Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Bail Organa survived from alderaan being blown up. Kept his apprentice in the forefront and played the pacifist so that the empire could emerge and the rebels destroyed, making sure the offspring of Anakin wouldn't interfere. He also took Leia in to start her path to the dark side, sensing Kylo in her future, being a more powerful apprentice than Palpatine.
Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Its not ok, at least not for me.
Literally all of that history is retroactive. None of that is needed to understand the emperor and his connection to the story in Return (because it didnt exist). Its the same thing with snoke. We don’t need all that history. If he interests you, read about it in a book because like the emperor, its not relevant to the story at hand.
Is Empire a bad movie because it doesn’t show us Boba Fett’s childhood, his struggles rising to become a notorious bounty hunter, or his professional relationship with (pauses to check wookiepedia) Aurra Sing? No, because all we need to know about him in Empire is that he’s a bad dude who knows Han and has beef with him.
We learn everything we need to know about Snoke. He is extremely powerful, he leads the First Order, he manipulates Ben Solo and turns him to the dark side, and he ends up manipulating Rey to lure her to his ship. That’s all we need to know because that is all his relevancy to the story.
Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Its not ok, at least not for me.
Literally all of that history is retroactive. None of that is needed to understand the emperor and his connection to the story in Return (because it didnt exist). Its the same thing with snoke. We don’t need all that history. If he interests you, read about it in a book because like the emperor, its not relevant to the story at hand.
Is Empire a bad movie because it doesn’t show us Boba Fett’s childhood, his struggles rising to become a notorious bounty hunter, or his professional relationship with (pauses to check wookiepedia) Aurra Sing? No, because all we need to know about him in Empire is that he’s a bad dude who knows Han and has beef with him.
We learn everything we need to know about Snoke. He is extremely powerful, he leads the First Order, he manipulates Ben Solo and turns him to the dark side, and he ends up manipulating Rey to lure her to his ship. That’s all we need to know because that is all his relevancy to the story.
The OT was about Anakin's redemption. We knew he was seduced by the Emperor, just as we know Kylo was seduced to the darkside by Snoke. ROTJ and the OT was about a heroe's journey (Luke) and redemption (Vader/Anakin) good triumphs over evil - it was not important to know EP's backstory other than he was an evil galactic emperor. This is different to TFA and TLJ and I'll explain why:
Then came to the PT and Anakin's fall to the DS - we learned of the history of Jedi v. Sith and that Darth Vader was Sith and his Emperor was a Sith Master - Darth Sidious - we got the back story.
Because of the combination of the PT combined with the OT the audience is more invested in what the heroes were fighting for and that the evil in the galaxy was destroyed - yay!
Then Snoke pops his ugly mug outta nowhere - at this point, seeing and experiencing what we have throughout the whole saga - then a sudden re-appearance of galactic evil, supposedly someone more powerful and even more evil than EP, deserves and explanation - at least to some degree.
Boba Fett was a well liked, yet minor character compared to what Star Wars was about overall. Needless to say, we did get his back story too, didn't we (ATOC). We also got to see a relationship with Boba and Aura Sing in the animated Clone Wars series.
Tell me this - we do not get (in my opinion at least) a needed back story for a influential figure that restored utter turmoil to, as we left it, a peaceful galaxy - but we get a back story spin-off movie on Han Solo regarding everything we already know about the character:
He meets and befriends a wookie who pledges a life debt. He wins a ship, the Millennium Falcon, from fellow scoundrel and friend, Lando Calrissian. Han then flies in some sort of galactic race, known as the Kessel Run and wins by beating it in a record distance run of 12 parsecs
- Do we need to see all of that in a movie? NO.
- Don't you think it would be nice if Snoke got some sort of explanation? Certainly not a whole movie, but some degree of an explanation? I'd answer YES.
Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Its not ok, at least not for me.
Literally all of that history is retroactive. None of that is needed to understand the emperor and his connection to the story in Return (because it didnt exist). Its the same thing with snoke. We don’t need all that history. If he interests you, read about it in a book because like the emperor, its not relevant to the story at hand.
Is Empire a bad movie because it doesn’t show us Boba Fett’s childhood, his struggles rising to become a notorious bounty hunter, or his professional relationship with (pauses to check wookiepedia) Aurra Sing? No, because all we need to know about him in Empire is that he’s a bad dude who knows Han and has beef with him.
We learn everything we need to know about Snoke. He is extremely powerful, he leads the First Order, he manipulates Ben Solo and turns him to the dark side, and he ends up manipulating Rey to lure her to his ship. That’s all we need to know because that is all his relevancy to the story.
The OT was about Anakin's redemption. We knew he was seduced by the Emperor, just as we know Kylo was seduced to the darkside by Snoke. ROTJ and the OT was about a heroe's journey (Luke) and redemption (Vader/Anakin) good triumphs over evil - it was not important to know EP's backstory other than he was an evil galactic emperor. This is different to TFA and TLJ and I'll explain why:
Then came to the PT and Anakin's fall to the DS - we learned of the history of Jedi v. Sith and that Darth Vader was Sith and his Emperor was a Sith Master - Darth Sidious - we got the back story.
Because of the combination of the PT combined with the OT the audience is more invested in what the heroes were fighting for and that the evil in the galaxy was destroyed - yay!
Then Snoke pops his ugly mug outta nowhere - at this point, seeing and experiencing what we have throughout the whole saga - then a sudden re-appearance of galactic evil, supposedly someone more powerful and even more evil than EP, deserves and explanation - at least to some degree.
Boba Fett was a well liked, yet minor character compared to what Star Wars was about overall. Needless to say, we did get his back story too, didn't we (ATOC). We also got to see a relationship with Boba and Aura Sing in the animated Clone Wars series.
Tell me this - we do not get (in my opinion at least) a needed back story for a influential figure that restored utter turmoil to, as we left it, a peaceful galaxy - but we get a back story spin-off movie on Han Solo regarding everything we already know about the character:
He meets and befriends a wookie who pledges a life debt. He wins a ship, the Millennium Falcon, from fellow scoundrel and friend, Lando Calrissian. Han then flies in some sort of galactic race, known as the Kessel Run and wins by beating it in a record distance run of 12 parsecs
- Do we need to see all of that in a movie? NO.
- Don't you think it would be nice if Snoke got some sort of explanation? Certainly not a whole movie, but some degree of an explanation? I'd answer YES.
I think this argument can be boiled down to a fundemental disagreement on the priorities in a star wars story. Neither of us are wrong and neither of us will be able to sway the other, especially when I refuse to compliment the prequels for contributing anything of worth to the franchise.
Snoke’s backstory would work better for a book than valuable time spent during a movie. Especially now, he simply isn’t relevant to the story at hand. He was necessary for Kylo’s character to become what it is, but his purpose was fulfilled.
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Its not ok, at least not for me.
Literally all of that history is retroactive. None of that is needed to understand the emperor and his connection to the story in Return (because it didnt exist). Its the same thing with snoke. We don’t need all that history. If he interests you, read about it in a book because like the emperor, its not relevant to the story at hand.
Is Empire a bad movie because it doesn’t show us Boba Fett’s childhood, his struggles rising to become a notorious bounty hunter, or his professional relationship with (pauses to check wookiepedia) Aurra Sing? No, because all we need to know about him in Empire is that he’s a bad dude who knows Han and has beef with him.
We learn everything we need to know about Snoke. He is extremely powerful, he leads the First Order, he manipulates Ben Solo and turns him to the dark side, and he ends up manipulating Rey to lure her to his ship. That’s all we need to know because that is all his relevancy to the story.
The OT was about Anakin's redemption. We knew he was seduced by the Emperor, just as we know Kylo was seduced to the darkside by Snoke. ROTJ and the OT was about a heroe's journey (Luke) and redemption (Vader/Anakin) good triumphs over evil - it was not important to know EP's backstory other than he was an evil galactic emperor. This is different to TFA and TLJ and I'll explain why:
Then came to the PT and Anakin's fall to the DS - we learned of the history of Jedi v. Sith and that Darth Vader was Sith and his Emperor was a Sith Master - Darth Sidious - we got the back story.
Because of the combination of the PT combined with the OT the audience is more invested in what the heroes were fighting for and that the evil in the galaxy was destroyed - yay!
Then Snoke pops his ugly mug outta nowhere - at this point, seeing and experiencing what we have throughout the whole saga - then a sudden re-appearance of galactic evil, supposedly someone more powerful and even more evil than EP, deserves and explanation - at least to some degree.
Boba Fett was a well liked, yet minor character compared to what Star Wars was about overall. Needless to say, we did get his back story too, didn't we (ATOC). We also got to see a relationship with Boba and Aura Sing in the animated Clone Wars series.
Tell me this - we do not get (in my opinion at least) a needed back story for a influential figure that restored utter turmoil to, as we left it, a peaceful galaxy - but we get a back story spin-off movie on Han Solo regarding everything we already know about the character:
He meets and befriends a wookie who pledges a life debt. He wins a ship, the Millennium Falcon, from fellow scoundrel and friend, Lando Calrissian. Han then flies in some sort of galactic race, known as the Kessel Run and wins by beating it in a record distance run of 12 parsecs
- Do we need to see all of that in a movie? NO.
- Don't you think it would be nice if Snoke got some sort of explanation? Certainly not a whole movie, but some degree of an explanation? I'd answer YES.
I think this argument can be boiled down to a fundemental disagreement on the priorities in a star wars story. Neither of us are wrong and neither of us will be able to sway the other, especially when I refuse to compliment the prequels for contributing anything of worth to the franchise.
Ah but the PT is there. As much as Lucas went from incredibly talented and creative to downright lazy and, quite frankly, insane the PT is there and is a huge part of the star wars story and cannon.
I mostly hated the PT - I think we both agree on that one, but there it is.
I'm not saying Snoke needs a lot of time invested in his back story, but just a few lines would have done it - that he was a festering force of the darkside from the unknown regions that breathed new life into a dying Empire. That the empire coming to him in the unknown regions excelled his power and in turn gave him life where ther was otherwise death - Something, no real details needed just something, lol
The books, comics, video games could take it from there.
Meanwhile we are getting a Han Solo movie, and after that, who knows. Maybe we will get a Jabba movie or even better a Jar Jar movie that explains why he was banished from the Underwater Gungan City - because we all need to know stupid plot points like those, lol
Personally, I'd love the next trilogy to be from the past. I don't mean KTOR, but maybe some story of the split of force users and the creation of Jedi and Sith and their forever ongoing battles - might be cool.
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Personally, I'd love the next trilogy to be from the past. I don't mean KTOR, but maybe some story of the split of force users and the creation of Jedi and Sith and their forever ongoing battles - might be cool.
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.
@Boo i argue that Lucas never changed. When he made the PT, he was the same director he was during the OT. The difference is that he didn’t surround himself with yes-(wo)men for the PT.
If you don’t believe me, look at the original script for Star Wars, the Rough Cut, and the Special Editions. All of it is garbage and suffers from the exact same problems as the PT.
Snoke filled the power vacuum made by Sidious and Vaders death. Kylo killed him and took his spot. No backstory needed. Many force users born every year and it just makes sense for there to be evil force users waiting for their chance to gain power and control.
If Rey was to be born from other force users then they could not be from the Jedi Order so her parentage was not needed.
Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
I’m torn about this snoke issue but it for sure bothers me.
I see the comments on the original trilogy and our knowing all we needed to know about the emperor. However, since then we do have the prequels, clone war cartoon, and legends and have come to appreciate just how powerful and diabolical the emperor was. We didn’t need that detail but now we understand what it took to form the empire and hold it together.
By not giving us anything on snoke I think it doesn’t allow us to appreciate kylos defeat of him properly. It implies any random force user could assume control of the galaxy post empire. He also managed to perform feats similar to or in excess of what we thought was the most powerful dark side force maybe ever and we have no background at all. Luke knew of him - and he was obsessed with finding Luke - could not a line or two of dialogue gone a long long way to silencing these criticisms?
It just seems odd that there was no knowledge or mention of him ever - especially in light of his apparent power and palpatines documented obsessions with controlling or eliminating any potential rivals - like talzin.
@Boo i argue that Lucas never changed. When he made the PT, he was the same director he was during the OT. The difference is that he didn’t surround himself with yes-(wo)men for the PT.
If you don’t believe me, look at the original script for Star Wars, the Rough Cut, and the Special Editions. All of it is garbage and suffers from the exact same problems as the PT.
I would disagree - he was surrounded by "yes people" when making the PT.
He was doing something never been done before when he made ANH and gave everything he had to make it a success (despite many studios such as Paramount and Universal rejecting his movie saying it was crap) - he pushed through and even created his own special effects company to properly capture his vision and produce effects that have never been seen before - and he did it all and it was massive.
Close to suffering a heart attack while making ANH he chose people to direct TESB and ROTJ for him - him stepping back with creative control worked as well.
OT was a massive success.
He then goes on to make the PT - drunk with his own success and 20 years later (not directing anything) he takes on the massive PT project and is literally insane with what he does. He is surrounded by "Yes people" at this point wanting to be a part of something that was great and what we get from the PT is something that was mediocre at best.
Lets look at the special Editions (major changes):
* Who shot first? - Solo was cold and cunning in the original scene, which Lucas began to believe was not his character - it was. Han is a "scoundrel". So making Greedo now shoot first and digitizing an awkward looking head dodge from Han looks really dumb. This scene was absolutely destroyed by the Special Editions - Lucas' new input.
* Wampa - Not seeing the creature added a thrilling suspense and sense of danger and urgency to the scene. Again showing the creature, Lucas once again destroyed yet another scene.
* Jabba's Music Video - Lucas thought it would be cool to have a hit music number in Star Wars so turned this scene into a terrible Much Music video in a poor Star wars CGI style. Much like Lucas wanting an exciting race scene with a funny parody to Nascar or Formula 1 racing - we got the podrace scene in TPM. Thankfully this music video was not as bad or as long as the dreadful and pointless podrace - but he still put it in - ruining yet another portion of the OT.
Like the Jedi - Lucas became arrogant with what he originally created and was unwillingly sabotaging his own creation.
I’m torn about this snoke issue but it for sure bothers me.
I see the comments on the original trilogy and our knowing all we needed to know about the emperor. However, since then we do have the prequels, clone war cartoon, and legends and have come to appreciate just how powerful and diabolical the emperor was. We didn’t need that detail but now we understand what it took to form the empire and hold it together.
By not giving us anything on snoke I think it doesn’t allow us to appreciate kylos defeat of him properly. It implies any random force user could assume control of the galaxy post empire. He also managed to perform feats similar to or in excess of what we thought was the most powerful dark side force maybe ever and we have no background at all. Luke knew of him - and he was obsessed with finding Luke - could not a line or two of dialogue gone a long long way to silencing these criticisms?
It just seems odd that there was no knowledge or mention of him ever - especially in light of his apparent power and palpatines documented obsessions with controlling or eliminating any potential rivals - like talzin.
I actually wonder if Snoke is more powerful than Sidious.
Yes Snoke has shown great use of the force through a holotransmitter and telekinesis as well as a "zap" of lightening, but that is about it. He also performed these abilities on force users - although holding raw power over the force - mostly untrained.
Now we have Sidious - skilled in lightsaber combat. He killed 3 Jedi masters in about 2 seconds.
His own apprentice was able to choke and kill people through holotransmitters, so I am sure EP could do the same.
He also had mastery and control over the darkside and use of force lightening
He was also able to project his senses across a galaxy to see that "Lord Vader is in danger".
Lets not forget here as well EP was facing well trained Jedi - most of which held the rank of Master and even Grand Master Yoda. He was not facing young students that had raw force potential. When he did so with Luke - he was killing him slowly. Luke was dead if not for his father.
Personally, I'd love the next trilogy to be from the past. I don't mean KTOR, but maybe some story of the split of force users and the creation of Jedi and Sith and their forever ongoing battles - might be cool.
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.
A lot of backlash indeed - I think he just ruined his chances of any more star wars movies -
Personally, I'd love the next trilogy to be from the past. I don't mean KTOR, but maybe some story of the split of force users and the creation of Jedi and Sith and their forever ongoing battles - might be cool.
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.
A lot of backlash indeed - I think he just ruined his chances of any more star wars movies -
That guy recanted his petition. He said he was angry because he was on a lot of pain meds. Then he got jealous when his Star Wars petition got more attention than his Gofundme to cover his medical bills. It did manage 12k signatures, but, it won't phase Disney, Star Wars, or Rian Johnson at all.
link: https://cbr.com/last-jedi-protest-petiton-creator-recants/
Personally, I'd love the next trilogy to be from the past. I don't mean KTOR, but maybe some story of the split of force users and the creation of Jedi and Sith and their forever ongoing battles - might be cool.
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.
A lot of backlash indeed - I think he just ruined his chances of any more star wars movies -
That guy recanted his petition. He said he was angry because he was on a lot of pain meds. Then he got jealous when his Star Wars petition got more attention than his Gofundme to cover his medical bills. It did manage 12k signatures, but, it won't phase Disney, Star Wars, or Rian Johnson at all.
link: https://cbr.com/last-jedi-protest-petiton-creator-recants/
Hahaha - that's so funny.
I actually liked the last Jedi - just a few issues, namely Snoke, lol
He's another rehash of the endless "I'm super-powerful and menacing" dark side users that wants to generically rule the galaxy because the dark side is about the accumulation of power without any particular way of exercising it. It's holding power for the sake of being able to say you hold it. He's some dude that did stuff under Palpatine and then took the opportunity to get to wear the bathrobe of power, but first dyeing it yellow because Palpatine had quite worn out black.
He went down like a punk precisely because he was a nobody with no actual legitimacy beyond what he could force choke. Kylo Ren has a purpose, to burn down the old world and create a new one no matter how many billions of dead that results in. Snoke is the big bad villain that Star Wars fans had grown to expect, and got to theorize endlessly about--like Rey's parents--only to find out that none of that actually matters. The real world doesn't conform to narrative structures--nobodies rise to power, entitled brats from prestigious families fall. You have no right to power.
He's another rehash of the endless "I'm super-powerful and menacing" dark side users that wants to generically rule the galaxy because the dark side is about the accumulation of power without any particular way of exercising it. It's holding power for the sake of being able to say you hold it. He's some dude that did stuff under Palpatine and then took the opportunity to get to wear the bathrobe of power, but first dyeing it yellow because Palpatine had quite worn out black.
He went down like a punk precisely because he was a nobody with no actual legitimacy beyond what he could force choke. Kylo Ren has a purpose, to burn down the old world and create a new one no matter how many billions of dead that results in. Snoke is the big bad villain that Star Wars fans had grown to expect, and got to theorize endlessly about--like Rey's parents--only to find out that none of that actually matters. The real world doesn't conform to narrative structures--nobodies rise to power, entitled brats from prestigious families fall. You have no right to power.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.[/quote]
Personally with how the new trilogy is going, and mind you I've yet to see the last jedi, I kinda hope that it just dies. I was born after the release of ROTJ and about a decade before TPM. I can't say that the prequels were entirely awful, they had their share of bad plot, script problems, ect. But that comes more from the fact that they had the name star wars and the name will get you to buy movie tickets and the dvds when they come out. just like any other franchise, it's the name that sells. The first one or two are good, then it doesn't matter. Now we're at the point where 7 wasn't an original, but a reboot like they did with robocop. Change enough to avoid copy write infringement, but basically the same, trying to recapture former glory. But like buying an overpriced game, with lootboxes, we allowed it to go this way.
Replies
Spoilers aside - this photo is nothing more than a troll move from the director!
-Sun Tzu
I guess this might deserve a spoiler thread merge now...
This is my issue:
Long ago a group of force users split - some chosing to practice light became Jedi, those that practiced dark became Sith.
The two factions, Jedi and Sith are opposites in the force and have battled each other for thousands of years.
The Sith continued on in secret after supposed destruction by the Jedi. 2 active Sith Lords existing at the same time Master and Apprentice, the latter killing the former restarting the cycle for ages on.
Eventually we get to the Sith Master, Darth Sidious. Using his cunning and powers manipulates his way into galactic politics, causes a civil war, tanks the losing side and takes over the galaxy. He then reigns over the galaxy as its Emperor.
The OT and PT and even R1 was all about Good v. Evil and Sidious was the devil.
Finally he is destroyed in ROTJ - 6 movies with Sidious as the evil villain.
Now suddenly Snoke pops up out of nowhere. All that battle against evil - the star wars saga as we know it, you may as well flush down the toilet with the appearance of snoke.
Snoke needs a back story. I am not saying he needs his own spin-off movie, I am not saying his background needs to be lengthy, but something that can link him to how he came to be. This could have been achieved from a few lines in a movie. Something - not nothing, which is what we got and people seem to think that is ok?
Its not ok, at least not for me.
Both fell from a great height and into each others arms (being 3 of them between the two).
Literally all of that history is retroactive. None of that is needed to understand the emperor and his connection to the story in Return (because it didnt exist). Its the same thing with snoke. We don’t need all that history. If he interests you, read about it in a book because like the emperor, its not relevant to the story at hand.
Is Empire a bad movie because it doesn’t show us Boba Fett’s childhood, his struggles rising to become a notorious bounty hunter, or his professional relationship with (pauses to check wookiepedia) Aurra Sing? No, because all we need to know about him in Empire is that he’s a bad dude who knows Han and has beef with him.
We learn everything we need to know about Snoke. He is extremely powerful, he leads the First Order, he manipulates Ben Solo and turns him to the dark side, and he ends up manipulating Rey to lure her to his ship. That’s all we need to know because that is all his relevancy to the story.
Oh dear @DatBoi where to argue your points first?
The OT was about Anakin's redemption. We knew he was seduced by the Emperor, just as we know Kylo was seduced to the darkside by Snoke. ROTJ and the OT was about a heroe's journey (Luke) and redemption (Vader/Anakin) good triumphs over evil - it was not important to know EP's backstory other than he was an evil galactic emperor. This is different to TFA and TLJ and I'll explain why:
Then came to the PT and Anakin's fall to the DS - we learned of the history of Jedi v. Sith and that Darth Vader was Sith and his Emperor was a Sith Master - Darth Sidious - we got the back story.
Because of the combination of the PT combined with the OT the audience is more invested in what the heroes were fighting for and that the evil in the galaxy was destroyed - yay!
Then Snoke pops his ugly mug outta nowhere - at this point, seeing and experiencing what we have throughout the whole saga - then a sudden re-appearance of galactic evil, supposedly someone more powerful and even more evil than EP, deserves and explanation - at least to some degree.
Boba Fett was a well liked, yet minor character compared to what Star Wars was about overall. Needless to say, we did get his back story too, didn't we (ATOC). We also got to see a relationship with Boba and Aura Sing in the animated Clone Wars series.
Tell me this - we do not get (in my opinion at least) a needed back story for a influential figure that restored utter turmoil to, as we left it, a peaceful galaxy - but we get a back story spin-off movie on Han Solo regarding everything we already know about the character:
He meets and befriends a wookie who pledges a life debt. He wins a ship, the Millennium Falcon, from fellow scoundrel and friend, Lando Calrissian. Han then flies in some sort of galactic race, known as the Kessel Run and wins by beating it in a record distance run of 12 parsecs
- Do we need to see all of that in a movie? NO.
- Don't you think it would be nice if Snoke got some sort of explanation? Certainly not a whole movie, but some degree of an explanation? I'd answer YES.
I think this argument can be boiled down to a fundemental disagreement on the priorities in a star wars story. Neither of us are wrong and neither of us will be able to sway the other, especially when I refuse to compliment the prequels for contributing anything of worth to the franchise.
Ah but the PT is there. As much as Lucas went from incredibly talented and creative to downright lazy and, quite frankly, insane the PT is there and is a huge part of the star wars story and cannon.
I mostly hated the PT - I think we both agree on that one, but there it is.
I'm not saying Snoke needs a lot of time invested in his back story, but just a few lines would have done it - that he was a festering force of the darkside from the unknown regions that breathed new life into a dying Empire. That the empire coming to him in the unknown regions excelled his power and in turn gave him life where ther was otherwise death - Something, no real details needed just something, lol
The books, comics, video games could take it from there.
Meanwhile we are getting a Han Solo movie, and after that, who knows. Maybe we will get a Jabba movie or even better a Jar Jar movie that explains why he was banished from the Underwater Gungan City - because we all need to know stupid plot points like those, lol
There we would get fresh characters, fresh technology (ships, weapons etc) and a fresh story.
Johnson is getting a lot of backlash for TLJ. I hope it doesn't derail any plans for another trilogy.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.
If you don’t believe me, look at the original script for Star Wars, the Rough Cut, and the Special Editions. All of it is garbage and suffers from the exact same problems as the PT.
If Rey was to be born from other force users then they could not be from the Jedi Order so her parentage was not needed.
I see the comments on the original trilogy and our knowing all we needed to know about the emperor. However, since then we do have the prequels, clone war cartoon, and legends and have come to appreciate just how powerful and diabolical the emperor was. We didn’t need that detail but now we understand what it took to form the empire and hold it together.
By not giving us anything on snoke I think it doesn’t allow us to appreciate kylos defeat of him properly. It implies any random force user could assume control of the galaxy post empire. He also managed to perform feats similar to or in excess of what we thought was the most powerful dark side force maybe ever and we have no background at all. Luke knew of him - and he was obsessed with finding Luke - could not a line or two of dialogue gone a long long way to silencing these criticisms?
It just seems odd that there was no knowledge or mention of him ever - especially in light of his apparent power and palpatines documented obsessions with controlling or eliminating any potential rivals - like talzin.
I would disagree - he was surrounded by "yes people" when making the PT.
He was doing something never been done before when he made ANH and gave everything he had to make it a success (despite many studios such as Paramount and Universal rejecting his movie saying it was crap) - he pushed through and even created his own special effects company to properly capture his vision and produce effects that have never been seen before - and he did it all and it was massive.
Close to suffering a heart attack while making ANH he chose people to direct TESB and ROTJ for him - him stepping back with creative control worked as well.
OT was a massive success.
He then goes on to make the PT - drunk with his own success and 20 years later (not directing anything) he takes on the massive PT project and is literally insane with what he does. He is surrounded by "Yes people" at this point wanting to be a part of something that was great and what we get from the PT is something that was mediocre at best.
Lets look at the special Editions (major changes):
* Who shot first? - Solo was cold and cunning in the original scene, which Lucas began to believe was not his character - it was. Han is a "scoundrel". So making Greedo now shoot first and digitizing an awkward looking head dodge from Han looks really dumb. This scene was absolutely destroyed by the Special Editions - Lucas' new input.
* Wampa - Not seeing the creature added a thrilling suspense and sense of danger and urgency to the scene. Again showing the creature, Lucas once again destroyed yet another scene.
* Jabba's Music Video - Lucas thought it would be cool to have a hit music number in Star Wars so turned this scene into a terrible Much Music video in a poor Star wars CGI style. Much like Lucas wanting an exciting race scene with a funny parody to Nascar or Formula 1 racing - we got the podrace scene in TPM. Thankfully this music video was not as bad or as long as the dreadful and pointless podrace - but he still put it in - ruining yet another portion of the OT.
Like the Jedi - Lucas became arrogant with what he originally created and was unwillingly sabotaging his own creation.
Exactly my point!
Yes Snoke has shown great use of the force through a holotransmitter and telekinesis as well as a "zap" of lightening, but that is about it. He also performed these abilities on force users - although holding raw power over the force - mostly untrained.
Now we have Sidious - skilled in lightsaber combat. He killed 3 Jedi masters in about 2 seconds.
His own apprentice was able to choke and kill people through holotransmitters, so I am sure EP could do the same.
He also had mastery and control over the darkside and use of force lightening
He was also able to project his senses across a galaxy to see that "Lord Vader is in danger".
Lets not forget here as well EP was facing well trained Jedi - most of which held the rank of Master and even Grand Master Yoda. He was not facing young students that had raw force potential. When he did so with Luke - he was killing him slowly. Luke was dead if not for his father.
I still say EP is stronger than Snoke.
That's called a "Scam" not a "Snoke"
A lot of backlash indeed - I think he just ruined his chances of any more star wars movies -
https://globalnews.ca/news/3924696/star-wars-fans-petition-the-last-jedi/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
That guy recanted his petition. He said he was angry because he was on a lot of pain meds. Then he got jealous when his Star Wars petition got more attention than his Gofundme to cover his medical bills. It did manage 12k signatures, but, it won't phase Disney, Star Wars, or Rian Johnson at all.
link: https://cbr.com/last-jedi-protest-petiton-creator-recants/
Hahaha - that's so funny.
I actually liked the last Jedi - just a few issues, namely Snoke, lol
He's another rehash of the endless "I'm super-powerful and menacing" dark side users that wants to generically rule the galaxy because the dark side is about the accumulation of power without any particular way of exercising it. It's holding power for the sake of being able to say you hold it. He's some dude that did stuff under Palpatine and then took the opportunity to get to wear the bathrobe of power, but first dyeing it yellow because Palpatine had quite worn out black.
He went down like a punk precisely because he was a nobody with no actual legitimacy beyond what he could force choke. Kylo Ren has a purpose, to burn down the old world and create a new one no matter how many billions of dead that results in. Snoke is the big bad villain that Star Wars fans had grown to expect, and got to theorize endlessly about--like Rey's parents--only to find out that none of that actually matters. The real world doesn't conform to narrative structures--nobodies rise to power, entitled brats from prestigious families fall. You have no right to power.
I disagree.
I seriously doubt it will have any effect, but, I won't take anything for granted.[/quote]
Personally with how the new trilogy is going, and mind you I've yet to see the last jedi, I kinda hope that it just dies. I was born after the release of ROTJ and about a decade before TPM. I can't say that the prequels were entirely awful, they had their share of bad plot, script problems, ect. But that comes more from the fact that they had the name star wars and the name will get you to buy movie tickets and the dvds when they come out. just like any other franchise, it's the name that sells. The first one or two are good, then it doesn't matter. Now we're at the point where 7 wasn't an original, but a reboot like they did with robocop. Change enough to avoid copy write infringement, but basically the same, trying to recapture former glory. But like buying an overpriced game, with lootboxes, we allowed it to go this way.