I really feel for SEE owners. The GLs never really come out as we expect them. Many players experienced the same thing the first time around with Rey and Kylo. Maybe instead of a buff, SEE will get a new toon to complete the team and provide the bonuses you're all looking for. Even JML people arent happy with his ultimate and how it charges. So there are fixes that ppl want to happen to both GLs and ultimately some ppl are going to be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.
New sith toon can be an excellent addition to useful but obsolete siths, we have got powerful GAS, JML, JKL, but really the latest good sith was Malak and it was quite long ago.
Why should we pay or have to farm for a new character because CG released a sub-par, unbalanced, underperforming GL?
All other characters for the other GLs that had synergies (Safari Finn and Poe, Hux, Sith Trooper) were all released before hand.
But yes. Let's waste resources, time, and/or money for another character to Fix what is broken.
I really feel for SEE owners. The GLs never really come out as we expect them. Many players experienced the same thing the first time around with Rey and Kylo. Maybe instead of a buff, SEE will get a new toon to complete the team and provide the bonuses you're all looking for. Even JML people arent happy with his ultimate and how it charges. So there are fixes that ppl want to happen to both GLs and ultimately some ppl are going to be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.
New sith toon can be an excellent addition to useful but obsolete siths, we have got powerful GAS, JML, JKL, but really the latest good sith was Malak and it was quite long ago.
Why should we pay or have to farm for a new character because CG released a sub-par, unbalanced, underperforming GL?
All other characters for the other GLs that had synergies (Safari Finn and Poe, Hux, Sith Trooper) were all released before hand.
But yes. Let's waste resources, time, and/or money for another character to Fix what is broken.
100 % agree, players just started losing any hope that smth would be really done regarding SEE. More than a month past since his release and we still don't have info regarding possible buffs and fixes upon him.
100 % agree, players just started losing any hope that smth would be really done regarding SEE. More than a month past since his release and we still don't have info regarding possible buffs and fixes upon him.
It would be really great to have more communication from CG on this. Whether it's "we feel SEE is working as intended, so won't make any changes", or "SEE has performed far worse than anticipated, and we will be making improvements, but haven't decided what yet".
It would be massively helpful to know where SEE stands in CGs eyes, so we can plan accordingly. A month of silence just frustrates players who have invested in something that has not been sold as described.
100 % agree, players just started losing any hope that smth would be really done regarding SEE. More than a month past since his release and we still don't have info regarding possible buffs and fixes upon him.
It would be really great to have more communication from CG on this. Whether it's "we feel SEE is working as intended, so won't make any changes", or "SEE has performed far worse than anticipated, and we will be making improvements, but haven't decided what yet".
It would be massively helpful to know where SEE stands in CGs eyes, so we can plan accordingly. A month of silence just frustrates players who have invested in something that has not been sold as described.
They said back on like page something... a few weeks ago, that they're collecting data and wanted more info. But your right. They've been silent since and we have provided so much info to them (besides what they can already get internally.)
While their at it they can fix and update the 2-5 year old sith... Sid, Maul, Savage, Sassy (especially after her "nerf")
They haven't officially decided anything yet regarding the potential of him not meeting fulfilling their design, and when they will they'll let us know.
What I'd like to know is what their expectations for his value were, and what it is he's supposed to be good at. Considering what we have to work with so far, it seems obvious that most players don't see much value in investing in SEE, and most SEE owners don't see much value in using him or aren't able to use him successfully.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
You could say that same think about slkr though then
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
You could say that same think about slkr though then
Tell me one FO team that works better without SLKR.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
You could say that same think about slkr though then
Tell me one FO team that works better without SLKR.
My favorite part of the video, after the "see, Rey's damage is as low as SEE if she's attacking a relic SET with Defense Up!", is when Rey "deletes" him, as they say, from full HP/prot with one whirlwind.
Rey also provides immense support and makes herself invulnerable and stuff, though, so she's kind of a weird attacker. And the new Mandalorian guys are ostensibly going to help her more too. I'm not sure what SEE's supposed to be good at though outside of JML (thanks to JML's weaknesses, and SEE only being okay against Jedi).
So according to this data and your statement about proper modding, owners of JML know how to properly mod their GLS, and owners of SEE don't know at all. Really ?!) LOL.
If you make conclusion on smb's experience on one individual arena that means nothing, statistics demonstrates that you see some kind of exception, more than a tendency. The reality is that people didn't use him on arena, according to different reason like they cannot leave him for defense, they cannot beat Kylo double-tank team, etc.
Haha whatever dude, you can interpret the data in the way it benefits your argument.
Those screenshots don't tell anything about mods, what they do tell me (again, to ME) is that a bunch of veterans (and probably some whales) were closer to the requirements to unlock JML and that's why there are a lot more.
I agree I can be wrong, it can be that this time players waited to see what GL was working better or is making climbing easier and they decided it's JML.
So according to this data and your statement about proper modding, owners of JML know how to properly mod their GLS, and owners of SEE don't know at all. Really ?!) LOL.
If you make conclusion on smb's experience on one individual arena that means nothing, statistics demonstrates that you see some kind of exception, more than a tendency. The reality is that people didn't use him on arena, according to different reason like they cannot leave him for defense, they cannot beat Kylo double-tank team, etc.
Haha whatever dude, you can interpret the data in the way it benefits your argument.
Those **** don't tell anything about mods, what they do tell me (again, to ME) is that a bunch of veterans (and probably some whales) were closer to the requirements to unlock JML and that's why there are a lot more.
I agree I can be wrong, it can be that this time players waited to see what GL was working better or is making climbing easier and they decided it's JML.
If it wasn't over a month since release, I'd be inclined to agree. At this point though, even a lot of F2P players would be cranking out the requirements for SEE. If we don't see a huge numbers jump in a couple days, maybe up to a week, then it's probably because SEE is seen as a subpar GL and needs to be adjusted accordingly.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
You could say that same think about slkr though then
Tell me one FO team that works better without SLKR.
^that's not remotely what he meant
Then what did he mean, considering the guy pointed out SE (aka sith) without SEE works better than SEE with SE. Or did he mean that SE works better without Kylo, a FO character who wasnt designed to work with sith, which still is inaccurate.
Haha whatever dude, you can interpret the data in the way it benefits your argument.
Those screenshots don't tell anything about mods, what they do tell me (again, to ME) is that a bunch of veterans (and probably some whales) were closer to the requirements to unlock JML and that's why there are a lot more.
I agree I can be wrong, it can be that this time players waited to see what GL was working better or is making climbing easier and they decided it's JML.
So let's compare instead to the total number of SEE and JML owned, at level 85
So there are a total of 2279 SEE owned, 4964 JML owned.
Now, compare to Arena stats posted above:
12.5% of SEE in the game are in top 10 of arena.
60.9% of JML in the game are in top 10 of arena.
That, alone, should speak volumes, and make glaringly obvious how poor SEE is when you compare those numbers instead of just looking at the total in the Arena.
So, for Arena usage, it seems JML is the best value currently, and SEE is by far the worst.
This does not come at a surprise to me really.
With JML, you can put great supporting heros with him that are meta in their own regard - Jedi Knight Luke, General Anakin, among others.
With SEE, you put sith with him, most of which are 2+ years old and extremely underpowered/outdated. Darth Revan, Bastila Fallen, Malak are newer and more meta, BUT they have anti-synergy with SEE that makes them useless. (DR/BSF Fear Debuff hinders SEE, and Malak has no protection which SEE team relies on).
My favorite part of the video, after the "see, Rey's damage is as low as SEE if she's attacking a relic SET with Defense Up!", is when Rey "deletes" him, as they say, from full HP/prot with one whirlwind.
Rey also provides immense support and makes herself invulnerable and stuff, though, so she's kind of a weird attacker. And the new Mandalorian guys are ostensibly going to help her more too. I'm not sure what SEE's supposed to be good at though outside of JML (thanks to JML's weaknesses, and SEE only being okay against Jedi).
Or you can actually look at the videos and comments,see that seep was hitting harder than anyone else on the board, and as an aside I laughed at rey doing 1/10th of See's damage). The subsequent video I also showed seep doing 100k vs rey after ultimate to the point I couldn't even delay it to get to the ultimate.
Would I love seep to be buffed,yes. His kit has a major flaw against 1 person and essentially the inability to get to the ultimate. He's too vulnerable to some weaker older teams that have cause other new shiny things to get a buff, so it would be consistent with cg's history.
That being said, I greatly enjoy my seep, and don't regret my investment. My arena climb is a piece of cake,and given where my overall gp is, I barely face 2 GL in GAC and doubt I will face 3, so he can either be my best offensive team or my 2nd best defensive team depending on which 1-2 gl my opponent has, and I'll see how he does in wave 4 of the next ds geotb. He isn't better than slkr, and I have better full game utility with Rey, but I'm happier with seep than I would have been with JML (plus I'm so far away from JKL let alone JML it wasn't in the cards)
So according to this data and your statement about proper modding, owners of JML know how to properly mod their GLS, and owners of SEE don't know at all. Really ?!) LOL.
If you make conclusion on smb's experience on one individual arena that means nothing, statistics demonstrates that you see some kind of exception, more than a tendency. The reality is that people didn't use him on arena, according to different reason like they cannot leave him for defense, they cannot beat Kylo double-tank team, etc.
Haha whatever dude, you can interpret the data in the way it benefits your argument.
Those screenshots don't tell anything about mods, what they do tell me (again, to ME) is that a bunch of veterans (and probably some whales) were closer to the requirements to unlock JML and that's why there are a lot more.
I agree I can be wrong, it can be that this time players waited to see what GL was working better or is making climbing easier and they decided it's JML.
Seems everybody will be glad to see your SEE with proper modding Beating Double-tank SLKR, if no i find this conversation irrelevant.
This was already mentioned, but offence equal to X potency could potentially help with the lack of damage. And it would also make at least 2 of his requirements better under his lead
Honestly, it should be able to be done with good RNG and mods.
An ultimate JML will beat a non-ultimate SEE about 40% of the time (based on my testing), and, the whole point of soloing SEE is so that his ultimate can't build up. So...
Honestly, it should be able to be done with good RNG and mods.
An ultimate JML will beat a non-ultimate SEE about 40% of the time (based on my testing), and, the whole point of soloing SEE is so that his ultimate can't build up. So...
In a very similar vein, SEE should be able to solo himself if he can survive the first turn post-ult against a full team. His lightning will autokill two, and maybe kill more depending on if he's removed all the other protection from the field with multiple links. Then SEE vs Ult SEE will come down to how much the shock and damage of Ult Basic can eat through SEE
This was already mentioned, but offence equal to X potency could potentially help with the lack of damage. And it would also make at least 2 of his requirements better under his lead
Yeah. I suggested that. Would make sid decent.. not even good.. cause 200% more damage on a toon that hits 5k does nothing.
Would help out in general.
The devs need to speak up asap. This is just getting out of control.
AND FOR ALL YOU SAYING SEE DOES SO MUCH DAMAGE... Reys basic was hitting the same as SEE... and she has 300k whirlwinds... and an ult that does something... and support..
Edit: SEE had weapon tech and rey was still doing more then him... let that sink in. 40k damage that is after all armor is ignored. Excuse me? F no. Thats trash.
A more interesting mechanic imo would be feeding some measure of stats/mastery of defeated allies to SEE or survivors in general. CG is familiar with this mechanic since both this and the prot/hp regen seem borrowed from an older sith galactic challenge modifier.
Sid is so bad he's basically just gonna hit like a wet noodle and die. Truly the predecessor of SEE, despite Sid's leadership providing more damage than SEE does.
Replies
Why should we pay or have to farm for a new character because CG released a sub-par, unbalanced, underperforming GL?
All other characters for the other GLs that had synergies (Safari Finn and Poe, Hux, Sith Trooper) were all released before hand.
But yes. Let's waste resources, time, and/or money for another character to Fix what is broken.
100 % agree, players just started losing any hope that smth would be really done regarding SEE. More than a month past since his release and we still don't have info regarding possible buffs and fixes upon him.
It would be really great to have more communication from CG on this. Whether it's "we feel SEE is working as intended, so won't make any changes", or "SEE has performed far worse than anticipated, and we will be making improvements, but haven't decided what yet".
It would be massively helpful to know where SEE stands in CGs eyes, so we can plan accordingly. A month of silence just frustrates players who have invested in something that has not been sold as described.
They said back on like page something... a few weeks ago, that they're collecting data and wanted more info. But your right. They've been silent since and we have provided so much info to them (besides what they can already get internally.)
While their at it they can fix and update the 2-5 year old sith... Sid, Maul, Savage, Sassy (especially after her "nerf")
What I'd like to know is what their expectations for his value were, and what it is he's supposed to be good at. Considering what we have to work with so far, it seems obvious that most players don't see much value in investing in SEE, and most SEE owners don't see much value in using him or aren't able to use him successfully.
You could say that same think about slkr though then
Tell me one FO team that works better without SLKR.
^that's not remotely what he meant
Rey also provides immense support and makes herself invulnerable and stuff, though, so she's kind of a weird attacker. And the new Mandalorian guys are ostensibly going to help her more too. I'm not sure what SEE's supposed to be good at though outside of JML (thanks to JML's weaknesses, and SEE only being okay against Jedi).
Haha whatever dude, you can interpret the data in the way it benefits your argument.
Those screenshots don't tell anything about mods, what they do tell me (again, to ME) is that a bunch of veterans (and probably some whales) were closer to the requirements to unlock JML and that's why there are a lot more.
I agree I can be wrong, it can be that this time players waited to see what GL was working better or is making climbing easier and they decided it's JML.
If it wasn't over a month since release, I'd be inclined to agree. At this point though, even a lot of F2P players would be cranking out the requirements for SEE. If we don't see a huge numbers jump in a couple days, maybe up to a week, then it's probably because SEE is seen as a subpar GL and needs to be adjusted accordingly.
Then what did he mean, considering the guy pointed out SE (aka sith) without SEE works better than SEE with SE. Or did he mean that SE works better without Kylo, a FO character who wasnt designed to work with sith, which still is inaccurate.
So let's compare instead to the total number of SEE and JML owned, at level 85
So there are a total of 2279 SEE owned, 4964 JML owned.
Now, compare to Arena stats posted above:
12.5% of SEE in the game are in top 10 of arena.
60.9% of JML in the game are in top 10 of arena.
That, alone, should speak volumes, and make glaringly obvious how poor SEE is when you compare those numbers instead of just looking at the total in the Arena.
SLKR
23,350 owned.
19.5% in arena top 10.
8.3% are at arena rank 1.
Rey
21,479 owned.
23.8% in arena top 10.
10.39% are at arena rank 1.
JML
4,964 owned.
60.9% in arena top 10.
27.55% are at arena rank 1.
SEE
2,279 owned.
12.5% in arena top 10.
6.1% are at arena rank 1.
So, for Arena usage, it seems JML is the best value currently, and SEE is by far the worst.
This does not come at a surprise to me really.
With JML, you can put great supporting heros with him that are meta in their own regard - Jedi Knight Luke, General Anakin, among others.
With SEE, you put sith with him, most of which are 2+ years old and extremely underpowered/outdated. Darth Revan, Bastila Fallen, Malak are newer and more meta, BUT they have anti-synergy with SEE that makes them useless. (DR/BSF Fear Debuff hinders SEE, and Malak has no protection which SEE team relies on).
Or you can actually look at the videos and comments,see that seep was hitting harder than anyone else on the board, and as an aside I laughed at rey doing 1/10th of See's damage). The subsequent video I also showed seep doing 100k vs rey after ultimate to the point I couldn't even delay it to get to the ultimate.
Would I love seep to be buffed,yes. His kit has a major flaw against 1 person and essentially the inability to get to the ultimate. He's too vulnerable to some weaker older teams that have cause other new shiny things to get a buff, so it would be consistent with cg's history.
That being said, I greatly enjoy my seep, and don't regret my investment. My arena climb is a piece of cake,and given where my overall gp is, I barely face 2 GL in GAC and doubt I will face 3, so he can either be my best offensive team or my 2nd best defensive team depending on which 1-2 gl my opponent has, and I'll see how he does in wave 4 of the next ds geotb. He isn't better than slkr, and I have better full game utility with Rey, but I'm happier with seep than I would have been with JML (plus I'm so far away from JKL let alone JML it wasn't in the cards)
Rey solos SEE - Its just Ian video released today.
Well he already got the Jericho nuke, so a solo can't be too far behind.
Then again, his dmg is so low against DS that he probably cant get through SEEs protection recovery
Actually it might be funny to see someone try to solo SEE with SEE, it'd be nice to get a good laugh out of seeing SEE destroy someone.
This game is turning into one big SEE meme.
Honestly, it should be able to be done with good RNG and mods.
An ultimate JML will beat a non-ultimate SEE about 40% of the time (based on my testing), and, the whole point of soloing SEE is so that his ultimate can't build up. So...
In a very similar vein, SEE should be able to solo himself if he can survive the first turn post-ult against a full team. His lightning will autokill two, and maybe kill more depending on if he's removed all the other protection from the field with multiple links. Then SEE vs Ult SEE will come down to how much the shock and damage of Ult Basic can eat through SEE
Yeah. I suggested that. Would make sid decent.. not even good.. cause 200% more damage on a toon that hits 5k does nothing.
Would help out in general.
The devs need to speak up asap. This is just getting out of control.
AND FOR ALL YOU SAYING SEE DOES SO MUCH DAMAGE... Reys basic was hitting the same as SEE... and she has 300k whirlwinds... and an ult that does something... and support..
Edit: SEE had weapon tech and rey was still doing more then him... let that sink in. 40k damage that is after all armor is ignored. Excuse me? F no. Thats trash.
Sid is so bad he's basically just gonna hit like a wet noodle and die. Truly the predecessor of SEE, despite Sid's leadership providing more damage than SEE does.