Guild hopping is now officially associated with known exploits: will exploiters be punished?

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 6:28PM

Part of @EA_Jesse's patch notes includes the following:

To incentivize players to remain in one guild and mitigate some known exploits associated with Guild Switching, there is now a 48 hour cooldown period where a player will not receive Raid rewards for a Raid completed within 48 hours of leaving the previous Guild.

So, guild hopping and alt farming has been officially described as a "known exploit." We all know that EA has punished exploiters in the past, as is currently suspending players who collected multiple raid rewards (even after those players received confirmation they could collect multiple raid rewards).
Yet we also know that guild hoppers have never been punished, and that they plan to continue to guild hop and complete 6 or more raids per week. And while they claim that they received confirmation from the devs that guild hopping was OK, we know that receiving confirmation is not preventing the current round of suspensions. So my question is whether those who continue to guild hop and alt farm will be punished for taking advantage of this "known exploit."

RAYRAY · August 5, 2016 6:30PM

No, they won't ban those that did it in the past, the would lose the rest of their whales. They probably already lost 70% of the player base.

FebaBott · August 5, 2016 7:22PM

Scruffy_Looking wrote: »

Part of @EA_Jesse's patch notes includes the following:
To incentivize players to remain in one guild and mitigate some known exploits associated with Guild Switching, there is now a 48 hour cooldown period where a player will not receive Raid rewards for a Raid completed within 48 hours of leaving the previous Guild.

So, guild hopping and alt farming has been officially described as a "known exploit." We all know that EA has punished exploiters in the past, as is currently suspending players who collected multiple raid rewards (even after those players received confirmation they could collect multiple raid rewards).
Yet we also know that guild hoppers have never been punished, and that they plan to continue to guild hop and complete 6 or more raids per week. And while they claim that they received confirmation from the devs that guild hopping was OK, we know that receiving confirmation is not preventing the current round of suspensions. So my question is whether those who continue to guild hop and alt farm will be punished for taking advantage of this "known exploit."

There's no claim, there are 2 official posts regarding it in the updates section:

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/42338/guild-hopping-and-you

Since it's obvious you don't take the time to research I'll give you some quotes from it.

It has come to my attention that there may be some unintended behaviour with guild hopping--a potential bug or the likes--that may cause players to get unearned rewards.
Let me state this very clearly: We are researching this. If you are caught abusing this, you will be banned.
We are fine with guild hopping right now, but we are not fine with exploiting the rewards structure for little-to-no work.

Now in case you're unfamilar with the english languange, "We are fine with" means it's ok, acceptable, not an exploit, etc.

Did you get that part or did you need pictures?

meaning-of-vault-boy-thumbs-up-jpg.jpg?w=600

meaning-of-vault-boy-thumbs-up-jpg.jpg?w=600

First off there is no exploit. There is nothing wrong with a player switching guilds, nor is there anything wrong with a main guild having a back-up guild. These things are neither fundamentally wrong, nor are they wrong in the spirit of multiplayer games.
I must stress, there is nothing wrong with guild hopping.

Did you follow that part or should I break it down some more? Not sure how much clearer n-o-t-h-i-n-g w-r-o-n-g can be made but I'll try.

There is nothing wrong with working within the constructs of a system to beat content.

Nobody is doing anything wrong here, and if anyone was cheating or exploiting, we would have taken action. Everything that these guilds are doing, any individual in the game can do.

This is the nature of multiplayer games, folks. Some people are always going to be pushing the boundaries and the intentions. Some will always strive to be ahead, and some will always find ways to win. So long as they do this in a legal way, we have no intent on hindering that. This is the reality of gaming.

Got it now? It wasn't a shady backroom deal. A CG dev posted here on the official forums making these statements.

Now all of a sudden they want to call it an exploit because some people are **** that they couldn't or wouldn't exert that level of effort and cried for it to end.

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 7:35PM

Ironically, it appear reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Yes, devs may have given the OK to guild hopping in the past: I acknowledged that. Just like they gave the OK to collecting multiple guild rewards. Their prior stance doesn't change the fact they are now calling it an exploit. And certain guilds are planning on continuing to use this exploit to raid 6 or more times per week.

If your stance is that guilds and players shouldn't be retroactively punished for doing this, as it wasn't considered an exploit at the time, then that's fine. But it has now been described as an exploit, and those who employ it are, buy definition, exploiters.

By the way, I'm not sure how sound the "everyone can do it, so it's OK" logic is. This would certainly seem to have applied to the Vader exploit, yet those who did go down that path were punished.

MBL_66 · August 5, 2016 7:38PM

Scruffy_Looking wrote: »

Ironically, it appear reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Yes, devs may have given the OK to guild hopping in the past: I acknowledged that. Just like they gave the OK to collecting multiple guild rewards. Their prior stance doesn't change the fact they are now calling it an exploit. And certain guilds are planning on continuing to use this exploit to raid 6 or more times per week.

If your stance is that guilds and players shouldn't be retroactively punished for doing this, as it wasn't considered an exploit at the time, then that's fine. But it has now been described as an exploit, and those who employ it are, buy definition, exploiters.

By the way, I'm not sure how sound the "everyone can do it, so it's OK" logic is. This would certainly seem to have applied to the Vader exploit, yet those who did go down that path were punished.

He never said that guild hopping is an exploit but that there are exploits that happen with guild hopping. That's what the other guy with the pictures was trying to explain to you.

leef · August 5, 2016 7:39PM

"some known exploits" may in fact not be guildhopping at all.

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 7:41PM

You forgot to quote the original post that got closed where Naecabonon got him to give it the go ahead and NRAJ even said himself it was sketchy. It was a shady back room deal which I'm sure NRAJ probably regrets. Guild hopping is fine but not for extra rewards. It's called a game mechanic exploit and the only reason people have got away with it is because NRAJ didn't see it like that at the time.

Toukai · August 5, 2016 7:43PM

It's times like this I wish I smoked when I was younger, because this post gave me cancer anyways.

Never once was it claimed an exploit. Ever. At all. Period. <--- (period)

It was 100% approved in order to get some special people that extra mile to get their han solos. Now that he has been farmed, only now is it being reworked. (coincidence?)

I mean, its not like mods were 100% drop rates for two days before it was nerfed and everyone got to keep their mods or anything *rolls eyes so hard they pop out the back of my skull*

leef · August 5, 2016 7:45PM

GeorgeRules wrote: »

You forgot to quote the original post that got closed where Naecabonon got him to give it the go ahead and NRAJ even said himself it was sketchy. It was a shady back room deal which I'm sure NRAJ probably regrets. Guild hopping is fine but not for extra rewards. It's called a game mechanic exploit and the only reason people have got away with it is because NRAJ didn't see it like that at the time.

So you really think EA/CG based their whole approach on something NRAJ said somewhere on this forum?
"Ow noez, one of our devs said it was okay, so we will consider it to be okay now"
The same EA/CG that stated in a community update(!!) that speedy characters will have a damage reduction, and slow characters will do more damage, is all of a sudden worried about 1 dev quote hiding deep in the forum somewhere?

FebaBott · August 5, 2016 7:48PM

Scruffy_Looking wrote: »

Ironically, it appear reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Yes, devs may have given the OK to guild hopping in the past: I acknowledged that. Just like they gave the OK to collecting multiple guild rewards. Their prior stance doesn't change the fact they are now calling it an exploit. And certain guilds are planning on continuing to use this exploit to raid 6 or more times per week.

If your stance is that guilds and players shouldn't be retroactively punished for doing this, as it wasn't considered an exploit at the time, then that's fine. But it has now been described as an exploit, and those who employ it are, buy definition, exploiters.

By the way, I'm not sure how sound the "everyone can do it, so it's OK" logic is. This would certainly seem to have applied to the Vader exploit, yet those who did go down that path were punished.

My stance at this point is that anything that comes out of CG or EA 's mouth is complete drivel at this point. I simply made my humorous post because it appeared you were claiming that nothing offical was said, only people claiming to have gotten golden eggs from the dev team or something.

My comprehension is fine, I tend to skim, get annoyed and try as I might, I can't focus to actually read while I'm annoyed~

Though you have to admit, Norris Fonzy was funny.

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 7:49PM

You only have to wikipedia "game exploit" to see that this and all the arguements for and against are completely in line with it. It is down to the devs at the end of the day but the fact they are slowly closing the door on it suggests that they acknowledge it is unintended and hence a game mechanic exploit.

Just because it hasn't been said, the actions speak for themself. They have said they want to discourage it twice now and once in the initial launch update. What does that say?

Ozil12 · August 5, 2016 7:53PM

The cooldown apparently is to block guild hop in T7 raids

Whatamidoing · August 5, 2016 7:54PM

This fix eliminates mercs from parachuting into guilds to help finish raids, which is a win-win for both the guild and the mercs.

This fix does not appear to eliminate alt factories. If everyone in a guild has an alt account generating coins in an alt guild, your main account can still hop between the two guilds and do heroic raids. Some guilds can do 3 heroic raids in less than a day. Then hop to the other guild that is now full of coins, wait, then do 3 heroics in a day. Repeat.

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 7:55PM

MBL_66 wrote: »

He never said that guild hopping is an exploit but that there are exploits that happen with guild hopping. That's what the other guy with the pictures was trying to explain to you.

OK, I'm genuinely curious: what are these known exploits associated with guild hopping, and that are addressed by a 48-hour cooldown? I'm sure it should be OK to share them now, since the 48-hour cooldown will have addressed these exploits.
I think for most people the reasonable conclusion was that alt farming and guild hopping itself was the "known exploit" alluded to, but I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

BentWookiee · August 5, 2016 7:56PM

"Known exploits" might be something VERY different than "Guild Hopping" and\or "Mercing"

pac0naut · August 5, 2016 7:58PM

FebaBott wrote: »

Scruffy_Looking wrote: »

My stance at this point is that anything that comes out of CG or EA 's mouth is complete drivel at this point. I simply made my humorous post because it appeared you were claiming that nothing offical was said, only people claiming to have gotten golden eggs from the dev team or something.

My comprehension is fine, I tend to skim, get annoyed and try as I might, I can't focus to actually read while I'm annoyed~

Though you have to admit, Norris Fonzy was funny.

Hey all, let's not forget that Jesse said GW was going to take less time, it got easier and Salera waxed that option. Let's not forget that Kozi said it was okay to collect extra rewards and Jesse nixed that (unless they're two unrelated issues in the last 24 hours). Oh, and of course, there's what was said about the mods vs what we got, speedy characters hitting weaker vs slower hitting harder..........what else am I missing?

I think this is getting to be a right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 7:59PM

Whatamidoing wrote: »

This fix eliminates mercs from parachuting into guilds to help finish raids, which is a win-win for both the guild and the mercs.

I know that it will functionally eliminate most mercs, but I assumed this was just an unavoidable consequence of their 'fix,' and not the intended target of it. And I know that it's still possible to alt farm (though by a slightly different procedure than you suggest, given the 150k coin cap), but the fix makes it slightly more difficult.

Nyteshade81 · August 5, 2016 7:59PM

I really hope this isn't retroactive. I just switched from a T4-5 farming guild to a T7 guild yesterday.

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 8:06PM

BentWookiee wrote: »

"Known exploits" might be something VERY different than "Guild Hopping" and\or "Mercing"

Don't pretend you guys don't know. You're the only ones doing it other than mercs and that other guild.

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 8:21PM

All the others are appropriate to the level of progression required. Why should someone who just started the game with 1 7 star toon be getting the same rewards as someone who has multiple squads and been playing months? The point of the different tiers is so that all levels of progression and guild composition can raid and get rewards for doing so. The stronger you are the better the rewards. Makes sense to me that to win you have to put in the work first or be part of a strong guild.

MBL_66 · August 5, 2016 8:29PM

Scruffy_Looking wrote: »

MBL_66 wrote: »

He never said that guild hopping is an exploit but that there are exploits that happen with guild hopping. That's what the other guy with the pictures was trying to explain to you.

OK, I'm genuinely curious: what are these known exploits associated with guild hopping, and that are addressed by a 48-hour cooldown? I'm sure it should be OK to share them now, since the 48-hour cooldown will have addressed these exploits.
I think for most people the reasonable conclusion was that alt farming and guild hopping itself was the "known exploit" alluded to, but I'd be interested in hearing your opinion.

No there was at least one actual exploit that was discovered with guild hopping but I believe discussing there here is against the tos

leef · August 5, 2016 8:32PM

So now that we have confirmed its not "officially an exploit" can we close this topic?

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 8:52PM

Nah, it's always good to highlight that exploits are exploits, especially when they allow people over twice as much loot as others. Not like being called exploiters upsets these people, they don't care what others think as long as they get away with it. That's all that matters to them.

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 8:55PM

leef wrote: »

So now that we have confirmed its not "officially an exploit" can we close this topic?

Have we confirmed that? All that has been 'confirmed' is that at one point in the past the developers indicated it wasn't an exploit (just like they confirmed that claiming multiple raid rewards in the past couple of days isn't an exploit). Of course, since that time they've made it more and more difficult to guild hop, and have now implied that guild hopping and alt farming is an exploit.

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 9:00PM

I think this could lead to a lengthy debate but all have been echo'd in the wikipedia on video game exploits especially NRAJs post. Just read it. There is no arguement about it. Definitely an exploit, being patched and obviously not adopted as a good thing for the game by the devs.

This is why...

compared to anyone on my shard that is over twice as many raids.

leef · August 5, 2016 9:04PM

I'm not debating whether it is, or is not an exploit. It just isnt "officially an exploit" like the title of this thread suggests it is.

EscapeArtist51 · August 5, 2016 9:04PM

@BentWookiee hey bent man, why can't I make any polls in general discussions? Honestly I really think the devs should've considered reducing rewards by maybe 70 percent, instead of negating them completely. That way mercs still have a reason to continue doing what they liked, and help people at the same time. I was gonna make a poll about that, but I guess I'm in poll jail, not a fun place to be...

As for this being an exploit, both sides have very valid arguments. Mercs can hop and get more gear, for their extra efforts in a manner that was not originally intended to be like this..

However the devs came out and said this is not an exploit, so I mean... it can be considered not an exploit aswell.. This is kind of a pointless debate, it's all opinions

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 9:09PM

Jerry_Seinfeld25 wrote: »

So now I need to create an alt account and save up for when my guild runs out of money? Guess I'll start doing that

It's funny, I have one with 100k sat in it. You can have it if you want.

Scruffy_Looking · August 5, 2016 9:11PM

leef wrote: »

I'm not debating whether it is, or is not an exploit. It just isnt "officially an exploit" like the title of this thread suggests it is.

If someone wants to change the title to say that guild hopping is officially associated with exploits, or whatever language you prefer that associates it with the known exploits that Jesse has acknowledged, that's fine.

Edit: fixed it, so I hope that addresses your concerns and desire to see this thread shut down for whatever reason.

Jerry_Seinfeld25 · August 5, 2016 9:12PM

GeorgeRules wrote: »

Jerry_Seinfeld25 wrote: »

So now I need to create an alt account and save up for when my guild runs out of money? Guess I'll start doing that

It's funny, I have one with 100k sat in it. You can have it if you want.

Oh word trying to make it an alt guild?

GeorgeRules · August 5, 2016 9:31PM

Initially i planned to as a backup guild for our main, then quickly realised it was an exploit so abandoned the idea. Still looking at it now It's tempting to take the whole guild on a 4 day raiding vacation considering it's apparently still acceptable practice.

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Guild hopping is now officially associated with known exploits: will exploiters be punished?

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