Raid, CG has gone into full ostrich mode. Head meet sand.
1. They are worried, given CG’s track record, that they will use a hammer instead of a scalpel to fix the issue by nerfing Asajj’s leadership which is crucial for the traditional NS team in Phase 4. It is the only phase of the raid that doesn’t feel like a tedious grind or RNG roulette. Nerfing Asajj’s leadership would be a horrible mistake, and people are voicing their concerns in the hopes the devs will pay attention for once.
2. While this needs to be fixed (carefully), it is hard to ignore the fact that when a mechanic is discovered that can provide a shortcut to completing the raid, CG responds within hours. Yet they have ignored for months the litany of problems with the raid that make it almost universally despised among the player base including:
- a disappointing rewards structure
- mechanics that are far too RNG dependent and necessitate multiple restarts for the few teams capable of posting respectable damage
- health pool for lower tiers that require a time investment that far exceeds the value of the rewards received.
2B. They started a thread asking for feedback on the raid and promised improved communication on these forums. Yet the provided feedback has been completely ignored for more than two months now. When you can’t be bothered to address the fact that the players almost unanimously hate everything about your end game raid, particularly how long and tedious it is, but you respond to a perceived shortcut for one phase of that raid that almost no one can actually use at the moment as if a hospital is on fire, it comes across as rather insulting to all of those people who have been begging for reasonable changes that would make things a bit easier or more enjoyable from the players’ end of things.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Hammer instead of a scalpel. Too good and too true. Superbly said. And great analogies.