@EA_Jesse I have one question, please. How did we go from 500 crystals when something went wrong, to 350 crystals, to Chewie shards?
This is my issue entirely. Mismanagement of client expectations. You start with something and the cut it back after people are used to it. That just makes people angry. Other miss steps that could be avoided in the future are below.
The GW or Galactic Chore I refer to it. It was great on the June 15th update. You had it right and then nerfed it again. Maybe it had something to do with the Mods. IDK but I have been hyper critical of some of your moves. And the June 15th update had me saying you got it right finally and then right back to where you were. Then the smug explanation by John that it wasn't what you intended, it is intended to be hard. Plenty of businesses started with an idea and then had to change with their customers. You are just shoving this stuff down our throats and say tough tittles little ones, deal with it.
Then to slip in the nerf on the mods to make them cost twice as much to level, w/o telling anyone is just ignorant. Being open and honest is always better than not addressing bitter pills. Give us a good explanation as to why you did this or better yet, reverse the nerf. The 5dots are not going to be in vogue anyway for any of the whales so why not give your dolphins and F2P people an avenue to compete.
The potency nerf. There might be a balance reason for this, but to slip that in after people have been working for months to get toons like Teebo up only have them rendered irrelevant is just a kick in the gut.
I could go on and on. Really Listen to your customers and not just the big spenders if you really want this endeavor to survive.
There have been a lot of well thought out post regarding all of the basic business mistakes and things you can do to fix these issues. I really hope you guys can pull a genie out of a bottle to fix this. But sadly, I think it was Pandoras Box you opened.
@EA_Jesse in all seriousness, no troll, theres no need for any more discussions. No need to work on anything. All we want is a ROLLBACK. Give it to us. After all the times you guys messed up and we stuck around, we deserve it. This "mods" thing aint working. Its just gonna get worse. Look at all the hate you guys are taking after this recent update with the mods drop rate and upgrading cost. Unless your next update contains a rollback, the hate is gonna double. The quitters are gonna double. Pokemon Go is out, if you mess up next update you"ll be out of players. Next time don't use us as beta testers. #REALTALK
I have to agree with all the anger in this thread, and threatening to ban us? Ok, go ahead. I can't even bring myself to login anymore. The game ruined its current state. Roll back the game for the love of God, please. My guild is dropping members like flies.
If mods are being obtained too quickly, don't lower the drop rate, cap the opportunities to get them, then raise the cap incrementally, as circumstances dictate.
The Cantina Energy cost is already the cap to the opportunities to obtain mods, especially for F2P. Most of us only do 1~2 (100-300 crystals used) crystal refreshes for this energy per day. At the current state of things, it's either farm characters OR farm mods.
Now don't get me wrong, with proper management, we could evenly distribute our Cantina Energy to do both under the same constraints, but progression time would be reduced by 1/2. With mods becoming more and more mainstream, the pressure to acquire them will increase, so overall crystal refresh rates will increase two-fold across the boards.
So, all in all, us F2P players will need double the patience to survive the mod meta.
That's sort of my point, by further capping the number of battles per day (as gear challenges are capped) then uncapping slowly, it would give f2p more time to make the adjustment while keeping whales from maxing out every character overnight, at least to start.
I would also hope they improve cantina refresh and add cantina energy to go with the regular energy allotments.
And @EA_Jesse I really believe this kind of back and forth is what a lot in the community are looking for! Idea, counterpoint, reply, etc, it may not be pretty for you and the devs with all the frustration, but I've seen too many good ideas around to believe it wouldn't be extremely productive
kidding??? no!!! not at all!! im just trying to help EA increase revenue stream to ensure the game is around for years to come. and im rich. very very rich. and my plantation has a nice big beautiful wall all around it. so cost is no issue.
FYI: 6% of my T7 guild (3 players) quit today over this problem. I'm guessing this is playing out in guilds all across our community. These weren't just any old players either. They were players/people who had been with us from day one of the Guild launch that have participated in 40 raids. One of which was a consistent top 3 damage dealer. So these weren't just game breaking changes the past couple of days. They were community killing changes. As a guild leader I implore you to do something to compensate us and stem the tide of good people that are leaving this once great community.
Give us back the JUNE 15th GW update to at least placate the masses. That would go a long way to show the player base some good faith.
@EA_Jesse: I appreciate that you are all working hard to fix the plethora of problems. I have enjoyed the game up to this point and will continue to wait patiently while it gets reworked. Some issues that my guild has brought to my attention are: messed up chat, messed up guild coin/currency totals, unrealistic GW teams to the point that even my massive team can't complete the table, and lack of mods in battle rewards. I am sure these are all being looked at but if not, please do.
@EA_Jesse There was a thread prior when you announced mods that players had concerns. This was ignored and it was released anyway. Now you are in reactive mode trying to fix a disaster. Would it not have been better to delay the release until these were reviewed? Would have been cheaper ?. Agile development which most S/W companies use implement small changes so that problems can be fixed and then incrementally add bigger ones.
It would have been more valid to release a small subset of mods ie health only see how that went for a few weeks. That would have lead to just one stat being ruined and given the community a chance to feedback.
What can you do to instill confidence in your userbase ?
I know free stuff won't cut it but constant 12hrly updates on what's happening might.
If devs are reading our concerns. For the love of God, can we please have detonators reworked? Tenacity up rendering Jawa engineer useless for 2-3 turns is silly. The low damage for the amount of prime they take is silly. Overall they are just plain bad. Everyone knows they're bad but devs never comment about their situation, even though more detonator using characters have arrived. @EA_Jesse
Why do the devs think they can just apply a fix to the game and think it'll resolve the problem? The damage is done. We have squads modded to uber status level.
You will need to undo these teams. To do that you need to undo everyone's mods. To do that you'll need to roll back the mods. Why don't you get this?
@EA_Jesse - pretty brave coming on here and I applaud that.
Imho mods have opened the game up for a variety of new people and teams. I'm not guaranteed of placing 1st in arena ATM which is a shock for me....but I really like the variety that is being introduced by this update.
If there is enough outrage that the community manager has to actually post and ask people to be nicer then you've gotten to a point you just need to delete what you did. Trying to fix this with a balance will NOT fix anything. You need to say "Our bad. We thought this would be awesome but it went sideways on us. We'll revert back and Jedi Mindtrick Mods out of our memories forever."
I haven't read all the other 11 pages of posts so forgive me if I'm just repeating the obvious but
WOW. Did EAJesse just scold the userbase for their reaction to this travesty? We can say this, but not that while we try desperately to tell you how to save your own game?
eajesse, you don't even deserve your name capitalized, do you realize that we are the customer? If I'm paying you money for a service and I'm not satisfied, don't you dare tell me how to express my disappointment. I respected the way you handled things before this update but this... WOW.
@EA_Jesse you guys should seriously consider standing up a beta server of non-employee volunteers from the playerbase. Let them test all new major changes for a week and give you feedback. Lots of games do this and it would fix so many of the problems that seem to accompany every major update.
@EA_Jesse you guys should seriously consider standing up a beta server of non-employee volunteers from the playerbase. Let them test all new major changes for a week and give you feedback. Lots of games do this and it would fix so many of the problems that seem to accompany every major update.
I'm thinking about having a break from all this crepe. Everything you work hard to achieve has been made worthless.
Worked my balls off to get Teebo up to where he was and now with a couple of mods he's super ceded. Arena a couple of months ago I managed 1st place. I'm ranked 62 now and can't win a battle.
GW has been turned into a crock of toads. My team of lvl 80's with full gear n mods got pretty well smashed by a team of 60 somethings.
They've just taken all the fun out and I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything worthwhile.
Which I did used to do.
If you want me to leave the guild I'd totally understand.
Pretty much ALL of this would have been avoided if you guys had an actual quality assurance team. You absolutely cannot tell me with a straight face that you have such a team and they tested these 2 last patches. If you do - they should immediately all be fired.
You have a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE community that is willing to give you feedback FOR FREE. Seriously, the amount of people who'd test this game a) for the fun of it, or b) to help make the game better for themselves, c) whatever else is huge. If you have SWGOH, and SWGOH Beta and push things to beta for a week and LISTEN to feedback, before you push it to SWGOH live - you'd be in such a better shape.
I'm in a top ranked guild - we've had over the last 2 days about a quarter of the players leave. Those are whales and dolphins who won't be spending any more.
What's broken:
1. (by a huge margin) GW. Oh my god, GW. You can't tell me you've tested this for more than 5 minutes with actual real world, middle of the road characters. No way. Nobody plays a game and gears up characters thinking "boy oh boy, I hope this gets SO much harder after I've done this work". You can't complete GW without being modded up the wazoo.
2. Lack of credits. Piggy backing on the above - GW is pretty much the only way to make any credits in this game. You need credits to gear up mods (about 1.5 million credits are needed now to get a 6 mod up to lvl 15). You absolutely need mods to beat GW. You can't get credits because you can't beat GW. See a problem with this? My 5 year old nephew can. Let's not embarrass ourselves.
3. Insane ... INSANE power of mods. Don't get me wrong I giggle when my maxed our Rey wipes out a fully heared 7* Gear 11 character that has no mods with a single hit from her BASIC attack. However this is SO broken it's not even funny.
4. INSANE cost to upgrade mods. 1.5 million credits for one 6 mod. Times 6 slots. That's 9 million credits for one character. You need at least 10 characters modded to even stand a chance to do anything. That's 90 million credits. IF (a giant IF) you beat GW that's 500K credits. So it would take 180 days of beating GW every single day (AND NOT spending on anytihng else) to get to that point. Again anyone done math on this?
5. Mods costing cantina. That's just .. I don't know who thought that was a good idea. One of two things needs to happen - Mods use a different energy, or Cantina fills up at least 3 times faster than current rate.
6. So many other things! Secret nerfs, precrafting 2.0, not testing anything before it's released, etc. etc.
Uh, in one of the updates from this last week they said they had the mods beta tested and that the testers actually didn't really like it, but they realeased it anyways.
Pretty much ALL of this would have been avoided if you guys had an actual quality assurance team. You absolutely cannot tell me with a straight face that you have such a team and they tested these 2 last patches. If you do - they should immediately all be fired.
You have a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE community that is willing to give you feedback FOR FREE. Seriously, the amount of people who'd test this game a) for the fun of it, or b) to help make the game better for themselves, c) whatever else is huge. If you have SWGOH, and SWGOH Beta and push things to beta for a week and LISTEN to feedback, before you push it to SWGOH live - you'd be in such a better shape.
I'm in a top ranked guild - we've had over the last 2 days about a quarter of the players leave. Those are whales and dolphins who won't be spending any more.
What's broken:
1. (by a huge margin) GW. Oh my god, GW. You can't tell me you've tested this for more than 5 minutes with actual real world, middle of the road characters. No way. Nobody plays a game and gears up characters thinking "boy oh boy, I hope this gets SO much harder after I've done this work". You can't complete GW without being modded up the wazoo.
2. Lack of credits. Piggy backing on the above - GW is pretty much the only way to make any credits in this game. You need credits to gear up mods (about 1.5 million credits are needed now to get a 6 mod up to lvl 15). You absolutely need mods to beat GW. You can't get credits because you can't beat GW. See a problem with this? My 5 year old nephew can. Let's not embarrass ourselves.
3. Insane ... INSANE power of mods. Don't get me wrong I giggle when my maxed our Rey wipes out a fully heared 7* Gear 11 character that has no mods with a single hit from her BASIC attack. However this is SO broken it's not even funny.
4. INSANE cost to upgrade mods. 1.5 million credits for one 6 mod. Times 6 slots. That's 9 million credits for one character. You need at least 10 characters modded to even stand a chance to do anything. That's 90 million credits. IF (a giant IF) you beat GW that's 500K credits. So it would take 180 days of beating GW every single day (AND NOT spending on anytihng else) to get to that point. Again anyone done math on this?
5. Mods costing cantina. That's just .. I don't know who thought that was a good idea. One of two things needs to happen - Mods use a different energy, or Cantina fills up at least 3 times faster than current rate.
6. So many other things! Secret nerfs, precrafting 2.0, not testing anything before it's released, etc. etc.
Uh, in one of the updates from this last week they said they had the mods beta tested and that the testers actually didn't really like it, but they realeased it anyways.
@EA_Jesse I understand you're in a tough position and I appreciate your efforts. Here is my feedback:
1. Credits are a big issue, especially for F2P or moderate P2P. Everything takes credits: leveling up a toon, promoting a toon, gearing up a toon, upgrading a toon's attacks & abilities, and now mods. The best place to get a good amount of credits without paying crystals? Galactic wars. Which, as we all know, has been a point of contention for some time now. I'm sure F2P players are under the full realization that they will never be even with the whales in terms of squad depth, owning premium toons first, etc., but it's very disheartening when it feels like you can't even somewhat keep up. I see that GW will be offering more rewards. I hope this will allay some of the feelings of hopelessness.
2. The Nightsisters are sorely ignored. People who have committed to developing the Nightsisters and haven't lost hope are getting a raw deal. Look at the mod challenges. Jedi, Jawas, Scoundrels, Rebels, First Order, Empire, and Resistance. OK, yes, droids, clones, ewoks, and Sith aren't there either, but there have been challenges (or raids) where you needed those types of toons. There seems to be no benefit or reward for developing the Nightsisters, even if it's just to use them in a special event. I think anyone who develops a squad of the same ilk (e.g. Jedi, Sith, ewoks) should have some sort of advantage over a more disparate squad makeup. It just doesn't seem that way right now.
3. Credits now aren't the only thing that has to be stretched thin. Now people have to decide between obtaining character shards in Cantina or using the energy for mods. Between the credit crunch, the mods, and the Cantina energy situation, I feel like this is going to deter people from attempting to acquire new toons. Maybe ones they'd really like to have. Maybe it's one of their favorite characters, like Commander Cody. I'm afraid players are going to say, "Well, I'm stuck with the toons I got. I'd really like Lando, but I'll get creamed in arena and GW if I don't max out who I currently have immediately. I can't divert my credits and cantina energy to Lando."
Replies
This is my issue entirely. Mismanagement of client expectations. You start with something and the cut it back after people are used to it. That just makes people angry. Other miss steps that could be avoided in the future are below.
There have been a lot of well thought out post regarding all of the basic business mistakes and things you can do to fix these issues. I really hope you guys can pull a genie out of a bottle to fix this. But sadly, I think it was Pandoras Box you opened.
That's sort of my point, by further capping the number of battles per day (as gear challenges are capped) then uncapping slowly, it would give f2p more time to make the adjustment while keeping whales from maxing out every character overnight, at least to start.
I would also hope they improve cantina refresh and add cantina energy to go with the regular energy allotments.
And @EA_Jesse I really believe this kind of back and forth is what a lot in the community are looking for! Idea, counterpoint, reply, etc, it may not be pretty for you and the devs with all the frustration, but I've seen too many good ideas around to believe it wouldn't be extremely productive
kidding??? no!!! not at all!! im just trying to help EA increase revenue stream to ensure the game is around for years to come. and im rich. very very rich. and my plantation has a nice big beautiful wall all around it. so cost is no issue.
Give us back the JUNE 15th GW update to at least placate the masses. That would go a long way to show the player base some good faith.
Thanks.
potty mouthed pitiful fool. go buy some crystals and feel better.
It would have been more valid to release a small subset of mods ie health only see how that went for a few weeks. That would have lead to just one stat being ruined and given the community a chance to feedback.
What can you do to instill confidence in your userbase ?
I know free stuff won't cut it but constant 12hrly updates on what's happening might.
You will need to undo these teams. To do that you need to undo everyone's mods. To do that you'll need to roll back the mods. Why don't you get this?
Imho mods have opened the game up for a variety of new people and teams. I'm not guaranteed of placing 1st in arena ATM which is a shock for me....but I really like the variety that is being introduced by this update.
Good luck
If there is enough outrage that the community manager has to actually post and ask people to be nicer then you've gotten to a point you just need to delete what you did. Trying to fix this with a balance will NOT fix anything. You need to say "Our bad. We thought this would be awesome but it went sideways on us. We'll revert back and Jedi Mindtrick Mods out of our memories forever."
But, but, free Chewie shards!!
We shouldn't have that around here. It makes our STGOH Community look bad and lose credibility.
WOW. Did EAJesse just scold the userbase for their reaction to this travesty? We can say this, but not that while we try desperately to tell you how to save your own game?
eajesse, you don't even deserve your name capitalized, do you realize that we are the customer? If I'm paying you money for a service and I'm not satisfied, don't you dare tell me how to express my disappointment. I respected the way you handled things before this update but this... WOW.
EA_Jesse can you pls reply?
Perfect!
Back at E3, you guys showcased R2 - is he ever actually going to make the game or was that just marketing?
Why so slow to introduce characters?
We've got enough Geonosians...and Tusken...and Night Sisters...
How about a new iconic character or two for the fans to actually play with, not just aspirational heroes like scoundrel Han Solo.
Best idea I have seen so far!
Worked my balls off to get Teebo up to where he was and now with a couple of mods he's super ceded. Arena a couple of months ago I managed 1st place. I'm ranked 62 now and can't win a battle.
GW has been turned into a crock of toads. My team of lvl 80's with full gear n mods got pretty well smashed by a team of 60 somethings.
They've just taken all the fun out and I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything worthwhile.
Which I did used to do.
If you want me to leave the guild I'd totally understand.
You have a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE community that is willing to give you feedback FOR FREE. Seriously, the amount of people who'd test this game a) for the fun of it, or b) to help make the game better for themselves, c) whatever else is huge. If you have SWGOH, and SWGOH Beta and push things to beta for a week and LISTEN to feedback, before you push it to SWGOH live - you'd be in such a better shape.
I'm in a top ranked guild - we've had over the last 2 days about a quarter of the players leave. Those are whales and dolphins who won't be spending any more.
What's broken:
1. (by a huge margin) GW. Oh my god, GW. You can't tell me you've tested this for more than 5 minutes with actual real world, middle of the road characters. No way. Nobody plays a game and gears up characters thinking "boy oh boy, I hope this gets SO much harder after I've done this work". You can't complete GW without being modded up the wazoo.
2. Lack of credits. Piggy backing on the above - GW is pretty much the only way to make any credits in this game. You need credits to gear up mods (about 1.5 million credits are needed now to get a 6 mod up to lvl 15). You absolutely need mods to beat GW. You can't get credits because you can't beat GW. See a problem with this? My 5 year old nephew can. Let's not embarrass ourselves.
3. Insane ... INSANE power of mods. Don't get me wrong I giggle when my maxed our Rey wipes out a fully heared 7* Gear 11 character that has no mods with a single hit from her BASIC attack. However this is SO broken it's not even funny.
4. INSANE cost to upgrade mods. 1.5 million credits for one 6 mod. Times 6 slots. That's 9 million credits for one character. You need at least 10 characters modded to even stand a chance to do anything. That's 90 million credits. IF (a giant IF) you beat GW that's 500K credits. So it would take 180 days of beating GW every single day (AND NOT spending on anytihng else) to get to that point. Again anyone done math on this?
5. Mods costing cantina. That's just .. I don't know who thought that was a good idea. One of two things needs to happen - Mods use a different energy, or Cantina fills up at least 3 times faster than current rate.
6. So many other things! Secret nerfs, precrafting 2.0, not testing anything before it's released, etc. etc.
Amen brother!
Something isn't right.
1. Credits are a big issue, especially for F2P or moderate P2P. Everything takes credits: leveling up a toon, promoting a toon, gearing up a toon, upgrading a toon's attacks & abilities, and now mods. The best place to get a good amount of credits without paying crystals? Galactic wars. Which, as we all know, has been a point of contention for some time now. I'm sure F2P players are under the full realization that they will never be even with the whales in terms of squad depth, owning premium toons first, etc., but it's very disheartening when it feels like you can't even somewhat keep up. I see that GW will be offering more rewards. I hope this will allay some of the feelings of hopelessness.
2. The Nightsisters are sorely ignored. People who have committed to developing the Nightsisters and haven't lost hope are getting a raw deal. Look at the mod challenges. Jedi, Jawas, Scoundrels, Rebels, First Order, Empire, and Resistance. OK, yes, droids, clones, ewoks, and Sith aren't there either, but there have been challenges (or raids) where you needed those types of toons. There seems to be no benefit or reward for developing the Nightsisters, even if it's just to use them in a special event. I think anyone who develops a squad of the same ilk (e.g. Jedi, Sith, ewoks) should have some sort of advantage over a more disparate squad makeup. It just doesn't seem that way right now.
3. Credits now aren't the only thing that has to be stretched thin. Now people have to decide between obtaining character shards in Cantina or using the energy for mods. Between the credit crunch, the mods, and the Cantina energy situation, I feel like this is going to deter people from attempting to acquire new toons. Maybe ones they'd really like to have. Maybe it's one of their favorite characters, like Commander Cody. I'm afraid players are going to say, "Well, I'm stuck with the toons I got. I'd really like Lando, but I'll get creamed in arena and GW if I don't max out who I currently have immediately. I can't divert my credits and cantina energy to Lando."