I think it's insane that you guys are defending Poe and this meta. Was it balanced before? No. Is it balanced now? No. How are RNG matches enjoyable to you guys? What is fun about starting a match and having 2 of your characters die before taking an action?
Sure, if RNG falls on your side you will be able to win against a strong Poe team, but your matches shouldn't be luck based.
There are a lot of characters who don't show their strength until turns 3+ but in this meta you can't even use them because battles don't last long enough to. I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game.
So to balance that the devs need to either make a drastic change to the entire pacing of Arena or a band-aid approach to the underlying issue and nerf Poe/FOTP/etc.
Also, the dumb AI actually makes it easier for offensive Arena matches. If this was true PvP I can guarantee you that a P2P Poe team would have the highest win rate in the game right now.
So matches shouldnt be lucked based, it should be an easy 100% win due to the dumb AI. I'd love someone's input on how this is a strategic game, and not a basic mobile game.
You ask how are rng matches fun? I actually find it more fun when there's a chance of losing, instead of a 100% easy win, and a 100% free snipe for my opponent. Now with my f2p poe team I actually have a small percent of defending. Even if that chance is extremely small, the fact that it's a possibility now makes me enjoy this more than before. Pre-poe, my level 53 team was owning level 60 teams , and like I said this isn't a strat game, it's just due to the AI being dumb. Why do people play games like hearthstone? There's a level skill to it(the skill level is far higher than this game), but it's also HIGHLY rng based.
And you're right about this "I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game." And even as a Poe user and non-p2w player, if I had a choice of a nerf, it would be Poe, not because of the balance but because they spent thousands of dollars for FOTP. I would find it silly if the devs nerfed something people paid thousands of dollars for in a non-strategic game. Let them enjoy their op characters that they shelled out their thousand+ dollar for.
Post a video of your team beating a team that includes both of them at 7*, without having either on your team. Every time somebody asks for a nerf on one of these two, they get criticized for not having strategy or being a bad player, yet nobody ever offers any specifics on how to counter them. Nobody has actually proven that there is a strategy to beat Poe and 7* FOTP other than using the same characters. I will happily join your side and advocate that they don't need nerfs if someone actually proves that a strategy to beat them exists.
Agreed. I havent seen many of poe, but that FOTP shreds people. No reason he has higher health than maul. And i agree totally that there are people who think they are stategy Gods. Just because AI damage buff on FOTP kills ur team doesnt give others the right to say "oh u just suck at life. U dont know how to play this game."
Like, its a game of RNG, there is no strategy or skill. U just point at who u want to hit and as long as the target doesnt switch, u pray that they dont dodge or counter. And then u pray that u dodge or counter.
All i can say is, yes there are many people who think they are Gods at this game and think the game is a true test of tactical genuis, but thats totally wrong. Just ignore them and listen to the people who actually are trying to help call for changes that need to be made
So the game before Poe was a strategy and skill game . The AI is incredibly stupid, instead of 100% free wins, now there is some rng involved. Deal with it. There are photos on here where non-poe teams beat higher-tier poe teams with dps.
So the game never used to be skillful enough for your liking so suddenly coinflips are fine? Absurd stats are fine? Stale metas with very few viable characters are fine?
What is with this childish attitude some people have where they try and characterise any and all criticism as crying or whining. It's this bizarre attempt at shaming seemingly done so to shield the game from any chance at improvement.
Never skillful for my liking? I never complained, and I have no problem dealing with p2p poe teams as a 100% f2p team. Of course I lose some, but the majority of times I dont. This game is rng based, most games like this are. Let me guess, you made the wrong character choices and you're getting completely owned right?
It's funny how before Poe came out people were whining about how the ai was so easy, and it was extremely rare to lose on offense, and now that it got harder to win on offense the crying has been non-stop. You miss those 100% win rates don't you? I guess you prefer a game where it's practically impossible to get a win on defense.
Preach on @ returnoftheewok!
Well said!
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
So the game before Poe was a strategy and skill game . The AI is incredibly stupid, instead of 100% free wins, now there is some rng involved. Deal with it. There are photos on here where non-poe teams beat higher-tier poe teams with dps.
So the game never used to be skillful enough for your liking so suddenly coinflips are fine? Absurd stats are fine? Stale metas with very few viable characters are fine?
What is with this childish attitude some people have where they try and characterise any and all criticism as crying or whining. It's this bizarre attempt at shaming seemingly done so to shield the game from any chance at improvement.
Never skillful for my liking? I never complained, and I have no problem dealing with p2p poe teams as a 100% f2p team. Of course I lose some, but the majority of times I dont. This game is rng based, most games like this are. Let me guess, you made the wrong character choices and you're getting completely owned right?
It's funny how before Poe came out people were whining about how the ai was so easy, and it was extremely rare to lose on offense, and now that it got harder to win on offense the crying has been non-stop. You miss those 100% win rates don't you? I guess you prefer a game where it's practically impossible to get a win on defense.
Preach on @ returnoftheewok!
Well said!
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
Well.. I must be using my "skills and strategy" to beat the Poe teams, even when he goes "first".
I am 70, My server is mature, (we have Poe teams, Droid teams, Jedi Teams.. Etc.) there is not one flavor that is unbeatable. You just have to figure out what works best, instead of complaining I figure out.
I am sorry Poe gives you difficulties.
Poe taunts, then QGJ, GS, and FOTP combine to kill two of my characters before I move. Phasma gets speed down on my remaining characters, and it's game over for me. There's no strategy that can stop that when my team is dead before I get a turn.
Between myself and Ron on my leaderboard we both switch out who is number one in our time slot every day.
That said, I have yet to see this Poe meta (the full on Poe, FOTP, Leia, Sid, Lumi). Sure, people use Poe (I started just to see if it mattered much), but, to be completely honest (seriously, I am), I haven't noticed much difference. Versus the AI everything is stupid easy to win. Ron and I (and Merkal if he's playing that day) routinely beat teams six levels higher than us to get back to the top rank... Poe or no Poe. One of the guys from another time zone has the closest thing to this Poe meta I've seen on our leaderboard and we still knock him back from his top ten spot every day when our time comes. He was using Poe, QJinn, Sid, Lumi, Dooku (sometimes Luke) today... Was beaten severely in under two minutes by Poe (5* no less!), Sid, Lumi, Kylo, JC even though his Poe went first. His team gets bumped back regularly by some of the Chinese teams who are still running Bariss as leader (no Poe) even!
Seriously, people are arguing about a Poe meta that, frankly, doesn't even exist for 99.999999% of the playerbase.
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.
Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?
Let it go...
Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.
So matches shouldnt be lucked based, it should be an easy 100% win due to the dumb AI. I'd love someone's input on how this is a strategic game, and not a basic mobile game.
You ask how are rng matches fun? I actually find it more fun when there's a chance of losing, instead of a 100% easy win, and a 100% free snipe for my opponent. Now with my f2p poe team I actually have a small percent of defending. Even if that chance is extremely small, the fact that it's a possibility now makes me enjoy this more than before. Pre-poe, my level 53 team was owning level 60 teams , and like I said this isn't a strat game, it's just due to the AI being dumb. Why do people play games like hearthstone? There's a level skill to it(the skill level is far higher than this game), but it's also HIGHLY rng based.
And you're right about this "I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game." And even as a Poe user and non-p2w player, if I had a choice of a nerf, it would be Poe, not because of the balance but because they spent thousands of dollars for FOTP. I would find it silly if the devs nerfed something people paid thousands of dollars for in a non-strategic game. Let them enjoy their op characters that they shelled out their thousand+ dollar for.
You're twisting my words. Saying the game needs to be balanced doesn't mean that I want 100% easy wins. It's already easy. I've placed rank 1 every day since I put gear 8 Poe in my lineup and he's only 5*. Most days I don't even drop below rank 10 on defense. Balance implies that the AI wouldn't be so dumb and the "best" team would be subjective because there would be multiple lineups with similar win rates. I think a balanced game would lead to a much harder time of scaling the Arena ladder and holding rank 1.
Also, I've never really said much about FOTP. Aside from his 3 attack glitch, there are other characters like GS, Resistance Pilot, Rey or even Greedo that can output ridiculous amounts of damage. I don't think the issue is the glass cannons as much as the speed that glass cannons are able to finish a battle. Until that is slowed down the meta will remain Poe + glass cannons + RNG
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.
Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?
Let it go...
Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.
Who cares about the top 10? Pretty much every competitive game ever in existence. Yes mobile games try to separate the gap between the top players and middle of the pack so that you are encouraged to spend money to compete, but nearly every competitive game in existence is balanced based upon what the "top 10" or top tier of players are doing.
Even if it takes F2P players months to reach a certain meta, most players will work towards whatever team is "best" at the time. Also, it doesn't take 3+ months to get a Poe team. I have a F2P account that I started only 3 weeks ago that already has a Poe build which places top 5 in the Arena ladder. Sid + Poe + Lumi + GS + Luke. And that's while being 5 levels behind the highest level player on the leaderboards. The current meta doesn't take money to abuse.
Higher the speed they go first.. Hence Dooku and Sid go first
No, speed figures are added each turn and any toon that makes it to, or above 1000 goes in the same turn (earliest is turn 7), RNG determines who goes first in turn 7 out of the ones over 1000.
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.
Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?
Let it go...
Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.
Who cares about the top 10? Pretty much every competitive game ever in existence. Yes mobile games try to separate the gap between the top players and middle of the pack so that you are encouraged to spend money to compete, but nearly every competitive game in existence is balanced based upon what the "top 10" or top tier of players are doing.
Even if it takes F2P players months to reach a certain meta, most players will work towards whatever team is "best" at the time. Also, it doesn't take 3+ months to get a Poe team. I have a F2P account that I started only 3 weeks ago that already has a Poe build which places top 5 in the Arena ladder. Sid + Poe + Lumi + GS + Luke. And that's while being 5 levels behind the highest level player on the leaderboards. The current meta doesn't take money to abuse.
It's not about disliking the current meta because it's p2w, which it isn't. It's that the RNG deciding which Pie goes first usually decides the match.
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
This is just not true.
If you have Poe and they have Qui-Gon and Poe goes first then Qui-gon will special attack Poe, remove his taunt, and give his team offense up.
I've lost multiple times with Poe against Qui-Gon teams and that happens MORE when my Poe goes first than when his Qui-Gon goes first. I've also won quite a few.
The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).
The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.
The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).
The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.
This is a very good point on Poe. Poe isn't really overpowered, I personally think that has been well shown by Poe in teams without the Glass Canons. The real issue with these Teams is the damage to health ratio that is exposed when your opponent's team all go first. Right now, you generally lose 1-2 characters and are at a severe disadvantage.
Nerfing any character doesn't really solve problems anyway (generally speaking), and nobody likes for characters to lose power (just feels bad). Instead of nerfing Poe, we should really be looking at better options to counter these teams or other options to use different characters.
To me, these options include Buffing other characters like Mace/Asajj (why not Asajj removal be not resistible, or Mace can be a little faster and include speed up on removal of buff), maybe have a slight buff to evasion overall (I have had some success with Dooku leader), or maybe adding new skills into the game (Yoda - leader ability is all Jedi have 30% to reflect a blaster attack back at random target/shooter.) There really should be some skill in the game that can send your opponents attack back at them to help counter this 1 shot meta. Of course, then there would be an incredible amount of complaints about stunned characters reflecting shots
I also think it is important to point out that Poe is really only a problem in Arena right now. GW simply requires 1 or 2 canon fodder characters to blow his cooldown, and then you crush the squishys. Once you nerf Poe/FoTP, there will just be a different character/team that will be the 90% meta in Arena. No reason to just nerf characters and cycle metas when there are so many other ways to expand enjoyment in the game. So another option is to have more end-game content, where any individual character can shine.
Some have pointed to HoDA where they buffed certain abilities/characters on a weekly or semi weekly basis for special events. This of course, would be great to allowing players to use a field of characters. The main thing HODA lacked for me was any sort of cooperation events. I also played Star Wars Force Collection, which I think also had some events that SWGoH could look at implementing. Having a week long event where you kill AT-ATs for instance and it takes multiple teams, and allies can come help kill the big bad boss, and you gain points for assisting/killing in the event. Global events and use of Allies/Guilds are going to be key end game content points for this game.
Basically, I think there are so many other ways to make this Poe/Damage meta not seem so terrible rather than just nerfing a character.
The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).
The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.
This is a very good point on Poe. Poe isn't really overpowered, I personally think that has been well shown by Poe in teams without the Glass Canons. The real issue with these Teams is the damage to health ratio that is exposed when your opponent's team all go first. Right now, you generally lose 1-2 characters and are at a severe disadvantage.
Nerfing any character doesn't really solve problems anyway (generally speaking), and nobody likes for characters to lose power (just feels bad). Instead of nerfing Poe, we should really be looking at better options to counter these teams or other options to use different characters.
To me, these options include Buffing other characters like Mace/Asajj (why not Asajj removal be not resistible, or Mace can be a little faster and include speed up on removal of buff), maybe have a slight buff to evasion overall (I have had some success with Dooku leader), or maybe adding new skills into the game (Yoda - leader ability is all Jedi have 30% to reflect a blaster attack back at random target/shooter.) There really should be some skill in the game that can send your opponents attack back at them to help counter this 1 shot meta. Of course, then there would be an incredible amount of complaints about stunned characters reflecting shots
I also think it is important to point out that Poe is really only a problem in Arena right now. GW simply requires 1 or 2 canon fodder characters to blow his cooldown, and then you crush the squishys. Once you nerf Poe/FoTP, there will just be a different character/team that will be the 90% meta in Arena. No reason to just nerf characters and cycle metas when there are so many other ways to expand enjoyment in the game. So another option is to have more end-game content, where any individual character can shine.
Some have pointed to HoDA where they buffed certain abilities/characters on a weekly or semi weekly basis for special events. This of course, would be great to allowing players to use a field of characters. The main thing HODA lacked for me was any sort of cooperation events. I also played Star Wars Force Collection, which I think also had some events that SWGoH could look at implementing. Having a week long event where you kill AT-ATs for instance and it takes multiple teams, and allies can come help kill the big bad boss, and you gain points for assisting/killing in the event. Global events and use of Allies/Guilds are going to be key end game content points for this game.
Basically, I think there are so many other ways to make this Poe/Damage meta not seem so terrible rather than just nerfing a character.
That is true, but I doubt CG wants to rebalance the entire game for characters to survive longer. I think a Poe nerf is a much more reasonable request, and it will help to at least solve some of the problems with the meta.
I'm all for losing against the AI at times is fun to make more competitive. I didn't care about the AI ability land % being higher. But with Poe/Pasma team I'm 23.5K and this squad below I just got owned by is at 21K I got only 2 total moves. Just Sid/Poggie moved only one time before my entire team was dead. Take Poe out of this team and insert anyone else / anyone and I would have been much different. Maybe still a loss but atleast a loss that didn't leave me upset at obvious flaw.
I recently played the if you can't beat em join em route and leveled up my own Poe & like all else said its no fun after that with the who goes 1st Poe coin flip. I just use him now my last battle to hold position and am now a part of the problem. Maybe EA will keep adding new OP heroes each update to keep us on the grind but that will only make us not want to ever invest in any older hero as they consistently become obsolete.
Why is Poe considered OP? I'm seriously just asking, I don't get it. Lay it out for me.
He's very fast, attacking first:
1) debuffing a good portion of the enemy with expose (which is devastating when followed by aoe attack)
2) Removing turn meter for the enemy, tipically causing all his team to attack first.
3) Taunts for 2 turns (effectively until you kill him)
These 3 advantages come from the same ability: aoe expose, 2 round taunt, < turn meter.
4)has passive tenacity that makes it extremely hard to counter with dispel, stun or ability block even if you manage to attack first.
By the time you killed him, the rest of his team will have 2 rounds of free attacks on you. His expose debuff and turn removal frequently gets a squishy team member dead in the first round, before having a chance to even attack once.
I personally don't use him (i focused my cantina shipments on daka, more useful for galactic wars and cantina and dark side progression), but I do see him a lot in arena. He works with high damage/ burst teams that will usually **** you up in the first 2 rounds.
The OP characters are Geo. S., QGJ, Leia, Rey, FOTP, IG-86, and Phasma (as leader). Poe's presence just further intensifies the performance of the truly OP units that have high-spectrum speed and OHKO capabilities, but Poe himself is not the problem.
If Poe were truly OP, his presence on ANY team would make it difficult to beat, but this isn't the case. At least partial composition of the aforementioned characters is required to make Poe appear good. If none of them are present, he does very little to make a group difficult to beat.
Additionally, even without Poe present, those same characters as a composition still over-perform.
Thus, you can either be in favor of a Poe nerf, which would still cause these heroes to be abused, or you can demand that the truly problematic characters get their damage potentials balanced (emphasis on Geo. S and FOTP since they boast TOO MUCH damage, HP, speed, tenacity and wide-ranging passives) and Poe would be fine as-is.
Come on guys, every character 7* and purple "should be nerfed."
I don't have Poe in my lineup. I beat him easy most of the time and sometimes he does get to taunt and a few of my characters are screwed...but that's the game.
My Dooku can stun him. If I use Can Bane, he can stun him. My Rey can almost kill him in one shot. My Sid could make him not heal if I wanted to use him. My Lumi can almost one shot kill him. My QGJ can kill him in one shot if I'm lucky to get Rey or Laia to assist.
You have to use strategy and yes this is coming from someone with all 7* purple level 70. That's who I face in Arena and GW. If you put a good team together, one who's synergies go together or strategize using characters who manipulate speed or turn meter, you can have a kickass team.
Genosian is super powerful at high levels and is hard to kill when mixed with other great characters. It's hard to choose who to kill first when they're slaughtering you from the beginning.
First Order Officer is really powerful when mixed with a First Order team. Could be considered "too powerful" with FOTP, First Order Stormtrooper, and Phasma (not to mention Kylo who's harder to get but awesome if you have him). I wouldn't want to face them, but it's fun having more of a challenge.
I've seen people upset about Sid. He can be really annoyingly powerful, but put a team together that doesn't have a healer and you won't worry about not healing.
Dooku has little health comparatively so stun him or hit him hard and he'll be out of your hair quick.
Finn can also taunt or stun and has high health. Put together a resistance team and the resistance pilot and soldier are crazy strong.
Stop saying characters need to be "nerfed" and learn how to strategize with who you have. It really does work.
@Cpt_Krob6 there's a difference between asking for a nerd and asking for a balance for specific guilty parties. 7* or not, those units I named above all parse for vastly superior amounts of damage to what the game likely intends. Of the ones I named, only Geo. Soldier isn't 7*'s in my deck. All others are, so I'm well aware of their capabilities.
And you can't compare them to any other units, even with max gear, level and promotions. Each of the named units is capable of first-round one-shooting a maxed out Old Ben with 5/6 gear 9 and Barriss at the helm (pretty much the epitome of a "tank" in this game), and FOTP, Leia and Rey can even do so with an offense down debuff on them (Leia and FOTP can bug out and bonus attack beyond intended limits - upwards to 7 times I've seen and this is AFTER the supposed fix for Leia; Rey manages it when stars align on her third ability with sufficient crit rolls).
You want some definitions of "glass cannons" in this game? Scope out Cad Bane and IG-88. 88 is capable of some nasty damage if there are loads of debuffs present, sure, but even so he still doesn't rival the named heroes in terms of consistent damage and his survivability is a joke. Cad Bane can do solid damage to Jedi, sure, but non-Jedi? Meh. His multi-attack doesn't bug out, and his survivability? Lol.
So basically, you have these specific units that consistently out-perform others in terms of damage. On top of that, they have some form of a combination of HP, speed, and/or tenacity that simply creates a gap between them and any other consistently high damage-dealer that typically suffers multiple stat defecits as well. Thus, why bother fielding a unit that consistently does less even with equal development? This issue causes stagnation and a lack of diversity.
Glad you mentioned FOO, he CAN be a heavy-hitter, you're right. But odds of him dishing out more than 1 high-damaging attack round are slim since he relies on his team maintaining advantage and his special has a significant cool-down (advantage can easily be countered with DoT's, so a simple Sid AoE suffices to keep this in check). Another "almost" OP character worth mentioning is Finn (Crackshot yum). But his low speed and terrible AI control keep him in check.
Sorry for the rant, but you made me sound like I'm not at end-game meta, that I lack experience with the game's mechanics, or that I don't actually possess the characters I actually bothered to mention (at maxed gears and/or promotions) when in fact I do. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're on my ally list, so you likely can gleam how geared they are.
Come on guys, every character 7* and purple "should be nerfed."
I don't have Poe in my lineup. I beat him easy most of the time and sometimes he does get to taunt and a few of my characters are screwed...but that's the game.
My Dooku can stun him. If I use Can Bane, he can stun him. My Rey can almost kill him in one shot. My Sid could make him not heal if I wanted to use him. My Lumi can almost one shot kill him. My QGJ can kill him in one shot if I'm lucky to get Rey or Laia to assist.
You have to use strategy and yes this is coming from someone with all 7* purple level 70. That's who I face in Arena and GW. If you put a good team together, one who's synergies go together or strategize using characters who manipulate speed or turn meter, you can have a kickass team.
Genosian is super powerful at high levels and is hard to kill when mixed with other great characters. It's hard to choose who to kill first when they're slaughtering you from the beginning.
First Order Officer is really powerful when mixed with a First Order team. Could be considered "too powerful" with FOTP, First Order Stormtrooper, and Phasma (not to mention Kylo who's harder to get but awesome if you have him). I wouldn't want to face them, but it's fun having more of a challenge.
I've seen people upset about Sid. He can be really annoyingly powerful, but put a team together that doesn't have a healer and you won't worry about not healing.
Dooku has little health comparatively so stun him or hit him hard and he'll be out of your hair quick.
Finn can also taunt or stun and has high health. Put together a resistance team and the resistance pilot and soldier are crazy strong.
Stop saying characters need to be "nerfed" and learn how to strategize with who you have. It really does work.
The only counter for Poe that you mentioned that would work is Dooku, and with Poe's tenacity that is a very small chance.
My intention isn't to offend anyone, but seeing over and over again a character needing to be nerfed has gotten old. Everyday someone complains about a character being too strong. So far I've seen Poe, Sid, Dooku, Laia, FOTP, Luminari, Ventress, Rey, Finn, Cad Bane, Bariss, QGJ, Fives, Old Daka, Kylo, Luke, Old Ben, Geonosian, Darth Vader, Ahsoku Tano, Kit, Aayla, HK-47, Savage, Phasma, and Boba Fett.
Clearly there are stronger characters than others, but that's part of the game and part of the fun seeing what team you can put together that's strongest.
Poe is a tank who taunts and exposes. I've seen him expose all my guys before and it sucks, but it doesn't happen all the time. I can kill him with my strong team and win most of the time. I wouldn't want every character to change what they do after I spent a lot of time upgrading certain people based on what those abilities. My Laia no longer strikes 4x. I get it, it's fair to put it back to 3 the way it was intended but it **** that I'd JUST finally gotten her to 7* when they made the change. I wouldn't honestly have used her but now it's who I have.
Don't get me wrong, some leveling out is a good thing. FOTP was ridiculously overpowered and they rounded him out. Dooku no longer is the force to be reckoned with. I have no idea why there are so many forums dedicated to how strong he is, when he gets killed so easily and rarely strikes twice to do decent damage. It's annoying that his stun rarely stuns - most people completely resist even his damage.
I'd be **** if they changed the strength and abilities of my characters and I'm sure you all would be too if they suddenly weakened your strongest players you put so much into (like upgrading ability levels with those extreme rare purple shards). The majority of people wanting a character changed is because they don't have him and want to win easier.
I'd like to see fixes in abilities to make them act like their supposed to (yes, I'm actually happy they fixed Laia), but Poe's expose is meant to do just that, so I don't think it should be changed. I still don't know why Bariss can heal through a buff or why Ventress heals everyone...if she's meant to then it should be written.
Rey is supposed to strike up to 4x as it says in her description. A strong Luminari has killed her in one shot though as her health sucks, so has FOTP with Advantage.
I've never seen Laia or Rey hit 7x in a row. I have both of them and also face them everyday in the Arena. If you see that in GW or the Arena, check the person your facing and report them so EA can look into it and get rid of them.
@Wildcats1203 your strategy is up to you. I'm not going to explain exactly how I kill him, but I gave some suggestions.
I use a similar team: Sid (lead) lumi, Kylo, Dooku, and boba fett.
Boba's tankiness, skill lock and aoe compliment my team by stacking aoe dmg over Kylo and sid's attacks bypassing poe's first turn taunt, then surviving fotp/Leila and/or Rey in the first turn for lumi to heal. After that Poe is doomed and next attacker will finish main threat. Also, Dooku and Kylo by this time have counter killed or near killed one or two people. It's not 100% but certainly keeps me top 10 when I try
My intention isn't to offend anyone, but seeing over and over again a character needing to be nerfed has gotten old. Everyday someone complains about a character being too strong. So far I've seen Poe, Sid, Dooku, Laia, FOTP, Luminari, Ventress, Rey, Finn, Cad Bane, Bariss, QGJ, Fives, Old Daka, Kylo, Luke, Old Ben, Geonosian, Darth Vader, Ahsoku Tano, Kit, Aayla, HK-47, Savage, Phasma, and Boba Fett.
Clearly there are stronger characters than others, but that's part of the game and part of the fun seeing what team you can put together that's strongest.
Poe is a tank who taunts and exposes. I've seen him expose all my guys before and it sucks, but it doesn't happen all the time. I can kill him with my strong team and win most of the time. I wouldn't want every character to change what they do after I spent a lot of time upgrading certain people based on what those abilities. My Laia no longer strikes 4x. I get it, it's fair to put it back to 3 the way it was intended but it **** that I'd JUST finally gotten her to 7* when they made the change. I wouldn't honestly have used her but now it's who I have.
Don't get me wrong, some leveling out is a good thing. FOTP was ridiculously overpowered and they rounded him out. Dooku no longer is the force to be reckoned with. I have no idea why there are so many forums dedicated to how strong he is, when he gets killed so easily and rarely strikes twice to do decent damage. It's annoying that his stun rarely stuns - most people completely resist even his damage.
I'd be **** if they changed the strength and abilities of my characters and I'm sure you all would be too if they suddenly weakened your strongest players you put so much into (like upgrading ability levels with those extreme rare purple shards). The majority of people wanting a character changed is because they don't have him and want to win easier.
I'd like to see fixes in abilities to make them act like their supposed to (yes, I'm actually happy they fixed Laia), but Poe's expose is meant to do just that, so I don't think it should be changed. I still don't know why Bariss can heal through a buff or why Ventress heals everyone...if she's meant to then it should be written.
Rey is supposed to strike up to 4x as it says in her description. A strong Luminari has killed her in one shot though as her health sucks, so has FOTP with Advantage.
I've never seen Laia or Rey hit 7x in a row. I have both of them and also face them everyday in the Arena. If you see that in GW or the Arena, check the person your facing and report them so EA can look into it and get rid of them.
@Wildcats1203 your strategy is up to you. I'm not going to explain exactly how I kill him, but I gave some suggestions.
All those words, and you failed to mention either Poe's turn meter removal or LEIA's 100% chance to proc Against All Odds. If my team had a (bugged) double critical chance every battle, I'd probably think that the wish to nerf Poe was overstated, too. Btw, afaik FOTP can still shoot 3 times, as well.
The main thing about Poe isn't the expose with the taunt. If it were just that, he'd just be powerful, but balanced. It's that he can cause a whole team full of glass cannons to go first, along with both of those effects that has rustled so many Jimmies.
His turn meter removal can't be resisted, yet he's got super high tenacity, and heals on resist, so removing his taunt buff isn't a hard counter. You've still got to work past a significant disadvantage since your entire team goes second once he gets his taunt out.
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
That isn't true at all. The beginning of battle is the best time for turn meter removal because every character on the opposing team has most of their meter filled.
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
I was just gonna say something like this, I just beat a guy with a Poe, first time he went 3rd after both our Sid's, I beat him, then he took his spot back so I rebattled him, first to go was Poe, by the time it was my sid's turn I had lost my lumi and the only character that wasn't in yellow hp was 5's, go figure
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
I was just gonna say something like this, I just beat a guy with a Poe, first time he went 3rd after both our Sid's, I beat him, then he took his spot back so I rebattled him, first to go was Poe, by the time it was my sid's turn I had lost my lumi and the only character that wasn't in yellow hp was 5's, go figure
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
Ok, wow. Poe alone at high levels doesn't spell victory. Go throw Poe with Ewok Scout, Ugnaught, Tallia, and Lobot and let me know how guaranteed a win you have just because your Poe attacked first.
Additionally, there are plenty of other decent characters you can throw in with Poe, but they lack the speed to act first-round even if your Poe went first. Thus, the true problem is these top-tier upper-spectrum speed characters that have damage modifiers on their basic and/or special attacks that are unrivaled. Poe amplifies the sheer unbalanced chaos they cause by permitting them (when present in a team with him) to all act consecutively in the first round.
Basically, Poe is putting a magnifying glass to the true problems in the game.
And I honestly can't believe my eyes when I read above that someone said folks call Cad Bane "OP" and goes on to defend their still-broken Leia (she can still shoot more than 3x, guaranteed crit-chance buff proc) in addition to claiming FOTP was fixed (seriously? Do you even have this game?). If Leia gets fixed, she's still an Alpha attacker.
So, ok, how about this, since some are so opposed to "nerfs"/balancing: let's buff the damage multipliers (and/or stats) on all units excluding the OP ones right now. Let's make it so Cad Bane (for example, a glass cannon character by the game's intent) has 130's speed, his basic attack now deals 1.5x its current multiplier, his multi-attack will become broken to match FOTP's and Leia's, he gets 15k HP, and his unique passives now apply to all enemies, not just Jedi. This would pretty much put Cad Bane on par with FOTP (a supposed "glass cannon") but hey, you all are so in favor of NOT NERFING that even when units perform beyond their supposed role's intent (and completely outclass others of the same category) perhaps we should just buff all the rest so as to appease the anti-nerf mentality?
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
I was just gonna say something like this, I just beat a guy with a Poe, first time he went 3rd after both our Sid's, I beat him, then he took his spot back so I rebattled him, first to go was Poe, by the time it was my sid's turn I had lost my lumi and the only character that wasn't in yellow hp was 5's, go figure
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
Okay, listen.
You need to stop the personal attack right now and the attack on people who play for free (I haven't). Period.
I won't put up with that childish behavior and I'm sure most f2p people won't appreciate you belittling them also.
Now, you have no right to make assumptions about me or what I've done.
So you know, I was not on the Poe wagon. I never used him to get into high rank. I only recently started upgrading him due to comments on this forum to see what he was really like. And, to be perfectly honest, he doesn't seem that special. He is a tank and he does what a tank does well. Tanks in every game since I started playing them in the early '80s (and way before that in pen and paper D&D) have always made many battles 'coin flips' when dealing with RNG (we called it D20 back then).
I'm simply looking past Poe to the core of the problem because I know (and, many others here do also) that the true problem has nothing whatsoever to do with Poe and more to do with the damage modifiers on certain characters that was clearly balanced for the PvE game and not the Arena. Hence, why I suggested an across the board damage reduction in Arena Mode only of 25% in another thread where I suggested some changes/solutions for Arena.
The moment Poe changes INSTANTLY another toon will pop up as 'needing a nerf' (the QGJ/Rey/FotP/GS threads have all already begun!). It will never stop. Prior to Poe people were getting rolled just as fast by snipe teams. It's been a constant complaint on these forums since the game began.
When seeing the bigger picture which includes new characters, character availability, potential team synergy developments, new game modes and their affect on shipments and game economy, etc., you will begin to understand why Poe is seriously no big deal at all. Breaking his viability in every other part of the game simply because a few people can't handle the fact that _everything is a coin toss in this game_ is not a viable development strategy. The game is _not_ all about Arena.
I disagree with the Problem isn't Poe it's these (random character list) arguments. I don't have problems with the one hit or close characters who are glass cannons. They hit hard and they should do it better than others because they don't do anything else. You can put all those (random character list) on same team with anyone else other than Poe & fight is fair. With Poe it's high probability 1 of my characters are dead before I get to use them (i don't use glass cannons) & possible 2 dead all with point markers & in yellow while opponent is full health 5 deep. Match is severely crippled before 1st round is over. That only happens with over matched power wise team or against Poe. Put Poe in with any character commonly used and it's a legit squad ready for top 20. No other Hero has that claim.
Poe removes 20%, or whatever, of opposing teams turn meter on taunt. Trick is, most teams don't have any turn meter anyway at the start of a battle so it doesn't do squat the first round.
This is incorrect. On turn 7 (the first actual turn capable of an ability being used), all toons with 143 or higher speed have 100%+ of their turn meter filled and are randomly selected to go. Turn 8 and slower toons have the appropriate amount of their turn meter filled based on their speed.
A first turn Poe reduces all the opposing team's turn meter by 25% (at level 68). This impacts the opposing turn meters based on the info above.
Replies
So matches shouldnt be lucked based, it should be an easy 100% win due to the dumb AI. I'd love someone's input on how this is a strategic game, and not a basic mobile game.
You ask how are rng matches fun? I actually find it more fun when there's a chance of losing, instead of a 100% easy win, and a 100% free snipe for my opponent. Now with my f2p poe team I actually have a small percent of defending. Even if that chance is extremely small, the fact that it's a possibility now makes me enjoy this more than before. Pre-poe, my level 53 team was owning level 60 teams
And you're right about this "I would say that Poe would be less viable if the overall pacing of a battle was slowed down so that everything wasn't killed before taking action but that's not the current state of the game." And even as a Poe user and non-p2w player, if I had a choice of a nerf, it would be Poe, not because of the balance but because they spent thousands of dollars for FOTP. I would find it silly if the devs nerfed something people paid thousands of dollars for in a non-strategic game. Let them enjoy their op characters that they shelled out their thousand+ dollar for.
Agreed. I havent seen many of poe, but that FOTP shreds people. No reason he has higher health than maul. And i agree totally that there are people who think they are stategy Gods. Just because AI damage buff on FOTP kills ur team doesnt give others the right to say "oh u just suck at life. U dont know how to play this game."
Like, its a game of RNG, there is no strategy or skill. U just point at who u want to hit and as long as the target doesnt switch, u pray that they dont dodge or counter. And then u pray that u dodge or counter.
All i can say is, yes there are many people who think they are Gods at this game and think the game is a true test of tactical genuis, but thats totally wrong. Just ignore them and listen to the people who actually are trying to help call for changes that need to be made
Poe doesn't cause a player to need more skill or strategy. At high levels, if a Poe attacks first you lose. No matter what.
Poe taunts, then QGJ, GS, and FOTP combine to kill two of my characters before I move. Phasma gets speed down on my remaining characters, and it's game over for me. There's no strategy that can stop that when my team is dead before I get a turn.
That said, I have yet to see this Poe meta (the full on Poe, FOTP, Leia, Sid, Lumi). Sure, people use Poe (I started just to see if it mattered much), but, to be completely honest (seriously, I am), I haven't noticed much difference. Versus the AI everything is stupid easy to win. Ron and I (and Merkal if he's playing that day) routinely beat teams six levels higher than us to get back to the top rank... Poe or no Poe. One of the guys from another time zone has the closest thing to this Poe meta I've seen on our leaderboard and we still knock him back from his top ten spot every day when our time comes. He was using Poe, QJinn, Sid, Lumi, Dooku (sometimes Luke) today... Was beaten severely in under two minutes by Poe (5* no less!), Sid, Lumi, Kylo, JC even though his Poe went first. His team gets bumped back regularly by some of the Chinese teams who are still running Bariss as leader (no Poe) even!
Seriously, people are arguing about a Poe meta that, frankly, doesn't even exist for 99.999999% of the playerbase.
Who really cares about the top 10? Those of us there know darn well it's more about strategizing timing and battle lockouts than actual in-battle strategy. If you have a high 'wallet warrior' count on your leaderboard, then it adds the dimension of how much you can spend for 7* Dooku, 7* FOTP, 7* Leia, etc. Some can be f2p'd but, come on, Dooku or FOTP at that level without big investment? Maybe in 3++ months. I've been farming Dooku for a month and barely unlocked his 3* rearend a couple days ago. The meta isn't feasible for f2p. Which is the way it's meant to be for $$$$ for CG/EA. Motivated to pay $$ you will be.
Seriously, 10k+++ people in each leaderboard and people are arguing for a nerf on a team only top 10 'wallet warriors' on older leaderboards are using? REALLY?
Let it go...
Go listen to the Frozen soundtrack a few times. It's inspiring.
You're twisting my words. Saying the game needs to be balanced doesn't mean that I want 100% easy wins. It's already easy. I've placed rank 1 every day since I put gear 8 Poe in my lineup and he's only 5*. Most days I don't even drop below rank 10 on defense. Balance implies that the AI wouldn't be so dumb and the "best" team would be subjective because there would be multiple lineups with similar win rates. I think a balanced game would lead to a much harder time of scaling the Arena ladder and holding rank 1.
Also, I've never really said much about FOTP. Aside from his 3 attack glitch, there are other characters like GS, Resistance Pilot, Rey or even Greedo that can output ridiculous amounts of damage. I don't think the issue is the glass cannons as much as the speed that glass cannons are able to finish a battle. Until that is slowed down the meta will remain Poe + glass cannons + RNG
Even if it takes F2P players months to reach a certain meta, most players will work towards whatever team is "best" at the time. Also, it doesn't take 3+ months to get a Poe team. I have a F2P account that I started only 3 weeks ago that already has a Poe build which places top 5 in the Arena ladder. Sid + Poe + Lumi + GS + Luke. And that's while being 5 levels behind the highest level player on the leaderboards. The current meta doesn't take money to abuse.
No, speed figures are added each turn and any toon that makes it to, or above 1000 goes in the same turn (earliest is turn 7), RNG determines who goes first in turn 7 out of the ones over 1000.
It's not about disliking the current meta because it's p2w, which it isn't. It's that the RNG deciding which Pie goes first usually decides the match.
This is just not true.
If you have Poe and they have Qui-Gon and Poe goes first then Qui-gon will special attack Poe, remove his taunt, and give his team offense up.
I've lost multiple times with Poe against Qui-Gon teams and that happens MORE when my Poe goes first than when his Qui-Gon goes first. I've also won quite a few.
The biggest problem with Poe I that the best counter is a Chromium exclusive or Poe himself (Dooku today just doesn't get the job done).
The real problem is that turn 1 is RNG based. I wouldn't bring Poe against a Qui-Gon if I -always- knew that Qui-Gon would follow him. Conversely I'd always bring Poe if I knew he'd always follow Qui-Gon.
This is a very good point on Poe. Poe isn't really overpowered, I personally think that has been well shown by Poe in teams without the Glass Canons. The real issue with these Teams is the damage to health ratio that is exposed when your opponent's team all go first. Right now, you generally lose 1-2 characters and are at a severe disadvantage.
Nerfing any character doesn't really solve problems anyway (generally speaking), and nobody likes for characters to lose power (just feels bad). Instead of nerfing Poe, we should really be looking at better options to counter these teams or other options to use different characters.
To me, these options include Buffing other characters like Mace/Asajj (why not Asajj removal be not resistible, or Mace can be a little faster and include speed up on removal of buff), maybe have a slight buff to evasion overall (I have had some success with Dooku leader), or maybe adding new skills into the game (Yoda - leader ability is all Jedi have 30% to reflect a blaster attack back at random target/shooter.) There really should be some skill in the game that can send your opponents attack back at them to help counter this 1 shot meta. Of course, then there would be an incredible amount of complaints about stunned characters reflecting shots
I also think it is important to point out that Poe is really only a problem in Arena right now. GW simply requires 1 or 2 canon fodder characters to blow his cooldown, and then you crush the squishys. Once you nerf Poe/FoTP, there will just be a different character/team that will be the 90% meta in Arena. No reason to just nerf characters and cycle metas when there are so many other ways to expand enjoyment in the game. So another option is to have more end-game content, where any individual character can shine.
Some have pointed to HoDA where they buffed certain abilities/characters on a weekly or semi weekly basis for special events. This of course, would be great to allowing players to use a field of characters. The main thing HODA lacked for me was any sort of cooperation events. I also played Star Wars Force Collection, which I think also had some events that SWGoH could look at implementing. Having a week long event where you kill AT-ATs for instance and it takes multiple teams, and allies can come help kill the big bad boss, and you gain points for assisting/killing in the event. Global events and use of Allies/Guilds are going to be key end game content points for this game.
Basically, I think there are so many other ways to make this Poe/Damage meta not seem so terrible rather than just nerfing a character.
That is true, but I doubt CG wants to rebalance the entire game for characters to survive longer. I think a Poe nerf is a much more reasonable request, and it will help to at least solve some of the problems with the meta.
I recently played the if you can't beat em join em route and leveled up my own Poe & like all else said its no fun after that with the who goes 1st Poe coin flip. I just use him now my last battle to hold position and am now a part of the problem. Maybe EA will keep adding new OP heroes each update to keep us on the grind but that will only make us not want to ever invest in any older hero as they consistently become obsolete.
http://imgur.com/a/eoaoD
He's very fast, attacking first:
1) debuffing a good portion of the enemy with expose (which is devastating when followed by aoe attack)
2) Removing turn meter for the enemy, tipically causing all his team to attack first.
3) Taunts for 2 turns (effectively until you kill him)
These 3 advantages come from the same ability: aoe expose, 2 round taunt, < turn meter.
4)has passive tenacity that makes it extremely hard to counter with dispel, stun or ability block even if you manage to attack first.
By the time you killed him, the rest of his team will have 2 rounds of free attacks on you. His expose debuff and turn removal frequently gets a squishy team member dead in the first round, before having a chance to even attack once.
I personally don't use him (i focused my cantina shipments on daka, more useful for galactic wars and cantina and dark side progression), but I do see him a lot in arena. He works with high damage/ burst teams that will usually **** you up in the first 2 rounds.
If Poe were truly OP, his presence on ANY team would make it difficult to beat, but this isn't the case. At least partial composition of the aforementioned characters is required to make Poe appear good. If none of them are present, he does very little to make a group difficult to beat.
Additionally, even without Poe present, those same characters as a composition still over-perform.
Thus, you can either be in favor of a Poe nerf, which would still cause these heroes to be abused, or you can demand that the truly problematic characters get their damage potentials balanced (emphasis on Geo. S and FOTP since they boast TOO MUCH damage, HP, speed, tenacity and wide-ranging passives) and Poe would be fine as-is.
I don't have Poe in my lineup. I beat him easy most of the time and sometimes he does get to taunt and a few of my characters are screwed...but that's the game.
My Dooku can stun him. If I use Can Bane, he can stun him. My Rey can almost kill him in one shot. My Sid could make him not heal if I wanted to use him. My Lumi can almost one shot kill him. My QGJ can kill him in one shot if I'm lucky to get Rey or Laia to assist.
You have to use strategy and yes this is coming from someone with all 7* purple level 70. That's who I face in Arena and GW. If you put a good team together, one who's synergies go together or strategize using characters who manipulate speed or turn meter, you can have a kickass team.
Genosian is super powerful at high levels and is hard to kill when mixed with other great characters. It's hard to choose who to kill first when they're slaughtering you from the beginning.
First Order Officer is really powerful when mixed with a First Order team. Could be considered "too powerful" with FOTP, First Order Stormtrooper, and Phasma (not to mention Kylo who's harder to get but awesome if you have him). I wouldn't want to face them, but it's fun having more of a challenge.
I've seen people upset about Sid. He can be really annoyingly powerful, but put a team together that doesn't have a healer and you won't worry about not healing.
Dooku has little health comparatively so stun him or hit him hard and he'll be out of your hair quick.
Finn can also taunt or stun and has high health. Put together a resistance team and the resistance pilot and soldier are crazy strong.
Stop saying characters need to be "nerfed" and learn how to strategize with who you have. It really does work.
And you can't compare them to any other units, even with max gear, level and promotions. Each of the named units is capable of first-round one-shooting a maxed out Old Ben with 5/6 gear 9 and Barriss at the helm (pretty much the epitome of a "tank" in this game), and FOTP, Leia and Rey can even do so with an offense down debuff on them (Leia and FOTP can bug out and bonus attack beyond intended limits - upwards to 7 times I've seen and this is AFTER the supposed fix for Leia; Rey manages it when stars align on her third ability with sufficient crit rolls).
You want some definitions of "glass cannons" in this game? Scope out Cad Bane and IG-88. 88 is capable of some nasty damage if there are loads of debuffs present, sure, but even so he still doesn't rival the named heroes in terms of consistent damage and his survivability is a joke. Cad Bane can do solid damage to Jedi, sure, but non-Jedi? Meh. His multi-attack doesn't bug out, and his survivability? Lol.
So basically, you have these specific units that consistently out-perform others in terms of damage. On top of that, they have some form of a combination of HP, speed, and/or tenacity that simply creates a gap between them and any other consistently high damage-dealer that typically suffers multiple stat defecits as well. Thus, why bother fielding a unit that consistently does less even with equal development? This issue causes stagnation and a lack of diversity.
Glad you mentioned FOO, he CAN be a heavy-hitter, you're right. But odds of him dishing out more than 1 high-damaging attack round are slim since he relies on his team maintaining advantage and his special has a significant cool-down (advantage can easily be countered with DoT's, so a simple Sid AoE suffices to keep this in check). Another "almost" OP character worth mentioning is Finn (Crackshot yum). But his low speed and terrible AI control keep him in check.
Sorry for the rant, but you made me sound like I'm not at end-game meta, that I lack experience with the game's mechanics, or that I don't actually possess the characters I actually bothered to mention (at maxed gears and/or promotions) when in fact I do. In fact, I'm pretty sure you're on my ally list, so you likely can gleam how geared they are.
The only counter for Poe that you mentioned that would work is Dooku, and with Poe's tenacity that is a very small chance.
Clearly there are stronger characters than others, but that's part of the game and part of the fun seeing what team you can put together that's strongest.
Poe is a tank who taunts and exposes. I've seen him expose all my guys before and it sucks, but it doesn't happen all the time. I can kill him with my strong team and win most of the time. I wouldn't want every character to change what they do after I spent a lot of time upgrading certain people based on what those abilities. My Laia no longer strikes 4x. I get it, it's fair to put it back to 3 the way it was intended but it **** that I'd JUST finally gotten her to 7* when they made the change. I wouldn't honestly have used her but now it's who I have.
Don't get me wrong, some leveling out is a good thing. FOTP was ridiculously overpowered and they rounded him out. Dooku no longer is the force to be reckoned with. I have no idea why there are so many forums dedicated to how strong he is, when he gets killed so easily and rarely strikes twice to do decent damage. It's annoying that his stun rarely stuns - most people completely resist even his damage.
I'd be **** if they changed the strength and abilities of my characters and I'm sure you all would be too if they suddenly weakened your strongest players you put so much into (like upgrading ability levels with those extreme rare purple shards). The majority of people wanting a character changed is because they don't have him and want to win easier.
I'd like to see fixes in abilities to make them act like their supposed to (yes, I'm actually happy they fixed Laia), but Poe's expose is meant to do just that, so I don't think it should be changed. I still don't know why Bariss can heal through a buff or why Ventress heals everyone...if she's meant to then it should be written.
Rey is supposed to strike up to 4x as it says in her description. A strong Luminari has killed her in one shot though as her health sucks, so has FOTP with Advantage.
I've never seen Laia or Rey hit 7x in a row. I have both of them and also face them everyday in the Arena. If you see that in GW or the Arena, check the person your facing and report them so EA can look into it and get rid of them.
@Wildcats1203 your strategy is up to you. I'm not going to explain exactly how I kill him, but I gave some suggestions.
I use a similar team: Sid (lead) lumi, Kylo, Dooku, and boba fett.
Boba's tankiness, skill lock and aoe compliment my team by stacking aoe dmg over Kylo and sid's attacks bypassing poe's first turn taunt, then surviving fotp/Leila and/or Rey in the first turn for lumi to heal. After that Poe is doomed and next attacker will finish main threat. Also, Dooku and Kylo by this time have counter killed or near killed one or two people. It's not 100% but certainly keeps me top 10 when I try
All those words, and you failed to mention either Poe's turn meter removal or LEIA's 100% chance to proc Against All Odds. If my team had a (bugged) double critical chance every battle, I'd probably think that the wish to nerf Poe was overstated, too. Btw, afaik FOTP can still shoot 3 times, as well.
The main thing about Poe isn't the expose with the taunt. If it were just that, he'd just be powerful, but balanced. It's that he can cause a whole team full of glass cannons to go first, along with both of those effects that has rustled so many Jimmies.
His turn meter removal can't be resisted, yet he's got super high tenacity, and heals on resist, so removing his taunt buff isn't a hard counter. You've still got to work past a significant disadvantage since your entire team goes second once he gets his taunt out.
I was just gonna say something like this, I just beat a guy with a Poe, first time he went 3rd after both our Sid's, I beat him, then he took his spot back so I rebattled him, first to go was Poe, by the time it was my sid's turn I had lost my lumi and the only character that wasn't in yellow hp was 5's, go figure
Ok, wow. Poe alone at high levels doesn't spell victory. Go throw Poe with Ewok Scout, Ugnaught, Tallia, and Lobot and let me know how guaranteed a win you have just because your Poe attacked first.
Additionally, there are plenty of other decent characters you can throw in with Poe, but they lack the speed to act first-round even if your Poe went first. Thus, the true problem is these top-tier upper-spectrum speed characters that have damage modifiers on their basic and/or special attacks that are unrivaled. Poe amplifies the sheer unbalanced chaos they cause by permitting them (when present in a team with him) to all act consecutively in the first round.
Basically, Poe is putting a magnifying glass to the true problems in the game.
And I honestly can't believe my eyes when I read above that someone said folks call Cad Bane "OP" and goes on to defend their still-broken Leia (she can still shoot more than 3x, guaranteed crit-chance buff proc) in addition to claiming FOTP was fixed (seriously? Do you even have this game?). If Leia gets fixed, she's still an Alpha attacker.
So, ok, how about this, since some are so opposed to "nerfs"/balancing: let's buff the damage multipliers (and/or stats) on all units excluding the OP ones right now. Let's make it so Cad Bane (for example, a glass cannon character by the game's intent) has 130's speed, his basic attack now deals 1.5x its current multiplier, his multi-attack will become broken to match FOTP's and Leia's, he gets 15k HP, and his unique passives now apply to all enemies, not just Jedi. This would pretty much put Cad Bane on par with FOTP (a supposed "glass cannon") but hey, you all are so in favor of NOT NERFING that even when units perform beyond their supposed role's intent (and completely outclass others of the same category) perhaps we should just buff all the rest so as to appease the anti-nerf mentality?
Okay, listen.
You need to stop the personal attack right now and the attack on people who play for free (I haven't). Period.
I won't put up with that childish behavior and I'm sure most f2p people won't appreciate you belittling them also.
Now, you have no right to make assumptions about me or what I've done.
So you know, I was not on the Poe wagon. I never used him to get into high rank. I only recently started upgrading him due to comments on this forum to see what he was really like. And, to be perfectly honest, he doesn't seem that special. He is a tank and he does what a tank does well. Tanks in every game since I started playing them in the early '80s (and way before that in pen and paper D&D) have always made many battles 'coin flips' when dealing with RNG (we called it D20 back then).
I'm simply looking past Poe to the core of the problem because I know (and, many others here do also) that the true problem has nothing whatsoever to do with Poe and more to do with the damage modifiers on certain characters that was clearly balanced for the PvE game and not the Arena. Hence, why I suggested an across the board damage reduction in Arena Mode only of 25% in another thread where I suggested some changes/solutions for Arena.
The moment Poe changes INSTANTLY another toon will pop up as 'needing a nerf' (the QGJ/Rey/FotP/GS threads have all already begun!). It will never stop. Prior to Poe people were getting rolled just as fast by snipe teams. It's been a constant complaint on these forums since the game began.
When seeing the bigger picture which includes new characters, character availability, potential team synergy developments, new game modes and their affect on shipments and game economy, etc., you will begin to understand why Poe is seriously no big deal at all. Breaking his viability in every other part of the game simply because a few people can't handle the fact that _everything is a coin toss in this game_ is not a viable development strategy. The game is _not_ all about Arena.
Have a good day.
Yay is my turn!
This is incorrect. On turn 7 (the first actual turn capable of an ability being used), all toons with 143 or higher speed have 100%+ of their turn meter filled and are randomly selected to go. Turn 8 and slower toons have the appropriate amount of their turn meter filled based on their speed.
A first turn Poe reduces all the opposing team's turn meter by 25% (at level 68). This impacts the opposing turn meters based on the info above.