I doubt it. I mean if they had a character set to male him better they'd of released it by now for sure, they could of avoided all the posts and false SEE feedback if that was the case. Also they're all working on Mando characters now, it wouldn't make any sense.
Plus why would we buy a new character now just for SEE at this point, after finding out how weak he is an after they made us farm all these horrible dead end characters to unlock him.
Surely that is the opposite of a PR an business strategy. Correct me if im wrong but they usually want to make money by making you unlock the character first so you dont know how good or bad it is, not lose money putting the character out after the bad reviews. That's like trying to put out a garbage fire with, well, more potential garbage :')
I just truly believe they overlooked a lot of things or barely tested it at all an that he just simply to put it, needs a big buff.
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Just so I am clear, you aren’t saying that the lack of videos posted on this forum is a reason for them to not have a very good idea how he is doing. The fact that he does 30k crits with a crit damage set on dark side enemies when he hits his ultimate is surely something they know from actual player data (not videos for Pete’s sake). I am sure there are thousands upon thousands of data points they can glean from their own databases by now.
You know what else really sucks, getting to ultimate, not doing enough damage or even being killed in the time between activating his ultimate and the ability to actually attack. And 20 turn cool down for an ability that does less damage than Rey’s ultimate or kylo’s aoe (that he does multiple times per battle. You can realistically only use the move once in a pvp environment, it should be much lower cooldown. Maybe reduce the cooldown by 3 for every enemy you kill or something.
I'm saying they have said they are keep9ng an eye on things, and one of the best ways to help highlight what you and other have said, is not just starting hes junk, but yes posting videos and pictures and discussing points.
I can assure you that things will definitely progress slower than I'm sure some would like, when there is not a lot of things like that floating around.
We saw a few videos of counters, but not all of the counters claimed.
There is talk about his power, but not alot of posts showing how modding is not helping this, which it could.
I'm saying that there was a burst of stuff, they said they are looking and some have made great points about what is going on, and anything other than repeating he is junk is all we are seeing. It would be nice to see more supporting material behind that. That is what helps those that champion these causes put some weight behind it.
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Just so I am clear, you aren’t saying that the lack of videos posted on this forum is a reason for them to not have a very good idea how he is doing. The fact that he does 30k crits with a crit damage set on dark side enemies when he hits his ultimate is surely something they know from actual player data (not videos for Pete’s sake). I am sure there are thousands upon thousands of data points they can glean from their own databases by now.
You know what else really sucks, getting to ultimate, not doing enough damage or even being killed in the time between activating his ultimate and the ability to actually attack. And 20 turn cool down for an ability that does less damage than Rey’s ultimate or kylo’s aoe (that he does multiple times per battle. You can realistically only use the move once in a pvp environment, it should be much lower cooldown. Maybe reduce the cooldown by 3 for every enemy you kill or something.
I'm saying they have said they are keep9ng an eye on things, and one of the best ways to help highlight what you and other have said, is not just starting hes junk, but yes posting videos and pictures and discussing points.
I can assure you that things will definitely progress slower than I'm sure some would like, when there is not a lot of things like that floating around.
We saw a few videos of counters, but not all of the counters claimed.
There is talk about his power, but not alot of posts showing how modding is not helping this, which it could.
I'm saying that there was a burst of stuff, they said they are looking and some have made great points about what is going on, and anything other than repeating he is junk is all we are seeing. It would be nice to see more supporting material behind that. That is what helps those that champion these causes put some weight behind it.
To add to your explanation, while players tend to enjoy when their toons are buffed, they less enjoy when they're nerfed to say the least. So when they make the decision to buff a character, they can't buff it too much, because nerfing him afterwards will see the pitchforks out. So they take their sweet time (waiting to see more ultimate see in the Wild and collect a good amount of data) to try and make the rightest call possible.
No way they tested SEE, if so they should be ashamed at releasing him the way he is.
I agree. Reading the kit when it was announced made him seem decent, if not slightly lackluster.. But the kit sounded workable, albeit detrimental to two of the 3 sith tanks, but workable.
And then we got our hands on him and... well... hes kinda underpowered. Deceive sounded useful... but in practice it doesn't do much. There's no detrimental effect to having deceive on a unit. They act like normal.
Link sounded cool... but it doesn't work on protection up and every single character released recently is based on max health so not many people mod for protection anymore. That and enemy ATTACKERS that are linked and have not only less damage but can't crit... still do more damage then a SEE crit fart attack.
Sow Discord should hit the weakest enemy, not limited to LS... cause as it stands it takes forever for SEE to get his ult.
I used my Ultimate SEE against an Ultimate JML and although I got my ult first.. his ult was much more damaging and he almost 1v4ed my team. SEE won, but barely. (and its not a mod issue, I have my best mods on vs a team with half the power of mods. lot of his guys has blue or green mods)
Kyno can ask for proof all he wants. How about the devs actually use those fancy new tools they put a year into making work to check all the SEE accounts and check all the battles. GAC history is easy to see on their side. Why the heck should we have to do THEIR JOB BETA TESTING FOR THEM.... but in the end we did. And ever SEE user / owner I've talked to, or seen, says he's weak. Hes bad.
I threw him into a treya lead team for DS geo... I felt like he was a waste there. He never even got close to his ult. If he was lead then I'd have to worry about Sion actually dieing instead of using HIS CORE CHARACTER MECHANIC... aka his revive.
I have most empire r5-7, all the sith r7 (except savage whos g12 and maul/sassy at r5).
I've tried thrawn and wat with him. Makes him worse against JML teams cause those two become ability blocked dead weight and they don't get many of the "decent" sith benefits that another sith would get.
Sid, sassy, maul... all trash with SEE cause they dont do much.
royal guard really needs a rework. They were feared for being the BEST OF THE BEST... yet ours is complete utter garbage.
I've literally tried everything with SEE lead to make him good... and EP, treya, DV would make better leads then him. I've tried him as an ally... id rather have a mixed Empire/sith EP team with tarkin or the new Piet then him.
No way they tested SEE, if so they should be ashamed at releasing him the way he is.
Kyno can ask for proof all he wants. How about the devs actually use those fancy new tools they put a year into making work to check all the SEE accounts and check all the battles. GAC history is easy to see on their side. Why the heck should we have to do THEIR JOB BETA TESTING FOR THEM.... but in the end we did. And ever SEE user / owner I've talked to, or seen, says he's weak. Hes bad.
I like how you demand that CG drop all progress they’re making on Mandalorian content, Galactic Challenges, anniversary, everything, in order to sort through the code of every battle of every SEE owner; and yet you still refuse to even provide a video or even a screenshot to back up your claims.
I don’t understand the confusion. It should be extremely simple. If someone says “X team beats SEE” instead of waiting for someone to post the video they should have the ability to very quickly put together a could test battles with different mods and see whether that is true/likely/difficult/unlikely/impossible etc
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
I don’t understand the confusion. It should be extremely simple. If someone says “X team beats SEE” instead of waiting for someone to post the video they should have the ability to very quickly put together a could test battles with different mods and see whether that is true/likely/difficult/unlikely/impossible etc
But it’s a lot easier to actually do that when you say “Full Geos beat SEE lead, DR, BSF, Marauder, Sith Empire Trooper” and not “Geos beat SEE. SEE bad.”
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
So....that's pretty weak. SEE on defense with 1 attempt and wont it without SEE going down. The entire circumstance feels like it's missing 90% of the background. Where was the team placed, how did the opponent defend? Did he wall/turtle and left weak teams for Offense? Did the winner have SEE backfielded with good teams up front eating counters? Like yea....ANY team can be good when the circumstances are set.
As someone that is 11/15 SEE right now it's not really motivating to know I might be getting a dumpster. It also doesn't help that it's constantly said my G12 Traya, scion, nihilus will ALSO need to be R7'ed to make the best of him, when I've spent a lot of time and resourced gearing these garbage can characters to get him, and they won't even synergize with him.
So one of two things is going on. Either SEE really is garbage and JML owners are trying to detract from any kind of attention or everyone that is complaining has zero idea what they're talking about, and the vods are all staged shenanagens. Hmmmmm.
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
So....that's pretty weak. SEE on defense with 1 attempt and wont it without SEE going down. The entire circumstance feels like it's missing 90% of the background. Where was the team placed, how did the opponent defend? Did he wall/turtle and left weak teams for Offense? Did the winner have SEE backfielded with good teams up front eating counters? Like yea....ANY team can be good when the circumstances are set.
As someone that is 11/15 SEE right now it's not really motivating to know I might be getting a dumpster. It also doesn't help that it's constantly said my G12 Traya, scion, nihilus will ALSO need to be R7'ed to make the best of him, when I've spent a lot of time and resourced gearing these garbage can characters to get him, and they won't even synergize with him.
So one of two things is going on. Either SEE really is garbage and JML owners are trying to detract from any kind of attention or everyone that is complaining has zero idea what they're talking about, and the vods are all staged shenanagens. Hmmmmm.
I second... essentially all of this. Wanting proof/details goes both ways, and while I’m worried about my eventual SEE unlock being un-buffed, I can’t fathom that he’s actually as bad as he’s portrayed to be.
CG where are you, we want to know your current position on this matter!
@DreamCatcherKylo their current position has not changed from the last statement we received.
This is in part why I have been asking a lot of players who are declaring trash, and too many counters to post pictures and videos for discussion. This is what can help get this information together for them to consider.
The explanation of how SEE functions in every battle--the mechanics they themselves made and will understand--is in my signature. It's not a secret. It's in his kit & mechanics. It's evidenced in basically every battle as long as you don't get distracted by SEE's squad totally carrying him, or SEE's kit applying its niche use against a taunt-lead jedi.
Yes, SEE is good at prot-draining JML since he's a tank that doesn't die easily, and is a jedi so it's a big drain. And JML probably has some weaknesses of his own compared to the existing GLs. But SLKR is a far better "hides behinds tanks and transforms into a beast" character than SEE is (of course, in addition to all the other great things SLKR does at the start of battle and for his squad).
SEE's major flaws:
he doesn't support his squad enough or mitigate meta threats like SLKR enough to survive that long
there are some major issues with link (solo enemy, or forced to link then kill a tank) that can easily prevent him from reaching his ultimate
and he doesn't do enough base damage with his attacks when he hits his ultimate (mastery scaling and multipliers)
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Just so I am clear, you aren’t saying that the lack of videos posted on this forum is a reason for them to not have a very good idea how he is doing. The fact that he does 30k crits with a crit damage set on dark side enemies when he hits his ultimate is surely something they know from actual player data (not videos for Pete’s sake). I am sure there are thousands upon thousands of data points they can glean from their own databases by now.
You know what else really sucks, getting to ultimate, not doing enough damage or even being killed in the time between activating his ultimate and the ability to actually attack. And 20 turn cool down for an ability that does less damage than Rey’s ultimate or kylo’s aoe (that he does multiple times per battle. You can realistically only use the move once in a pvp environment, it should be much lower cooldown. Maybe reduce the cooldown by 3 for every enemy you kill or something.
There is talk about his power, but not alot of posts showing how modding is not helping this, which it could.
Modding will not help much. SEE's mastery is not the best (fine, tactics attacker it is) and his mastery scaling just isn't very good--but what do mastery increases have to do with modding? And SEE's damage multipliers are flat-out bad. If SLKR's basic attacks, for example--even without all his good mastery scaling, multiple sources of CD, guaranteed crits--have triple the multiplier of SEE's post-ultimate basic, then we know that SEE would need levels of offense from modding that don't exist to match SLKR's damage. I assumed, and still assume, that the devs know what they did here, but maybe didn't foresee this result from all of SEE's issues combined. I'm sure they're better at math than I am and understand how ability damage multipliers work, and how SEE's mastery growth works.
Now, most players simply aren't on the forums at all, but if you ask someone like @Shiryu for his modding attempts I'm sure he can provide info. Sure, I always want to see modding of both squads in any tactics video. If what we're really missing here is people not understanding mechanics and needing to see a 14k offense SEE or a 11 offense high-speed SEE losing, then I'm sure we can get some videos showing it doesn't really help (plenty of people have already removed their best offensive mods from SEE since he doesn't put them to great use).
If what we want to see is high protection, or high speed, all of which have been tried by players with good mods and top notch Sith, then maybe that too. But I wouldn't be surprised if SEE players are exhausted from weeks of trying to make SEE good (I don't know if you noticed, but the RNG counter against SLKR that people came up with was EP lead with Vader--hardly a counter relying on SEE or the best Sith counter, rather simply one that includes SEE).
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
So....that's pretty weak. SEE on defense with 1 attempt and wont it without SEE going down. The entire circumstance feels like it's missing 90% of the background. Where was the team placed, how did the opponent defend? Did he wall/turtle and left weak teams for Offense? Did the winner have SEE backfielded with good teams up front eating counters? Like yea....ANY team can be good when the circumstances are set.
As someone that is 11/15 SEE right now it's not really motivating to know I might be getting a dumpster. It also doesn't help that it's constantly said my G12 Traya, scion, nihilus will ALSO need to be R7'ed to make the best of him, when I've spent a lot of time and resourced gearing these garbage can characters to get him, and they won't even synergize with him.
So one of two things is going on. Either SEE really is garbage and JML owners are trying to detract from any kind of attention or everyone that is complaining has zero idea what they're talking about, and the vods are all staged shenanagens. Hmmmmm.
I second... essentially all of this. Wanting proof/details goes both ways, and while I’m worried about my eventual SEE unlock being un-buffed, I can’t fathom that he’s actually as bad as he’s portrayed to be.
He's pretty bad trust me.
He has some uses, he can solo some older teams on offense, but on a GL level, from a scale of 1 to 10, he's like a 1, where Kylo is an 11, JML is a 7, and Rey is a 6.
For a hero? He's not bad. But for a Galactic Legend? Trash.
]SEE with SE is the toughest team and doesn't have too many counters that I'm aware of
This was an easier lineup tbh
Doesn't it kinda say something that squads that struggle against DR will still struggle against DR, with or without SEE? And that SEE with anything else is an easier lineup that can probably be dismissed in most cases? And any sith squad with a good leadership that has to get thrown with SEE loses that leadership.
SEE has a couple niche gimmicks, but overall this doesn't say much for SEE's value.
It's almost an optimal setup: SEE was able to link SLKR before using ultimate special, SEE is able to attack SLKR, and SLKR drops advantage so can be hit with a crit, and doesn't go into ultimate stance. Plus SEE dodges an SLKR attack!
Yet SEE basic--if he crits!--is hitting for a little over 1/5th of SLKR's basic.
True. But it was still a very minor part of what JML was, and look where we are now...
Ok, and if there was a bug with SEE he would have gotten the same treatment.
There is a pretty severe lack of information to really judge on and examine.
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it Come on don't get ridiculous. I continue to find it interesting that ppl here in the forums are raging about how weak GLEE is and how useless he is. I now know 2 ppl in my alliance who have him. One put him on defense in GAC vs an opponent who also had him. He won that battle with GLEE having 1 defend and no other attempts on him (no ultimate, btw). So is the guy in my alliance just brilliant? Or is there some exaggeration going on about his supposed lack of ability?
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
My Maul team got 3 holds last GA. Is he overpowered too?
Replies
Legendary Jar Jar prehaps
Likely. Apparently Mace's rework was put on ice for "GL" Jar Jar.
We can but hope.
Plus why would we buy a new character now just for SEE at this point, after finding out how weak he is an after they made us farm all these horrible dead end characters to unlock him.
Surely that is the opposite of a PR an business strategy. Correct me if im wrong but they usually want to make money by making you unlock the character first so you dont know how good or bad it is, not lose money putting the character out after the bad reviews. That's like trying to put out a garbage fire with, well, more potential garbage :')
I just truly believe they overlooked a lot of things or barely tested it at all an that he just simply to put it, needs a big buff.
I'm saying they have said they are keep9ng an eye on things, and one of the best ways to help highlight what you and other have said, is not just starting hes junk, but yes posting videos and pictures and discussing points.
I can assure you that things will definitely progress slower than I'm sure some would like, when there is not a lot of things like that floating around.
We saw a few videos of counters, but not all of the counters claimed.
There is talk about his power, but not alot of posts showing how modding is not helping this, which it could.
I'm saying that there was a burst of stuff, they said they are looking and some have made great points about what is going on, and anything other than repeating he is junk is all we are seeing. It would be nice to see more supporting material behind that. That is what helps those that champion these causes put some weight behind it.
That’s insane if someone has to invest ALL that in a GL only to need a separate character just for him to be worthwhile.
Instead of using us as Gini pigs, what if! "now here me out here for a second"..
what if..
They test these things themselves and test mods an loadouts and different character comps.
Or better yet, have a test server... OH WAIT they got rid of it.
To add to your explanation, while players tend to enjoy when their toons are buffed, they less enjoy when they're nerfed to say the least. So when they make the decision to buff a character, they can't buff it too much, because nerfing him afterwards will see the pitchforks out. So they take their sweet time (waiting to see more ultimate see in the Wild and collect a good amount of data) to try and make the rightest call possible.
Probably.
It was tested, which is at least part of the reason they do not just jump.at the calls of this new toon is junk/OP/insert other here....
They didnt get rid of it, they started a new program that was announced a while ago.
I agree. Reading the kit when it was announced made him seem decent, if not slightly lackluster.. But the kit sounded workable, albeit detrimental to two of the 3 sith tanks, but workable.
And then we got our hands on him and... well... hes kinda underpowered. Deceive sounded useful... but in practice it doesn't do much. There's no detrimental effect to having deceive on a unit. They act like normal.
Link sounded cool... but it doesn't work on protection up and every single character released recently is based on max health so not many people mod for protection anymore. That and enemy ATTACKERS that are linked and have not only less damage but can't crit... still do more damage then a SEE crit fart attack.
Sow Discord should hit the weakest enemy, not limited to LS... cause as it stands it takes forever for SEE to get his ult.
I used my Ultimate SEE against an Ultimate JML and although I got my ult first.. his ult was much more damaging and he almost 1v4ed my team. SEE won, but barely. (and its not a mod issue, I have my best mods on vs a team with half the power of mods. lot of his guys has blue or green mods)
Kyno can ask for proof all he wants. How about the devs actually use those fancy new tools they put a year into making work to check all the SEE accounts and check all the battles. GAC history is easy to see on their side. Why the heck should we have to do THEIR JOB BETA TESTING FOR THEM.... but in the end we did. And ever SEE user / owner I've talked to, or seen, says he's weak. Hes bad.
I threw him into a treya lead team for DS geo... I felt like he was a waste there. He never even got close to his ult. If he was lead then I'd have to worry about Sion actually dieing instead of using HIS CORE CHARACTER MECHANIC... aka his revive.
I've tried thrawn and wat with him. Makes him worse against JML teams cause those two become ability blocked dead weight and they don't get many of the "decent" sith benefits that another sith would get.
Sid, sassy, maul... all trash with SEE cause they dont do much.
royal guard really needs a rework. They were feared for being the BEST OF THE BEST... yet ours is complete utter garbage.
I've literally tried everything with SEE lead to make him good... and EP, treya, DV would make better leads then him. I've tried him as an ally... id rather have a mixed Empire/sith EP team with tarkin or the new Piet then him.
Under treya... eh? ..EH? wats better for techs.
This was an easier lineup tbh
Lol, so you're basically saying the devs dont test the game at all before they release a new hero?
Not throwing shade at you, but honestly that's what it sounds like. If the devs did any testing they wouldn't need to have the community compile videos for them showing the problem.
But it’s a lot easier to actually do that when you say “Full Geos beat SEE lead, DR, BSF, Marauder, Sith Empire Trooper” and not “Geos beat SEE. SEE bad.”
That's a ridiculous strawman and you know it
If pretty much every team can beat him, as is being suggested, then how is that possible?
lmao.
So....that's pretty weak. SEE on defense with 1 attempt and wont it without SEE going down. The entire circumstance feels like it's missing 90% of the background. Where was the team placed, how did the opponent defend? Did he wall/turtle and left weak teams for Offense? Did the winner have SEE backfielded with good teams up front eating counters? Like yea....ANY team can be good when the circumstances are set.
As someone that is 11/15 SEE right now it's not really motivating to know I might be getting a dumpster. It also doesn't help that it's constantly said my G12 Traya, scion, nihilus will ALSO need to be R7'ed to make the best of him, when I've spent a lot of time and resourced gearing these garbage can characters to get him, and they won't even synergize with him.
So one of two things is going on. Either SEE really is garbage and JML owners are trying to detract from any kind of attention or everyone that is complaining has zero idea what they're talking about, and the vods are all staged shenanagens. Hmmmmm.
I second... essentially all of this. Wanting proof/details goes both ways, and while I’m worried about my eventual SEE unlock being un-buffed, I can’t fathom that he’s actually as bad as he’s portrayed to be.
Yes, SEE is good at prot-draining JML since he's a tank that doesn't die easily, and is a jedi so it's a big drain. And JML probably has some weaknesses of his own compared to the existing GLs. But SLKR is a far better "hides behinds tanks and transforms into a beast" character than SEE is (of course, in addition to all the other great things SLKR does at the start of battle and for his squad).
SEE's major flaws:
Modding will not help much. SEE's mastery is not the best (fine, tactics attacker it is) and his mastery scaling just isn't very good--but what do mastery increases have to do with modding? And SEE's damage multipliers are flat-out bad. If SLKR's basic attacks, for example--even without all his good mastery scaling, multiple sources of CD, guaranteed crits--have triple the multiplier of SEE's post-ultimate basic, then we know that SEE would need levels of offense from modding that don't exist to match SLKR's damage. I assumed, and still assume, that the devs know what they did here, but maybe didn't foresee this result from all of SEE's issues combined. I'm sure they're better at math than I am and understand how ability damage multipliers work, and how SEE's mastery growth works.
Now, most players simply aren't on the forums at all, but if you ask someone like @Shiryu for his modding attempts I'm sure he can provide info. Sure, I always want to see modding of both squads in any tactics video. If what we're really missing here is people not understanding mechanics and needing to see a 14k offense SEE or a 11 offense high-speed SEE losing, then I'm sure we can get some videos showing it doesn't really help (plenty of people have already removed their best offensive mods from SEE since he doesn't put them to great use).
If what we want to see is high protection, or high speed, all of which have been tried by players with good mods and top notch Sith, then maybe that too. But I wouldn't be surprised if SEE players are exhausted from weeks of trying to make SEE good (I don't know if you noticed, but the RNG counter against SLKR that people came up with was EP lead with Vader--hardly a counter relying on SEE or the best Sith counter, rather simply one that includes SEE).
He's pretty bad trust me.
He has some uses, he can solo some older teams on offense, but on a GL level, from a scale of 1 to 10, he's like a 1, where Kylo is an 11, JML is a 7, and Rey is a 6.
For a hero? He's not bad. But for a Galactic Legend? Trash.
SEE has a couple niche gimmicks, but overall this doesn't say much for SEE's value.
It's almost an optimal setup: SEE was able to link SLKR before using ultimate special, SEE is able to attack SLKR, and SLKR drops advantage so can be hit with a crit, and doesn't go into ultimate stance. Plus SEE dodges an SLKR attack!
Yet SEE basic--if he crits!--is hitting for a little over 1/5th of SLKR's basic.
Fairly decent mods (correct me if I'm wrong, but mastery gains have nothing to do with mods).
My Maul team got 3 holds last GA. Is he overpowered too?