I find it mildly amusing that there are two clear lines of thought :
1) If they nerf JTRey (which really means expose, not just her), Ima be mad!
2) If they don't nerf JTRey, so other raid teams are viable too, Ima be mad!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say some of the players are going to mad next week.
The silly thing is it doesn't even make the other teams that much more viable. Not unless the sith raid health is reduced massively and if they do that then it nerfs deathmark as well. Making troopers less viable...
i agree it just puts the raid farther out of reach and in the process screws up the other raids.
How about better rewards? My guild can clear normal AAT faster than tier II Sith, so why are the rewards so cheap? When you can shred heroic Rancor, you shouldn’t be having trouble beating the kind of raid that gives blue gear.
I can't wait for the supermarket to come into my house and replace my fresh bought steak with some ground beef. They can tell me "it's still beef that you paid for and lets wait and see how this turns out" and then shop there again tomorrow to show them how upsetting such **** is.
it is messed up, but that did make me laugh. i went to buy a car and saw the ad for 2.99% interest rate; went to the dealership and it was a 1 year finance; i guess it was what was advertised.
Many insightful posts contained in this thread that maybe, just maaaaaaaybe will be listened to, rather than just heard.
I don't know about that, all the posts from CG seem pretty adamant that Expose is being nerfed regardless of what we think. But maybe they'll consider improving rewards, reducing the stacking tenacity, reducing the health pool more than "slightly", and other good points brought up here.
yep, they are just laughing while they have a beer and read these posts.
Hmm... Thermal detonators... Scoundrels... Han Solo movie in may...
You know it's funny but Mobile Gamer just put up a video about this whole thing with AhnaldT101. Near the end Ahnald suggests maybe there is a toon a few months out that will be designed as a big hitter for this raid.
Now, I am not all suggesting that maybe he knows something, but what I find funny is the suggestion because it's been made many, many times throughout this thread.
IMO, for it to be so widely speculated (albeit lightly) means that that sort of thing is somewhat expected by these developers because it's the kind of thing they do. Breaking things and tweaking things simply to create a vacuum that's there for them to come along and offer something to fill the space.
If, IF, that happens, well, they ought to be ashamed.
Ahnald did a video in January where the devs confirmed that Revan as not coming now. Future raid buster toon, Revan, heroic only requires Treya, which no one has except Team Instinct. They rule the raid and all arena shards while the rest of us struggle to clear tier 5.
I don’t understand how CG expects us to be excited about new characters if we can’t use them the way they are designed. Why should I invest money in Sion or Visas? I’m better off waiting for them to be farmed as f2p.
I was excited to get JTR the next time she comes around but now she’s pretty much useless to me as her primary use was to be a damage dealer in raid.
Ultimately, what I'm the most worried about is the effect of reducing the effectiveness of exposes on the popular zFinn led Resistance teams and the consequences on the Haat raid for guilds that barely beat it.
Yep and the devs just seem to skirt the issue about how many guilds rely on zFinn do clear HAAT and how much this will set back so many.
I get that they want to make it more of a community raid, then the soloing of Rancor and that a couple can clear and help others with the HAAT, but if you are a high GP 2M and your guild stretches out to lower players, 80K, making a GP total of around 60-70M. Should the Higher players ditch their guilds to find higher ones, just to complete this raid, leaving the former teammates behind. Doesn't seem like that is health for guilds, and creating a class system?? Is that what the developers what to happen???
this is totally going to happen, those with JTR are going to be heavily recruited.
I'm pretty ****, I dropped $250-$300 on Darth Sion. He's horrible in the new raid along with the rest of the sith and is about to get worse next week.
The raid is what needs fixing, not the toons
I wasn't even all that mad about the changes until I came here and read all the official CG/EA public relations doublespeak nonsense, which of course never truly addresses any question or concern, but only dances around the point while repeating the same thing with different words each time.
Listened to a YouTuber and basically with the nerfs still will make JtR the only viable squad for heroic. Sure other squads can for much less dmg but heroic will never get beaten unless our guild has a lot of JtR sqauds. Personally that doesn’t sit to well with me bc I don’t want JtR and don’t want to feel forced to get her.
Team Instinct needed 46 JTR teams (at least what i heard) to clear P1/P2, so 23 per phase. Now because they did it they are stifling creativity, yet the devs give the rest of us no option!
It is still not wrong that creativity and diversity is being stifled. In a hypothetical scenario of let's say a guild with 50 test accounts and unlimited resources and perfect mods, but without a single RJT lead zeta, that guild is not going to finish the raid.
Prize balance between Pit-Hpit , AAT -HAAT is allright. Ballance between Heroic Sith and T6 sith raid is awful ... just awful. This needs to be addressed if you want people playing it. Frustration, time investment and coordination to complete the raid is huge... and players just don't feel rewarded upon completion of T6. I think fully crafted G12 pieces and Traya shards are great rewards for Heroic raid... Give T6 boost in prizes at least in salvage numbers.
And please... pretty please remove all gear that we have in thousands from challenges as possible rewards in the new raid as this is another source of frustration player base has to deal with. Thank you .
Stop with the party line nonsense please. You have a massive amount of players displeased and you address none of it? From the expose "fix" to TW matchmaking and a myriad of things in between... it simply isn't enough to say that you "acknowledge" us. Fix the issues. Test your content before releasing it. It's not a tough business model. It goes back to basic sales: would you rather sell one car? Or five cars over the next ten years? You can make a quick profit (Which I suspect is the plan), or you can encourage a loyal player base.
Teams that can perform infinite loops within the first week of release fall within this category of “undermining the design spirit”. We consider each incident of this nature individually to determine whether corrective actions are warranted. While we do have several processes in place to prevent these interactions from making it into the live game, they unfortunately can still happen..
I still don‘t get why no one is talking about this... am I the only one seeing what‘s happening there?
Underlined parts belong together, fat text is CG‘s answer...
I fully agree that the Teams able to do so are undermining the spirit of the raid! Don‘t get me wrong...
But ask yourself WHY they can do that:
"[mistakes on CG‘s part] unfortunately can still happen.." so, please tell me how it is the players fault if they use only what YOU have given them?
Yet, you say those actions might warrant "corrective actions"?!?
Simplified example:
I buy a car that‘s fresh from your factory and find out it also runs on water as fuel... no gas needed.
Next thing I know, you are standing in front of my house with a lawyer telling me, that the car is not running as you intended and you going to sue me...
That‘s exactly what happened here, just with a big, fat sign: "refill your car with water!" Right next to the car I bought....
(Car is obviously the raid and water being ST Han...)
can I just ask, a couple of the game changers stated in one of their videos that for the sith raid and for raids going forward - if someone “zero hits” the raid they won’t get rewards from it.
Would you be able to confirm if this is correct or not please?
Please remove the useless challenge gear that most of us have 3000+, as reward on the sith raid. It's like you are making fun of your players.
Thanks.
I made the same observation long ago but at that time it was about challenge gear as reward on haat and in TB.
I'm disappointed you never changed it on haat and TB and that you didn't learn from past mistakes.
If the idea is to put more fire into players' anger, then you succeeded.
Please remove the useless challenge gear that most of us have 3000+, as reward on the sith raid. It's like you are making fun of your players.
Thanks.
I made the same observation long ago but at that time it was about challenge gear as reward on haat and in TB.
I'm disappointed you never changed it on haat and TB and that you didn't learn from past mistakes.
If the idea is to put more fire into players' anger, then you succeeded.
It really is disappointing. It's like they have no idea how progression works in their own game.
@CG_RyDiggs, I would like to take advantage of this thread to ask not about the raid sith or the expose, but about the arena teams.
I agree with this sentence "With each new Raid, our goals are to bring a new level of challenge to the game and to provide innovative gameplay which encourages strategic thinking and “outside the meta” play", and about the gameplay in the arena?
Is there a chance that Rex's tenacity up can be revised?
You have introduced a new character, very difficult to unlock immediately, like jedi training Rey, and any Rex leader can win against her
Rework of Palpatine and Vader, and yet Rex with his tenacity up is enough to win.
I do not understand the sense of introducing new characters, promoted to 7 * G12 only by paying, and with two or three zeta abilities available, if just a simple OMEGAD leader is enough to beat them.
I think it's a matter of respect for those who spent money in this game (a small amount fortunately in my case)
Is rex leader ability even an omega? It's tier 7 so there could be a zeta in the future and a unique would be awesome.
Rex, wampa, DN, thrawn and GK is a nice team.
You are right. My mistake. Rex's leader ability is not omegad, but only at level 7.
So even worse: a further demonstration that for developers of this game only the tenacity up matters.
And they go to nerf the expose.
Shameful
I went to a restaurant yesterday and ordered steak. The waiter came back with a chicken patty. I asked him what is going on and he said it is in their policy to change their customer's meal as they want them to be more engaged in their menu and I have been eating the same steak for years. They charged me for a steak, gave me the chicken patty and told me that if I still want a steak, I have to buy their new and shiny one in the menu which they promise me will keep me coming back in their place....I was so happy that they think about me....
There is no way CG launched the sith raid without understanding the expose mechanics. All they would have needed to do is test the raid a few times with JTR to understand this. And given that JTR is one of the most popular teams for HAAT, it’s preposterous to claim CG wasn’t aware. So as the game changers have pointed out, the sith raid wasn’t anywhere near ready for release. How could CG release the raid knowing that they were going to change the expose mechanics. This just seems very manipulative of them. We get something on release, the community pulls together to theory craft, and then they immeadiately backpeddle and take away what we had. As the game changers have already said, change the STHan mechanics, most of us agree that what broken. There is no reasonable justification that CG has provided on changing the expose mechanics. The only justification that we are left to guess at because of the less than forthcoming answers from CG, is that they have P2P toons made for the raid which JTR is threatening. I’ve farmed the vets for months now, with the hope of using JTR in HAAT and now more recently the Sith Raid. It feels like you are about to pull the rug out from under us, which hardly seems fair for a community that is as dedicated as we are to this game.
Listened to a YouTuber and basically with the nerfs still will make JtR the only viable squad for heroic. Sure other squads can for much less dmg but heroic will never get beaten unless our guild has a lot of JtR sqauds. Personally that doesn’t sit to well with me bc I don’t want JtR and don’t want to feel forced to get her.
Team Instinct needed 46 JTR teams (at least what i heard) to clear P1/P2, so 23 per phase. Now because they did it they are stifling creativity, yet the devs give the rest of us no option!
But, like, did you notice they said they're re-evaluating the health pools?
I get what you're saying, to be clear. You're saying that Team Instinct was only able to do it because they used 46 Jedi Reys to get through the first two phases, and from that you're extrapolating that changing how Expose works in this raid will mean we're all screwed.
But we can't really judge anything until we know how much the health of those phases will be adjusted. It seems, to me, that the intent of the change is to make it so that Exposes aren't the only viable option any more. If they simply lowered the health, then Expose would still be the most viable option--sure, other teams could scratch Nihilus' paint, but you're still only going to use Jedi Rey. By lowering the amount of health AND lowering the efficacy of Expose, you're making other teams viable AND reducing the necessity of the one power team.
As I said, that seems to be the intent. Whether or not that's how it shakes out remains to be seen. But your comment only addresses one facet of the whole announcement, which is wrongheaded.
The problem with waiting and seeing, is that's it is default acceptance. They will most likely claim "What's done cannot be undone." Complete and utter disregard for what paying customers have been trying to tell them.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
Ofcourse lowering the health makes it easier. Your damage goes down, but the percentage of damage an expose does remains unaffected by a health reduction.
I'd rather have my exposes do 10k dmg than 20k dmg because that means the boss has half the health. So while the damage an expose does might be lowered twice, it being lower due to the raidboss having lower health is definately NOT a nerf.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
Ofcourse lowering the health makes it easier. Your damage goes down, but the percentage of damage an expose does remains unaffected by a health reduction.
I'd rather have my exposes do 10k dmg than 20k dmg because that means the boss has half the health. So while the damage an expose does might be lowered twice, it being lower due to the raidboss having lower health is definately NOT a nerf.
Its the same as working 8 hrs for $10/hr or 7 hrs for $8/hr. Lowering both doesn't make it better.
What’s the cg philosophy behind special events and raids giving gear that is in challenges? It devalues the events so much. Taking top 3 in heroic raid and getting challenge gear rewards I have thousands of is deflating.
Replies
Do you really think they will listen to us this time? I really doubt that. The only thing they‘re interested in is money.
So, I‘m not saying you should stop playing, but PLEASE stop paying. Maybe then they will listen to us!?
i agree it just puts the raid farther out of reach and in the process screws up the other raids.
i wish, i just hope for a couple hundred thousand these days.
it is messed up, but that did make me laugh. i went to buy a car and saw the ad for 2.99% interest rate; went to the dealership and it was a 1 year finance; i guess it was what was advertised.
yep, they are just laughing while they have a beer and read these posts.
welcome to the party...the sad sad party where your time and money were wasted.
Ahnald did a video in January where the devs confirmed that Revan as not coming now. Future raid buster toon, Revan, heroic only requires Treya, which no one has except Team Instinct. They rule the raid and all arena shards while the rest of us struggle to clear tier 5.
Yep and the devs just seem to skirt the issue about how many guilds rely on zFinn do clear HAAT and how much this will set back so many.
this is totally going to happen, those with JTR are going to be heavily recruited.
The raid is what needs fixing, not the toons
It is still not wrong that creativity and diversity is being stifled. In a hypothetical scenario of let's say a guild with 50 test accounts and unlimited resources and perfect mods, but without a single RJT lead zeta, that guild is not going to finish the raid.
Prize balance between Pit-Hpit , AAT -HAAT is allright. Ballance between Heroic Sith and T6 sith raid is awful ... just awful. This needs to be addressed if you want people playing it. Frustration, time investment and coordination to complete the raid is huge... and players just don't feel rewarded upon completion of T6. I think fully crafted G12 pieces and Traya shards are great rewards for Heroic raid... Give T6 boost in prizes at least in salvage numbers.
And please... pretty please remove all gear that we have in thousands from challenges as possible rewards in the new raid as this is another source of frustration player base has to deal with. Thank you .
Amen, brother.
I still don‘t get why no one is talking about this... am I the only one seeing what‘s happening there?
Underlined parts belong together, fat text is CG‘s answer...
I fully agree that the Teams able to do so are undermining the spirit of the raid! Don‘t get me wrong...
But ask yourself WHY they can do that:
"[mistakes on CG‘s part] unfortunately can still happen.." so, please tell me how it is the players fault if they use only what YOU have given them?
Yet, you say those actions might warrant "corrective actions"?!?
Simplified example:
I buy a car that‘s fresh from your factory and find out it also runs on water as fuel... no gas needed.
Next thing I know, you are standing in front of my house with a lawyer telling me, that the car is not running as you intended and you going to sue me...
That‘s exactly what happened here, just with a big, fat sign: "refill your car with water!" Right next to the car I bought....
(Car is obviously the raid and water being ST Han...)
can I just ask, a couple of the game changers stated in one of their videos that for the sith raid and for raids going forward - if someone “zero hits” the raid they won’t get rewards from it.
Would you be able to confirm if this is correct or not please?
Thank you
Thanks.
I made the same observation long ago but at that time it was about challenge gear as reward on haat and in TB.
I'm disappointed you never changed it on haat and TB and that you didn't learn from past mistakes.
If the idea is to put more fire into players' anger, then you succeeded.
It really is disappointing. It's like they have no idea how progression works in their own game.
You are right. My mistake. Rex's leader ability is not omegad, but only at level 7.
So even worse: a further demonstration that for developers of this game only the tenacity up matters.
And they go to nerf the expose.
Shameful
But, like, did you notice they said they're re-evaluating the health pools?
I get what you're saying, to be clear. You're saying that Team Instinct was only able to do it because they used 46 Jedi Reys to get through the first two phases, and from that you're extrapolating that changing how Expose works in this raid will mean we're all screwed.
But we can't really judge anything until we know how much the health of those phases will be adjusted. It seems, to me, that the intent of the change is to make it so that Exposes aren't the only viable option any more. If they simply lowered the health, then Expose would still be the most viable option--sure, other teams could scratch Nihilus' paint, but you're still only going to use Jedi Rey. By lowering the amount of health AND lowering the efficacy of Expose, you're making other teams viable AND reducing the necessity of the one power team.
As I said, that seems to be the intent. Whether or not that's how it shakes out remains to be seen. But your comment only addresses one facet of the whole announcement, which is wrongheaded.
If the raid has, for the sake of arguement, 100 hit points- Expose let's say does 20% damage. Thats 20 damage. If they reduce the overall health to say, 90, now expose does 18 damage. Ok, not too bad. BUT if they reduce expose as well, to say, 15%, now it does 13.5. Double nerf. So, no, it doesn't make it easier.
People with better math than I, please correct me. Numbers and I don't get allong so well.
Ofcourse lowering the health makes it easier. Your damage goes down, but the percentage of damage an expose does remains unaffected by a health reduction.
I'd rather have my exposes do 10k dmg than 20k dmg because that means the boss has half the health. So while the damage an expose does might be lowered twice, it being lower due to the raidboss having lower health is definately NOT a nerf.
Its the same as working 8 hrs for $10/hr or 7 hrs for $8/hr. Lowering both doesn't make it better.