The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
Quite a poor response in all honesty - and if anyone in my firm demonstrated a callous response to a concern raised they would know about it . At no point have I called for a buff, or demand he gets fixed. Merely pointing out the defficiencies.
Now onto the specifics:
1) Timeline for me the time between announcing SEE and the kit being announced. I wager many, including me, made a decision to go one of two ways. One route takes me to a viable all a bit underwhelming toon. The other a fifth wheel - and that’s being generous
2) Compare and contrast the ‘spiel’ selling each GL thus far with what was subsequently unlocked - all were fairly close to the mark by way of giving players an idea of what to expect. And now do this for SEE “....turns Palpetine into a devastating attacker”. Those players that have SEE with his ultimate will laugh at that statement. Nothing in what he does is even remotely close to this.
3) I do not regret any of resources I have expended to unlock the GL’s - the recent 2 were all f2p but SEE is not what he is billed to be in any aspect.
And my original point stands - SEE adds nothing to the table not because of individual aspects of his kit - but how it all comes together. That’s where this goes horribly wrong, and if I did not make that clear in my original point, then that’s on me. But that’s the issue here - the synergy does not work. Now explain to me how do I infer synergy from a textual description? The impact of mods, different teams, the ultimate etc etc. And now let’s overlay experience from the previous 3 GL’s and how they gave fared. I’d say that gives me a fair idea of what to expect - or so I thought.
Team based combat is based on the team being greater than the sum of its individual parts - every toon worth a **** does this - SEE does not.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
I am not blaming players for not recognizing flaws, but I will say that if you invested before having a kit to view, or feeling like a character doesn't fill a purpose, and hinders his own team after his kit was reveled .....all of which are spelled out in his kit, then I think you have to take some personal perspective on that situation.
as i said, just found it odd to come in with broad complaints about his kit in its entirety. when that is the case, just dont pursue a toon. they have proven time and time again that kits tend to stay relatively stable, short of some issue like an exploit of bug.
I not arguing that he should be this way, and that he is living up to the GL tag. I was also looking at poor game play and other factors when he came out in hopes that something was missing. This is seeming less and less like the case.
Kyno some time ago we received answer that to change SEE's kit we need valid reason, some fixes and bugs definitely will be done. Due to his kit See seems to be weak, please just compare Kylo has immense damage, Rey has immunity to damage and her damage is good enough, JML and his powerful allies, released quite not long ago perform good with millions of buffs and protection. When players have shown videos with Kylo soloing SEE, it was referred to rock, scissors, paper. From my opinion one Gl of the "same power level" soloing another Gl just create bad reputation for the toon, look we are not talking about Malak vs Ewoks or smth like that, we are talking about GLs of the same power level. And even this fact wasn't highlighted, as it's occurred 1vs5 of the same power level is not the valid reason to change his kit,
Seems the whole situation around the See will stay unchangeable. See was designed as add-on to existing 3 Gls, specifically to counter JML, Devs seems feel good about this, otherwise they will already implement some changes. The fact that SEE's kit is not very good for GA/TW and Arena just make us farm JML to hold top positions.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this?
I mean its always good to have arbitrary timelines, but why should/would it have been done by now?
still not answering the above questions.
They have stated they are keeping an eye on things. so there is some level of "not ok" with the current situation out there.
you are right we are not talking about malak or ewoks....which is probably why a GL beating another GL is not super concerning right off the bat. They have kind of given the impression that GL vs GL is the intended goal with GLs, so just because one can do it 1v5 doesnt raise a red flag for immediate action. but also doesn't mean it will not be addressed either.
The reason SLKR and other direct changes to new characters dont happen right away, unless for a bug or exploit, is they want to gather all the data, they dont want to make multiple rounds of changes if they can avoid it.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this? - I repeat, It was mentioned that for kit review is required a solid reson, 1vs5 seems you find normal, as there are GLs, i think when people spend the SAME time, money etc. for either SEE or Kylo, they didn't expect that 1 Gl will solo 5 top sith with Gl included, they don't think that the whole kit is just useless because it doesn't work against Kylo, when he soloes siths. Without thorough kit review seems SEE won't be good. You think and maybe someone else think that 1vs5 is good, i can say just for people from my guild when they saw this solo they didn't think that it's normal, because it's 1 or 2 Gl for them, they just said that Palp looks like a garbage, he is useless for arena, as it's not very good to use 2-3 teams to get top one for offense and one leave for defense after payout, as we have only 5 free attempts.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
Quite a poor response in all honesty - and if anyone in my firm demonstrated a callous response to a concern raised they would know about it . At no point have I called for a buff, or demand he gets fixed. Merely pointing out the defficiencies.
Now onto the specifics:
1) Timeline for me the time between announcing SEE and the kit being announced. I wager many, including me, made a decision to go one of two ways. One route takes me to a viable all a bit underwhelming toon. The other a fifth wheel - and that’s being generous
2) Compare and contrast the ‘spiel’ selling each GL thus far with what was subsequently unlocked - all were fairly close to the mark by way of giving players an idea of what to expect. And now do this for SEE “....turns Palpetine into a devastating attacker”. Those players that have SEE with his ultimate will laugh at that statement. Nothing in what he does is even remotely close to this.
3) I do not regret any of resources I have expended to unlock the GL’s - the recent 2 were all f2p but SEE is not what he is billed to be in any aspect.
And my original point stands - SEE adds nothing to the table not because of individual aspects of his kit - but how it all comes together. That’s where this goes horribly wrong, and if I did not make that clear in my original point, then that’s on me. But that’s the issue here - the synergy does not work. Now explain to me how do I infer synergy from a textual description? The impact of mods, different teams, the ultimate etc etc. And now let’s overlay experience from the previous 3 GL’s and how they gave fared. I’d say that gives me a fair idea of what to expect - or so I thought.
Team based combat is based on the team being greater than the sum of its individual parts - every toon worth a **** does this - SEE does not.
I am sorry for coming across the way I did. your original post did not seem to really have a place in this conversation, as it didn't offer any real points about game play "issues" with some element of possible changes that could help.
I understand where you are coming from, that your original post on top of everything else that others have said is just more to prove the point you do not see him as a GL.
Well moving forward at least I feel very confident in going for IG-11Byoda and kuiil,
House of mouse cares too much about these characters to not see them be a sought after item.
The baby’s kit is great and has me more excited then I was unlocking SEE’s ultimate 😞
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
I was early to do many battles with ultimate in testing against the top of my arena shard. I am on a December 2015 shard, the top of the shard represents that time in game and experience from what I have seen. There are good mods, proper team makeups, etc I had quickly determined that in order to consistently beat Rey, it can be done easily with the right team. Most of the Reys on my shard are running jedi with her, makes Kylo possible to beat but also makes it a little easier for SEE. That said, Vader or Thrawn are really important in beating Rey easily. For me even then it comes down to a situation where Rey COULD turn the tide with her ultimate but typically SEE gets the better of his granddaugher. JML is an easy win MOST of the time, but also requires a similar team to get the most of SEE. I have also found as many others have that a crit damage set actually helps, specifically when fighting both light side GLs. I struggle with, but can beat single tank Kylo's but there aren't many of those. I am lucky enough to have enough good mods to have two arena mod level teams. One to fight Rey and JML and one to fight Kylo. I don't know what I am going to do vs SEE but mirror seems plausable.
All that said, he needs something, not a full rework but something like making decieved spread more easily, removing light side restrictions or increasing base damage or giving more utility to linked even if it just means that his next turn happens quicker than it does now, etc. He needs 1 or 2 of these little tweaks to make a difference.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
I am not blaming players for not recognizing flaws, but I will say that if you invested before having a kit to view, or feeling like a character doesn't fill a purpose, and hinders his own team after his kit was reveled .....all of which are spelled out in his kit, then I think you have to take some personal perspective on that situation.
as i said, just found it odd to come in with broad complaints about his kit in its entirety. when that is the case, just dont pursue a toon. they have proven time and time again that kits tend to stay relatively stable, short of some issue like an exploit of bug.
I not arguing that he should be this way, and that he is living up to the GL tag. I was also looking at poor game play and other factors when he came out in hopes that something was missing. This is seeming less and less like the case.
So I should be responsible for buying a toon that should be between 1-4 of the best teams in the game and yet, developers didn’t test. There should be no place for CG apologists and more responsibility to correct issues.
Also on paper seems good until you realize he hits like a wet noodle despite having the highest SD in the game. And the nerf to protection up means he can’t gain his max protection enough to even survive a Reys ultimate here he could before. Terrible testing on SEE and if you don’t think so then that’s basically “sticking up” for CG because you work with them.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
Quite a poor response in all honesty - and if anyone in my firm demonstrated a callous response to a concern raised they would know about it . At no point have I called for a buff, or demand he gets fixed. Merely pointing out the defficiencies.
Now onto the specifics:
1) Timeline for me the time between announcing SEE and the kit being announced. I wager many, including me, made a decision to go one of two ways. One route takes me to a viable all a bit underwhelming toon. The other a fifth wheel - and that’s being generous
2) Compare and contrast the ‘spiel’ selling each GL thus far with what was subsequently unlocked - all were fairly close to the mark by way of giving players an idea of what to expect. And now do this for SEE “....turns Palpetine into a devastating attacker”. Those players that have SEE with his ultimate will laugh at that statement. Nothing in what he does is even remotely close to this.
3) I do not regret any of resources I have expended to unlock the GL’s - the recent 2 were all f2p but SEE is not what he is billed to be in any aspect.
And my original point stands - SEE adds nothing to the table not because of individual aspects of his kit - but how it all comes together. That’s where this goes horribly wrong, and if I did not make that clear in my original point, then that’s on me. But that’s the issue here - the synergy does not work. Now explain to me how do I infer synergy from a textual description? The impact of mods, different teams, the ultimate etc etc. And now let’s overlay experience from the previous 3 GL’s and how they gave fared. I’d say that gives me a fair idea of what to expect - or so I thought.
Team based combat is based on the team being greater than the sum of its individual parts - every toon worth a **** does this - SEE does not.
I am sorry for coming across the way I did. your original post did not seem to really have a place in this conversation, as it didn't offer any real points about game play "issues" with some element of possible changes that could help.
I understand where you are coming from, that your original post on top of everything else that others have said is just more to prove the point you do not see him as a GL.
Fair enough and I appreciate the revert. We all want the same thing - a toon that does something worthwhile, a step change if you will, as that’s what GL’s are supposed to be. Now I get that different people will interpret that in different ways, but as a pure baseline - a character that requires 15 relic’d toons and 6 zetas should add some value. That I am sure we can all agree on, if not exactly what that value is as it will vary from person to person.
The point of contention is that SEE offers nothing in the way of incremental value. And this is the product of all the points other posters here have outlined, either by video’s or detailed replies. I am not going to go into what I feel should be done as that’s a slippery slope, but if the end product is a detriment and not an enhancement - something is wrong.
This is how every double tank kylo fight goes. Pay special attention to the amazing hit for 8812 on FOST after SEE’s ultimate. That is just too little damage under any circumstances for a GL to dish out. https://youtu.be/uBMndOsoWdo
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
I was early to do many battles with ultimate in testing against the top of my arena shard. I am on a December 2015 shard, the top of the shard represents that time in game and experience from what I have seen. There are good mods, proper team makeups, etc I had quickly determined that in order to consistently beat Rey, it can be done easily with the right team. Most of the Reys on my shard are running jedi with her, makes Kylo possible to beat but also makes it a little easier for SEE. That said, Vader or Thrawn are really important in beating Rey easily. For me even then it comes down to a situation where Rey COULD turn the tide with her ultimate but typically SEE gets the better of his granddaugher. JML is an easy win MOST of the time, but also requires a similar team to get the most of SEE. I have also found as many others have that a crit damage set actually helps, specifically when fighting both light side GLs. I struggle with, but can beat single tank Kylo's but there aren't many of those. I am lucky enough to have enough good mods to have two arena mod level teams. One to fight Rey and JML and one to fight Kylo. I don't know what I am going to do vs SEE but mirror seems plausable.
All that said, he needs something, not a full rework but something like making decieved spread more easily, removing light side restrictions or increasing base damage or giving more utility to linked even if it just means that his next turn happens quicker than it does now, etc. He needs 1 or 2 of these little tweaks to make a difference.
I agree. Maybe smaller things could fix the problem. I just wanted to make sure I placed all the seemingly blatant flaws up front.
One thing is I was already beating Rey with Vader, without having to add a GL to the team. So to have to use a GL to have a slightly worse Rey counter is disappointing.
I paid attention to the 108k received after that. which is more than any of individual damages SEE performed with his ult. Kylo's ult had more than double the damage on average than SEEs ult.
Just wow. Can one of CG employees straight swap my SEE toons for SLKR toons.
I paid attention to the 108k received after that. which is more than any of individual damages SEE performed with his ult. Kylo's ult had more than double the damage on average than SEEs ult.
Just wow. Can one of CG employees straight swap my SEE toons for SLKR toons.
Fair request. They’re all “on par” so this should be fine.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
Easy answer here Kyno. Because regardless of how bad his kit is, no matter how bad it looks, you never really know until you try it. AND, this is the big part, CG has set a precedent with GL's and many other hard to get characters that if they are either being beaten by lesser teams easily or they aren't performing as well as they should be that they would make near immediate changes to address that lack of strength and protect the investment of the players that got that character. Therefore, there is an expectation that CG will do the right thing by SEE and there is zero, zilch, nada that anyone can say that will change that without a massive backlash and causing players to not be so willing to invest in the future.
I understand where you are coming from, but if you read his kit and see all the points that were brought up in that post. basically all of which except his actual power (not really brought up there, but still), are visible.
someone chooses to invest anyway, which yes i actually understand that too, but then comes here and complains about all the points they saw before investing in him. that seems like an odd path to follow.
"near immediate" seems like a bit of a stretch, for anything other than changes that were due to a bug or exploit.
I get that there is an expectation, and there has been a statement that they are keeping an eye on things, and as another player pointed out, SLKR took some time to get any changes, even after a similar eye was put on him.
I would also add, that as part of that precedent, there was a very limited change to his actual kit. the poster i was replying to sounds like they want a whole new kit, and that doesn't seem likely, or even part of any reasonable expectation set by events of the past.
I am not trying to down play the situation, I just really find that response to this situation odd.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
I am not blaming players for not recognizing flaws, but I will say that if you invested before having a kit to view, or feeling like a character doesn't fill a purpose, and hinders his own team after his kit was reveled .....all of which are spelled out in his kit, then I think you have to take some personal perspective on that situation.
as i said, just found it odd to come in with broad complaints about his kit in its entirety. when that is the case, just dont pursue a toon. they have proven time and time again that kits tend to stay relatively stable, short of some issue like an exploit of bug.
I not arguing that he should be this way, and that he is living up to the GL tag. I was also looking at poor game play and other factors when he came out in hopes that something was missing. This is seeming less and less like the case.
So I should be responsible for buying a toon that should be between 1-4 of the best teams in the game and yet, developers didn’t test. There should be no place for CG apologists and more responsibility to correct issues.
Also on paper seems good until you realize he hits like a wet noodle despite having the highest SD in the game. And the nerf to protection up means he can’t gain his max protection enough to even survive a Reys ultimate here he could before. Terrible testing on SEE and if you don’t think so then that’s basically “sticking up” for CG because you work with them.
he was tested, Doja has already stated this.
I have seen him gain enough protection and through his kit survive a few whirlwinds and her ultimate, do you have a video of this happening? i'm not saying its not possible, but it seems others have figured out ways to make it ok.
I dont work for them. I am not sticking up for them. I have said multiple times that I agree this doesnt feel like this is where he should be.
The issue, Kyno, is extremely simple. SEE brings nothing to the table. There is nothing he can do that cannot be done better by another GL, or worse, a non GL based team. He fills no gap. Addresses no weakness. And is the only GL that impedes his fellow team mates as opposed to boost.
And no amount of data or videos can display that differently to what is already out there. And I say this as someone that has all 4 with all ultimates.
If you or anyone else feels this way, then i'm not sure why anyone who feels this way would have even tried to unlock him.
If thats how you see him, which 90% of this would have been evident from reading his kit, I'm not sure what the point is of feeling this way and pursuing him.
1) most people would have started farming for SEE before they got the kit, and 2) the largest issue I’ve seen isn’t his kit but his lackluster Damage.
This is exactly where I'm at. Started farming for SEE day he was announced. Already had 2/15 needed heros for him before announcement, so went with him over JML. With some modest spending I had 13/15 before the kit was even revealed. And when it was revealed, it was so confusing I couldnt even tell if it was "good" or "bad", so I just assumed it was good... Because he's supposed to be a 'galactic legend' after all.
When he was released and the news started coming out about how bad he is, I was at 14/15 (kust lacking Piett to relic). So I figured I minds well finish him out anyway, and hope the news about SEE being bad was fake news or he'd get a buff. So that's where I'm at now.
I'm in total agreement with your second point, about damage. More damage is what SEE needs the most right now. Pre-ultimate damage. It should honestly be completely doubled, if not tripled.
I would be pretty upset if SEE was my only GL. He can get some work done, but his design seems to be under the impression you have other GL's in your kit to work with. As he is right now I would get him last. Hopefully he improves.
One quality of life change would be Unlimited Power activating when he uses ultimate. Link should bypass taunt but I think they said that is too OP.
My teammate kills SEE with Kylo+Traya for about 1-1,5 minute. His opponent doesn't have even enough time to switch to another Gl for defense. Is it normal, i suppose no.
This is how every double tank kylo fight goes. Pay special attention to the amazing hit for 8812 on FOST after SEE’s ultimate. That is just too little damage under any circumstances for a GL to dish out. https://youtu.be/uBMndOsoWdo
When you stripped both tanks of taunt, why did you target SLKR over red trooper or Hux? I feel like you could have won that battle by knocking one of those our since you were able to survive the first SLKR ultimate.
This is how every double tank kylo fight goes. Pay special attention to the amazing hit for 8812 on FOST after SEE’s ultimate. That is just too little damage under any circumstances for a GL to dish out. https://youtu.be/uBMndOsoWdo
When you stripped both tanks of taunt, why did you target SLKR over red trooper or Hux? I feel like you could have won that battle by knocking one of those our since you were able to survive the first SLKR ultimate.
There isn’t enough damage to take one of those out. You have to go hard at kylo.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
... in what situation will SLKR be easier to take out than either of those?
I have found that going after them just makes me lose worse than not. I don’t know if anyone has determined a win condition for see vs double tank kylo.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
Hmm... that’s promising. EP can also be helpful vs JML teams with his 5% Health damage immediately triggering JML’s unique for everyone at once and wasting a good bit of it. Shock’s always useful too.
That being said, Kylo wasting his first stun on SEE and Palp getting all 4 of his possible stuns plays a big part in that win.
Replies
CG is laughing all the way to the bank.
Quite a poor response in all honesty - and if anyone in my firm demonstrated a callous response to a concern raised they would know about it . At no point have I called for a buff, or demand he gets fixed. Merely pointing out the defficiencies.
Now onto the specifics:
1) Timeline for me the time between announcing SEE and the kit being announced. I wager many, including me, made a decision to go one of two ways. One route takes me to a viable all a bit underwhelming toon. The other a fifth wheel - and that’s being generous
2) Compare and contrast the ‘spiel’ selling each GL thus far with what was subsequently unlocked - all were fairly close to the mark by way of giving players an idea of what to expect. And now do this for SEE “....turns Palpetine into a devastating attacker”. Those players that have SEE with his ultimate will laugh at that statement. Nothing in what he does is even remotely close to this.
3) I do not regret any of resources I have expended to unlock the GL’s - the recent 2 were all f2p but SEE is not what he is billed to be in any aspect.
And my original point stands - SEE adds nothing to the table not because of individual aspects of his kit - but how it all comes together. That’s where this goes horribly wrong, and if I did not make that clear in my original point, then that’s on me. But that’s the issue here - the synergy does not work. Now explain to me how do I infer synergy from a textual description? The impact of mods, different teams, the ultimate etc etc. And now let’s overlay experience from the previous 3 GL’s and how they gave fared. I’d say that gives me a fair idea of what to expect - or so I thought.
Team based combat is based on the team being greater than the sum of its individual parts - every toon worth a **** does this - SEE does not.
There are multiple answers to your point.
1) we weren't given the kit until a few days until before the event went live. I personally was already way into the farm by that point. I'm sure others were the same. So maybe that complaint should be focused on CG and their GL release strategy.
2) many of the problems aren't present solely within the kit until you actually play it. That goes to testing. Many of the problems were recognized by the player base nearly immediately after using the toon. I'm not going to question whether or not CG tested him, I will question how comprehensive the testing is. Again, vs JML in particular, many of these issues aren't present. So if the testing wasn't comprehensive than many of these issues would be easy to miss.
3) this is a GL. I expected to unlock a toon that fit the bill. Issues, like his pretty mediocre damage (outside of the post ult special), slow ult charge, and lack of usefulness during the transformation aren't recognizable just through reading the kit.
To the damage, I wouldn't have known that until his statistics were released on swgoh.gg.
On the slow ult charge, forgive me for not noticing all the intricacies that applied there. We only had Rey and SLKR to look to as examples. I believe that's not something the average gamer would recognize without using him.
On the transformation turn usefulness. Again, something that wouldn't present itself until you've seen it in action.
I wasn't beta testing so I couldn't see these problems until after I had sunk many resources into him. And when the poor reviews came out, I personally was hoping it was poor user play or a lack of zetas etc. Sunk cost fallacy I guess. Then I unlocked and saw first hand how poor he is in comparison to the other GL.
It honestly feels deceptive to blame the player base for "not recognizing the flaws" when we aren't given the kit until way after the farm is underway. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, nor CGs. I think we just want a toon worth the investment.
Piett
Anakin
Vader
Palpatine
The bad:
Krennic
RG
The ugly:
SEE
The less said the better:
Relic 7 Sidious 🤦♂️
I am not blaming players for not recognizing flaws, but I will say that if you invested before having a kit to view, or feeling like a character doesn't fill a purpose, and hinders his own team after his kit was reveled .....all of which are spelled out in his kit, then I think you have to take some personal perspective on that situation.
as i said, just found it odd to come in with broad complaints about his kit in its entirety. when that is the case, just dont pursue a toon. they have proven time and time again that kits tend to stay relatively stable, short of some issue like an exploit of bug.
I not arguing that he should be this way, and that he is living up to the GL tag. I was also looking at poor game play and other factors when he came out in hopes that something was missing. This is seeming less and less like the case.
Can you show me a quote that even implies they are ok with this? - I repeat, It was mentioned that for kit review is required a solid reson, 1vs5 seems you find normal, as there are GLs, i think when people spend the SAME time, money etc. for either SEE or Kylo, they didn't expect that 1 Gl will solo 5 top sith with Gl included, they don't think that the whole kit is just useless because it doesn't work against Kylo, when he soloes siths. Without thorough kit review seems SEE won't be good. You think and maybe someone else think that 1vs5 is good, i can say just for people from my guild when they saw this solo they didn't think that it's normal, because it's 1 or 2 Gl for them, they just said that Palp looks like a garbage, he is useless for arena, as it's not very good to use 2-3 teams to get top one for offense and one leave for defense after payout, as we have only 5 free attempts.
I am sorry for coming across the way I did. your original post did not seem to really have a place in this conversation, as it didn't offer any real points about game play "issues" with some element of possible changes that could help.
I understand where you are coming from, that your original post on top of everything else that others have said is just more to prove the point you do not see him as a GL.
House of mouse cares too much about these characters to not see them be a sought after item.
The baby’s kit is great and has me more excited then I was unlocking SEE’s ultimate 😞
I was early to do many battles with ultimate in testing against the top of my arena shard. I am on a December 2015 shard, the top of the shard represents that time in game and experience from what I have seen. There are good mods, proper team makeups, etc I had quickly determined that in order to consistently beat Rey, it can be done easily with the right team. Most of the Reys on my shard are running jedi with her, makes Kylo possible to beat but also makes it a little easier for SEE. That said, Vader or Thrawn are really important in beating Rey easily. For me even then it comes down to a situation where Rey COULD turn the tide with her ultimate but typically SEE gets the better of his granddaugher. JML is an easy win MOST of the time, but also requires a similar team to get the most of SEE. I have also found as many others have that a crit damage set actually helps, specifically when fighting both light side GLs. I struggle with, but can beat single tank Kylo's but there aren't many of those. I am lucky enough to have enough good mods to have two arena mod level teams. One to fight Rey and JML and one to fight Kylo. I don't know what I am going to do vs SEE but mirror seems plausable.
All that said, he needs something, not a full rework but something like making decieved spread more easily, removing light side restrictions or increasing base damage or giving more utility to linked even if it just means that his next turn happens quicker than it does now, etc. He needs 1 or 2 of these little tweaks to make a difference.
So I should be responsible for buying a toon that should be between 1-4 of the best teams in the game and yet, developers didn’t test. There should be no place for CG apologists and more responsibility to correct issues.
Also on paper seems good until you realize he hits like a wet noodle despite having the highest SD in the game. And the nerf to protection up means he can’t gain his max protection enough to even survive a Reys ultimate here he could before. Terrible testing on SEE and if you don’t think so then that’s basically “sticking up” for CG because you work with them.
Fair enough and I appreciate the revert. We all want the same thing - a toon that does something worthwhile, a step change if you will, as that’s what GL’s are supposed to be. Now I get that different people will interpret that in different ways, but as a pure baseline - a character that requires 15 relic’d toons and 6 zetas should add some value. That I am sure we can all agree on, if not exactly what that value is as it will vary from person to person.
The point of contention is that SEE offers nothing in the way of incremental value. And this is the product of all the points other posters here have outlined, either by video’s or detailed replies. I am not going to go into what I feel should be done as that’s a slippery slope, but if the end product is a detriment and not an enhancement - something is wrong.
I agree. Maybe smaller things could fix the problem. I just wanted to make sure I placed all the seemingly blatant flaws up front.
One thing is I was already beating Rey with Vader, without having to add a GL to the team. So to have to use a GL to have a slightly worse Rey counter is disappointing.
Just wow. Can one of CG employees straight swap my SEE toons for SLKR toons.
Fair request. They’re all “on par” so this should be fine.
he was tested, Doja has already stated this.
I have seen him gain enough protection and through his kit survive a few whirlwinds and her ultimate, do you have a video of this happening? i'm not saying its not possible, but it seems others have figured out ways to make it ok.
I dont work for them. I am not sticking up for them. I have said multiple times that I agree this doesnt feel like this is where he should be.
This is exactly where I'm at. Started farming for SEE day he was announced. Already had 2/15 needed heros for him before announcement, so went with him over JML. With some modest spending I had 13/15 before the kit was even revealed. And when it was revealed, it was so confusing I couldnt even tell if it was "good" or "bad", so I just assumed it was good... Because he's supposed to be a 'galactic legend' after all.
When he was released and the news started coming out about how bad he is, I was at 14/15 (kust lacking Piett to relic). So I figured I minds well finish him out anyway, and hope the news about SEE being bad was fake news or he'd get a buff. So that's where I'm at now.
I'm in total agreement with your second point, about damage. More damage is what SEE needs the most right now. Pre-ultimate damage. It should honestly be completely doubled, if not tripled.
One quality of life change would be Unlimited Power activating when he uses ultimate. Link should bypass taunt but I think they said that is too OP.
When you stripped both tanks of taunt, why did you target SLKR over red trooper or Hux? I feel like you could have won that battle by knocking one of those our since you were able to survive the first SLKR ultimate.
There isn’t enough damage to take one of those out. You have to go hard at kylo.
I have found that going after them just makes me lose worse than not. I don’t know if anyone has determined a win condition for see vs double tank kylo.
That being said, Kylo wasting his first stun on SEE and Palp getting all 4 of his possible stuns plays a big part in that win.