Another thought is way more involved (from a programming standpoint)... this particular raid is heavily focused on coordinated damage... start of p1 many teams can contribute 5% or more... late in p1, a team that could have done 50% of the phase might not take a turn, one attack from a full squad of relic 7s or zero output altogether is also entirely possible... the point is... our guild has great contributors from literally across the globe... 5 pm may be inconvenient for me, but that makes it 3AM when synchronized to Australia... nothing in the game has ever been so heavily dependent on next tier rewards requiring synchronous actions... The mechanic of scaling damage from the raid pushes coordination, but unintentionally punishes diversity...
The solution is to provide a “hold until approved” option for guild officers... every player may attack, but rather than posting damage at the conclusion, damage is queued!! Players could reset their own ‘damage held’ and try again, once a guild officer approves/posts damage by “player A”, THEN “player A” could queue a new attack! In the meantime players can keep playing !!! Right now we are (suggestively) making a run, holding in airplane mode, jumping into discord to coordinate, players at this point can do literally anything other than swgoh..!!! but even can’t fix that the time zone isn’t viable for too many players in our guild.... if we continue to progress, the only outcome is that those outside of the time zone are just left behind, and once again their best option is to leave the guild and move on... after years playing together!!!
The ideal state for this would provide as much flexibility as possible...
Allow officers to select and de-select players’ damage, (add the result... preferably in phase completion %) then “accept and post”
Allow officers to post individual(s) and “continue to hold the remaining queue”
Allow officers to discard all (with a warning, ie, end of phase)
Allow officers to “accept and post ALL- automatically” (each player gets their one queued damage at end of queue timer, ie 12 hr queue, every player automatically has their 1 queued damage posted)
Damage to queue min hold 15 minutes (a guild has p1 locked down, but needs time for p2 coordination)
Damage to queue max hold 24 hours (4 phases, 2 day raid limit, however this is the golden ticket for when progression makes the raid less difficult) for example if applied to HSTR, I can run a SLKR start to finish in about 20 minutes, other players would get the opportunity to do the same or anything else in any phase of the raid for the next 23 hrs instead of jumping on to play only to find 30 minutes after the raid began its well into the reward countdown timer...., my full clear could be held, and others in the guild could have their queued damage posted to the raid so they get to enjoy the raid content as well...
The point is not to abandon the need for coordination, the point is to support it !
They will never introduce an element that will allow someone else to control another players "game play". Players will not be able to block another player from scoring in the raid in this way, it just wont happen.
The developers can’t even put the correct Sith Trooper in the GC reward box. Any complex changes will take years. This is why we do not have a new raid...and have this “thing”. Any changes will have to be very simple to implement.
I’m not sure a “confirm run” button would be enough.
Better would be a “confirm run” button, in which case your run is put in the guild queue, and when a Guild Officer sees enough runs in the queue to topple a phase, Officer selects and confirms selected runs.
That would eliminate issues of game resets, time zones, and accidental postings.
However: thats an incredible amount of coding.
Instead of doing any kind of confirm button, players should be able to post damage like they do in all other raids - when they are available to make a run at the raid. Then, instead of boosting the raid difficutly guild wide at every 20% health, instead boost the raid difficutly for a individual player for each 20% damage they individually do during a phase.
How does -individual boost- work? Which % will it take for the boost? i.e. I did %22 first run, the raid is now at %78, how would that not effect anyone else but me?
You change the ability? That way it doesn't affect everyone else?
Not sure I understand your question. We know they can do in-battle counters, so not sure why that would be harder to do (or harder to grasp) in the raid than it is in the GC's.
Because once you finish a match, it's the raid itself that's under the thresholds
Yes, and the ability is based on the current HP of the boss, which is why it affects everyone. The suggestion is to change the ability so it only counts the damage you have done during your run. So if you start at 65% you have normal boss, and once you get below 45% the boss gets first set of bonuses.
That would make things much easier, without other changes. as a player can now just throw in multiple teams with no "penalty". There is a misconception that this element is only here to prevent solos.
I thought the suggestion was to make it so that each time you make a run in a phase you get 1 more stack like the current health threshold stack (offense and speed), and they would still probably have some health based threshold also.
That's not a bad idea, tracking % damage done by player is better but stacking each run would work similar enough and encourage high overall participation since a few people can't do the phases and runs after the first is mostly a waste.
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice...
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice...
But they have made changes in the past when community disliked it in the past...
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice...
But they have made changes in the past when community disliked it in the past...
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice...
But they have made changes in the past when community disliked it in the past...
Really, like what and how long did it take?
Galactic Challenges -- they got rid of the r5 requirements immediately after the exhibition phase ended
Yup, and then stuck the r5 requirement for this raid. I have to give it to them...CG is really friendly to the environment as most new content is recycled.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Lol here we go again. The difficulty isn’t the issue as has been with past raids or even the R5 paywall to even try and do the raid.
The problem is that guilds are breaking up based on time zones and the amount of coordination needed internationally or across time zones. If that’s CG’s intention then they are more messed up than I thought.
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice... bad memory...
There I fixed it for you.
Also, they are not sitting on their hands.
Also, TB platoons, phase 1 of the Sith raid, and the changes and revision of that changed rewards on the tank raid, to name a few.
On the rewards front, I cannot speak too any real change, but the general sentiment in the discussions we have had seem to lean towards not wanting to make the gap wider between those who can and who cannot do the raid. So while they may make changes, not sure we will see anything significant change.
Regardless what they decide, the current status as it is now is terrible and nobody likes it. The raid mechanics stink, the rewards are horrible and the idea of having everyone on at the same time on third party apps or additional phones/tablets is just awful. They are just sitting on their hands as usual and I’m very doubtful they will do anything to fix this. What do I base that on? Past practice... bad memory...
There I fixed it for you.
Also, they are not sitting on their hands.
Also, TB platoons, phase 1 of the Sith raid, and the changes and revision of that changed rewards on the tank raid, to name a few.
Also banning toons in TW. Everybody hated it, they junked it.
I have complete confidence that CG is 100% onboard in making the game more playable/player friendly.... This is distinctly different than easier / and showering players with top tier rewards for minimal play.... cPit was intended to challenge guilds, not destroy them !! But there’s always going to be a risk when trying to find new ways to challenge players. It’s hard so players complain, the rewards don’t immediately roll the entire roster to unimaginable power, players complain... By the time the complaints are filtered out, how many legitimate concerns are left, and is there a reasonable solution that serves a high enough population of players, or is it something a select few see as an issue, but players at large are satisfied...
cPit is fine, it’s hard, the rewards are so-so, better than easy and extravagant imo, the problem is cPit is pulling guilds apart because...
a) 1st content that requires a hard timing coordination (even for tb you have 12 hours to fill platoons before you “only” have 24 hours to do missions)
b) 1st content that really pushes the boundary for everyone drops damage from the same start (HSTR didn’t matter if you were early or late to start an attack during a phase)
The point is CG has cPit set as a 48 hour guild event, and the challenge wasn’t intended to force every player from every guild to play every event at exactly the same time, the challenge is intended to push guild closer and reward them for working together... anyway, a bit of programming could allow an option for guilds to post damage to a queue, players could reset and retry, officers post from queue to raid, you can have 12 hr windows for each phase, goodbye airplane mode ! It’s simple, effective, optional, top guilds can skip it and rip through the raid, but diverse guilds with players across many very different time zones can all keep playing together... it doesn’t make cPit easier, it’s actually more fair for rewards, the game is more playable (do your damage then go do your GC, arena climb, gac, whatever)...
I have explained it more throughly in a post above, but the point is not to gut the content but to make the smallest change in format that allows the most gain in playability.
So after watching a video from Cubfan, while he had a newer streamer on named Ando90 towards the end he had an amazing idea for a way to combat the airplane mode for Challenge Tier rancor raid.
This should be a pretty simple QOL update that could be placed in by the devs as well.
Essentially what Ando said was this. After you've completed the current raid attempt you were on and you've died you see the following things.
1. Your total damage done
2. The total % of the damage you have done.
3. A option selection below with the following choices.
a. Post score to the raid. OR b. Abandon the run and restart.
This seems like a fantastic idea, I would think that anyone who is currently doing the challenge tier rancor raid, or even lower end guilds that are having to meet certain quotas for Heroic PIT/AAT/Sith raid.
This has to be a fairly simple QOL update that could be added to the game to help players across all levels and raiding levels.
Fantastic idea you had Ando90.......Let's hope CG thinks so as well!
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Well people shouldn't bring up the "it's killing guilds" thing then because it creates an easy opening to compare it to those other previous guild events.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone to allow them to be at the top of their game (whatever that means). Oh, and there's this... "Since the Challenge Tier is designed to require cooperation, we have opted for a flatter prizing structure to reduce some of the friction in-guild while still acknowledging degrees of participation and success. "
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone
The launch of the sith raid says hi remember me?
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
How is this so hard of a concept for you to grasp.
The difficulty of Crancor is not insurmountable. That’s not why guilds are breaking up, as with previous raids/guild events. The paywall/gear reqs of Crancor is not breaking up guilds, as with previous raids/ guild events.
The issue is the coordination, universal stacking mechanic and massive time sink.
Never before has any event ever in this game required dozens of players be on for hours at the same time, regardless of time zones, to post damage at the exact same time to avoid the universal stacking mechanic that if reached to a certain point, makes the raid unbeatable.
TW/TB is not the same. You don’t need to drop damage at the same time and mess with real life schedules or work to do so. Difficulty and power creep may have caused guild shakes ups but that is NOT the case this time.
Past raids did not require damage to be dropped at the exact same time while waiting on AP mode using third party communication on when to drop damage so as not to ruin an entire raid run. Difficulty and power creep may have shaken up guilds but that is NOT the case this time.
Guilds should not be forced to break up that have been together for a long time simply because CG decided to say “screw your real life obligations and screw your guilds.”
Are you understanding it now? Or are you still sticking to the whole “this has happened before”. Tell you what, if you can name one single event from the past that caused guilds to fracture and split (time zones, mass coordination, AP mode, universal stacking mechanics that make it unbeatable if messed up, and third party communication tools) I’ll buy you a box of crystals.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone
The launch of the sith raid says hi remember me?
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
Those things were valid. Event is too hard for current guild, find new guild. Upper players will do that. Guilds settle in at their expected levels.
This is different, because of the timing mechanism.
My point was just that you shouldn't claim other guild events give equal rewards when it's (a) not fully correct and (b) not relevant to the actual issue here.
Has there been any discussion to allow a roster reset option for guilds?
This option could be selected by guild officers and would be a single reset that reduces payouts by half but would allow many guilds to be viable... as it stands now, my ONLY options as a top contributor are to leave my guild, or to give up on all relic 8 until who knows how long it takes for others to catch up...
The way it plays out now, is to work your way up with your guild, because you absolutely need one to progress... until you are at or near the top... then leave everyone you had played alongside to progress any further... ouch ! It’s a different beast for LS/ds tb, there small incremental increases are valuable... challenge pit is all or nothing !
They have been pretty clear this is meant to be a challenge. I dont see them trying to introduce an element to make it easier, even for less rewards.
Yes, every time a new guild thing is released, players leave guilds or are faced with this choice and guilds even break up. That will always happen when content is introduced and not everyone can complete it. (I am not saying anything about guilds "who can" but are not due to the coordination mechanics)
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone
The launch of the sith raid says hi remember me?
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
Those things were valid. Event is too hard for current guild, find new guild. Upper players will do that. Guilds settle in at their expected levels.
This is different, because of the timing mechanism.
My point was just that you shouldn't claim other guild events give equal rewards when it's (a) not fully correct and (b) not relevant to the actual issue here.
I didn't say 'all guild events give equal rewards'. I said other guild events do give equal rewards and gave an example (territory battles) as well as quoting the dev's message regarding rewards for this guild event.
And for what it's worth, there are plenty of posts here complaining about the non-flattened rewards so I believe it is relevant to the issue here. The stacking mechanic is not the only issue with this raid.
Replies
They will never introduce an element that will allow someone else to control another players "game play". Players will not be able to block another player from scoring in the raid in this way, it just wont happen.
That's not a bad idea, tracking % damage done by player is better but stacking each run would work similar enough and encourage high overall participation since a few people can't do the phases and runs after the first is mostly a waste.
But they have made changes in the past when community disliked it in the past...
Really, like what and how long did it take?
Galactic Challenges -- they got rid of the r5 requirements immediately after the exhibition phase ended
Lol here we go again. The difficulty isn’t the issue as has been with past raids or even the R5 paywall to even try and do the raid.
The problem is that guilds are breaking up based on time zones and the amount of coordination needed internationally or across time zones. If that’s CG’s intention then they are more messed up than I thought.
There I fixed it for you.
Also, they are not sitting on their hands.
Also, TB platoons, phase 1 of the Sith raid, and the changes and revision of that changed rewards on the tank raid, to name a few.
On the rewards front, I cannot speak too any real change, but the general sentiment in the discussions we have had seem to lean towards not wanting to make the gap wider between those who can and who cannot do the raid. So while they may make changes, not sure we will see anything significant change.
Also banning toons in TW. Everybody hated it, they junked it.
I think its good they got rid of that, to prevent lesser guilds to push up
Remember one guild member with zeta Kylo Ren could clear P1 by escaping over and over
and a lot of the top spots will be dependent on getting your SLKR to escape or not to have him go again in other phases
cPit is fine, it’s hard, the rewards are so-so, better than easy and extravagant imo, the problem is cPit is pulling guilds apart because...
a) 1st content that requires a hard timing coordination (even for tb you have 12 hours to fill platoons before you “only” have 24 hours to do missions)
b) 1st content that really pushes the boundary for everyone drops damage from the same start (HSTR didn’t matter if you were early or late to start an attack during a phase)
The point is CG has cPit set as a 48 hour guild event, and the challenge wasn’t intended to force every player from every guild to play every event at exactly the same time, the challenge is intended to push guild closer and reward them for working together... anyway, a bit of programming could allow an option for guilds to post damage to a queue, players could reset and retry, officers post from queue to raid, you can have 12 hr windows for each phase, goodbye airplane mode ! It’s simple, effective, optional, top guilds can skip it and rip through the raid, but diverse guilds with players across many very different time zones can all keep playing together... it doesn’t make cPit easier, it’s actually more fair for rewards, the game is more playable (do your damage then go do your GC, arena climb, gac, whatever)...
I have explained it more throughly in a post above, but the point is not to gut the content but to make the smallest change in format that allows the most gain in playability.
This should be a pretty simple QOL update that could be placed in by the devs as well.
Essentially what Ando said was this. After you've completed the current raid attempt you were on and you've died you see the following things.
1. Your total damage done
2. The total % of the damage you have done.
3. A option selection below with the following choices.
a. Post score to the raid. OR b. Abandon the run and restart.
This seems like a fantastic idea, I would think that anyone who is currently doing the challenge tier rancor raid, or even lower end guilds that are having to meet certain quotas for Heroic PIT/AAT/Sith raid.
This has to be a fairly simple QOL update that could be added to the game to help players across all levels and raiding levels.
Fantastic idea you had Ando90.......Let's hope CG thinks so as well!
Then please stop trying to draw the comparison to all previous guild events. The thing that makes this "difficult" is not in any way similar to that which made previous guild activities difficult. I know you know that - which is why I don't understand why you keep trotting out this particular company line regarding "every time new guild events..."
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Because not every statement says anything like what you are expressing and what I said I was not referencing.
I have replied to comments "I have to leave my guild", "is this intended that guilds break up", "X has left my guild" and the like. Not with the company line, but with the same line that is expressed each time a new guild event is released, by many others.
You and other who choose to reply want to make it sound like it's not the same, when in some of those cases its is exactly the same, or it is not expressed to be solely due to coordination efforts.
So rather than act like every person has expressed that this is due to or the only possible cause is that it's due to those issues, maybe take a step back and think that, just like every other time, there are other reasons why these things happen, and that is what happens every time a new guild event is released.
Well people shouldn't bring up the "it's killing guilds" thing then because it creates an easy opening to compare it to those other previous guild events.
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
I'm sure they do, but there are things that are not within their control and they are never going to be able to stop players from min/maxing each and every thing in the game.
How is the design of guild events not within their control?
If a player is in a guild that cannot complete an event, or cannot complete it at the same level as that player could in a different guild, they cannot make content that will suit those specific needs.
Players/guilds get lax and move things around over time, then a new thing comes out and they realize that their current composition cannot achieve what some or what the leadership desires, and the guild breaks up due to those personal choices/reasons. They cannot make content that will suit those guilds.
Players are always going to want to be at the "top of their game" and new content usually rewards players with new key things, and those 2 ideas cannot be placed together for every player/guild. So while they do consider this and will try to make things fit as good as possible they cannot control everything through content design.
Other guild events (territory battles) give equal rewards to everyone to allow them to be at the top of their game (whatever that means). Oh, and there's this... "Since the Challenge Tier is designed to require cooperation, we have opted for a flatter prizing structure to reduce some of the friction in-guild while still acknowledging degrees of participation and success. "
The launch of the sith raid says hi remember me?
Maybe it's worth considering the factors in previous guild events that caused people to leave and try to avoid those things rather than introducing new factors that are even worse than the ones before...
How is this so hard of a concept for you to grasp.
The difficulty of Crancor is not insurmountable. That’s not why guilds are breaking up, as with previous raids/guild events. The paywall/gear reqs of Crancor is not breaking up guilds, as with previous raids/ guild events.
The issue is the coordination, universal stacking mechanic and massive time sink.
Never before has any event ever in this game required dozens of players be on for hours at the same time, regardless of time zones, to post damage at the exact same time to avoid the universal stacking mechanic that if reached to a certain point, makes the raid unbeatable.
TW/TB is not the same. You don’t need to drop damage at the same time and mess with real life schedules or work to do so. Difficulty and power creep may have caused guild shakes ups but that is NOT the case this time.
Past raids did not require damage to be dropped at the exact same time while waiting on AP mode using third party communication on when to drop damage so as not to ruin an entire raid run. Difficulty and power creep may have shaken up guilds but that is NOT the case this time.
Guilds should not be forced to break up that have been together for a long time simply because CG decided to say “screw your real life obligations and screw your guilds.”
Are you understanding it now? Or are you still sticking to the whole “this has happened before”. Tell you what, if you can name one single event from the past that caused guilds to fracture and split (time zones, mass coordination, AP mode, universal stacking mechanics that make it unbeatable if messed up, and third party communication tools) I’ll buy you a box of crystals.
Those things were valid. Event is too hard for current guild, find new guild. Upper players will do that. Guilds settle in at their expected levels.
This is different, because of the timing mechanism.
My point was just that you shouldn't claim other guild events give equal rewards when it's (a) not fully correct and (b) not relevant to the actual issue here.
I didn't say 'all guild events give equal rewards'. I said other guild events do give equal rewards and gave an example (territory battles) as well as quoting the dev's message regarding rewards for this guild event.
And for what it's worth, there are plenty of posts here complaining about the non-flattened rewards so I believe it is relevant to the issue here. The stacking mechanic is not the only issue with this raid.