This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
Your comparing a r7 to r 4/5. yeah they'll do less.
My SE are properly modded and DR does the same or more then my SEE. My treya hits as hard as my SEE and she has 4k less special offense.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
Am I missing something? It looks like in the beginning SEE is hitting for about 22k. Also, of course DR isn't hitting super hard if he's not in lead, and moreover loses Sith Empire synergy.
Rey's damage is low but she has whirlwinds and does a quarter of a million damage with her ultimate.
Fair point about DR in the JML battle, but if everyone's saying that DR can beat JML without SEE it's because... well, I think it's overstated but everyone's saying that DR can beat JML without SEE (primarily JML owners).
@Shiryu ironically, the setup @thedrjojo is showing here with rey is similar to that of JML: a linked Jedi tank that doesn't die. It basically puts Rey in the niche SEE fits into, so all this proves is that SEE has a narrow scenario he's good at... which is what I've been saying in almost every comment for days.
Note how GAS stays up until his prot is drained by SEE, before he kneels, thereby preventing him from ever getting back up. Perfect for SEE but not really a display of his power in a general battle.
Just adding to this post, I just finished SEE. Really bad toon. He can only beat JML. I haven't won a single battle against either SLKR or Rey. I don't think thats very balanced. He should be buffed so that he's relevant and those of us who spent money to get him can actually enjoy using the toon.
Just adding to this post, I just finished SEE. Really bad toon. He can only beat JML. I haven't won a single battle against either SLKR or Rey. I don't think thats very balanced. He should be buffed so that he's relevant and those of us who spent money to get him can actually enjoy using the toon.
SEE can beat only JML, meanwhile JML wipes the floor with SLKR and Rey. And JML can also beat a SEE on defense with a little bit of strategy.
Have you found a way to beat JML that has Wat Tambor on his team? I can't seem to win that one.
I know Kyno asks for videos but seeing those makes me frustrated that See isn't just a little tiny bit better or more imporantly, fun. I honestly think removing the light side restrictions on his abilities and making him do the same Damage to dark side would be enough. Giving SEE the abiliity to hit Kylo for 65-70K at the end of the fight vs. 28-30k could make that battle a toss up.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
I know Kyno asks for videos but seeing those makes me frustrated that See isn't just a little tiny bit better or more imporantly, fun. I honestly think removing the light side restrictions on his abilities and making him do the same Damage to dark side would be enough. Giving SEE the abiliity to hit Kylo for 65-70K at the end of the fight vs. 28-30k could make that battle a toss up.
People that don't think SEE needs an adjustment fit in 1 of 3 categories. 1. They have all GL's/Whale the game without real concern for meta shifts. 2. Went JML and don't want to risk an even remote meta shift. JML will own arena in one of his various comps. 3. Are simply delusional.
While SLKR is amazing the arena shards that I'm in (have 3 accounts + my wife, so four total) seem very flexible on getting and staying in the top 10. But what it really comes down to is A. How hard is it time climb as the attack in the current meta. Most people collaborate in shards for payouts. Simply put most of my shards have gone from scattered Rey/SLKR's to slowly a complete transformation to JML's. In all 4 shards there are 2 SEE's in the top 50. Between them all there are probably now pushing 20+ JML's. That data is indicative to the climate.
When I currently fight any GL but SEE it has the potential to go wrong. The two SEE's I climb over, one uses an odd comp (vader, dooku, sith mara, SeT) and the other using DR, Malak, etc are both easy kills. Like disgustingly easy. They don't seem improperly modded on any toon. Maybe the AI uses them wrong but I usually have my entire team standing at the end. I will also say that these two individuals have had to ask teams to de-mod for climbs. So what does that tell you?
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
Does no one have Kylo? Or Rey? Or Imperial Troopers? Or Geos? Or Sith Empire?
Also "it doesn't matter what proof I provide..." works both ways. This entire thread's worth of proof apparently isn't good enough for you just because for some reason your shard can't beat a SEE squad?
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
Does no one have Kylo? Or Rey? Or Imperial Troopers? Or Geos? Or Sith Empire?
Also "it doesn't matter what proof I provide..." works both ways. This entire thread's worth of proof apparently isn't good enough for you just because for some reason your shard can't beat a SEE squad?
Lol dude apparently another problem with you all is that you can't read.
I never said he was unbeatable, most of the people in the arena server lacks the mods and characters to beat him, those who hold the top ten obviously can beat him (me included), I specifically said that JML teams don't stand a chance against his SEE team because he's very well modded.
I never said the so-called proof provided in this thread is not good enough, but it only shows that he's WAI, just lackluster based on your own expectations (and aided by the unwillingness of modding him for other things that's not speed).
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
Does no one have Kylo? Or Rey? Or Imperial Troopers? Or Geos? Or Sith Empire?
Also "it doesn't matter what proof I provide..." works both ways. This entire thread's worth of proof apparently isn't good enough for you just because for some reason your shard can't beat a SEE squad?
Lol dude apparently another problem with you all is that you can't read.
I never said he was unbeatable, most of the people in the arena server lacks the mods and characters to beat him, those who hold the top ten obviously can beat him (me included), I specifically said that JML teams don't stand a chance against his SEE team because he's very well modded.
I never said the so-called proof provided in this thread is not good enough, but it only shows that he's WAI, just lackluster based on your own expectations (and aided by the unwillingness of modding him for other things that's not speed).
How new is your shard? Is it so new that no one has padme teams they can beat SEE with? How many GLs total? Do we know for sure people can't beat him, or is he spending crystals on arena refresh to keep his spot? What is his account so we can look up his mods?
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
I guess this is also just a verbiage issue. Saying 1-shot, usually means 1 shot, not after the battle the finishing blow. I would say using the term 1-shot in this context is a little more "hype" than really killing SEE in 1-shot, unless that image started with him with full protection and health, which it may not have.
I completely agree. That's why I tried to emphasize that it wasn't anything crazy. People throw around terms like "OBLITERATE" and "ERASE" and "TOTALLY DESTROY" when these terms are far more fitting in the context of Ben Shapiro's arguments against those with whom he disagrees! But really, what's interesting is damage. Rey being quite capable of hitting SEE for 250k is important context when discussing SEE killing Rey 1v1.
Btw, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is simply a modding difference. The more likely explanation is that in the picture where SEE survives, he had most of his prot pool intact. I don't think SEE has a million HP. He doesn't have an HP-increasing mechanic, say, the way SLKR does.
I'm not jumping to any conclusions. he did have full health and around 3/4 protection. this SEE seems to be modded differently than others talk about with a huge focus on health. but he also regens full health and protection when a sith ally dies, so its not so crazy to expect him to be pretty high up there in those pools as its approaching a 1v1 situation.
The team I saw, very specific, I know, not saying its end all be all, is doing well on defense, which usually means it will be much better under player control. so I thought I would share what i saw, since there was no "1-shot", and it seemed to play well.
I dont know the players experience vs SLKR, but the LS seem to be no issue.
seems to be the standard Trio, and WAT, or other slight variants, but the key seems to be SEE, Treya, DN. then other variations on the last 2. again shard dependent and whatnot. (not saying end all be all, and not my testing so very limited info at the moment)
The reason why treya is used is because AB completely SCREWS SEE harder then any of the other GLs. (SEE does no damage at all with his basics.) Take SEE and make it so his 3rd turn, minimum, is when he can even link. This is another reason why speed is used so he can at least attempt to outrun the other gls (who are faster to begin with) so he attempt to get link up.
DN is used cause the AI (specifically JKR and gas) hard target the crap outta treya which feeds DN health/TM.
Which leaves the +2. Normally sion (complete the trio) and SET cause he's a wall.
I left my SEE in per the above post and I've dropped like a rock. Even had people short hit me 2 places just for the "easy win" to which they told me it was. some were slkr (to be expected) but also the reys won as well.
People with JML also have rey or slkr... so its useless there cause all the JML users just swapped out jml for rey and got the free win.
Maybe cause my shard is older so the players (who've stuck around) are better then newer ones.. maybe?
Or maybe its cause Rey does more damage then this "attacker" and a well timed ult from rey nullifies everything SEE can do (linked target will die but see ALWAYS links rey for 0 reason.)
Treya can also isolate rey to help keep things under control. (obviously not on D)
have you tired, WAT to help solidify sion or SET (i'm sure you have, just asking because he seems like he would be the better option to hold on D)
the mods got together for a chat last night and this topic came up, i figured i would share, these GLs being the second set, has not only set a level of expectation, but also has many players getting 2nd or 3rd GL, so when things dont work out right away, being that there are options, its easy to just go back to what you know. Previous "meta shifts" (introduction of new powerful toons), had more of a sink or swim thing going on.
yes shards will be different, there is no getting around that, but you could give some context, where did you drop too? Sure players will take an easier win, but that is comp specific. I will short hop a mal fleet over some Kenobi variations. this is always going to be the game.
and just a note, from the beginning they have said well timed ultimates for Rey and SLKR can "turn the tide", so as i said before, its not going to be odd if Reys ultimate is a downfall on SEE at times.
Again, i'm just talking, I am sure you have tried things, I'm not saying he is fine or no changes need to be made. just had a few side conversations with people who are going good, and figured I would try to work out some of the details.
Yep. tried wat. He gives out 1 tech before he's either stunned, AB, or dead. Offense or defense. Offense wise sion generally doesn't die with prot tech on him... until rey just deletes him instantly.
I had 2 health primaries (cross and circle) on my SEE along with the secondary health set. got him up to around 140k with the speed set. then I tried 2 prot primaries... but his low base prot didn't help much. his damage was even worse then now (I swapped 1 health primary for an offense circle). CD triangle is a must. gives the best bang.
his damage is way to low for having 0 utility. 4min 30sec battle and hes hitting 60k against a LS deceived target. thats crap.
after 4min my slkr is hitting 400k+ with a permanent stun and lowing the enemy stats.
I'm currently 16 with my SEE and half the shard hasn't moved yet. Normally with my SLKR, DR, bast, GBA, hux team I hold much better then that..
You say SEE's damage is crap, but you gave him an speed set with protection primaries (then you swapped a health primary for an offense circle? Please share where I can find one of those), that just doesn't make any sense.
You all just need to use the correct toons and mod them right.
SEE overall offense stats don't scale. The modest mastery gains only take into account offense from his mastery. And his damage multipliers are low.
If it's "wrong" for an attacker to be modded for speed over offense (DR, anyone?), then it may just mean that the character benefits more from other stats than just damage. Like in this case. Especially since SEE has relatively low base speed, it'd be cool if he could mod for offense and have his offense scale for SLKR, but as it stands, if there's much benefit from modding for speed, it's hardly clear that that modding is wrong.
Sorry if this is overly harsh, but a lot of these SEE owners have good mods and have put a lot of time into trying to find some way to squeeze some measure of value out of SEE. The last thing anyone needs is for random people to jump in every 3 days insisting that the modding must be wrong but with nothing supporting that opinion.
Well after leaving SEE in all day I dropped to 4 hahahah!!!!
Easy climb! But I have a feeling it’s only because my shard mates practiced and then forfeit so others can practice from 1-2 positions by attacking backwards.
And kyno I used SEE,trium and SET.
I’m going to leave it in defence again and see the outcome.
Don’t think I’ll be lucky twice lol
Rank 4 is the magic spot. Everyone knows that!
Lol I doubt they have good mods on SEE.
Not saying modding for speed is wrong, but I don't think SEE needs to be fast, you can't compare him to DR because he gets so much offense from his own kit (do you remember ferocity?), if he's an attacker mod him for offense, like with Rey, I don't understand why most of the people mod her for health and speed when she's an attacker, my Rey is in the slow side but it's the 6th overall on Physical Damage (of all the Rey's registered by swgoh.gg) and I find it the best way to mod her, the problem is that for whatever reason you believe in, all of you expected him to be on par and something very similar to SLKR, you want SEE to gain mastery at the same rate as SLKR.
And it doesn't matter what proof I provide, you all will still find ways to say he's not working correctly (based on what? Your own misconception of what you feel/want/wish SEE should be capable off), or you will question the strategy used or the modding of the teams that I can show you being beaten by SEE.
The guy that's running SEE-Trio-Malak in my arena server hasn't fallen beyond top ten, it's simply because all the JML don't stand a chance against his team, SEE gains Ultimate Charge incredibly fast and every time I see his Ultimate bar glow I know I'm going to lose at least two toons and the other 3 will be heavily damaged
Does no one have Kylo? Or Rey? Or Imperial Troopers? Or Geos? Or Sith Empire?
Also "it doesn't matter what proof I provide..." works both ways. This entire thread's worth of proof apparently isn't good enough for you just because for some reason your shard can't beat a SEE squad?
Lol dude apparently another problem with you all is that you can't read.
I never said he was unbeatable, most of the people in the arena server lacks the mods and characters to beat him, those who hold the top ten obviously can beat him (me included), I specifically said that JML teams don't stand a chance against his SEE team because he's very well modded.
I never said the so-called proof provided in this thread is not good enough, but it only shows that he's WAI, just lackluster based on your own expectations (and aided by the unwillingness of modding him for other things that's not speed).
How new is your shard? Is it so new that no one has padme teams they can beat SEE with? How many GLs total? Do we know for sure people can't beat him, or is he spending crystals on arena refresh to keep his spot? What is his account so we can look up his mods?
New? It will be five years old this anniversary
I can share you his mods for sure, no reason to get him involved directly, and no, he doesn't need to spend crystals to stay in the same spot.
And as Kyno said, not everyone can have the same result with counters, and the same applies for you SEE users on offense.
When I currently fight any GL but SEE it has the potential to go wrong. The two SEE's I climb over, one uses an odd comp (vader, dooku, sith mara, SeT) and the other using DR, Malak, etc are both easy kills. Like disgustingly easy. They don't seem improperly modded on any toon. Maybe the AI uses them wrong but I usually have my entire team standing at the end. I will also say that these two individuals have had to ask teams to de-mod for climbs. So what does that tell you?
This last part is exactly the point a couple people were making earlier. SEE with random Sith against a non-Jedi team, compared to any other GL with their faction, is a stark difference. It's hard to imagine anything happening other than SEE totally getting kitten on, even if SEE is on offense.
And the data on what GL people use to stay on defense and climb is huge. I think we can all see that very few of the GLs in the data are SEE, and if you look before or after PO they can't use SEE if they want to succeed. People just aren't really using SEE anywhere near a frequency that says "yeah, SEE is an equal GL." You can look at the number of SEE owners who aren't using SEE in arena much, or you can look at how many people just aren't getting SEE.
Lol dude apparently another problem with you all is that you can't read.
I never said the so-called proof provided in this thread is not good enough, but it only shows that he's WAI, just lackluster based on your own expectations (and aided by the unwillingness of modding him for other things that's not speed).
Nonsense. People are trying all sorts of mods--speed, protection, offense, CD. It doesn't help much. Feel free to read through the posts--especially the ones in the chain you're responding to--before weighing in.
Is SEE working as intended? IDK. He's very far from the descriptions in the developer insights. It's not clear what CG's expectations were for him--we can only assume what their expectations are based on existing GLs, and since SEE is incredibly far off in general, it's fair for people to think that maybe this isn't what SEE intended.
If you want to assume this is what CG intended, go for it. Maybe he is. Maybe CG is scared of DR's power already due to his ability to climb with Thrawn as a counter squad (hardly meta, of course) and feels like Sith are too strong of a faction to have a normal GL, so they stuck a GL ability on this guy, locked his modest damage behind an ultimate, and figured, "alright, he'll hold better against meta squads from 2 years ago so that's enough."
So according to this data and your statement about proper modding, owners of JML know how to properly mod their GLS, and owners of SEE don't know at all. Really ?!) LOL.
If you make conclusion on smb's experience on one individual arena that means nothing, statistics demonstrates that you see some kind of exception, more than a tendency. The reality is that people didn't use him on arena, according to different reason like they cannot leave him for defense, they cannot beat Kylo double-tank team, etc.
@SithAmer I'm not sure this is so terrible. If JML on offense can pull this damage together, that's kinda cool. If SEE actually did something for his squad or himself it'd help though, even if this would probably still defeat him.
But this does show that the one tiny thing SEE is supposed to be "zomg god tier unbeatable" at is more about SEE on offense. Meanwhile SEE is immensely weak everywhere else just to make up for this overrated (and arguably slightly too strong vs Jedi, for no reason) niche.
@Xagen wow, all these Sith players who already had Triumvirate with high relics and good mods must just not know how to play compared to all the players with strong LS rosters who just slapped together a bunch of titans and can smash through the predominant FO squad (on offense or defense) that SEE can't even beat at all on offense and that solos SEE on defense.
Just adding to this post, I just finished SEE. Really bad toon. He can only beat JML. I haven't won a single battle against either SLKR or Rey. I don't think thats very balanced. He should be buffed so that he's relevant and those of us who spent money to get him can actually enjoy using the toon.
SEE can beat only JML, meanwhile JML wipes the floor with SLKR and Rey. And JML can also beat a SEE on defense with a little bit of strategy.
Have you found a way to beat JML that has Wat Tambor on his team? I can't seem to win that one.
That’s not true. SEE can beat Rey & JML consistently with a proper squad. I recommend people look for squads that are not Sith-only. I can take 1st every day with either SEE or SLKR. My squad:
I still hold that SEE needs a rework in order to make strategy less RNG-dependent and enable him to fit better with Sith. And most importantly add something useful to the transformation ability + make him less vulnerable to debuffs.
I mean what is this? The great deceiver and manipulator standing there like „Sorry for the inconvenience, I can’t deceive, manipulate or annihilate right now, I am ability blocked“
I really feel for SEE owners. The GLs never really come out as we expect them. Many players experienced the same thing the first time around with Rey and Kylo. Maybe instead of a buff, SEE will get a new toon to complete the team and provide the bonuses you're all looking for. Even JML people arent happy with his ultimate and how it charges. So there are fixes that ppl want to happen to both GLs and ultimately some ppl are going to be left with a bitter taste in their mouths.
New sith toon can be an excellent addition to useful but obsolete siths, we have got powerful GAS, JML, JKL, but really the latest good sith was Malak and it was quite long ago.
It's hard to imagine tbh. CG already got Sith players to dump mad relics on basically every Sith except Savage and Assassin (although they did suggest Assassin for SEE's squad). And toons like Malak and Thrawn that one might expect to be good with SEE don't get a lot and are much stronger under SLKR.
It seems more likely that we'll eventually see a real meta shift, and new GLs will come out that also crush SEE before he ever had a chance to be anything but than a distant 4th best arena team.
I don't have SEE yet, but as I see he is ok against light side teams, but too weak against dark side teams.
Maybe it could be a solution if from the below skills the Light Side restriciton would be removed.
Sow Discord
Sith Eternal Emperor is immune to taunt effects and Turn Meter reduction. Deceived enemies can't counter attack, and Deceived Rebel and Jedi enemies can't gain bonus Turn Meter.
At the start of Sith Eternal Emperor's turn, if no enemies are Deceived, the weakest Light Side enemy becomes Deceived for 2 turns. Whenever a Deceived enemy uses an ability, their weakest ally without Deceived becomes Deceived for the max duration Sith Eternal Emperor could inflict on them (limit once per turn), and Sith Eternal Emperor recovers 2% Protection. Deceived can't be copied, dispelled, or resisted.
Revitalized Shock
Deal Special damage to target enemy and inflict Shock for 2 turns, which can't be copied or dispelled. This attack deals 150% more damage to Deceived Light Side enemies. If the target was already Deceived, reduce the cooldown of Power! Unlimited Power! by 1 for each Deceived enemy. This attack can't be evaded.
Replies
This was a battle I just did, seep vs gas/rey. I actually couldn't achieve what I wanted to do cause his ultimate just deleted Rey. But in the beginning when I'm attacking gas, you can see seep doing about 50-100% more damage than Darth revan does, so that's why I'm not getting where everyone is concerned about his damage output. I also saw a nice crit from rey on set for 2000... Dude is a brickwall.
More of the same,this time vs jkr lead jml. Dr was deleted early and did nothing for the battle, so everyone talking about how it's sith empire and not seep. I wanted the most dramatic ultimate so dragged it along, but that ultimate is so satisfying to just melt all the jedi away.
And these are r4-5 sith empire toons, with ok but not god tier mods.
Your comparing a r7 to r 4/5. yeah they'll do less.
My SE are properly modded and DR does the same or more then my SEE. My treya hits as hard as my SEE and she has 4k less special offense.
GAS with rey is only for climbing through Slkrs,it is not a defensive team.Rey lead would have whirlwinded your toons a lot quicker and you would be left in a 1v1 race to survive rey's ult before downing her with basics.
Rey's damage is low but she has whirlwinds and does a quarter of a million damage with her ultimate.
Fair point about DR in the JML battle, but if everyone's saying that DR can beat JML without SEE it's because... well, I think it's overstated but everyone's saying that DR can beat JML without SEE (primarily JML owners).
Note how GAS stays up until his prot is drained by SEE, before he kneels, thereby preventing him from ever getting back up. Perfect for SEE but not really a display of his power in a general battle.
SEE can beat only JML, meanwhile JML wipes the floor with SLKR and Rey. And JML can also beat a SEE on defense with a little bit of strategy.
Have you found a way to beat JML that has Wat Tambor on his team? I can't seem to win that one.
People that don't think SEE needs an adjustment fit in 1 of 3 categories. 1. They have all GL's/Whale the game without real concern for meta shifts. 2. Went JML and don't want to risk an even remote meta shift. JML will own arena in one of his various comps. 3. Are simply delusional.
While SLKR is amazing the arena shards that I'm in (have 3 accounts + my wife, so four total) seem very flexible on getting and staying in the top 10. But what it really comes down to is A. How hard is it time climb as the attack in the current meta. Most people collaborate in shards for payouts. Simply put most of my shards have gone from scattered Rey/SLKR's to slowly a complete transformation to JML's. In all 4 shards there are 2 SEE's in the top 50. Between them all there are probably now pushing 20+ JML's. That data is indicative to the climate.
When I currently fight any GL but SEE it has the potential to go wrong. The two SEE's I climb over, one uses an odd comp (vader, dooku, sith mara, SeT) and the other using DR, Malak, etc are both easy kills. Like disgustingly easy. They don't seem improperly modded on any toon. Maybe the AI uses them wrong but I usually have my entire team standing at the end. I will also say that these two individuals have had to ask teams to de-mod for climbs. So what does that tell you?
Does no one have Kylo? Or Rey? Or Imperial Troopers? Or Geos? Or Sith Empire?
Also "it doesn't matter what proof I provide..." works both ways. This entire thread's worth of proof apparently isn't good enough for you just because for some reason your shard can't beat a SEE squad?
A little humor to keep the atmosphere in this thread light
Lol dude apparently another problem with you all is that you can't read.
I never said he was unbeatable, most of the people in the arena server lacks the mods and characters to beat him, those who hold the top ten obviously can beat him (me included), I specifically said that JML teams don't stand a chance against his SEE team because he's very well modded.
I never said the so-called proof provided in this thread is not good enough, but it only shows that he's WAI, just lackluster based on your own expectations (and aided by the unwillingness of modding him for other things that's not speed).
How new is your shard? Is it so new that no one has padme teams they can beat SEE with? How many GLs total? Do we know for sure people can't beat him, or is he spending crystals on arena refresh to keep his spot? What is his account so we can look up his mods?
Just because someone makes a video of a counter does not mean everyone can reproduce the results.
I tried to lose the race to show he can tank a few ultimates but he killed rey too quickly in 1v1
See all that video proves is that you could have done better with Drevan lead with Thrawn and SE and no SEE. Sad
I mean if a team can’t finish relatively clean then what is the point.
New? It will be five years old this anniversary
I can share you his mods for sure, no reason to get him involved directly, and no, he doesn't need to spend crystals to stay in the same spot.
And as Kyno said, not everyone can have the same result with counters, and the same applies for you SEE users on offense.
This last part is exactly the point a couple people were making earlier. SEE with random Sith against a non-Jedi team, compared to any other GL with their faction, is a stark difference. It's hard to imagine anything happening other than SEE totally getting kitten on, even if SEE is on offense.
And the data on what GL people use to stay on defense and climb is huge. I think we can all see that very few of the GLs in the data are SEE, and if you look before or after PO they can't use SEE if they want to succeed. People just aren't really using SEE anywhere near a frequency that says "yeah, SEE is an equal GL." You can look at the number of SEE owners who aren't using SEE in arena much, or you can look at how many people just aren't getting SEE.
Nonsense. People are trying all sorts of mods--speed, protection, offense, CD. It doesn't help much. Feel free to read through the posts--especially the ones in the chain you're responding to--before weighing in.
Is SEE working as intended? IDK. He's very far from the descriptions in the developer insights. It's not clear what CG's expectations were for him--we can only assume what their expectations are based on existing GLs, and since SEE is incredibly far off in general, it's fair for people to think that maybe this isn't what SEE intended.
If you want to assume this is what CG intended, go for it. Maybe he is. Maybe CG is scared of DR's power already due to his ability to climb with Thrawn as a counter squad (hardly meta, of course) and feels like Sith are too strong of a faction to have a normal GL, so they stuck a GL ability on this guy, locked his modest damage behind an ultimate, and figured, "alright, he'll hold better against meta squads from 2 years ago so that's enough."
So according to this data and your statement about proper modding, owners of JML know how to properly mod their GLS, and owners of SEE don't know at all. Really ?!) LOL.
If you make conclusion on smb's experience on one individual arena that means nothing, statistics demonstrates that you see some kind of exception, more than a tendency. The reality is that people didn't use him on arena, according to different reason like they cannot leave him for defense, they cannot beat Kylo double-tank team, etc.
JML Jericho demolition of SEE team. With Metallica song
But this does show that the one tiny thing SEE is supposed to be "zomg god tier unbeatable" at is more about SEE on offense. Meanwhile SEE is immensely weak everywhere else just to make up for this overrated (and arguably slightly too strong vs Jedi, for no reason) niche.
That’s not true. SEE can beat Rey & JML consistently with a proper squad. I recommend people look for squads that are not Sith-only. I can take 1st every day with either SEE or SLKR. My squad:
I still hold that SEE needs a rework in order to make strategy less RNG-dependent and enable him to fit better with Sith. And most importantly add something useful to the transformation ability + make him less vulnerable to debuffs.
I mean what is this? The great deceiver and manipulator standing there like „Sorry for the inconvenience, I can’t deceive, manipulate or annihilate right now, I am ability blocked“
It seems more likely that we'll eventually see a real meta shift, and new GLs will come out that also crush SEE before he ever had a chance to be anything but than a distant 4th best arena team.
Maybe it could be a solution if from the below skills the Light Side restriciton would be removed.