A lot of people from my guild are having the same issue, always the same position for all who do The Pit soloing, what is unfair to say the least.
I humbly propose one of these two solutions:
1. Make everyone get 1st reward;
2. Make tiebreaker a random algorithm so that the same player doesn't be rewarded #1 everytime.
I know a guild of misfits that has solved this very easily. They just run a single, Champion toon, in what used to be the 24 no damage period. Then it's zerg. Simplistic in application and effective. Sure, once you find out which toon to run, it becomes who has best so and so, coupled with RNG, and this still beats tying with fifteen people.
I don't like this for a bunch of reasons:
- it forces some people to gear up a toon they wouldn't otherwise gear
- you also need to give them great mods, which is a pain if you switch mods
- people will retreat and try 50 times to get perfect RNG, which creates yet another chore in game to do.
- some dishonest people will run 2 chars instead of 1. Policing that is annoying as hell. (note: we didn't actually have this problem, but it is totally possible)
- people who preload their full clear early will do more damage then those that load it up later (as other people continue to do damage in the 24 hour period)
we tried variants of this to get around the above problems and they stunk. Currently we are just saying 'no full clears allowed'. You have to escape your chars or die before the rancor does. It isn't ideal, but it is less work / seems to work better than the above
Our guild does this, and it works perfectly. We choose a tag (Geo, Clones, etc), and you get one character who can do one attack. You have to screenshot your final result (failure to do so means you can't solo the raid). All attacks take place at least 12 hours before solo time. No real issues so far.
Obviously your points about gearing toons you normally wouldn't, mods, RNG, time, etc are still valid. But this is a good solution to any guild sick of Player ID deciding rank.
The guild I know that does it has no issues and I have to say, if a screenshot is required to prove people aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing, why be associated with that?. I will never again post a screenshot, ever, to prove I did or didn't do something if I say I did or didn't do something.
Champion toon isnt perfect in many situations. The guild I know doing it is a well organized, highly cohesive unit with little drama and surprisingly very little demands are made of the members.
I know a guild of misfits that has solved this very easily. They just run a single, Champion toon, in what used to be the 24 no damage period. Then it's zerg. Simplistic in application and effective. Sure, once you find out which toon to run, it becomes who has best so and so, coupled with RNG, and this still beats tying with fifteen people.
We do this. It works well. If you score over 20K, you post a ****. The player with the lowest non-zero champion score chooses the champion theme for next raid. We've had creative ones so it makes it fun: females only, toons wearing headgear, toons wearing blue, etc. Some players go for highest champion score to place better and some go for lowest champion score to choose next theme.
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Let's tie this to Guild Activities, specifically last completed guild activity. For example, those who helped the guild the most during Cantina energy day, they'd be rewarded by given a raid tiebreaker. This would encourage those to contribute. We'd run into a tie problem with GWs and Challenges, but I know how much you guys like RNG!
Yeah, that would be a good tie-breaker. Have the system track total guild coins earned for the past week and the guild member with the most guild coins earned in that period get first, and so forth down the line to settle tie scores.
This would reward guild members who have participated the most in daily guild activities to help the guild.
I think ties should both get the same reward. This is the way the Olympics resolves it. If they really don't want to do that, then maybe person who used the team with highest attack power wins.
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Let's tie this to Guild Activities, specifically last completed guild activity. For example, those who helped the guild the most during Cantina energy day, they'd be rewarded by given a raid tiebreaker. This would encourage those to contribute. We'd run into a tie problem with GWs and Challenges, but I know how much you guys like RNG!
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Let's tie this to Guild Activities, specifically last completed guild activity. For example, those who helped the guild the most during Cantina energy day, they'd be rewarded by given a raid tiebreaker. This would encourage those to contribute. We'd run into a tie problem with GWs and Challenges, but I know how much you guys like RNG!
You've definitely never been in a whale guild.
Actually, you have an advantage in a whale guild. Especially hard node battles, since they already have all the characters maxed out and don't care as long as they get their 600 energy in.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
The easiest solution is to grant everyone who soloed the raid 1st prize and no EA won't loose anything by doing this
It should be an easy implementation freeing the devs to work on important issues like new content and bugs
No need to over complicate it, it's the Pit and it's only a step stone and not endgame
I'm Danish , Leader of the Space Slug Alliance , living the SlugLife , My collection
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Let's tie this to Guild Activities, specifically last completed guild activity. For example, those who helped the guild the most during Cantina energy day, they'd be rewarded by given a raid tiebreaker. This would encourage those to contribute. We'd run into a tie problem with GWs and Challenges, but I know how much you guys like RNG!
You've definitely never been in a whale guild.
You've definitely not been a good contributor to this discussion. I'm guessing you're the token whiner of your guild or the "hey, look at me (and my guild)" guy.
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Does this mean we get Raid launch options?
So that Leaders and Officers can have options that define: 1. How many squads can be used in each Phase?, 2. Determine which factions can be used on each phase?, 3. Cap dmg for each phase? and lots more!
There is a fix being worked on to ensure tiebreakers are no longer Player ID, but something the Players can control
Does this mean we get Raid launch options?
So that Leaders and Officers can have options that define: 1. How many squads can be used in each Phase?, 2. Determine which factions can be used on each phase?, 3. Cap dmg for each phase? and lots more!
That sounds way too complicated.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Everyone getting first place gets a first place reward makes the most sense. A tie is in fact a tie and should have equal rewards. Otherwise, just random it. My guild has 5 or 6 that can solo. New recruits coming in are expecting top tier rewards for soloing but are getting 5th or 6th. This creates unnecessary tension, lowers the enjoyment factor for everyone,and will cause EA to lose money when players drop off early. This also disengages leaders because we have to micro manage more stuff to ensure fairness for the team. Leaders already have enough on their plates to deal with. Keeping track of a fair rotation or outlawing certain builds to ensure everyone is treated fairly shouldn't be something we have to do when a simple programming change can resolve this. On the programming died topic, fix the daily ticket tracker please! Spreadsheets are a pain when you can just fix that programming issue and save us the trouble!
Oh...and still a fun game. Best in a long time!
@CG_Kozispoon when can we expect the update with regards to a fix for this problem? You keep dropping by, and updates keep getting pushed out, yet nothing. To me it's looking like "August"...
@CG_Kozispoon when can we expect the update with regards to a fix for this problem? You keep dropping by, and updates keep getting pushed out, yet nothing. To me it's looking like "August"...
It seems that Devs doesn't consider this to be a...problem. Anyways, i believe the best way to deal with that would be giving prizes accoring to the player's character lvl. This would be more like a team work instead of a competition within the guild. Everybody would get fair rewards. You deal crap damage but if you are lvl 85 you get the same reward as the other guy which can deal lots of dmg and is also a lvl 85 player
It may seem unfair but it's not, really. Because then, players would be aiming to achieve the same end goal, which is defeat the raid and get his fair reward, regardless of his performance.
So one could think: oh so i can just deal zero damage and wait for others to kill the beast, right? well, if you guild mates actually can do that, then it's alright. Not a good deal though, but you wouldn't want the whole guild failing to do that, would ya? after all, you can just set to auto battle and wait for rewards. Easy, fast, fair.
Now, for the guilds which doesn't have superpowerful teams, this would still apply, because even if you are lvl 60, and if you can do a grade 2 Rancor for example, well you will get appropriate rewards for lvl 60, not lvl 85 gear. I mean, rewards would be player lvl-based, not ranking-based.
However, the players which are the strongest should not carry the weak, otherwise this would be another exploit, you create a guild with one man guild, and the others are just there leveling up and getting gear with the effort of the strong guy. And there's also the problem that the strong guy can kill the rancor before the other players can even hit it, loosing the chance to even get a reward. So things must be carefully reviewed in order o avoid annoyances like that and exploits.
I'd suggest changing the Raid mechanics, so that instead of actually killing the beast or AAT, the guild must achieve some sort of points-based goal, like damage or something like that, making the creature to flee and survive for another battle next day, which would make more sense than killing it over and over. This would eliminate the possibility of killing the beast and letting guildmates out of the reward track, by putting some timer after the goal has been reached, so the other players can go and do their damage.
If even then some players end up doing the same DMG, they would simply get teh same rewards, after all, there's no RANK for the highest dps in this case.
@CG_Kozispoon when can we expect the update with regards to a fix for this problem? You keep dropping by, and updates keep getting pushed out, yet nothing. To me it's looking like "August"...
It seems that Devs doesn't consider this to be a...problem. Anyways, i believe the best way to deal with that would be giving prizes accoring to the player's character lvl. This would be more like a team work instead of a competition within the guild. Everybody would get fair rewards. You deal **** damage but if you are lvl 85 you get the same reward as the other guy which can deal lots of dmg and is also a lvl 85 player
It may seem unfair but it's not, really. Because then, players would be aiming to achieve the same end goal, which is defeat the raid and get his fair reward, regardless of his performance.
So one could think: oh so i can just deal zero damage and wait for others to kill the beast, right? well, if you guild mates actually can do that, then it's alright. Not a good deal though, but you wouldn't want the whole guild failing to do that, would ya? after all, you can just set to auto battle and wait for rewards. Easy, fast, fair.
Now, for the guilds which doesn't have superpowerful teams, this would still apply, because even if you are lvl 60, and if you can do a grade 2 Rancor for example, well you will get appropriate rewards for lvl 60, not lvl 85 gear. I mean, rewards would be player lvl-based, not ranking-based.
However, the players which are the strongest should not carry the weak, otherwise this would be another exploit, you create a guild with one man guild, and the others are just there leveling up and getting gear with the effort of the strong guy. And there's also the problem that the strong guy can kill the rancor before the other players can even hit it, loosing the chance to even get a reward. So things must be carefully reviewed in order o avoid annoyances like that and exploits.
I'd suggest changing the Raid mechanics, so that instead of actually killing the beast or AAT, the guild must achieve some sort of points-based goal, like damage or something like that, making the creature to flee and survive for another battle next day, which would make more sense than killing it over and over. This would eliminate the possibility of killing the beast and letting guildmates out of the reward track, by putting some timer after the goal has been reached, so the other players can go and do their damage.
If even then some players end up doing the same DMG, they would simply get teh same rewards, after all, there's no RANK for the highest dps in this case.
Not a bad idea, but I don't think your argument about a 1 man guild is that much of a problem. Could I join a weak guild, solo the T7 Rancor, and get great rewards? Yes. However, I would be giving up Kenobi shards and next level HAAT rewards.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
This is still an issue, even if Zader is no longer able to solo the Rancor on auto after today's update.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Rancor Raid Ties
This issue has been around for a while and, as the community has made clear through the voluminous and exhaustive threads exploring the topic, it’s a tough nut to crack. We’ve considered a number of potential solutions in studio trying to balance fairness, while also rewarding players that have made significant investment in characters.
At the moment, we are gravitating towards using a randomized tie-breaker solution. At a high level, all players would log their damage and, during the calculation phase of the raid, for those players that had the exact same amount of damage we would randomize their ranking. As an example if CG_TopHat, Not-Really-A-Jedi, and CG_Kozispoon all logged 100 damage, we would randomize who took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place (conveniently, in my example CG_TopHat got 1st place…).
Our hope is that this will be a more equitable way to reward players who ascend to the highest tiers of proficiency within a raid. We’re still stewing on this change though and don’t have a firm date commitment yet. As we make progress on this front, we’ll keep you posted.
I don't know about y'all, but I like this! Thanks @CG_Kozispoon@CG_TopHat and all the other devs!
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Rancor Raid Ties
This issue has been around for a while and, as the community has made clear through the voluminous and exhaustive threads exploring the topic, it’s a tough nut to crack. We’ve considered a number of potential solutions in studio trying to balance fairness, while also rewarding players that have made significant investment in characters.
At the moment, we are gravitating towards using a randomized tie-breaker solution. At a high level, all players would log their damage and, during the calculation phase of the raid, for those players that had the exact same amount of damage we would randomize their ranking. As an example if CG_TopHat, Not-Really-A-Jedi, and CG_Kozispoon all logged 100 damage, we would randomize who took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place (conveniently, in my example CG_TopHat got 1st place…).
Our hope is that this will be a more equitable way to reward players who ascend to the highest tiers of proficiency within a raid. We’re still stewing on this change though and don’t have a firm date commitment yet. As we make progress on this front, we’ll keep you posted.
Not sure why they would gravitate towards a randomized tie-breaker solution when there's already a viable and non-randomized solution in use for ties in Guild Activities.
Not sure why they would gravitate towards a randomized tie-breaker solution when there's already a viable and non-randomized solution in use for ties in Guild Activities.
WEll, then send your suggestions to them! i'm sure they will consider it
I do not know these better tie breakers. Going by time to finish would incourage players to start runs early. If your counting surplus damage that really favours Vader teams....
Would be nice if they flip it for a while, sort highest to lowest player ID instead.
I do not know these better tie breakers. Going by time to finish would incourage players to start runs early. If your counting surplus damage that really favours Vader teams....
Would be nice if they flip it for a while, sort highest to lowest player ID instead.
Neither timing, nor damage would work too well. If EA refuses to give everyone who solos Rank 1 rewards, then randomizing 1st is the next best thing I guess. Otherwise, the 1 toon attack works pretty well.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
Replies
I humbly propose one of these two solutions:
1. Make everyone get 1st reward;
2. Make tiebreaker a random algorithm so that the same player doesn't be rewarded #1 everytime.
The guild I know that does it has no issues and I have to say, if a screenshot is required to prove people aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing, why be associated with that?. I will never again post a screenshot, ever, to prove I did or didn't do something if I say I did or didn't do something.
Champion toon isnt perfect in many situations. The guild I know doing it is a well organized, highly cohesive unit with little drama and surprisingly very little demands are made of the members.
We do this. It works well. If you score over 20K, you post a ****. The player with the lowest non-zero champion score chooses the champion theme for next raid. We've had creative ones so it makes it fun: females only, toons wearing headgear, toons wearing blue, etc. Some players go for highest champion score to place better and some go for lowest champion score to choose next theme.
Yeah, that would be a good tie-breaker. Have the system track total guild coins earned for the past week and the guild member with the most guild coins earned in that period get first, and so forth down the line to settle tie scores.
This would reward guild members who have participated the most in daily guild activities to help the guild.
You've definitely never been in a whale guild.
Actually, you have an advantage in a whale guild. Especially hard node battles, since they already have all the characters maxed out and don't care as long as they get their 600 energy in.
It should be an easy implementation freeing the devs to work on important issues like new content and bugs
No need to over complicate it, it's the Pit and it's only a step stone and not endgame
You've definitely not been a good contributor to this discussion. I'm guessing you're the token whiner of your guild or the "hey, look at me (and my guild)" guy.
Does this mean we get Raid launch options?
So that Leaders and Officers can have options that define: 1. How many squads can be used in each Phase?, 2. Determine which factions can be used on each phase?, 3. Cap dmg for each phase? and lots more!
That sounds way too complicated.
^^^ this!
Oh...and still a fun game. Best in a long time!
It seems that Devs doesn't consider this to be a...problem. Anyways, i believe the best way to deal with that would be giving prizes accoring to the player's character lvl. This would be more like a team work instead of a competition within the guild. Everybody would get fair rewards. You deal crap damage but if you are lvl 85 you get the same reward as the other guy which can deal lots of dmg and is also a lvl 85 player
It may seem unfair but it's not, really. Because then, players would be aiming to achieve the same end goal, which is defeat the raid and get his fair reward, regardless of his performance.
So one could think: oh so i can just deal zero damage and wait for others to kill the beast, right? well, if you guild mates actually can do that, then it's alright. Not a good deal though, but you wouldn't want the whole guild failing to do that, would ya? after all, you can just set to auto battle and wait for rewards. Easy, fast, fair.
Now, for the guilds which doesn't have superpowerful teams, this would still apply, because even if you are lvl 60, and if you can do a grade 2 Rancor for example, well you will get appropriate rewards for lvl 60, not lvl 85 gear. I mean, rewards would be player lvl-based, not ranking-based.
However, the players which are the strongest should not carry the weak, otherwise this would be another exploit, you create a guild with one man guild, and the others are just there leveling up and getting gear with the effort of the strong guy. And there's also the problem that the strong guy can kill the rancor before the other players can even hit it, loosing the chance to even get a reward. So things must be carefully reviewed in order o avoid annoyances like that and exploits.
I'd suggest changing the Raid mechanics, so that instead of actually killing the beast or AAT, the guild must achieve some sort of points-based goal, like damage or something like that, making the creature to flee and survive for another battle next day, which would make more sense than killing it over and over. This would eliminate the possibility of killing the beast and letting guildmates out of the reward track, by putting some timer after the goal has been reached, so the other players can go and do their damage.
If even then some players end up doing the same DMG, they would simply get teh same rewards, after all, there's no RANK for the highest dps in this case.
Not a bad idea, but I don't think your argument about a 1 man guild is that much of a problem. Could I join a weak guild, solo the T7 Rancor, and get great rewards? Yes. However, I would be giving up Kenobi shards and next level HAAT rewards.
This issue has been around for a while and, as the community has made clear through the voluminous and exhaustive threads exploring the topic, it’s a tough nut to crack. We’ve considered a number of potential solutions in studio trying to balance fairness, while also rewarding players that have made significant investment in characters.
At the moment, we are gravitating towards using a randomized tie-breaker solution. At a high level, all players would log their damage and, during the calculation phase of the raid, for those players that had the exact same amount of damage we would randomize their ranking. As an example if CG_TopHat, Not-Really-A-Jedi, and CG_Kozispoon all logged 100 damage, we would randomize who took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place (conveniently, in my example CG_TopHat got 1st place…).
Our hope is that this will be a more equitable way to reward players who ascend to the highest tiers of proficiency within a raid. We’re still stewing on this change though and don’t have a firm date commitment yet. As we make progress on this front, we’ll keep you posted.
I don't know about y'all, but I like this! Thanks @CG_Kozispoon @CG_TopHat and all the other devs!
Not sure why they would gravitate towards a randomized tie-breaker solution when there's already a viable and non-randomized solution in use for ties in Guild Activities.
Would be nice if they flip it for a while, sort highest to lowest player ID instead.
Neither timing, nor damage would work too well. If EA refuses to give everyone who solos Rank 1 rewards, then randomizing 1st is the next best thing I guess. Otherwise, the 1 toon attack works pretty well.